From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V11 #224 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Friday, August 19 2005 Volume 11 : Number 224 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: Nerina Pallot ["Allison Crowe Music Mgmt" ] Re: Nerina Pallot [Sander ] Re: Flash (was Nerina Pallot) ["don't mine me" ] Re: Nerina Pallot (and Fiona Apple) ["Jeffrey Burka" ] Re: Nerina Pallot (and Fiona Apple) [Steve VanDevender ] RE: Two Sides of Louisa John-Krol ["Bill Mazur" ] RE: Nerina Pallot (and Fiona Apple) ["Bill Mazur" ] Anna Coogan & north19 [neal copperman ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 23:29:40 -0700 From: "Allison Crowe Music Mgmt" Subject: RE: Nerina Pallot Major labels, not their artists, make most, if not all, of the material decisions relating to websites. (It's stipulated in standard recording contracts.) So, the design decisions, ie. use of Flash, pop-ups, etc., almost invariably, come not from the artist. Of course, the artist, choosing to play the label/corporate game, cannot be entirely removed from the equation. They're just not on the front line. Of course, this same level of control is evident in areas that are more material, likely to most fans. Such as the song choices on an album, the production etc. etc. - those are also out of the control of the artist. So, an artist such as Ani DiFranco, and those others who consciously choose to have a say in their careers and art and connection with their fans - these folks can make websites that are in accord with such principles. Those that play the corporate game, they're more often just pawns/products. And, as Paul Anka says, "that's just the way it is"! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 00:57:56 -0700 From: raven@igc.org Subject: Re[3]: Nerina Pallot My ISP offers pop-up blocking, my ZoneAlarm firewall allows pop-up blocking, but I usually depend on the pop-up blocking in my Netscape/Mozilla/Firefox browsers, at least most of the time. And I could get nothing from Nerina Pallot's website until I allowed pop-ups in just her site, all other sites still prohibit pop-ups. I've tried all my other browsers, and unless I'm missing something, I could not get any of the other browsers to work and show her site, your system may be different. But there are a *lot* of Nerina Pallot sites, two I've already mentioned: (http://www.geocities.com/nerinapallotrocks/) (http://www.myspace.com/nerinapallot) There are many others... (http://www.angelfire.com/super/benothalfassed/) (http://www.frustratedsuperstar.co.uk/) (http://www.nerinapallot.cjb.net/) (http://nerinapallot.proboards26.com/) (http://only-1nerina.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/index.htm) (http://trulynerinapallot.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/index.jhtml) and one is a YahooGroup (http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/nerinapallotclub/) all these work in a simple IE browser, so they should work in just about any other browser. - -- John ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 02:17:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Ellen Rawson Subject: Kate in advert for NSPCC Has anyone else in the UK seen/heard the NSPCC ad with what I think is Kate's "This Woman's Work" in the background? (I'm still at home on school holidays; teachers in Hampshire return to work in exactly two weeks, and I have the TV on in the background.) Ellen "Literature stops in 1100. After that, it's just books." - -- JRR Tolkien ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 08:31:17 -0500 From: Sander Subject: Re: Nerina Pallot Nadyne Mielke wrote: > I think that there are a few options for what's happening with the > design of such sites: > > 1. They're using a technology that they don't understand fully. They > don't realise that not everyone has a Flash plug-in. They don't > realise that using a lot of Flash makes it hard to access the site if > you're on dial-up. And they forget that just because they have > broadband doesn't mean everyone else does. (I think the latest stats > that I saw said that about 28% of US Internet users are on > broadband.) They don't realise that not everyone is using the latest > update of Internet Explorer (or, for that matter, that anyone is > using anything aside from IE on a Windows box). They have no idea > what a Flash website looks like if you're visually-impaired and using > a screen reader. All this would be really bad. It's the _job_ of a webdesigner to know these things. That's what they're being paid money for. (Always assuming this isn't a fan or the proverbial 13 year old nephew doing it because there isn't (money for) anyone else.) That's not to say it isn't happening (just like the other two scenarios you gave), but this one _deserves_ to be met with really harsh criticism. The message about how to do things right has been going out in force for at least the last 5 years - it's inconceivable that so many people who's job it is to *know* haven't caught up to these things yet. Sander ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 09:53:08 -0400 (EDT) From: "don't mine me" Subject: Re: Flash (was Nerina Pallot) Sue: >> As a web designer, I occasionally worry about the fact