From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V11 #114 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Tuesday, April 26 2005 Volume 11 : Number 114 Today's Subjects: ----------------- anneli drecker news [wojizzle forizzle ] Re: Years of music [neal copperman ] RE: Years of music ["Bill Adler" ] Re: Years of music [Bowen Simmons ] Re: Years of music [Kjetil Torgrim Homme ] Ecto introductory music [Bowen Simmons ] sarah, tori, and veda returns with the kildeer (was re: possession) ["JoA] Re: find me sampler [Bernie Mojzes ] Re: Yay, more Ectophiles on Indy: brunatex! [Jon Soong ] Re: Years of music [Troy J Shadbolt ] Re: Years of music [Josh Burnett ] Re: Years of music [andrew fries ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 19:02:31 -0400 From: wojizzle forizzle Subject: anneli drecker news - ----- Forwarded message from newsletter@annelidrecker.com ----- To: woj@smoe.org Subject: >>> Streaming From: newsletter@annelidrecker.com Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 01:04:00 +0200 (CEST) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.7 required=0.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 Listen to 4 full lenght songs from Anneli's new album at http://www.annelidrecker.com. "You Don't Have To Change", "Desire", "Stop This" and "Safe Now" are available for streaming. Enjoy! We have also made Anneli's new biography, written by author Torgrim Eggen, avaibale in English and Norwegian. - ----- End forwarded message ----- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 17:15:49 -0600 From: neal copperman Subject: Re: Years of music >As people listen more and grow older, their tastes start to sharpen, >and they actively dislike more and more music, which can include >some of the very accessible music that they once enjoyed. Anyway, >once this starts to happen, listening to the radio becomes more and >more difficult. Between commercials, talk, heavy repetition, and >songs they dislike (the heavy of repetition OF songs they dislike is >a particularly unpleasant combination), radio listening tends to >become something they do in the car to fight boredom, and even then >they flip stations, looking for a song they like (which pretty much >means one they've heard before - it is pretty hard to judge a new >song in the few seconds you give a station while flipping between >them). > >Once cut off from the radio, however, how do people find new music? >Typically they don't, and listen to their cd's instead, but >repetition gradually kills the interest in those, and at the end >what you have are people who don't much like music (although >actually, and this is a critical distinction, what you have are >people THINK they don't much like music - their real potential on >this subject is completely unknown - and on this I speak from >personal experience). I agree with most of your thoughts except for the role of an old CD collection and the radio for stagnant music listeners. Outside of my circle of friends who actively listen to music, the other people I know are perfectly happy listening to the radio and listening to the old CD's that they have had forever. Some exclusively listen to classic rock stations that play a comfortable mix of all familiar songs (many that probably mirror the CD's they play at home). Others might go so far as to listen to a modern rock station that is a clear lineage of what they have liked in the past, and buy a few CD's a year of whatever gets played a lot. And I think that is actually a fairly representative sample of adult listening. Though somewhere in between are people who listen to NPR and buy a half dozen or so albums a year based on profiles they hear. What I find interesting is that it really isn't that hard to wake up the stagnant music fan. You might not rekindle the love of the music from their formative years (and I don't know that I can be impacted in quite the same way myself!), but you can introduce them to new music. I have regularly seen it happen at our house concert series, where people came out of curiosity and left with CD's. These are people who didn't have the initiative to seek out new music, but are receptive to it when it is put in front of them. I think that is pretty common too. Of course, I self select the people around me, so that most of them are music fans :) (Though I have one friend who literally has ZERO interest in music. He cannot tell what is currently playing on the radio in his car and appears to own no music at all. He thinks of music as either pleasant or annoying, and appears to draw no finer distinctions.) neal ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:17:46 -0400 From: "Bill Adler" Subject: RE: Years of music With that in mind, I've substituted the traditional bottle of wine with a CD as a dinner gift when we visit friends. It's a good way to introduce friends to new (Ectoish) music. - --Bill n.p. Marina V, "Lift" - ------------------ What I find interesting is that it really isn't that hard to wake up the stagnant music fan. You might not rekindle the love of the music from their formative years (and I don't know that I can be impacted in quite the same way myself!), but you can introduce them to new music. I have regularly seen it happen at our house concert series, where people came out of curiosity and left