From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V11 #322 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Friday, November 25 2005 Volume 11 : Number 322 Today's Subjects: ----------------- **LAST RACHAEL SAGE NY SHOW OF '05 JUST ADDED!** [SpiritWe@aol.com] Question(s) about "Mrs. Bartolozzi" [Country Mouse ] Interesting MySpace numbers. [Sander ] Re: Interesting MySpace numbers. ["Xenu's Sister" ] Re: Interesting MySpace numbers. [raven@igc.org] Re: Interesting MySpace numbers. [RavFlight@aol.com] Re: Interesting MySpace numbers. [Profjava@aol.com] Myspace = RavFlight may be right. TOS not as bad as I thought [Profjava@a] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 02:51:23 EST From: SpiritWe@aol.com Subject: **LAST RACHAEL SAGE NY SHOW OF '05 JUST ADDED!** HEY Y'ALL & HAPPY THANKSGIVING! We're really excited...a new show has just been added last-minute, courtesy of our friend Josh Cole* who's invited Rachael & Co. to share the bill w/ him Dec. 1st at the fabulous new venue "Mo Pitkin's" in NYC. While we don't wanna cry wolf and can't make any rock-hard promises, this really appears to be Rachael's very last performance of 2005. Please come out & help us celebrate the amazing, memorable year you've all helped create; plus a little birdie told us she'll be unveiling more brand new songs from her forthcoming release "The Blistering Sun" (yep, new title as of this week). *Josh Cole is an up-and-coming rocker from MA who writes equally clever & visceral Dylan-esque material, has an impressive sense of wit and is not so terrible on the eyes (as they say in Yiddish). Please come & support two biblically-named musical adventurers in their fight against evil i.e. the expected. Also - - there will be a sneak preview of our new flavor of Rachael Sage candies at this show...mmm! Details below. xoxoxoxo Rachael & The MPress Holiday Recipes ==== Thursday, December 1 @ MO PITKIN'S - 11pm ...with Josh Cole! for more info call (212) 777-5660 or visit: www.mopitkins.com 34 Avenue A New York, NY * WINNER, 2005 INDEPENDENT MUSIC AWARD (FOLK) * WINNER, 2005 OUTMUSIC AWARD (SONGWRITER) ========================================================== MPress Records | www.rachaelsage.com | www.sonicbids.com/rachaelsage Bookings: sectalentgroup@yahoo.com | www.sectalentgroup.net JOIN OUR STREET TEAM! FOR MORE INFO CONTACT: info@mpressrecords.com ========================================================== "rich vocals, sparkling piano & yearning poetry" - TIME OUT NY "melodies that will break your heart...unforced passion" - ROLLINGSTONE.COM "lovely & literate folk-pop-rock, socially aware & eclectic" - VILLAGE VOICE ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 16:26:30 -0500 From: Country Mouse Subject: Question(s) about "Mrs. Bartolozzi" Why do all the reviewers (that I have seen anyway) think this song is about a charwoman or housecleaner? I get the impression it's a woman alone (who does not want to be alone), who is fairly obsessive about cleaning, but who is desperately missing her man. Did he die? Did he leave? The raw pain in Kate's voice when the woman thinks for a moment that she sees her man at the window but it's only the shirt waving on the line makes me feel he's left in some irrevocable way. Any thoughts? Or did I miss discussion about this? fleur, who loves Sea of Honey but is going to have to give Sky of Honey more time to sink in... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 23:03:21 +0100 From: Sander Subject: Interesting MySpace numbers. First of all, I loathe MySpace with everything that is within me, won't ever be seen on there, and wish that it would die a cruelly painful - yet very swift - death. That said, I know a bit and hear a lot about 'networking' sites like that, and find it all very interesting. In that vein, here's some interesting figures from a band that had frontpage MySpace exposure for a week: * number of times their music was played: around 20,000 * number of MySpace friend requests: 1200 * number of mailing list signups: over 100 * number of CDs sold: ZERO See: http://www.scottandrew.com/blog/archives/2005/11/overexposed.html Cheers, Sander ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 16:16:03 -0800 (PST) From: "Xenu's Sister" Subject: Re: Interesting MySpace numbers. - --- Sander wrote: > First of all, I loathe MySpace with everything > that is within me, won't ever be seen on there, > and wish that it would die a cruelly painful - > yet very swift - death. I'm sure you have your reasons, but I wish you would go there at least once, just once, to read the Comments on Happy's page. Not just the ones on the front page. To do justice to Happy, you have to click on "View All Comments" and read from the beginning, because some of the best ones have fallen off the front page. Anyone who loves Happy will be thrilled by what many of the people say. And most of those people would never have heard of Happy if not for MySpace. Come on, just once. One time. Please. http://www.myspace.com/happyrhodes > That said, I know a bit