that I don't use flash -- like, are my web sites hopelessly stuck in the '90s? I keep thinking that I should take a flash class & finally shell out the $$$ to buy it. So, I appreciate all of the anti-flash sentiment on this list; it convinces me that my instincts are correct, and I should continue to shun it. Plus, it's nice to get comments like "thank you << I'm a web developer, and I build sites for my clients that are enhanced with JavaScript and/or Flash if you have them available, and STILL WORK FINE if you don't. It's really not rocket science, and most of the 'web has figured this out -- sites like washingtonpost.com or amazon have figured out that turning away N% of potential customers is a bad bizness move for any value of "N." It's kinda funny that the entertainment industries -- i.e., the industries that are complaining about how they're hemorrhaging money in the 'net world -- are the last ones to figure out how to use the 'web to best advantage. - -- d. Please don't write me back at this address; this is an outgoing-mail-only address, because addresses I use to post to archived mailing lists aren't safe from spammers. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 15:23:52 +0000 From: rlovejoy@comcast.net Subject: RE: Paul Anka (was Nerina Pallot) Wasn't that Bruce Hornsby??? > And, as Paul Anka says, "that's just the way it is"! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 15:36:26 +0000 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Collected=20Sounds?=" <2345@collectedsounds.com> Subject: Re: Re[3]: Nerina Pallot Hi John wrote: > And I could get nothing from Nerina Pallot's website > until I allowed pop-ups in just her site, all other > sites still prohibit pop-ups. That's truly weird, I use Mozilla Firefox and have pop ups blocked and I have no problem getting to her site. But if you look at the window that comes up (assuming you at least get the bank page) it says, "If you have pop-ups blocked on your browser, please click here" and the link is: http://www.nerinapallot.com/nerina.html Of course, it's still a Flash site, but at least you can get to it. (?) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 09:07:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Todd Pierce Subject: Re: Nerina Pallot (and Fiona Apple) Wow I had no idea I would start such a deluge just by telling folks to check out Nerina's website - and folks finding out it required Flash. One irony here is that some folks were blaming the record company for pushing a certain web design; Nerina had to start her own record company to get her latest album released, so I doubt that is the factor in this case. What irks me is the plethora of formats for music downloads. I recently went to http://fiona-apple.com/ to hear the new version of O Sailor from Extraordinary Machine. I have heard the version of that album floating around the web and think it is brilliant - much better than Fiona's first two albums. Now it's been redone. But could I listen to the file? No - there are RealPlayer and QuickTime versions, but the Windows Media link is grayed out. I use to have those other two players on my PC but took them off , I was tired of emails asking to upgrade to the pay version, and the way RealPlayer seemed to want to run every media file on my PC. Why can't I have a good old fashioned Windows Media playable file? Hmm Todd Pierce Asheville NC Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 12:06:05 -0500 From: "Jeffrey Burka" Subject: Re: Nerina Pallot (and Fiona Apple) todd sez: > But could I listen to the file? No - there are > RealPlayer and QuickTime versions, but the Windows > Media link is grayed out. Uh, no. The "Windows Media link" is a label for the two links to its right -- labelled "lo" and "hi." >Why can't I have a good old fashioned Windows Media playable file? Hmm um, because there's nothing particularly good or old-fashioned about windows media files? The proper question is why can't you have a file in a standard like mp3 that would let you listen to it in whatever player you wanted, on whatever system, including those not supported by Microsoft, Apple, or Real. jeff n.p. _X&Y_, Coldplay ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 11:03:48 -0700 From: Steve VanDevender Subject: Re: Nerina Pallot (and Fiona Apple) Todd Pierce writes: > Why can't I have a good old fashioned > Windows Media playable file? Hmm Perhaps because it's not a cross-platform standard. All the Windows media formats are basically useless to people who aren't running Windows. The only compression formats I think are really reasonable for audio distribution are MP3 and Ogg since they have easily available support on multiple platforms (well, MP3 more so than Ogg). RealAudio, Windows Media, AAC, etc. are platform-locked in various ways. Artists who really want their music to be accessible shouldn't bother wasting their time putting it up in multiple proprietary formats when they could use a single widely supported format like MP3. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 11:38:55 -0700 From: raven@igc.org Subject: Re: Re[3]: Nerina Pallot At 08:36 AM 08/18/2005, Collected Sounds wrote: >John wrote: > > And I could get nothing from Nerina Pallot's website > > until I allowed pop-ups in just her site, all other > > sites still prohibit pop-ups. > >That's truly weird, I use Mozilla Firefox and have pop ups >blocked and I have no problem getting to her site. Something in your settings seems to be allowing pop-ups, at least from this site, I've no idea what it is, though I might know if I could dig through your system (smile). Our different OS's could make a big difference. We often talk about Mac versus Windows versus Linux, but the differences between machines are more varied, even within the same product line. >But if you look at the window that comes up >(assuming you at least get the bank page) it says, >"If you have pop-ups blocked on your browser, please click here" Yes, I get that page on all browsers, but when I click the link I just get another blank page on all browsers, except the one browser that already shows her site perfectly. >Of course, it's still a Flash site And a rather good one as Flash sites go, even on my slow dial-up, I have no problem with her Flash... I think the bigger problem is the pop-ups, there are just too many ways (that have nothing to do with browsers) to avoid the pop-ups, people are trying to block web-based spam. I've had pop-up problems on a few other artist's sites, many only use pop-ups on their opening page, not on other pages (go figure), so I can still get on their site if I go to an inner page. Halley DeVestern's site used to have a pop-up only on her front page, I think her webmaster removed it after we traded polite emails for a couple days. Danya River's EPK site (not her website) used to use pop-ups, I had to remove pop-up blocking from my firewall to see her EPK, then restore blocking. - -- John ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 1:08:22 +0100 From: Subject: Nerina's inaccesible web site Hi Guys, Another one who hates flash monstrosities (although my pet peeve was always Aimee Mann's, particularly round the time of Lost In Space when I think I was just emerging from the dial-up dark ages) Anyway, I've forwarded the most recent digest to Nerina for her to read, just so people know that she's aware. ;) For the record (and I'm far from impartial), I think Nerina's wonderful. Those Suzanne Vega shows were particularly wonderful, as they gave her the chance to play for an appreciative audience on a proper piano - I've seen Nerina no less than 15 times over the past few years, and I always want to go back for more. I prefer her live to on record, as I sometimes think the production gets in the way of the songs. It's interesting to hear the acoustic version of "All Good People" that will be on the B-Side to the new single and compare it to the studio version... she also does an awesome cover of Love Will Tear Us Apart live. Mike - ----------------------------------------- Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 21:59:35 -0700 From: "Bill Mazur" Subject: RE: Two Sides of Louisa John-Krol Craig, Thank you for again mentioning Louisa John-Krol and her new collaborative outings. Next to Happy, Louisa is my favorite artist that I have been introduced to on Ecto. I just got "Ghost Fish", "I Hear The Water Dreaming" and "Love Sessions" in the mail today. I can't wait to get into them. All the best! Bill - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ecto@smoe.org [mailto:owner-ecto@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Craig Gidney Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 11:54 AM To: Ecto; angelicvoices@yahoogroups.com; twilightml@yahoogroups.com Subject: Two Sides of Louisa John-Krol Australian ethereal chanteuse Louisa John-Krol has released two collaborative albums recently that are wildly divergent. Ghost Fish is a collaboration between LJK and the Greek band Daemonia Nymphie. It is a dark rock album, with influences from Siouxsie and King Crimson on display. Louisa contributes her dreamy voice, mandolin and some electric guitar. It's a weird album, with trippy, proggy lyrics. 'I HEAR THE WATER DREAMING' is her collaboration with ambient artist Oophoi. It's ambient music of the lights-out headphone variety. Layers of watery sounds and layers of her voice weave together in unexpectly gorgeous ways. There are lyrics full of fantasical imagery, but these pieces are so rich with sound, you barely notice them. - --Craig Blog: http://www.livejournal.com/users/ethereal_lad - --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 22:02:06 -0700 From: "Bill Mazur" Subject: RE: Nerina Pallot (and Fiona Apple) Jeff, I noticed your n.p.: What do you think of the new Coldplay? I was turned onto "Parachutes" about a year before Coldplay started to become the world renowned pop juggernaut they are today. I feel like they continue to put out excellent music with each new CD. All the best! Bill - -----Original Message----- jeff n.p. _X&Y_, Coldplay ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 23:43:34 -0600 From: neal copperman Subject: Anna Coogan & north19 Anyone know anything about this Seattle-based Americana group? neal np: blue door - adrienne brasell (a pretty good local out of Taos. Sometimes kind of jazzy, sometimes kind of bluesy.) ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V11 #224 ***************************