with CD's. These are people who didn't have the initiative to seek out new music, but are receptive to it when it is put in front of them. I think that is pretty common too. neal ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 18:22:09 -0700 From: Bowen Simmons Subject: Re: Years of music On Apr 25, 2005, at 4:15 PM, neal copperman wrote: > Outside of my circle of friends who actively listen to music, the > other people I know are perfectly happy listening to the radio and > listening to the old CD's that they have had forever. That depends on what you mean by happy. Do they ever just listen to music on the radio, or do they only do it as background noise while doing something else (most obviously driving)? How many hours a week do they listen to those old CD's and how do they listen? Do they listen only when doing something else or do they ever focus on listening? Back in the day, I listened to the radio while doing other things and I listened to records that I'd had for years. If I was happy (or unhappy) it had nothing to do with music one way or the other. Happiness in my case was really a variety of indifference. If you were to ask me if I was happy with the shingles on the roof of my house, I might say yes, but that would indicate only that they weren't a problem for me rather than that I had any emotional connection with them. In those days, my emotional connection with music was about on a par with that. It is of course possible that the people we're discussing do have some emotional attachment to their music which has survived the passage of time; maybe they do sometimes just listen the music to enjoy it as a primary experience and seek to shut out distractions. If that is how they are with it, then they are definitely in a different state than I was, and in thinking otherwise I've just been projecting my own past onto them, which is always a risk when trying to understand this sort of thing. Bowen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 03:20:31 +0200 From: Kjetil Torgrim Homme Subject: Re: Years of music [Bowen Simmons]: > > 1986-1990: 2965 songs, 185 artists > 1991-1995: 3111 songs, 166 artists > 1996-2000: 2338 songs, 134 artists > 2001-2005: 1359 songs, 94 artists I had a similar realisation the other day when my "new" jukebox of music (gnump3d) could enumerate my collection (still only a third ripped) by year, and 1995 stood out. my top 5 years by album: 32 1993 33 1992 38 1994 49 1996 67 1995 (this is skewed by me going mostly alphabetical, so my heroes Tori Amos, Bel Canto, Biosphere, Bjvrk, Kate Bush etc. are all represented heavily here.) there are a couple of reasons for this. the most important is that I at that point in time had gotten a job and the means necessary to buy the records. the second was that I was a regular at the music shop, always grabbing the latest arrivals and going to the listening booth to check them out. invariably I would bring a good portion of those albums home. these days I feel really alienated by the music shops. I simply will not go to the biggest shop in Norway (Platekompaniet) anymore since their personel consistently will question my judgement when I refuse to reject records not conforming to the Compact Disc specifications. having that discussion may be interesting once or twice, but it gets tiring after that. I now resort to word-of-mouth and the music stores on the Internet. I don't think the music made today is any worse than that of earlier years, but the music business has done its best to drive me away. it's frustrating to witness. fortunately the smaller record companies seem to be getting it. - -- Kjetil T. (np. Touchwood: Heavy metal (Czech techno at its finest)) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 19:00:57 -0700 From: Bowen Simmons Subject: Ecto introductory music > I've substituted the traditional bottle of wine with a CD > as a dinner gift when we visit friends. It's a good way to introduce > friends to new (Ectoish) music. Now that sets up an interesting question. What are good CD's to try to awaken people's dormant ecto by? Obviously if there is no dormant ecto, the attempt is doomed; but if there is, what would be good CD's to bring it to life? Bowen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:01:57 -0400 From: "JoAnn Whetsell" Subject: sarah, tori, and veda returns with the kildeer (was re: possession) FTE is also, IMO, Sarah's best album as well as my favorite. Though Solace is a close 2nd. I enjoy Surfacing, but I think the material is weaker. The new Afterglow Live cd/dvd is really good too, though FTE is less represented on the cd than on the dvd. Tori's a little more difficult because her albums are all so different. I think Scarlet's Walk may be her most accomplished work, and it's certainly one of the ones I listen to most. Little Earthquakes is an excellent album in a different way and the sentimental favorite. Speaking of singer-pianists, let me be the first to say that Veda Hille's new Return of the Kildeer is the first essential album of the year. I think of it as modern art songs, in many cases sonic miniatures, wonderfully rendered both on disc and at the cd release show. It's quite different from her previous work, though there are moments that seem to stretch back to Spine or even Path of a Body. You can definitely