and hear a lot about 'networking' > sites like that, and find it all very interesting. In that > vein, here's some interesting figures from a band that had > frontpage MySpace exposure for a week: > > * number of times their music was played: around 20,000 > * number of MySpace friend requests: 1200 > * number of mailing list signups: over 100 > * number of CDs sold: ZERO I went to that link, and read the entry, and I notice there's no link to the band in question, and they're not even named in that blog, so a person can't go and listen for themselves. Maybe they're crap, and that's why they haven't sold any CDs. Maybe the 100 who signed up for the mailing list have crap taste in music and they're broke so can't buy the CD. Who knows? Numbers without context are meaningless. Happy's not crap. If she were ever a Featured Artist like that band (which would never happen since Tom from MS has mediocre taste in music), she *WOULD* sell some CDs. She already has just from her little corner of MySpace. I don't know how many, I haven't asked her. I'm just going by the people who say they've bought or will buy CDs. And anyway, I'm not trying to sell Happy's CDs. I'm on there to get exposure for Happy to other musicians, and to find new artists for myself. I say for Ecto too, and even if only one is paying attention (*waves to Dan*) that's good enough for me. I've found dozens of artists that I never would have known about otherwise. Not a day goes by when I don't find someone that I don't say "Wow!" about. If only I had time and writing skills I could pass these people's names on to Ecto. The last time I passed some great names on to Ecto, I don't know if anyone checked them out (did anyone go listen to Ella Blame or Gaslight District?) but I realize it would be nice if I did a featured artist of the day or something. It's just complicated. I don't want to do that on Happy's account because it would be my taste, me talking, but I'm so rarely logged on to my own account, and, understandably, nobody ever looks at that page anyway. I should do it in ecto, but I forget. The majority of the names on Happy's Friends list are musicians/bands/musical artists in some way. Most of the non-musician individuals on Happy's Friends list are people who like Happy, either from here or because they discovered her on MySpace. I don't send individuals add requests. I'm not trying to "collect" Friends for Happy, though I suppose I am trying to "collect" bands. I may be a bit (ok, very) indiscriminate, genre-wise, when it comes to the musicians/bands I request adds from, which makes the list harder to navigate through, but I want a large variety of music on there. And the variety of good music is breathtaking. Izzy Cox, Mew, Nadine, Carla Werner, Daughter Darling, owen grey, edie, Gretel, The Analogues, The Year Zero, Evan Bethany, brunatex, Joe and Ellen, Fin de Siecle, Joanna Newsom, Rebekah Jordan, Hem, Barbara Shaw, Hayley Hutchinson, leni ward, Trespassers William...I could go on and on naming people worth knowing about and listening to, and I'm still only scratching the surface. (to hear any of those go to my list at http://happyrhodes.org/MySpace/index.html and do a Search). No one's hate for MySpace, not even someone I respect, admire and like as much as you Sander, will take away the thrill of musicians discovering Happy and me discovering artists like those just named and so many more. I don't really care about MySpace as a whole, all the cliches and problems people go on about when they, or you, say you hate MySpace, whatever they might be, from the admittedly crappy programming to the people who use backgrounds so garish you can't read the text, to the fact that it's now owned by Rupert Murdoch (oh lord I smell a fiasco coming), or even the annoying adware that I regularly have to clean out of my computer (AdSubtract is my best friend). All those things are worth hating, certainly, but I can overlook them because the good stuff is worth everything to me. The only thing that does worry me is the threat, however unlikely, of MySpace using Happy's music for something without reimbursing Happy. According to the Terms of Service, they can do that, which is why I took Happy's music off MySpace's computers and put them on my own. People have to click through an extra page to hear Happy now. It's a bummer because I don't think as many people are doing that as listened to her when the music started automatically. I'm waiting back to hear from Happy for a final decision on whether to put her music back up. Neither of us noticed that bit from the TOS when we first signed up. It's something I should have caught, but I'm not a lawyer or even a particularly savvy music fan. I just wanted to get her music up and start the ball rolling. Other than that, Happy's in her own little corner of MySpace and it's a comfortable place to be. Magical things happen (to me, and them) when the right people discover her music (right people being people like you, Sander, and me, who understand what it is they're hearing