From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V10 #315 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Tuesday, November 16 2004 Volume 10 : Number 315 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Today's your birthday, friend... [Mike Matthews ] Excellent concert ["Marcel Kshensky" ] a couple of house show booking/negotiating suggestions [dmw ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 03:00:05 -0500 (EST) From: Mike Matthews Subject: Today's your birthday, friend... i*i*i*i*i*i i*i*i*i*i*i *************** *****HAPPY********* **************BIRTHDAY********* *************************************************** *************************************************************************** ********************** Dave Cook (no Email address) *********************** *************************************************************************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Dave Cook Mon November 15 1971 Scorpio Jeff Pearce November 16 Orpheus Naama Avramzon Mon November 18 1974 Scorpio Jeff Smith Mon November 19 1962 Crash Kevin Bartlett Fri November 21 1952 Scorpio with Saturn and Pluto issues Claudia Spix Wed November 23 1960 Schuetze Anja Baldo Tue November 23 1965 Garbanzo Tommy Persson Wed November 25 1964 Sagittarius Pat Tessitore November 26 Sagittarius Valerie Kraemer November 26 Sagittarius Justin Bur Fri November 27 1964 Sagittarius Sue Trowbridge Sun November 27 1966 Skytten Ward Kadel Tue November 29 1977 Sagittarius Jesse Hernandez Liwag Wed November 29 1972 Water Rat Mirko Bulaja Sat November 30 1974 Block Juha Sorva Thu December 02 1976 Sagittarius Chip Lueck Thu December 05 1968 Sagittarius Lenore December 05 sagi Michele Wellck December 08 Sagittarius Jeremy J. Corry Fri December 11 1970 Sagittarius Renee Canada Tue December 13 1977 Sagittarius Julie C. Kammerzell Sun December 15 1968 Sagittarius/Scorpio combo Gloria Jackson-Nefertiti Sat December 15 1956 queen_nefertiti@prodigy.net - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:49:30 -0500 From: "Marcel Kshensky" Subject: Excellent concert There might still be some seats left for this excellent concert. Arlo Guthrie & The Klezmatics are performing the Jewish songs of Woody Guthrie at Carnegie Hall the evening of November 27th. I just heard Susan McKeown is performing with them as well. - -- _______________________________________________ Find what you are looking for with the Lycos Yellow Pages ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 14:49:05 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: a couple of house show booking/negotiating suggestions hi, from the artist's agent's perspective (i'm not an agent, but i know enough of them that i think i can say this...), there are two things that are worse than an off-day on a tour: the first is a show that will lose the artist potential fans for reasons outside the artist's control, and the second is a show that will make it harder for the artist to get booked in the region in the future. to the first point -- house shows fall along a continuum -- some are very fly-by night. they have little or no public address equipment, no sound engineer available, and live under constant threat of being shut-down by the police. some have been around for years, have sound equipment better than many "professional" venues, and are even promoted in the mainstream media. as a house promoter writing to an agent, i think you should mention the number of shows you've done/how long you've been doing them, what equipment/technical assistance you can provide, what your "venue" capacity is and how you will promote the performance. (as an aside: acoustic performers may require a lot less in the way of sound equipment than bands, and most of my experience is in promoting/producing/playing rock shows ... but some performers may rely on reverbs or other effects that virtually any pro venue will have available but most home venues won't. i don't mean that as a slur on artists who use such tools, either ... kevin bartlett is a helluva musician in my estimation, but what he does best fundamentally requires that he have enormous control over the shaping and presentation of the sounds he creates.) the second point is trickier to address -- in my experience, competition between pro venues is generally friendly more often than not. sound reinforcement folks often work for competing venues in the same town, it's not uncommon to see bookers for one club checking out the acts across town, etc. some (by no means all, but some) professional venues regard house shows very differently and with much more enmity. i think there are 2 big reasons: the first is that acts at many house shows are less professional/polished overall ... some pro venues see house shows (wrongly, in my opinion) as the province of amateurs, and will be less likely to book someone who played a house show last time through. the second reason is that things are tough for pro venues in every single market i know anything about -- and house shows exists without having to deal with all the things pro venues do -- rent, liquor boards, business licenses and zoning, ascap + bmi licensing, etc. etc. -- and some (again, by no means all) pro venues regard the house shows as enjoying an unfair competitive advantage, and are pretty resentful of them. so as a house show promoter, anything you can do to dispell that stigma will increase your chances of getting a "yes" from the agent. the ideal thing would be a track record of "graduating" artists from your house shows to pro venues as their audience grows beyond your own ability to handle. of course, if you're in position to offer a guarantee, that prolly wouldn't hurt either. the pathetic caverns: a zine - opinionated and eclectic reviews a studio - specializing in indie/rock/mobile/live/demo recording http://www.pathetic-caverns.