From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V10 #196 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Thursday, July 15 2004 Volume 10 : Number 196 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: One moment of your time ["Xenu's Sister" ] Happy's 1st 4 on ebay ["Xenu's Sister" ] Prescott Bush cite ["Xenu's Sister" ] a plea for civility [breinheimer@webtv.net (bill)] Today's your birthday, friends... [Mike Matthews ] Politics on ecto ["Marcel Rijs" ] the presidents impact on the music business [RedWoodenBeads@aol.com] Re: One moment of your time [forwardtcm@softhome.net] Re: Two Sides of a Losing Battle [forwardtcm@softhome.net] Re: One moment of your time [joe del tufo ] the problem i am having with "one moment of your time" [gordodo@optonline] Shipping snafu on Happy T-shirts [CptBryant@aol.com] Re: the presidents impact on the music business [Scott Andrew LePera ] Re: Eno & Politics [Ellen Rawson ] HR shipping okay [CptBryant@aol.com] Re: a plea for civility [bbecto@mooman.com] RE: the problem i am having with "one moment of your time" ["Foghorn J. F] Re: Eno & Politics ["Xenu's Sister" ] Re: Two Sides of a Losing Battle ["Robert Lovejoy" ] An apology, and you HAVE to see this animated Bush/Kerry cartoon [Mike Co] USA Releases for these CDs? [stumck@webtv.net (Stuart McKenney)] Dresden Dolls across America (and in Canada and Germany too) [Michael Cur] Re: USA Releases for these CDs? [Nadyne Mielke ] Fwd: JOLIE HOLLAND, the JOY BUZZARDS play 'the palms'--Winters, CA July 20th [heidi maier Subject: Re: One moment of your time At 02:47 PM 7/13/2004, Doug wrote:>> >> Not my problem. This country is in crisis. > It is? Wow, I didn't know and couldn't tell. Thanks for the heads-up. You're welcome, glad I could help. I started a post to address the questions/comments you made. Some were very good points that would have taken me some time to gather cites and links. Then I quit, decided not to bother. Which is a shame, because it makes me look very bad, as if I were running off with my tail between my legs, yelping in pain at the sharp blows you landed on my logic. I guess I'll have to live with that. Because, they way you end your post: > Did you protest when Clinton bombed an aspirin factory in an effort to distract the American public from his sexual entanglements? Or were you too busy defending his right to on-the-job-knob-gobbling? I'm sincerely interested in your answer. Makes me realize that it wouldn't matter anyway. Any time someone brings up Clinton in order to deflect attention away from the current administration's far worse failings, it's a lost cause.There are answers to your questions, but I'm not sure you'd care anyway. I will answer your questions though since you seem so sincerely interested.I did protest Clinton's bombings in Sudan and Afghanistan, but after reading Richard Clarke's book "Against All Enemies" I believe now that they were exactly what was said at the time, strikes in retaliation for the embassy bombings in Tanzania and Kenya, and an effort to kill Usama bin Laden in one fell swoop. Of course Clinton was accused of "wagging the dog" but Clarke is very persuasive that it wasn't the case at all. Obviously things didn't turn out well, but if it had worked, 9/11 might never have happened. Contrary to what Republicans would have the public believe, bin Laden was a top priority in the Clinton administration, and Clarke details many separate efforts to find and kill him, from direct bombings to covert ops. None of it was good enough, unfortunately. Invading Afghanistan was never an option. Second, if the Republicans cared as much about this country as they did then and still do about a damn blowjob, maybe they'd have some credibility. I was not a Clinton supporter in all that. I hated him for what he did. I still hate the legacy that his stupidity caused. He played right into the right wing's grubby little paws. Still, it hardly warranted the minute-by-minute outrage of the right, the witch hunt by Kenneth Starr (financed by the American taxpayers, most of whom didn't give a damn), and the relentless 24/7 media coverage. Hell, Bush's grandfather financed the Nazis! Nobody in the media or on the right cares about that (the left thinks it's interesting, but haven't ever used it as a hammer), but Clinton's inability to keep his damn pants zipped was a national crisis. Sheesh! One more thing from an earlier post, then I'm done too. Mike Connell said: It's the main reason I outlaw politics, abortion, gay marriages and other hot/controversial issues off my two smoe lists It struck me before but I forgot to mention it. How terribly sad that gay marriage is considered such a "hot/controversial" issue that discussion of it has to be banned anywhere. How sad that it even has to be "discussed." It should be as normal and mundane a topic as heterosexual marriage, deserving of the same "congratulations on your engagement/marriage!" or "I'm so sorry to hear about your divorce" as any heterosexual would get. The day will come where it will be accepted and mundane (well, not to the participants). The sooner the better. Wanting to amend the Constitution to ban it is another huge black mark against George W. Bush. History will not be kind to this man. (btw, good post RavFlight!) V ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 01:15:02 -0500 From: "Xenu's Sister" Subject: Happy's 1st 4 on ebay Someone's selling a set of tapes. I put a bid in because I didn't want to see them not sell at all, but if someone else wants a valuable (sentimentally) piece of Happy history, be my guest. I only bid $10.00. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3826248484&ssPageName=STRK:MEBI:IT ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 01:26:30 -0500 From: "Xenu's Sister" Subject: Prescott Bush cite http://www.tarpley.net/bush2.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 02:21:46 -0400 From: breinheimer@webtv.net (bill) Subject: a plea for civility I knew I should have sent this out yesterday. Personally I could do without political conversations in a music list but a)it's not my call and b)the cat is out of the bag. Yes we often go off topic but there is a big difference between politics (and/or religion) and, say, Buffy the vampire slayer.There is a reason we call these topics "hot". The responses are often inflammatory (as in flame war).All I ask is that we try to make our points as politely as we can and show proper respect to those with whom we disagree. I think a quick re-reading of the posts on this subject would show inflammatory language that will not lead to reasonable debate and that will put many people on the defensive (and even more on the offensive). Although I think it is an over generalization I am reminded of a quote by Yeats "The worst are filled with a passionate intensity while the best lack all conviction" np-bel canto: magic box ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 03:00:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike Matthews Subject: Today's your birthday, friends... i*i*i*i*i*i i*i*i*i*i*i *************** *****HAPPY********* **************BIRTHDAY********* *************************************************** *************************************************************************** *************** Mitch Pravatiner (mapravat@prairienet.org) **************** ********************** R. Rapp (rich.rapp@effem.com) ********************** *************************************************************************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Mitch Pravatiner Mon July 14 1952 Cancer R. Rapp Wed July 14 1954 On a Gray Eye Sojourn John Zimmer Sun July 16 1961 Cancer Dan Stark Sun July 16 1961 Cancer Cathy Guetzlaff Mon July 18 1955 Cancer Vlad Sat July 18 1970 Warning: severe tire damage Jani Pinola Thu July 20 1972 Jonquil Alvin Brattli Sun July 27 1969 Lefthanded Christy Eger Smith Thu July 27 1944 Horse Crossing Shirley Ye July 27 Lioness woj Sun July 28 1968 children at play John Relph Sat July 28 1962 Leo Bob Kollmeyer Wed July 28 1971 Leo Steve Lusky Tue July 29 1952 Bike! Kate Bush Wed July 30 1958 God Chuck Smith Wed July 30 1958 Reboot Yves Denneulin Fri July 30 1971 Lion-Heart Joel Kenyon Wed July 31 1963 Leo Eli Brandt August 05 Leo Amanda Williams Tue August 05 1969 phoenix Martin Bridges Sat August 08 1970 BigGuy Rosana L. de Oliveira Wed August 08 1973 Leo Happy Rhodes Mon August 09 1965 HolyGhost - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 14:11:49 +0200 From: "Marcel Rijs" Subject: Politics on ecto Hi all, I was a bit surprised to see my ecto digest cut off after a digest became too big because of political e-mails. The whole American election thing is a circus I've never really understood but from a European point of view, the current president you have is perhaps the most disastrous ever. Think what you will about Bush's actions against (or leading to) more terrorism, fact is that no US president in recent history has met with so much ridicule outside of his own country. America is currently isolating itself by taking on a rather arrogant look at the world in which they should play a part and not play the 'master of puppets'. The good thing is, it will inspire musicians and artists and that's what this list is about. So here's to more controversy. Marcel Rijs. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 09:02:02 EDT From: RedWoodenBeads@aol.com Subject: the presidents impact on the music business Earlier someone mentioned something about the current administration's impact on the music industry. I'm just curious, could anyone expand on this, or maybe point me in a direction on the web where I could learn more? For example, how do Bush's policies affect radio differently from the policies of a democratic president like Clinton? Did Clinton support Clear Channel's current unquestioned dominance? joe joe and ellen music http://www.joeandellen.