From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V11 #23 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Monday, January 24 2005 Volume 11 : Number 023 Today's Subjects: ----------------- trauma of silence -- a defence [Adam K ] RE: ecto-digest V11 #22/Re: the trauma of silence ["London, Sherry" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 17:08:22 +0000 From: Adam K Subject: trauma of silence -- a defence I think I should mention a couple of things in my defence, here: I recently read an article by a journalist in NYC who had decided to stop listening to his iPod as he felt he was depriving himself of part of the energy that he had moved to NYC to partake in. I understood that, but I know -- as someone who's lived in both places -- that there's a diffence between walking down 2nd Avenue, NYC, and walking down Caledonian Road, North London: This seedy, litter-strewn, traffic-choked conduit of drudgery, lined with housing estates, prisons and warehouses and seemingly designed strictly for passing through. I have walked and bused down it regularly for several years, and while there are some sights along the route that are certainly, well, less than grim, whatever it has to offer in the way of aural pleasure (diesel engines, mostly, if that's your thing) lost its novelty some time ago. I don't so much use music to block out the world's soundtrack -- I use it enhance it. When I'm walking along the quieter side streets up to the main roads, I'm more than happy to listen to birdsong, or the sound of wind in the branches or leaves of trees, but when it comes to Caledonian Road, my soundtrack is better than its soundtrack. Trust me on that. On this particular day, the knowledge that I was going to spend three more times than usual at the mercy of public transport, where everyone is grimly locked into their own world, was a double blow. As it happened, a man opposite sneezed. I smiled, nodded, and said, "Bless you", but he studiously ignored me and went back to staring out of the window. There was also the fact that, unbeknownst to me, I was on the verge of crashing down with the most virulent, violent stomach bug I've ever had. I suspect, then, that there might have been other forces at work, besides fatigue and the need for a familiar song. I imagine I could use a bit more silence in my life. But, hell, something's got to stop the voices in my head ;-) adam k. np: peter gabriel/up nr: nothing. Just finished Philip Pullman's "Ruby in the Smoke" quartet, highly recommended for a rip-roaring, page-turning read. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 15:21:27 -0800 From: "London, Sherry" Subject: RE: ecto-digest V11 #22/Re: the trauma of silence Hey BOYS: reign in the testosterone. Adam tells of his frustration because he trusts that he can reveal his feelings here and what do some of you *guys* do but tell him why he shouldn't feel that way and give him advise about a better way to live, YOUR way. Reminds me of the response to Meredith's email about the tragedy in Asia and someone had to point out that in fact this wasn't the largest tragedy the world has seen in recent memory.......TOTALLY LOSING THE POINT. I know that some of you have that masculine need to poke holes in other people's feelings but must it be shared on a primarily women's music list.... I know you *guys* won't mind me exerting my female need to be bitchy about how this effects me. sherry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 20:37:09 -0500 From: Michael Curry Subject: Over the Rhine news (new album and some tour dates) For those interested.... >Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:33:02 EST >To: OTRannounce@overtherhine.com >From: OTRAnnounce@overtherhine.com >Subject: [OTR Announce] A few teasers... > >Hello everybody. > >If you lived here in Ohio, you'd be snowy by now. > >A few quick things: > >If you're in the area and feel like coming in out of the cold to hear some >warm, upright piano music and some off-kilter yet hopeful poems and a few >stories, Linford Detweiler will be performing a solo concert Saturday, >February 22nd (tomorrow) in Livonia, Michigan, at the Trinity House >Theater, with very special guest Jason Dennie. > >Check out: http://overtherhine.com/when/tourdates/index.html for more info. > >Drunkard's Prayer, the new full-length cd from Over the Rhine is due to be >released on Virgin/Back Porch Records on Tuesday, March 29, 2005. Much >more on that soon. (We thought the record was going to be called Born for >awhile, but then it switched back to the original title.) > >Over the Rhine will be performing some warm-up shows in the Northeast >prior to the release of Drunkard's Prayer : > >February 28 Annapolis, MD Ram's Head Tavern >March 1 Arlington, VA Jammin' Java >March 2 Philadelphia, PA Tin Angel (Two shows) >March 4 Northampton, MA Iron Horse Music Hall >March 5 Lancaster, PA The Chameleon >March 6 NYC, NY Mercury Lounge > >We'll be in touch with more soon. > >In the meanwhile, stay cozy and thanks for listening. > >Over the Rhine >_______________________________________________ >OTRAnnounce mailing list >OTRAnnounce@overtherhine.com >http://overtherhine.com/mailman/listinfo/otrannounce_overtherhine.