and her music hits them in the right spot at the right time, and they *get it*). Those little bits of magic (seriously, read ALL the Comments) and the feeling I get when I discover and listen to someone like Izzy Cox or edie are worth my time and effort to keep it going as long as possible. Vickie - -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Music, all I hear is music, guaranteed to please... - -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ - -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 16:49:59 -0800 From: raven@igc.org Subject: Re: Interesting MySpace numbers. At 04:16 PM 11/24/2005, Xenu's Sister wrote: >--- Sander wrote: > > > First of all, I loathe MySpace with everything > > that is within me, won't ever be seen on there, > > and wish that it would die a cruelly painful - > > yet very swift - death. > >I'm sure you have your reasons, but I wish you would >go there at least once, just once, to read the Comments >on Happy's page. Not just the ones on the front page. >To do justice to Happy, you have to click on "View All >Comments" and read from the beginning, You must be a MySpace *member* to go beyond anything on the front page... I expect that is unlikely to happen for many people. - -- John ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Nov 2005 20:29:27 EST From: RavFlight@aol.com Subject: Re: Interesting MySpace numbers. I'm not sure how it is possible to hate something as benign as MySpace, especially since it is a free service. I believe in an age when people are becoming more polarized, disconnected, and unable to relate to one another, a service like MySpace is precisely that the doctor ordered. And that is merely a comment on the person to person profiles. The fact that it now allows local musicians a great deal more exposure than ever before is simply another great addition to the service MySpace provides. Sure, there are aspects to dislike about MySpace. The over-programming of certain members that make their pages unreadable or unmanageable. The "fake" models gathering MySpace names for reasons unknown. The online extreme flirtation. The kids posing as adults. But, these are not things that are reserved for MySpace...but have merely transferred onto the forum just as they have multiple other online forums. So, while they are irritants, they cannot be blamed direction on the MySpace website. I would state that I have made a number of new and interesting friends on MySpace (which have translated to 'real-life' friendships, in case that was a coming criticism), but I'd like to put forward an even more potent example based on an organization that I run. I run a newly forming National organization called "The Culture_Shock Project", which is about bridging gaps between people from multiple backgrounds. We function with multiple chartered groups in different regional areas and on universities, and we are still working on cheap and easy ways to start these new groups. We recently started our third-ever group, and our first community group, here in Salem Oregon, and we wanted to shore up and garner some early support. The group came from a University setting, where it is easy and relatively cheap to advertise and start a group, so the idea of paying thousands in advertising simply did not appeal to us. Plus, as we are a somewhat complex group, we wanted to express who we were more directly and in greater detail than a simple poster or newspaper ad would be able to express. So, as you can probably imagine, we decided to try an experiment and start our own MySpace profile. http://www.myspace.com/cultureshocksalemor The results were astounding. We didn't pay a single red-cent to connect with people in Salem, and the numbers of Salem residents with profiles was ASTOUNDING. Thousands of people in the Salem area had profiles, and we were able to get 1400 friends to sign up. Now, as the article you attached suggested, many of those were 'false', as people collect "friends contacts" like skittles. Furthermore, many were underage (and our group for now is only open to those 17 and up) However, even if you think that 50% of the people signed up are not interested at all, and 25% of the remaining are underage, that still leaves a possib le pool of 350 people interested in our group in the area. And, which that number is high, it is not unreasonable. We have actually started our weekly meetings, and we've been able to get massive support for a 'community group' in Salem, Oregon, almost entirely using MySpace. In the last few weeks we have had over a hundred people visit our group...which when you consider that this is, actually, just some 'community group', the likes of which are usually VERY difficult to get people to visit and get involved. So not only were we successful, we did it without spending any money. (Though admittedly, it did take quite a bit of time). In fact, it was so successful, that we're already in the process of doing the same thing with groups in Portland and Mesa, AZ. What I'm saying is that I'm not sure something that