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 07:24:53 -0600 From: forwardtcm@softhome.net Subject: Re: One moment of your time >and by the way.........i'm sincerely not interested in your answer > fred marcus What, you're not even going to thank me for giving you an opportunity to vent? In that case I'll have to charge you $19.95 for my time and effort. (Hey, I'd normally charge you $49.95 but I'm having a sale.) --the non-Liberal Doug ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 07:34:14 -0600 From: forwardtcm@softhome.net Subject: Re: Two Sides of a Losing Battle > Fight for people. If you are a conservative, then elect someone that matches > your views. He or she doesn't have to be a Republican...all he/she has to be > is a good person willing to follow the call that they set forward in their Good people are usually smart enough to not run for President. Contrary to what you might think, in politics sh*t rises to the top. The cream maintains a low profile, and wisely so. Thus, we have to vote for the least filthy dungball presented to us. And it's a matter of opinion which dungball is encrusted with the least amount of sh*t. Hey, I'd be happy to vote against Bush. I'm tired of Big Oil running things. But I can't see how Big Ketchup would be much better. Gimme a decent alternative and he'll get my vote. Until then, my vote will go where I think it will do the least damage. --The non-Liberal Doug "Instructions are for those people who don't know what they are doing." - Bob the Builder ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 08:40:19 -0400 From: joe del tufo Subject: Re: One moment of your time I agree this is a music list, but of *any* music list you should see how relevant this issue is here. The Bush administration have created an atmosphere where Ecto artists will only rarely get exposure (google FCC, Michael Powell, Clear Channel for examples). If you don't think this is a music issue, do a search on Dixie Chicks and see what you find. Or give a listen to the number album in the country (Jadakiss, WHY?), now edited/ censored on radio for a line that implied that Bush was involved in 9/11. Remember when Clear Channel banned John Lennon's "Imagine" from their 1000+ stations after 9/11? Music is about free speech as much as anything, and for once I agree this topic should be discussed in a place where people are intelligent enough to get this concept. Saying things like "Bush is Hitler" does nothing but anger people who have already made up their minds. It's also an insulting comparison. Why not show them how Bush is not in anyone's best interests, especially people that love Ecto music. That would be a relevant and important conversation. Let's talk about how Ecto artists feel about the election. I consider myself a music person way before a politics person. But right now, it seems tough to separate the two. Thanks, Joe >Then why start this bullcrap here? This is a MUSIC list, not a politics >list. Plenty of folk here will be voting against Kerry this fall, so you're >bound to stir up some stuff with this. Do you just need to vent? Do a >search on Yahoo's Groups; I'm sure you can find some political groups there. > --Doug ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 10:19:21 -0400 From: gordodo@optonline.net Subject: the problem i am having with "one moment of your time" ok, not one to usually chime in on these kidns of discussions, I just want to offer my perspective... the fundamental problem I have with is the fact that they are all excuses where one group of people try to value themselves more than another group of people without realizing that there is a much larger and more common group called homo sapiens that we all belong to. had everyone been born X years ago before the advent of national borders, modern religious ideology, etc etc, would we be really having these discussions or is it that the technology that enables the world to get (or at least seem) smaller makes it seem that we deserve a bigger part of the world. if we spent less time worrying about whether our differences make us better or worse that the person sitting next to us but learned to appreciate the diversity in the world. for that is one of the reasons I love music - a common connection - let us not forget that. off my sapbox [i mean soapbox but that was a legit typo] for now :) jason np tresspasser williams - anchor ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 11:21:56 -0400 From: CptBryant@aol.com Subject: Shipping snafu on Happy T-shirts I need to mention that our website person hasn't yet made a correction - there is supposed to be a shipping charge of $3.50 on all T-shirt orders. Some of you may have already ordered and not paid shipping. That's our fault. We're trying to fix it asap. Ken Osterhaudt Auntie Social Music www.auntiesocialmusic.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 09:01:01 -0700 From: Scott Andrew LePera Subject: Re: the presidents impact on the music business RedWoodenBeads@aol.com wrote: > Did Clinton support Clear Channel's current > unquestioned dominance? Well, there were quite a few "bad" or questionable passed during Clinton's term that affect artists directly: The Telecommunications Act of 1996 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecommunications_Act_of_1996 This act allowed the FCC to lift the caps on the number of broadcast media outlets a single corporation could own in a single market. This led to the ClearChannel-dominated media environment we have today. The Digital Millenium Copyright Act (1998) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMCA Probably the most notorious recent copyright act. Among other things, it made tinkering with copy-protection technologies illegal. Recently, corporations have been using the DMCA to combat unfavorable public criticism and academic research, satire, parody and other forms of protected speech. Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act (1998) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonny_Bono_Copyright_Term_Extension_Act Extended the duration of copyrights by 20 years. While many have argued that this actually helps artists, it has the additional effect of keeping works from entering the public domain within a reasonable time. Many argue that the sole reason for this law's creation was to prevent Disney's Mickey Mouse character from slipping into the public domain. - -- Scott - -- Scott Andrew LePera Lo-fi DIY acoustic pop http://www.scottandrew.com scott@scottandrew.com My new record "Where I've Been" is now available at CD Baby! http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/walkingbirds3 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 09:14:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Alberto Carrasco Subject: Eno & Politics Contemporary music doesn't and shouldn't exclude political viewpoints and discussion. (I'm sure most are familiar with Eno's efforts with War Child www.warchild.org). I forward the following commentary from a musician most of us appreciate -- his take on the American/global situation. This pre-Iraq invasion editorial is ancient considering how much has happened in the past 18 months, but I re-read it periodically as it is and will continue to be relevant. - --------- TIME MAGAZINE  Europe Edition - Jan. 12, 2003 VIEWPOINT The U.S. Needs to Open Up to the World To this European, America is trapped in a fortress of arrogance and ignorance By BRIAN ENO Europeans have always looked at America with a mixture of fascination and puzzlement, and now, increasingly, disbelief. How is it that a country that prides itself on its economic success could have so many very poor people? How is it that a country so insistent on the rule of law should seek to exempt itself from international agreements? And how is it that the world's beacon of democracy can have elections dominated by wealthy special interest groups? For me, the question has become: "How can a country that has produced so much cultural and economic wealth act so dumb?" I could fill this page with the names of Americans who have influenced, entertained and educated me. They represent what I admire about America: a vigorous originality of thought, and a confidence that things can be changed for the better. That was the America I lived in and enjoyed from 1978 until 1983. That America was an act of faith  the faith that "otherness" was not threatening but nourishing, the faith that there could be a country big enough in spirit to welcome and nurture all the diversity the world could throw at it. But since Sept. 11, that vision has been eclipsed by a suspicious, introverted America, a country-sized version of that peculiarly American form of ghetto: the gated community. A gated community is defensive. Designed to keep the "others" out, it dissolves the rich web of society into a random clustering of disconnected individuals. It turns paranoia and isolation into a lifestyle. Surely this isn't the America that anyone dreamed of; it's a last resort, nobody's choice. It's especially ironic since so much of the best new thinking about society, economics, politics and philosophy in the last century came from America. Unhampered by the snobbery and exclusivity of much European thought, American thinkers vaulted forward  courageous, innovative and determined to talk in a public language. But, unfortunately, over the same period, the mass media vaulted backward, thriving on increasingly simple stories and trivializing news into something indistinguishable from entertainment. As a result, a wealth of original and subtle thought  America's real wealth  is squandered. This narrowing of the American mind is exacerbated by the withdrawal of the left from active politics. Virtually ignored by the media, the left has further marginalized itself by a retreat into introspective cultural criticism. It seems content to do yoga and gender studies, leaving the fundamentalist Christian right and the multinationals to do the politics. The separation of church and state seems to be breaking down too. Political discourse is now dominated by moralizing, like George W. Bush's promotion of American "family values" abroad, and dissent is unpatriotic. "You're either with us or against us" is the kind of cant you'd expect from a zealous mullah, not an American President. When Europeans make such criticisms, Americans assume we're envious. "They want what we've got," the thinking goes, "and if they can't get it, they're going to stop us from