From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V11 #266 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Saturday, October 1 2005 Volume 11 : Number 266 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: king of the mountain @ sony music store [DanStark <2005.carnivore99@v] Re: king of the mountain @ sony music store ["Robert Davy" ] kate [anna maria "stjärnell" ] Re: king of the mountain @ sony music store ["Xenu's Sister" ] Re: Hearing King of the Mountain ? [andrew fries ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 02:13:28 -0400 From: DanStark <2005.carnivore99@verizon.net> Subject: Re: king of the mountain @ sony music store >>And, again, how do we get them to distinguish the lack of sales due to >>the DRM from a lack of sales due to people not being interested in the >>music? > >By consistently refusing ALL OF THEM! Don't you think they know perfectly >well they are trying to ram copy protection down our throats against our >wishes? Of course they do, and you can bet they are watching the results >like hawks. Moral issues aside, a high return rate would likely send a much stronger message to the labels than weak sales in the first place. You know they won't make the connection between weak sales and DRM, they'll just drop the artist blaming poor content. Only when enough product gets returned to the stores as "defective" will the message be unmistakable. I think it would have to be a significant percentage to make a positive impact, though. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 16:40:24 +1000 From: "Robert Davy" Subject: Re: king of the mountain @ sony music store For a copy protected disc that I own, I used their supplied media player and recorded direct from the computer sound card output (ie no audio cables needed) into Audacity (free software) then chop up into tracks. Decode the resulting wav files into mp3. Results were very good. It is time consuming but for old timers who remember cassettes, it is not that much of a problem.. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 17:39:00 +1000 From: andrew fries Subject: Re: king of the mountain @ sony music store DanStark wrote: > Moral issues aside, a high return rate would likely send a much stronger > message to the labels than weak sales in the first place. I'd be inclined to agree, but remember - we don't want to upset those store clerks! > You know they won't make the connection between weak sales and DRM, > they'll just drop the artist blaming poor content. But I think they will! If all copy protected CDs sold weakly across the board, they would definitely notice it. Whether they'd officially admit it, it's another matter. But I am convinced they would notice and make the connection, because not only the data is there, but also they are actively looking for it. I am sure they are monitoring public response very carefully - I would, and I never said they were stupid. Just amoral. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:24:43 -0400 (EDT) From: "don't mine me" Subject: Fighting DRM effectively: You can't eat your cake and have it too I don't recommend buying/returning as defective, it has two big problems: 1 - the returns won't be specifically and unambiguously tied to the DRM on the disc. 2 - it's MUCH too slow to be effective. Promotional decisions on the album will be made within the first 2 weeks of release, primary on the basis of first week sale date. It will be months before the returns show up in the accounting system. Instead of looking like a boycott, it will look like a strong first week. I've been writing about DRM for years, and it's always an uphill struggle. In order to fight it effectively, you need to understand that the population of a mailing list like this is not representative. The acronym DRM makes most peoples' eyes glaze over. Can't play a disc in your computer? Most people DON'T CARE. I think the best chance DRM fighters have is to make the movement look much more grassroots than it really is (a la Howard Dean). Right now the best way to do that is via high-profile music blogs, because the promotions folks have figured out that viral marketing/trusted recommendations are more effective than anything else they've got going at the moment. That means that industry folks are keeping a pretty close eye on the blog community. If you get several of the key players to say something like "by the way, the long-awaited new Kate Bush album is going to be DRM-crippled, so you might want to hold off on buying it until EMI can be forced to rethink their decision" you may be able to convince EMI that they're doing some foot-shooting. You want a Google search for "Kate Bush" +King +Mountain to have "DRM" "crippled" and "boycott" in the excerpts of top search results, because you HAVE to get beyond the mode of preaching-to-the-converted. **BUT** EMI *knows* that this is a long-awaited release by an artist whose fans are legendarily obsessive. It's a safe bet that advocates of DRM within EMI are betting the people who would boycott almost any other DRM-crippled release will overlook their principles just because it's *Kate Bush.* So don't cave. Don't buy the record. Because if you compromise your principles once, you'll do it again -- the record company just needs to find the right buttons to push. There's a certain appeal to the guerilla approach: defeat the DRM, rip the music, make it widely and freely available so EMI loses their proverbial shirt. I don't recommend that either. It's illegal in most countries under current statutes, it deprives the artist and others who worked on the album of compensation for their work, and (worst of all) it convinces the record companies that they NEED DRM and that they need to have additional laws crafted to protect their ability to protect their property. Please don't write me back at this address; this is an outgoing-mail-only address, because addresses I use to post to archived mailing lists aren't safe from spammers. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:39:13 -0400 From: gordodo@optonline.net Subject: Re: king of the mountain @ sony music store the biggest problem in looking at such a correlation is that even if one is detected, the more important question is whether there is cause and effect. the murder rate in new york city is strongly correlated to how much ice cream is sold in manhattan - however, the crime doesn't occur because people are hyped up on sugar but rather because of the warmer weather. unfortunately, I think the evil corporation, err, I mean major labels, are too near sighted to figure out the true cause and effect relationship that exists but would rather be mysogonistic and blame the artists themselves for any lack of "market production" or units sold. if someone could come up with a new model where independent artsits could make the music they wanted and there was a forum where such wonderful music could be discovered and listened to and shared, wouldnt the musical world be a better place? - -jason nr The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music PS thanks everyone who contributes :) > > Moral issues aside, a high return rate would likely send a much > stronger message to the labels than weak sales in the first place. > You know they won't make the connection between weak sales and > DRM, > they'll just drop the artist blaming poor content. Only when > enough > product gets returned to the stores as "defective" will the > message > be unmistakable. I think it would have to be a significant > percentage to make a positive impact, though. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 08:53:39 -0500 From: "mrl220" Subject: Hearing King of the Mountain ? Hi: Where can you go to hear the song? I have not been able to figure that out. Thanks, Marty ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at msg.dcwis.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:32:49 -0700 (PDT) From: anna maria "stjärnell" Subject: kate Hi.. a link to a single review of kate.. http://www.musicomh.com/singles5/kate-bush_0905.htm nonsencial lyrics? never heard such nonsense..hah. oh and the song rocks. what else can be expected? anna maria np-psydoll-i psydoll nr-tanith lee-cast a bright shadow __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 10:01:07 -0700 (PDT) From: "Xenu's Sister" Subject: Re: king of the mountain @ sony music store So, what countries DON'T copy-protect their CDs? Maybe I can import. - --- andrew fries wrote: > Bonus points for those who recognise the quote without > Googling : > > "Some of you are going to die - > Martyrs, of course, to the freedom that I shall povide!" I didn't Google (I never use Google anyway) but knew it right away. Since it's from the album after the one in my sig, it would have been embarrasing if I hadn't recognized it. Genesis, "The Knife" from Trespass - -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Music, all I hear is music, guaranteed to please... - -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ - -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:44:48 -0400 From: wojizzle forizzle Subject: noe venable in nyc woo! - ----- Forwarded message from Noe Venable ----- Date: 30 Sep 2005 17:42:45 -0000 Subject: :: NV in NYC & BKLN :: the woods part of when :: To: woj@smoe.org From: Noe Venable Noe Venable in New York Two Shows :: Take yer pick! Noe Venable with Todd Sickafoose! (acoustic bass and piano) Thursday, October 6th at the Rockwood Music Hall 196 Allen Street New York City 212.477.4155 9pm we will play a full set no cover (tip jar) between E. Houston and Stanton take the F and V subway to 2nd ave :: AND AGAIN :: Friday, October 7th at Galapagos 70 N Sixth St Brooklyn, NY (718) 782-5188 8:30pm a shorter set Between Wythe Ave & Kent Ave take the L train to Bedford Ave. Noe's Galapagos performance is part of an evening of music put together by mPress records, the label of our good friend, Rachael Sage. Rachael will be performing as well, along with a number of other artists. The evening begins at 7 PM, Noe and Todd will play at 8:30. :: the woods part of when :: you can take my body all apart and my apple heart it will grow again you can take these words in your lips two hands you can take these words from the woods part of when I've wed the sun and his golden man just to hold some gold in my hungry hand but a silent bride is a death too tight so I left by night for the woods part of when like a groaning chain I have worn beliefs but now link by link I have shattered them for a soldier's soul is a bootless thing since I found my feet in the woods part of when . . . hope that you are well. best, Noe Venable music, lyrics & more at www.noevenable.com - ----- End forwarded message ----- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2005 06:10:05 +1000 From: andrew fries Subject: Re: Hearing King of the Mountain ? mrl220 wrote: > Hi: > > Where can you go to hear the song? I have not been able to figure that out. > this link works at the moment, but better be quick, they tend to disappear: http://s7.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3J3VZNIDE2D6K2788ZBM0YS4Q9 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 08:36:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Neile Graham Subject: Veda availability It's not available for download anywhere that I'm aware of, but Veda's _Return of the Killdeer_ is available on plastic artifact through amazon.co.uk. - --Neile > (I've been listening to MP3s from Audiogalaxy for the longest time, > but finally I ordered her back catalogue from Harmony Ridge. I still > miss "Return of the Kildeer", but I haven't found anyone who accepts > electronic money selling it. I guess I should just bite the bullet > and look into where money orders can be bought.) - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- neile@drizzle.com / neile@sff.net .... http://www.sff.net/people/neile Editor, The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music . http://www.ectoguide.org Workshop Administrator, Clarion West ...... http://www.clarionwest.org ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V11 #266 ***************************