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 20:48:39 -0600 From: Doug Subject: Re: ecto-digest V11 #22/Re: the trauma of silence > I know that some of you have that masculine need to poke holes > in other people's feelings but must it be shared on a primarily women's > music list.... What do you mean by "women's music list"? A list about music made by women, or a list designed for women to discuss music? I can only hope you don't mean the latter... - --Doug ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 19:39:15 -0800 From: Greg Bossert Subject: Re: ecto-digest V11 #22/Re: the trauma of silence On Jan 23, 2005, at 6:48 PM, Doug wrote: >> I know that some of you have that masculine need to poke holes >> in other people's feelings but must it be shared on a primarily >> women's >> music list.... > What do you mean by "women's music list"? A list about music made by > women, or a list designed for women to discuss music? deep breath, everyone. as someone who was here from the beginning (before it, actually) and ran the list for many years, i can only remind y'all that ecto was founded to discuss Happy's music, period (since lovehounds was getting a bit tired of the constant Happy thread ;-). the focus has grown, to everyone's delight, to encompass independent, atmospheric, evocative music from musicians of all types, origins, and sexes. if there has been a particular focus on female vocalists, well, that's partially because of the common thread of Happy's own music, and partially because there are some particular challenges for out-of-the-mainstream female musicians that ecto-folk could help address. but Kevin was certainly a big part of Happy's sound when this list started, and there are many male musicians who are definitively "ecto"; i don't ever recall a mention of a male musician being spurned because he was a he. i won't touch the comment about "a list designed for women"; i think Sherry was out of line for the sexist tone of her message, and Doug was out of line for responding to it instead of letting it drop, and i hope every one else on the list will join me in declaring that debate ludicrous and unworthy of any further discussion. as far as the original discussion, i can only note that Doug's message, while brusk in tone, was talking about the beauty of listening to the world around one, and was hardly testosterone-heavy in a cliched sense. still, i suspect that Doug was really frustrated about the ubiquitous of noise and a "plugged-in" lifestyle, and that it was not useful to let that frustration come out at Adam personally. i personally love listening to *everything*, and find as much music in the bustle of a city street as in a bird-dappled forest. but i am also amazed by the power of music to soak into oneself and transform one's surroundings, and i have felt the loss and disorientation when the batteries die and the magic fades. this could have been an interesting discussion, and is in fact a classic topic on some of my experimental/ambient music lists. but if we are going to resort to personal attacks, then it's just going to be boring -- and whatever ecto is, it certainly has not been and should not be boring. - -g - -- "i've never been afraid to change the circumstances of the world" - -- Happy Rhodes - -- "except for bunnies..." - -- Anya [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/pkcs7-signature which had a name of smime.p7s] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 23:24:27 -0600 From: "Green, Patrick" Subject: RE: ecto-digest V11 #22/Re: the trauma of silence Well said Greg. Trauma, apparently, is trauma. Even suffered in silence and innocently passed through the semi-annonymous medium of text there is reaction, response, a need for righting the thought in bold waves or mere ripples in pond. Sometimes a comment is intended as song, in the sense that some sing along while others turn away in search of a tune closer to places they feel they belong. psg - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ecto@smoe.org on behalf of Greg Bossert Sent: Sun 1/23/2005 9:39 PM To: Ecto Subject: Re: ecto-digest V11 #22/Re: the trauma of silence On Jan 23, 2005, at 6:48 PM, Doug wrote: >> I know that some of you have that masculine need to poke holes >> in other people's feelings but must it be shared on a primarily >> women's >> music list.... > What do you mean by "women's music list"? A list about music made by > women, or a list designed for women to discuss music? deep breath, everyone. as someone who was here from the beginning (before it, actually) and ran the list for many years, i can only remind y'all that ecto was founded to discuss Happy's music, period (since lovehounds was getting a bit tired of the constant Happy thread ;-). the focus has grown, to everyone's delight, to encompass independent, atmospheric, evocative music from musicians of all types, origins, and sexes. if there has been a particular focus on female vocalists, well, that's partially because of the common thread of Happy's own music, and partially because there are some particular challenges for out-of-the-mainstream female musicians that ecto-folk could help address. but Kevin was certainly a big part of Happy's sound when this list started, and there are many male musicians who are definitively "ecto"; i don't ever recall a mention of a male musician being spurned because he was a he. i won't touch the comment about "a list designed for women"; i think Sherry was out of line for the sexist tone of her message, and Doug was out of line for responding to it instead of letting it drop, and