having it." But does everyone want what America has? Well, we like some of it but could do without the rest: among the highest rates of violent crime, economic inequality, functional illiteracy, incarceration and drug use in the developed world. President Bush recently declared that the U.S. was "the single surviving model of human progress." Maybe some Americans think this self-evident, but the rest of us see it as a clumsy arrogance born of ignorance. Europeans tend to regard free national health services, unemployment benefits, social housing and so on as pretty good models of human progress. We think it's important  civilized, in fact  to help people who fall through society's cracks. This isn't just altruism, but an understanding that having too many losers in society hurts everyone. It's better for everybody to have a stake in society than to have a resentful underclass bent on wrecking things. To many Americans, this sounds like socialism, big government, the nanny state. But so what? The result is: Europe has less gun crime and homicide, less poverty and arguably a higher quality of life than the U.S., which makes a lot of us wonder why America doesn't want some of what we've got. Too often, the U.S. presents the "American way" as the only way, insisting on its kind of free-market Darwinism as the only acceptable "model of human progress." But isn't civilization what happens when people stop behaving as if they're trapped in a ruthless Darwinian struggle and start thinking about communities and shared futures? America as a gated community won't work, because not even the world's sole superpower can build walls high enough to shield itself from the intertwined realities of the 21st century. There's a better form of security: reconnect with the rest of the world, don't shut it out; stop making enemies and start making friends. Perhaps it's asking a lot to expect America to act differently from all the other empires in history, but wasn't that the original idea? Brian Eno is a musician who believes that regime change begins at home __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 10:02:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Ellen Rawson Subject: Re: Eno & Politics - --- Alberto Carrasco wrote: > Contemporary music doesn't and shouldn't exclude > political viewpoints and discussion. (I'm sure most > are familiar with Eno's efforts with War Child > www.warchild.org). I forward the following > commentary > from a musician most of us appreciate -- his take on > the American/global situation. Thank you for posting this article. I think it helps explain why the rest of the world often wonders about the United States and doesn't always approve of what it does as a nation. As an ex-pat American, I often find that some friends in the US don't understand my point of view. To be honest, I've always been cynical about governments -- all governments. (Anyone else listening to Radio 4 about the Butler report? I heard it on the way home. I also heard that the Evening Standard is calling Blair "Teflon Tony"; I hope Pat Schroeder hears about that. :) However, the perspective gained when one leaves one's home country and lives elsewhere for a time (in my case, it's been five years and probably will be permanent) is filled with amazing insights that merely being a tourist or reading books simply cannot give you. Ellen ===== "Literature stops in 1100. After that, it's just books." - -- JRR Tolkien ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 13:41:12 -0400 From: CptBryant@aol.com Subject: HR shipping okay - -Well, the shipping calculator is now working for T-shirt sales. However, International shipping will be different. If anyone seeing this, living outside of the Continental U.S., and wishing to order a T-shirt, please email me first for shipping quotes. Thanks everyone. Ken Osterhaudt Auntie Social Music www.auntiesocialmusic.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 11:01:39 -0700 From: bbecto@mooman.com Subject: Re: a plea for civility Actually, I'd like to encourage anyone (liberal, moderate, conservative) who wants to work toward transforming the world to take a look at Landmark Education (www.landmarkeducation.com). It's a group that offers training programs that dwell on "what works", not on "what's right". The problem is that the latter depends too much on opinions and beliefs and invariably makes someone "wrong". The classes are belief-neutral and focus only on living a powerful life, whatever that life may be. I've taken a few of them and will say they've made a very amazing impact in my own life. So while I may agree or disagree with many of the opinions lobbed about here in ecto of late, I am committed to only participating in the context of "what works". And I think that what works here is for all of us that have strong convictions to go do something tangible about it (communicating with government representatives, joining or supporting initiatives to bring about whatever change we feel is needed, or running for an office ourself) and not to make the others on here "wrong" simply because they don't