From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V11 #100 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Wednesday, April 13 2005 Volume 11 : Number 100 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Instant Live ( was Re: new Kristin Hersh live disc) [Doug ] Re: Instant Live ( was Re: new Kristin Hersh live disc) [Nadyne Mielke ] Re: Instant Live ( was Re: new Kristin Hersh live disc) [Bernie Mojzes ] Who owns the ideas? [Amanda Williams ] Re: Instant Live ( was Re: new Kristin Hersh live disc) [Hooplessly Unfro] Re: an audiotest [Ethan Straffin ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:56:48 -0500 From: Doug Subject: Re: Instant Live ( was Re: new Kristin Hersh live disc) No one can own a concept. If a band wants to record their concerts on audio cassette and sell them after the show, there's nothing CC can say about it. Likewise, if the band wants to record their show onto disc and sell it immediately, CC can only bitch, they can't stop it. CC *can* stop them from using the technology that CC owns, but their tech isn't the only tech. - --Doug On Apr 11, 2005 11:44 PM, John Higdon wrote: > The gist of the articles is that Instant Live is owned by behemoth Clear > Channel. Clear Channel "bought the patent from the technology's inventors > and now claims to own the exclusive right to sell concert CDs after > shows". ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:20:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Bernie Mojzes Subject: Re: Instant Live ( was Re: new Kristin Hersh live disc) the question is this: who can afford to pay lawyers longer, kristin hersh or clear channel? whoever has the deepest pockets wins. brni On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, Doug wrote: > No one can own a concept. If a band wants to record their concerts on > audio cassette and sell them after the show, there's nothing CC can > say about it. Likewise, if the band wants to record their show onto > disc and sell it immediately, CC can only bitch, they can't stop it. > CC *can* stop them from using the technology that CC owns, but their > tech isn't the only tech. > > --Doug > > On Apr 11, 2005 11:44 PM, John Higdon wrote: > > The gist of the articles is that Instant Live is owned by behemoth Clear > > Channel. Clear Channel "bought the patent from the technology's inventors > > and now claims to own the exclusive right to sell concert CDs after > > shows". > - -- brni i don't want the world, i just want your half. www.livejournal.com/~brni ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:19:24 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Fwd: Letter from Vic Heyman Because everyone even peripherally in the folk music community needs to see this: >< >I am proud of the folk community, fans and performers and associated >businesses alike. The way it has responded to the final wish of Rachel >Bissex is nothing short of marvelous. Now I would like each of you to go >to www.rachelbissex.org and pre-order a Tribute Album. The official >release date is July 21. Let me give you some background. > >Rachel Bissex left us on February 20, 2005, a victim of breast cancer. Her >friends from all over the US were devastated that this loving and so >lovable artist could be taken so quickly after giving herself the maximum >chance to survive. Shortly before she died I asked her what I could do for >her. The one thing she was concerned about was getting her children, >Emma and >Matt, through college. I said that I would do everything in my power to >enable them to graduate. > >Hundreds of contributions came in after her passing, an amazing display of >affection but not large enough for one child much less two. Many performers >and Micah Solomon of Oasis asked what they could do to fulfill Rachel's >wish. >I formed a steering committee to bring about a Tribute album to perpetuate >Rachel's music and cover the kids > >Tom Prasada Rao is serving unpaid as producer. The many performers are >recording Rachel's songs at their personal expense----Dar Williams, Catie >Curtis, Ruthie Foster, Tracy Grammer, Jennifer Kimball, Greg Greenway. The >Kennedys, and Tret Fure among others. > >Even more remarkable, Oasis is donating the manufacturing, Airshow the >mastering, CD Baby isn't taking any cut on distribution, Hostbaby no cut on >hosting, and Ellen Bukstel's Design Workshop Group, Inc. the >designing. Moreover SONiA (from disappear fear) created an original >painting to which Ellen Bukstel married Rachel's lyrics to form a >commemorative poster. The first 100 pre-release on-line sales will receive >one of these posters. > >By buying this CD you are helping to make a dream come true. When the >initial run of 2000 are sold, our pledge to Rachel will be honored. For >$15 you get >a classy CD and assure Rachel's kids the college education Rachel wanted for >them. That is Win-Win bigtime. > >Now please go to www.rachelbissex.org and pre-order a copy of Remembering >Rachel--The Songs of Rachel Bissex. > >Warm regards > >Vic >===================== >Rachel Bissex CD Committee: >Victor Heyman >Tom Prasada Rao >Cary Cooper >Diane Zeigler >Michael Bowers >Ellen Bukstel >Mary Trerice >Micah Solomon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:46:41 -0700 From: Nadyne Mielke Subject: Re: Instant Live ( was Re: new Kristin Hersh live disc) At 06:56 AM 4/12/2005, Doug wrote: >No one can own a concept. If a band wants to record their concerts on >audio cassette and sell them after the show, there's nothing CC can >say about it. Likewise, if the band wants to record their show onto >disc and sell it immediately, CC can only bitch, they can't stop it. >CC *can* stop them