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 15:33:46 -0500 From: meredith Subject: Re: a couple of house show booking/negotiating suggestions Hi, dmw posted: >house shows fall along a continuum -- some are very fly-by night. >they have little or no public address equipment, no sound engineer >available, and live under constant threat of being shut-down by >the police. You make it sound like having no PA is a bad thing. The vast majority of musicians who do house concerts are in the acoustic singer/songwriter vein, where a PA is not necessary. That last point is a bit of an extreme generalization, too. I've never heard of a house concert being shut down by the police ... again, since it's mainly acoustic music it's usually not a noise concern. I have heard of several series running into problems with local zoning boards and other offices in City Hall, though in many cases they've been able to work things out once the officials realize that these concerts are really private parties where the attendees are pitching in to help pay for the entertainment, and not any sort of a business venture. >some have been around for years, have sound equipment >better than many "professional" venues, and are even promoted in >the mainstream media. ... and these are the ones that are more likely to end up having problems with City Hall. :) Staying underneath the radar is the name of the game. >as a house promoter writing to an agent, i think you should >mention the number of shows you've done/how long you've been doing >them, what equipment/technical assistance you can provide, what >your "venue" capacity is and how you will promote the >performance. This is excellent advice. House concert promoters should also mention what their default "suggested donation" amount is and whether/how much they'd be willing to raise it, so the agent can determine what the $ potential is for the performance. >some (by no means all, but some) professional venues regard house >shows very differently and with much more enmity. I haven't heard of this happening much in my area, but I'm fortunate in that I know the folks who run the local "competing" venues, and I happen to run one of the series that could be considered competition as well. :) I can check in with the Acoustic Cafe and The Space and St. John's Coffeehouse to see what they've got coming up and make sure there are no conflicts. >some pro venues see house >shows (wrongly, in my opinion) as the province of amateurs, and >will be less likely to book someone who played a house show last >time through. That's just stupid, and I really hope that doesn't happen too often. House shows are a means for an artist to fill in an open date, or more importantly, build an audience in a town they haven't been to before. >of course, if you're in position to offer a guarantee, that prolly >wouldn't hurt either. Not too many house concert presenters are in that position, but if they are, more power to 'em. Guarantees can be thorny, though, because they can be construed by official City Hall folks as evidence that you're running a business and not just throwing a party. Just my $0.02 as someone who's put on almost 30 house concerts over the years ... =============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth =============================================== hear at the HOMe House Concert Series http://hom.smoe.org =============================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 17:49:20 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: Re: a couple of house show booking/negotiating suggestions On Mon, 15 Nov 2004, meredith wrote: > Hi, > > dmw posted: > > >house shows fall along a continuum -- some are very fly-by night. > >they have little or no public address equipment, no sound engineer > >available, and live under constant threat of being shut-down by > >the police. > > You make it sound like having no PA is a bad thing. The vast majority of > musicians who do house concerts are in the acoustic singer/songwriter vein, > where a PA is not necessary. well, like i said, most of my experience is with bands, and i agree that no pa has much less impact on acoustic performers (especially solo performers). but some acts -- even acoustic acts - -- benefit enormously from having monitors or having some outboard signal processing capability -- and i think the kind of performers who have professional booking are more likely to be accustomed to some of those kind of things than the performers who seek out house shows regularly. and continuum was prolly a bad word. it's really multiple axes: equipment, longevity of the venue/experience of the promoter, capacity, and proximity to pro