seems to carry no agenda, like MySpace, should be hated. Starbucks? Yes. Walmart? Of course. Time-Warner-AOL? (Irony being my e-mail address) Absolutely. But MySpace? Sure there are drawbacks to it, like everything in life, but considering the fact that they offer their service for free, and that a great deal of good can come out of it's use, I think that MySpace should have the same treatment as many things of it's kind. Use it correctly, and you can do great and possibly even wonderful things (make new friends, promote a local band, start an organization, find a new date), and use it incorrectly or rudely, and the deficiency lies on your own shoulders, not MySpace. Am I modifying the NRA motto? Perhaps. MySpace is not stupid. People are stupid. Frankly, that's pretty true. In a message dated 11/24/2005 2:03:45 PM Pacific Standard Time, ecto@juima.org writes: First of all, I loathe MySpace with everything that is within me, won't ever be seen on there, and wish that it would die a cruelly painful - yet very swift - death. That said, I know a bit and hear a lot about 'networking' sites like that, and find it all very interesting. In that vein, here's some interesting figures from a band that had frontpage MySpace exposure for a week: * number of times their music was played: around 20,000 * number of MySpace friend requests: 1200 * number of mailing list signups: over 100 * number of CDs sold: ZERO See: http://www.scottandrew.com/blog/archives/2005/11/overexposed.html Cheers, Sander ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 00:40:23 EST From: Profjava@aol.com Subject: Re: Interesting MySpace numbers. In a message dated 11/24/05 8:56:43 PM, RavFlight@aol.com writes: > > What I'm saying is that I'm not sure something that seems to carry no > agenda, > like MySpace, should be hated. Starbucks? Yes. Walmart? Of course. > How do you know they have no agenda? After reading what Vickie said about the Myspace Terms of Service trying to give themselves copyrights over all content, including text and mp3s, posted there, I find their agenda of slipping that into the TOS to be extremely disturbing. I don't care about the rest of the criticisms I've read. I find the place to be a nice place to use to keep up with other businesses and artists. I do not plan to hang out some place that wants to take control of my content as being their own property they can reproduce at will, however. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 01:10:51 EST From: Profjava@aol.com Subject: Myspace = RavFlight may be right. TOS not as bad as I thought In a message dated 11/24/05 7:18:53 PM, xenussister@yahoo.com writes: > The only thing that does worry me is the threat, however > unlikely, of MySpace using Happy's music for something > without reimbursing Happy. According to the Terms of > Service, they can do that, which is why I took Happy's > music off MySpace's computers and put them on my own. > People have to click through an extra page to hear > Happy now. It's a bummer because I don't think as many > people are doing that as listened to her when the music > started automatically. I'm waiting back to hear from > Happy for a final decision on whether to put her music > back up. Neither of us noticed that bit from the TOS when > we first signed up. It's something I should have caught, > but I'm not a lawyer or even a particularly savvy music > fan. I just wanted to get her music up and start the ball > rolling. > > Oops, I looked at your happy rhodes blog at http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=29481571&blogID=59568363 that pointed to someone else's blog from 2004 at http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=3830568&blogID=5208213 who claimed that myspace's TOS gives them the right to make derivative works. But then I went to the actual TOS at http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/misc/terms.html?z=1&Mytoken=D20B6409-B8D8-4EE5-AE893AEEA90B27E4715764828 and it doesn't even mention the phrase "derivative works." It says you're giving them the license to display the work on the website till you remove it. Here is the pertintent section below: >>>>By posting any Content to the public areas of the Website, you hereby grant to MySpace.com the non-exclusive, fully paid, worldwide license to use, publicly perform and display such Content on the Website. This license will terminate at the time you remove such Content from the Website. You represent and warrant that: (i) you own the Content posted by you on the Website or otherwise have the right to grant the license set forth in this section, and (ii) your Content does not violate the privacy rights, publicity rights, copyright rights, or other intellectual property rights of any person. You agree to pay for all royalties and fees owing any person by reason of any Content you post on the Website.<<< I guess I'll stop worrying so much. That had gotten me a bit nervous reading all that earlier. ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V11 #322 ***************************