hear the musical theater influence, and not just because 2 of the songs are from musicals. She plays with voices more, letting others sing the lead sometimes. These are preliminary thoughts which I'm sure will become more focused with repeated listenings. And repeated listenings there surely will be! JoAnn >From: "JC Kammerzell" >To: >Subject: RE: Possession (was Grossly Mis-Used Songs) >Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:44:01 -0700 > >This has been an interesting discussion in our midst... > >Am I alone in finding FTE to be Sarah's best album? I've tried several of >the others, and keep coming back to that one as my favorite. Same with >Tori's Little Earthquakes. > >I remember once putting together a music CD and only putting my favorite >songs from FTE on it, leaving out the other half, and remember listening to >it later, realizing that even with the songs I did not care for, the >phrasing and rhythm of the original album, worked better as a whole. > >One point on these both - these were kind of the "premiere" or "famous >making" albums for them both. > >I recently heard two authors interviewed on Air America (Al Franken's new >liberal radio station) about a book they had written, discussing how >brilliant the counter culture consumer market was designed, for as soon as a >new indie artist crested, they became "uncool" to the indie fans, who then >went looking for new artists, to enjoy until they became famous, only to >abandon them at that point. > >I've wondered at my own hypocrisy in that. > >Julie Christina aka Bubba > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-ecto@smoe.org [mailto:owner-ecto@smoe.org]On Behalf Of >Bernie Mojzes >Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 12:21 PM >To: Greg Bossert >Cc: ecto@smoe.org >Subject: Re: Possession (was Grossly Mis-Used Songs) > > >On Mon, 25 Apr 2005, Greg Bossert wrote: > > etc. etc. that may not be a coincidence -- it's not a big leap from > > stalker to fiend... > >it's an even smaller step between the patient and dedicated lover who >perseveres against all obstacles to finally win her or his one true love's >heart (you know, the eternal protagonist of liturature, film and art) and >the stalker. > >i think the most brilliant thing about this song is how closely she brings >these two characters into focus, showing how from the stalker's >perspective *he* is the protagonist who will one day win his true love's >heart. all the things that make the heroic lover admirable - his dogged >persistence against all obstacles, his dedication, patience, and his >all-consuming love - are the exact same things that make the stalker a >fiend. > > >-- > >brni > >i don't want the world, >i just want your half. > >www.livejournal.com/~brni ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:32:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Bernie Mojzes Subject: Re: find me sampler hello again, just a note, this disk has been snatched up. brni On Mon, 25 Apr 2005, Bernie Mojzes wrote: > hello all, > > due to some confusion, it turns out that i have one last copy of the > sampler for distribution. > > drop me a note if'n you want an official hard copy. > > > > - -- brni i don't want the world, i just want your half. www.livejournal.com/~brni ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 11:57:47 +0930 From: Jon Soong Subject: Re: Yay, more Ectophiles on Indy: brunatex! Hey Vickie, Thanks for that :) I saw indy.tv post last week and thought I'd add a couple of songs, i'm so glad it worked ! We're currently finishing off our second album so will hopefully have some new tracks up soon! Cheers Jon Xenu's Sister wrote: > --- Xenu's Sister wrote: > >>I heard Lonely Highway and Sparr from Stars & Splinters. >>Of course I rated both songs 5 stars :) > > > In case you're keeping track Jonathan, I heard Sparr > first, then Lonely Highway. > > Ooh, Feed the Fire is playing now! > > Vickie > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > - -- ************************************************** Jonathan Soong Institute of Medical and Veterinary Science Information, Communication and Technology Services www.imvs.org Ph: +61 8 8222 3095 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 20:46:48 -0700 From: Nadyne Mielke Subject: Re: Years of music On 25 Apr 2005, at 18:17, Bill Adler wrote: > With that in mind, I've substituted the traditional bottle of wine > with a CD > as a dinner gift when we visit friends. It's a good way to introduce > friends to new (Ectoish) music. That's an interesting idea. I really like it. Have you had any particular problems in implementing it? /nm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 21:35:18 -0700 From: Troy J Shadbolt Subject: Re: Years of music my collection is in a MySQL database, so I ran a query of CDs. 1984 and earlier: 17 1985 - 1989: 54 1990 - 1994: 69 1995 - 1999: 55 2000 - current: 67 year of highest CD issues: 1) 2000: 21 issues 2) 2001: 19 issues 3) 1990 & 1998 : 17 issues The most amusing statistic: 84% of total collection ripped into iTunes and my 40Gb iPod [yet only taking up 25% of the iPod]. There are some iTunes singles downloads and other digital-only songs not accounted for in the inventory, but if I have all of the songs from a CD, I add it to my inventory. Of course, my total CD collection probably doesn't account for the pile on the kitchen counter at meth & woj's house . I readily admit that I don't have much prior to 1984 because of the long term damage from 70's AM radio and disco. The oldest issue in my collection is actually the Mason William's Phonograph Record from 1968 which I heard so often as a child that I still react strangely to the CD when it doesn't skip or screech like the old worn-out vinyl we had. Sorry, never liked the Beatles. [Bowen Simmons]: 1986-1990: 2965 songs, 185 artists 1991-1995: 3111 songs, 166 artists 1996-2000: 2338 songs, 134 artists 2001-2005: 1359 songs, 94 artists [Kjetil Torgrim]: 32 1993 33 1992 38 1994 49 1996 67 1995 - --- troy j shadbolt www.voyuz.