from using the technology that CC owns, but their >tech isn't the only tech. While in theory that's true, if CC can get a judge on their side and order a band to stop offering up recordings until the case is resolved, then CC does get to say something about it. If the case isn't resolved in CC's favour, then I can't believe that they're not going to appeal the case as long as they can. So the question then becomes, who can afford good lawyers for longer? Some group of musicians, or a big corporate monolith? /nm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:41:38 -0700 From: Nadyne Mielke Subject: Re: new Kristin Hersh live disc At 07:39 PM 4/11/2005, meredith wrote: >/nm responded: >>Depends on the artist. If a taper-friendly band like the Dead or Dave >>Matthews were to allow Instant Live, I'd guess that the resulting CDs >>would be almost indistinguishable from a good audience bootleg. For an >>artist where one has to sneak in their recording equipment, and thus >>can't use the really good gear, there probably is a difference. >I thought the "instant live" things are soundboard recordings, mixed down >on the fly? If that's indeed the case, then one would expect them to be >better than audience recordings. They are soundboard recordings. However, when you're talking about a band like DMB that allows taping with whatever equipment you've got, a good audience recording is virtually indistinguishable from a soundboard recording. Remember that some tapers are running equipment that's worth several thousand dollars. Further, their mics are on stands, which means that they're not getting audience noise in the same way that someone who's running stealth mics is. If you're not listening to the recording on the very best equipment, you probably can't tell the difference. /nm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:05:17 -0600 From: John Higdon Subject: Re: Instant Live ( was Re: new Kristin Hersh live disc) At 07:56 AM 4/12/2005, Doug wrote: >No one can own a concept. If a band wants to record their concerts on >audio cassette and sell them after the show, there's nothing CC can >say about it. Likewise, if the band wants to record their show onto >disc and sell it immediately, CC can only bitch, they can't stop it. >CC *can* stop them from using the technology that CC owns, but their >tech isn't the only tech. I would agree that nobody _should_ own a concept. However, corporate America would disagree. I don't have any links this time, but I've read and heard many reports over the past couple years about abuses of the patent system. Corporations are increasingly applying for (and, unfortunately, often receiving) patents for concepts. And they're using the court systems to defend their patents, to keep competitors from using these concepts. For example, I think it's Amazon that has the one-click buy option. Whoever it is, they forced other online operations to change their sites to two-or-more clicks, 'cause they convinced judges that they owned the concept of one-click buying. (A quick search brings up this page about the controversy: http://www.oreilly.com/news/patent_archive.html.) It's a travesty, but it's happening. On a related note, I'd like to plug a book that I've been reading, entitled "Unequal Protection: the Rise of Corporate Dominance and the Theft of Human Rights" by Thom Hartmann, about how corporations used the Fourteenth Amendment to have themselves proclaimed "persons" (rather than "artificial persons") with the same rights as natural born humans, and then used these rights to take over America and the world. John Higdon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:30:38 -0500 From: Doug Subject: Sources for buying CDs I'm considering buying one of Kay Hanley's CDs, but I can't decide from where to buy it. I can get it from Kay's website, but I can get it for $2.15 less from Newburycomics.com. On the one hand Kay might pocket a little bit more if I get it from her site, but that philosophy tends to leave retailers with more product on their hands, which might discourage them from distributing Kay's music. Of course I'm only one person, but large numbers of people following the same ordering philosophy would be something else entirely, so it follows that philosophy is important. What do you think? - -- Doug "Instructions are for people who don't know what they are doing" - Bob the Builder ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:53:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Bernie Mojzes Subject: Re: Instant Live ( was Re: new Kristin Hersh live disc) you want links? here's one that says that British Telecom owns the patent on the "hyperlink," and that anything that uses hyperlinks (including this email) must enter into a liscensing agreement with BT: http://www.cptech.org/ip/business/hyperlink.html bernie On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, John Higdon wrote: > At 07:56 AM 4/12/2005, Doug wrote: > >No one can own a concept. If a band wants to record their concerts on > >audio cassette and sell them after the show, there's nothing CC can > >say about it. Likewise, if the band wants to record their show onto > >disc and sell it immediately, CC can only bitch, they can't stop it. > >CC *can* stop them from using the technology that CC owns, but their > >tech isn't the only tech. > > I would agree that nobody _should_ own a concept. However, corporate > America would disagree. I don't have any links this time, but I've read > and heard many reports over the past couple years about abuses of the > patent system. Corporations are increasingly applying for (and, > unfortunately, often receiving) patents for concepts. And