i hope every one else on the list will join me in declaring that debate ludicrous and unworthy of any further discussion. as far as the original discussion, i can only note that Doug's message, while brusk in tone, was talking about the beauty of listening to the world around one, and was hardly testosterone-heavy in a cliched sense. still, i suspect that Doug was really frustrated about the ubiquitous of noise and a "plugged-in" lifestyle, and that it was not useful to let that frustration come out at Adam personally. i personally love listening to *everything*, and find as much music in the bustle of a city street as in a bird-dappled forest. but i am also amazed by the power of music to soak into oneself and transform one's surroundings, and i have felt the loss and disorientation when the batteries die and the magic fades. this could have been an interesting discussion, and is in fact a classic topic on some of my experimental/ambient music lists. but if we are going to resort to personal attacks, then it's just going to be boring -- and whatever ecto is, it certainly has not been and should not be boring. - -g - -- "i've never been afraid to change the circumstances of the world" - -- Happy Rhodes - -- "except for bunnies..." - -- Anya [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/pkcs7-signature which had a name of smime.p7s] [ALERT] -- Access Manager: This email is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. Dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail or the information herein by anyone other than the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify us by calling our North American Help Desk at (972)506-3939. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 01:48:57 -0500 From: "Michael Quinn" Subject: RE: the trauma of silence Well having moved to a small town from a big city I very much miss the ambient noise that is part of a large city's downtown area. I also miss the anonymity of the city, where people basically mind their own business. Maybe it is anti-social of me but I really dislike people I don't know saying hello to me on the street, I never know whether to respond to this by just saying hello back or starting some banal conversation, neither of which I really want to do because I don't know the person or have any reason to talk to them. I also hate feeling like I'm on display and people are watching be, being anonymous is so much better. I also hate the silence, there is an energy in those constant ambient noises that makes you feel much larger then yourself. Total silence tends to just make e feel very alone and music certainly helps with that. Maybe it is wrong to feel this way but sp be it..... On another topic has anyone attempted to define "ectophile" music. I subscribed to this list because it dealt with many obscure artists which I like and I do see a similarity between a lot of them which goes far beyond gender [I listen to maybe 75-80% female vocalists, just a preference of mine] I find the similarity between these artists ineffable and hard to pinpoint though. Anyway your list and website are great, I'm glad I found it. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ecto@smoe.org [mailto:owner-ecto@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Michael Hewett-Hicks Sent: Saturday, January 22, 2005 3:02 AM To: ecto@smoe.org Cc: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: Re: the trauma of silence Beautifully put, Patrick! I just wanted to add that I thought Doug was a bit harsh... I lived in London UK for 10 years and so have experience with the 'commute'. In London, as in many huge cities, people often don't connect - they don't look at each other, don't acknowledge each other. When I first returned to the much smaller Victoria (Vancouver Island) I was in London mode - I found it strange that people were looking at me and actually making conversation! I had forgotten how to do this! So I don't know, Doug, if you live in a huge city like London - Im not denying you have a very good point, but I think the locale can make a difference to how dependent one becomes on ones 'personal entertainment device'..... Michael. On 21 Jan 2005, at 22:55, ecto-digest wrote: > From: "Green, Patrick" > Subject: RE: the trauma of silence > > Doug's sentiment I would echo, though it may not seem so Ecto. > > Imagine that the words and tunes (esp. many of Happy's) come not > merely from > the thoughts of the makers but from their soul. It is by technology > that we > get to share in their expression, but that technology also fills every > moment > of every day with this content from other beings. > > If left to your own devices, bereft of those man-made, you cannot hear > the > wonder of the world, then listen with your soul. Listen to the rhythm > of the > wheels on the road, the percussive rumble of feet on the go. There is > music in > this too, a music made by the instant of life's happening, audible > only to > those not so dependant on what is already known, but available to > beings who > feel safe on their own, alone with their own soul. > > After all when we depart, the "everlasting" part is more likely to be > an > experience and less of a show... where existence of the moment might > overwhelm > the constant soothing input we enjoy through headphones. > > psg ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V11 #23 **************************