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 23:56:32 -0500 From: Josh Burnett Subject: Re: Years of music I was actually just counting my CDs by year a few days ago. My results are probably not surprising, given I was born in 1980 - I have a lot more CDs from after that year than before. I have: 1960s: 8 1970s: 3 1980s: 20 1990s: 118 2000s: 55 The years I have the most from are 1995 & 1998 (21), and 1994 & 2000 (14). Only two so far from 2005 (Emm Gryner and Magdalen Hsu-Li), but there's the new Aimee Mann album coming out next week... josh. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 15:11:21 +1000 From: andrew fries Subject: Re: Years of music Bowen Simmons wrote: > Between commercials, talk, heavy repetition, and songs they dislike > (the heavy of repetition OF songs they dislike is a particularly > unpleasant combination), radio listening tends to become something > they do in the car to fight boredom, and even then they flip > stations, looking for a song they like (which pretty much means one > they've heard before - it is pretty hard to judge a new song in the > few seconds you give a station while flipping between them). I can certainly agree with that - it's been years and years since I owned a radio in the house. I have one in my car, and that is the only time I listen in. And my word, I do flip between stations a lot! Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately, from the road safety point of view) Sydney has only three stations of any interest: JJJ, 2SER and FBi. JJJ is an arm of ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corporation), the other two are community stations. In fact, I find myself increasingly annoyed with JJJ, preferring the other two and the reason for that is simple: playlists! JJJ is more like commercial stations in that their DJs are limited to the official playlist. The other two are free for all, and that's what I appreciate about them the most! I appreciate it in theory at least - in practice they all play a lot of what I consider utter crap, hence constant switching... > > Once cut off from the radio, however, how do people find new music? Without much access to the radio I relied on street press, live gigs, and internet. I think it worked out OK; in fact, much better than the radio alone ever would! > Typically they don't, and listen to their cd's instead, but > repetition gradually kills the interest in those I've experienced that too, but I escaped! In the early nineties I was REALLY bored with my vinyl collection. It was also the time when CDs became *it*. So I took a drastic step of throwing all my vinyl out (well, selling it for a fraction of its value), along with a solemn promise to myself: I shall not, ever, try to duplicate my old vinyl on CDs! Instead, I went out to get me some new music - the first two CDs I bought, pretty much at random, were two unknowns: Tori Amos and Throwing Muses... and it all took off from there. And you know what? I can honestly say I've never felt any temptation to go back and re-acquire my old collection in the CD format! I think it is starting to happen again, though... I know I listen to less and less music, and I can no longer be bothered to go to the gigs. While there are various excuses, I think the bottom line is that my interest in waning again... I escaped once and I don't know if I can do it again. Well, perhaps once was enough, that's already more than most people manage. > > What's more, I don't think that the music fan in the sense that the > people in this list mean it, are people that the music industry wants > to produce, even though they individually buy huge quantities of > music a year. What the music industry wants isn't one person who will > buy a hundred different albums, what it wants are one hundred people > who will buy the same album. That is so true! I have long maintained the reason RIAA guns for internet is not any loss of profits due to file sharing (which has been clearly shown to be a red herring - music industry has seen growth in every single year since Napster came online), but the potential loss of control. It is not enough for them to sell shitloads of records; their business model demands they must also be records of their choosing. > Who knows, the rising generation may produce many more real music > fans than the one before and maybe the whole rotten music industry > system will come tumbling down. Not if RIAA has any say in it... but let's hope, indeed. What's more, let's do what we can! ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V11 #114 ***************************