venues are among the things bookers are going to weigh. > That last point is a bit of an extreme generalization, too. I've never > heard of a house concert being shut down by the police ... again, since > it's mainly acoustic music it's usually not a noise concern. I have heard there's a very active punk rock house show community where police action is a very real concern, believe me. in fact, probably the best punk show house here in boston was shut down for good after numerous skirmishes, and several of the remaining punk show houses here in boston just got some pretty big press coverage in the last couple of months -- which may not be good for their health. ... and while i know that ectophiles are talking almost exclusively about acoustic music (and that community is probably larger than the punk house show network), the thing is, you may be writing to an agent who just read a similar article about hardcore house shows, and thinks that's the mainstream. it's all about perception and positioning as much as it is about fact -- if you're writing to someone who is feeling antsy about the gig, you're better off if you can say something like 'we've been running shows at this location approximately once every two months for the last three years' and provide some assurance (without saying so in so many words) that there's no chance the artist is going to be hauled off to jail. > of several series running into problems with local zoning boards and other > offices in City Hall, though in many cases they've been able to work things > out once the officials realize that these concerts are really private > parties where the attendees are pitching in to help pay for the > entertainment, and not any sort of a business venture. > > >some have been around for years, have sound equipment > >better than many "professional" venues, and are even promoted in > >the mainstream media. > > ... and these are the ones that are more likely to end up having problems > with City Hall. :) Staying underneath the radar is the name of the game. well, maybe, but staying under the radar is not the game the professional booking agent is trying to play -- maybe i should have said this more clearly, but my advice is really intended for the condition in which the artist says "it's okay by me, but call my booker and run it by him/her." > >as a house promoter writing to an agent, i think you should > >mention the number of shows you've done/how long you've been doing > >them, what equipment/technical assistance you can provide, what > >your "venue" capacity is and how you will promote the > >performance. > > This is excellent advice. House concert promoters should also mention what > their default "suggested donation" amount is and whether/how much they'd be > willing to raise it, so the agent can determine what the $ potential is for > the performance. > > >some (by no means all, but some) professional venues regard house > >shows very differently and with much more enmity. > > I haven't heard of this happening much in my area, but I'm fortunate in > that I know the folks who run the local "competing" venues, and I happen to > run one of the series that could be considered competition as well. :) I > can check in with the Acoustic Cafe and The Space and St. John's > Coffeehouse to see what they've got coming up and make sure there are no > conflicts. > > >some pro venues see house > >shows (wrongly, in my opinion) as the province of amateurs, and > >will be less likely to book someone who played a house show last > >time through. > > That's just stupid, and I really hope that doesn't happen too often. House > shows are a means for an artist to fill in an open date, or more > importantly, build an audience in a town they haven't been to before. yup. many of the best shows i've seen over the past 3 or 4 years have been house shows, too. it is stupid, which doesn't mean it doesn't happen. > >of course, if you're in position to offer a guarantee, that prolly > >wouldn't hurt either. > > Not too many house concert presenters are in that position, but if they > are, more power to 'em. Guarantees can be thorny, though, because they can > be construed by official City Hall folks as evidence that you're running a > business and not just throwing a party. no argument there, either. > > Just my $0.02 as someone who's put on almost 30 house concerts over the > years ... > i've worked on more other 'alternative space' promotion -- galleries, warehouses, community rec centers, in-stores etc. than house shows per se, although i've worked on at least a couple dozen house shows too. i've also booked/promoted/stage managed shows at a number of pro venues. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 22:31:17 -0500 From: glenn mcdonald Subject: Re: Blue Nile info _High_, the new album, will not surprise existing Blue Nile fans much, as the band shows no particular inclination to alter their basic style, or even their drum machines, in any significant way. I'd say that each of their four albums is slightly more open and organic than the previous ones, which at this rate means that around the year 2342 they'll reproduce the first Hothouse Flowers album... glenn ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V10 #315 ***************************