they're using > the court systems to defend their patents, to keep competitors from using > these concepts. For example, I think it's Amazon that has the one-click > buy option. Whoever it is, they forced other online operations to change > their sites to two-or-more clicks, 'cause they convinced judges that they > owned the concept of one-click buying. (A quick search brings up this page > about the > controversy: http://www.oreilly.com/news/patent_archive.html.) It's a > travesty, but it's happening. > > On a related note, I'd like to plug a book that I've been reading, entitled > "Unequal Protection: the Rise of Corporate Dominance and the Theft of > Human Rights" by Thom Hartmann, about how corporations used the Fourteenth > Amendment to have themselves proclaimed "persons" (rather than "artificial > persons") with the same rights as natural born humans, and then used these > rights to take over America and the world. > > > > > John Higdon > - -- brni i don't want the world, i just want your half. www.livejournal.com/~brni ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:00:03 -0600 From: John Higdon Subject: Re: Instant Live ( was Re: new Kristin Hersh live disc) At 11:53 AM 4/12/2005, you wrote: >you want links? here's one that says that British Telecom owns the patent >on the "hyperlink," and that anything that uses hyperlinks (including this >email) must enter into a liscensing agreement with BT: > >http://www.cptech.org/ip/business/hyperlink.html > >bernie Oh yeah, I seem to recall that one from several years back. Which brings to mind another aspect of the recent patent problems: companies are often patenting concepts that they did not themselves develop. But it's considered legal so long as the concept wasn't previously patented, doesn't infringe on another's patent rights. This is part of the reason that it's happening: corporations are racing to patent concepts that are already out there, partly to squeeze out competitors, and partly for fear that a competitor will get there first and thus squeeze them out. John Higdon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:44:11 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: Instant Live ( was Re: new Kristin Hersh live disc) I hereby announce that my corporation, MethWidgets Inc., is patenting the concept of typing the letter 'y'. Herewith all instances of typing the letter 'y' will require a license granted by MethWidgets, Inc., or else my army of attorneys *will* send you a cease-and-desist for patent infringement. Thank you, y'all, and have a groovy day. =============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth =============================================== hear at the HOMe House Concert Series http://hom.smoe.org =============================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:30:15 -0600 From: John Higdon Subject: Re: Instant Live ( was Re: new Kristin Hersh live disc) At 12:44 PM 4/12/2005, Meredith wrote: >I hereby announce that my corporation, MethWidgets Inc., is patenting the >concept of typing the letter 'y'. Herewith all instances of typing the >letter 'y' will require a license granted by MethWidgets, Inc., or else my >army of attorneys *will* send you a cease-and-desist for patent infringement. > >Thank you, y'all, and have a groovy day. I hereby patent the concept of breathing. So, pay up folks! ;^) John Higdon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:46:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Bernie Mojzes Subject: Re: Instant Live ( was Re: new Kristin Hersh live disc) I hereby and forthwith dispute this patent. I claim prior art, and can produce evidence of such, produced by me not only before the incorporation of MethWidgets and it's predecessor entities, but also before you were born. so there. yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy :-p brni On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, meredith wrote: > I hereby announce that my corporation, MethWidgets Inc., is patenting the > concept of typing the letter 'y'. Herewith all instances of typing the > letter 'y' will require a license granted by MethWidgets, Inc., or else my > army of attorneys *will* send you a cease-and-desist for patent infringement. > > Thank you, y'all, and have a groovy day. > > > =============================================== > Meredith Tarr > New Haven, CT USA > mailto:meth@smoe.org > http://www.smoe.org/meth > =============================================== > hear at the HOMe House Concert Series > http://hom.smoe.org > =============================================== > - -- brni i don't want the world, i just want your half. www.livejournal.com/~brni ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:40:43 -0500 From: "Green, Patrick" Subject: RE: Instant Live ( was Re: new Kristin Hersh live disc) Too late. The concept of patenting concepts was patented to concepts, inc., a division of patentco, in early 1998. (this statement contains no letters between x and z) Patrick S Green ~Targetbase~ 972.506.3730 - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ecto@smoe.org on behalf of John Higdon Sent: Tue 4/12/2005 2:30 PM To: ecto@smoe.org Subject: Re: Instant Live ( was Re: new Kristin Hersh live disc) At 12:44 PM 4/12/2005, Meredith wrote: >I hereby announce that my corporation, MethWidgets Inc., is patenting the >concept of typing the letter 'y'. Herewith all instances of typing the >letter 'y' will require a license granted by MethWidgets, Inc., or else my >army of attorneys *will* send you a cease-and-desist for patent infringement. > >Thank you, y'all, and have a groovy day. I hereby patent the concept of breathing. So, pay up folks! ;^) John Higdon [ALERT] -- Access Manager: This email is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us by calling our North American Help Desk at (972)506-3939. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:57:44 -0700 From: Nadyne Mielke Subject: Re: Instant Live ( was Re: new Kristin Hersh live disc) On 12 Apr 2005, at 11:44, meredith wrote: > I hereby announce that my corporation, MethWidgets Inc., is patenting > the concept of typing the letter 'y'. Herewith all instances of > typing the letter 'y' will require a license granted by MethWidgets, > Inc., or else my army of attorneys *will* send you a cease-and-desist > for patent infringement. > Thank you, y'all, and have a groovy day. Just the typing of the letter y? That's okay, 'cause I used the Apple character palette to insert each of the instances of that letter in this message. ;) Back to the original subject of Ms Hersh, thanks to the original poster for mentioning this live disc. I forwarded the original message to a friend of mine who is a big fan, and who is very grateful to be able to order it. :) /nm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 16:01:45 -0400 From: gordodo@optonline.net Subject: Re: Instant Live ( was Re: new Kristin Hersh live disc) - ----- Original Message ----- From: John Higdon Date: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 3:30 pm Subject: Re: Instant Live ( was Re: new Kristin Hersh live disc) > At 12:44 PM 4/12/2005, Meredith wrote: > >I hereby announce that my corporation, MethWidgets Inc., is > patenting the > >concept of typing the letter 'y'. Herewith all instances of > typing the > >letter 'y' will require a license granted by MethWidgets, Inc., > or else my > >army of attorneys *will* send you a cease-and-desist for patent > infringement.> > >Thank you, y'all, and have a groovy day. > > I hereby patent the concept of breathing. So, pay up folks! > ;^) > > > > John Higdon > i hear that clear channel has already patented that for all future concerts...now you either have to hold your breath while in the venue or pay $1 a minute plus service fees and equipment rental to connect to a snorkel tube (aka a relly long straw) to breathe air from outside a clear channel venue. those bastards. :) seriously, as someone who has written a patent for a business process ("shame on me") I can see the point where it does offer a competitive advantage...of course patenting common sense things only to try and make other people's lives miserable and drive off competition is a whole different issue. silly example of this...at a research event there was a lot of work being done with rf tags...there were piles of some childrens game that had this technology included in it (along with the patent rights for the application for the game) that was being used in the demo. needless to say the game didnt sell, the company went bankrupt, the patent cannot be licensed or purchased and now to work around the patent and accomplish the same goals costs thousands of dollars per unit (and they buy every copy of the game that comes up on ebay to get the controllers). isnt intellectual property great? i should patent the process of having sound waves transmit joy enhancing emotional responses in people...hmmm - -jason np "not breathing because I dont want to send john any $$$" and i'm sure i used lots of y's so meth feel free to send me a bill :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 20:18:00 -0400 From: glenn mcdonald Subject: an audiotest For those of you who enjoy hearing fast medleys of unidentified cover songs and trying to think what they are: http://www.furia.com/misc/audiotest0002.html Ecto knowledge might be rewarded more than once! glenn ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:10:06 +1000 From: Amanda Williams Subject: Who owns the ideas? A friend's father was a patent attorney (he has now passed over), and to prove how stupid this whole practise of patenting-something-that's-not your-idea-but-hasn't been-patented is, he patented the wheel. He didn't want to enforce it, just to prove a point. Amanda Oh yeah, I seem to recall that one from several years back. Which brings to mind another aspect of the recent patent problems: companies are often patenting concepts that they did not themselves develop. But it's considered legal so long as the concept wasn't previously patented, doesn't infringe on another's patent rights. This is part of the reason that it's happening: corporations are racing to patent concepts that are already out there, partly to squeeze out competitors, and partly for fear that a competitor will get there first and thus squeeze them out. John Higdon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 19:32:59 -0500 From: Hooplessly Unfroody Subject: Re: Instant Live ( was Re: new Kristin Hersh live disc) At 04:01 PM 4/12/2005 -0400, gordodo@optonline.net wrote: >i should patent the process of having sound waves transmit joy enhancing >emotional responses in people...hmmm Too late - Sony just beat you to it. http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18624944.600 bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 21:26:34 -0700 From: Ethan Straffin Subject: Re: an audiotest Damn. I recognize exactly two of those songs and one of those artists. Either I suck or you're mean. Maybe both. Ethan glenn mcdonald wrote: > For those of you who enjoy hearing fast medleys of unidentified cover > songs and trying to think what they are: > > http://www.furia.com/misc/audiotest0002.html > > Ecto knowledge might be rewarded more than once! > > glenn ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V11 #100 ***************************