have the same mindset you do. And to keep this on an obEcto side, I figured I'd share the lyrics that have been going though my head lately, from Midge Ure: *** Dear God, is there somebody out there? Is there someone to hear my prayer? I'm a simple man with simple words to say Is there some point in asking? Asking for more only got us where we are today Lost and alone and afraid Give me, love for the lonely Give me, food for the hungry Give me, peace in a restless world Give me, hope for the children Give me, a worldwide religion Give me, peace in a restless world Dear God, can you hear me crying? A whole world crying Looking for something to say We had it all and we threw it all away Is there somebody watching? Somebody watching over the mess that we've made We're lost and alone and afraid Give me, love for the lonely Give me, food for the hungry Give me, peace in a restless world Give me, hope for the children Give me, a worldwide religion Give me, peace in a restless world And we need to know there's something good Though all our years of solitude go on and on and on... ******* moo. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 16:23:29 -0400 From: "Foghorn J. Fornorn" Subject: RE: the problem i am having with "one moment of your time" In November of 2001 the proliferation of a certain bumper sticker here in the U.S. gave me the inspiration for this parody. http://home.earthlink.net/~foghornj/proud.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 17:50:15 -0500 From: "Xenu's Sister" Subject: Re: Eno & Politics At 11:14 AM 7/14/2004, Alberto wrote: TIME MAGAZINE Europe Edition - Jan. 12, 2003 >VIEWPOINT >The U.S. Needs to Open Up to the World > >To this European, America is trapped in >a fortress of arrogance and ignorance > >By BRIAN ENO > >Europeans have always looked at America with a mixture >of fascination and puzzlement, and now, increasingly, >disbelief. Thanks for that Alberto. America right now is like a drunk guy who goes around yelling, picking his nose and getting into fights, looking stupid and being obnoxious and dangerous at the same time. Everyone else can see that he's being a dick, but he and his buddies are oblivious. So yeah, maybe the guy lost his wife in an accident, and everyone felt really sorry for him for a while, but then he started drinking and being an asshole, and all that sympathy has now evaporated. The dude needs to sober up. I never thought I'd say it's embarrassing to be an American, but it is. I love my country. I want it back. Vickie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 19:03:15 -0400 From: "Robert Lovejoy" Subject: Re: Two Sides of a Losing Battle > Hey, I'd be happy to vote against Bush. I'm tired of Big Oil running > things. But I can't see how Big Ketchup would be much better. Gimme a > decent alternative and he'll get my vote. Until then, my vote will go where > I think it will do the least damage. > > --The non-Liberal Doug I voted for Nader last time. I dare not this time. At least I'm heartened to read that you won't be voting for Bush. He has already done so much damage - to our freedom, to our budget, and to our status in world opinion. Left unchecked, he will draft my sons as fodder for his oil cronies' Iraq grab. At any rate, they will be paying for his folly long after I'm gone. Talk about damage, it's just amazing what he has done. The Libertarian Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:44:12 -0400 From: Mike Connell Subject: An apology, and you HAVE to see this animated Bush/Kerry cartoon Well, I weigh the same as a duck and was a jerk last night (more on that later down below). While I do still believe a mailing list like this is no place for political discussion (I myself just do not want political discussion filling my inbox), I MORE than crossed the line in expressing my views. It is clear this list has forever welcomed just about any discussion, I knew that and certainly should have known better. I must have over or under medicated yesterday ;-) I humbly offer my apologies to Vickie and all here for what I did. On a lighter note, while I will not discuss politics here, if you want to laugh until your sides split, by all means head to www.jibjab.com or www.jibjab.com/thisland.html to view THE funniest animated political cartoon you have ever laid your eyes and leaned your ears up against! It's an instant classic, in song form, with Mr. Bush and Mr Kerry duking it out to the tune of This Land Is Our Land. Be prepared to pee your pants... Properly medicated today, Mike VILLAGER #1: We have found a jerk. May we burn him? CROWD: Burn him! Burn! Burn him! Burn him! BEDEVERE: How do you know he is a jerk? VILLAGER #2: He emails the list like one. CROWD: Right! Yeah! Yeah! BEDEVERE: Bring him forward. JERK: I'm not a jerk. I'm not a jerk. BEDEVERE: Uh, but you are dressed as one. JERK: They dressed me up like this. CROWD: Augh, we didn't! We didn't... JERK: And this isn't my dunce cap. BEDEVERE: Well? VILLAGER #1: Well, we did do the dunce cap. BEDEVERE: The dunce cap? VILLAGER #1: And the suspenders and plaid pants, but he is a jerk! VILLAGER #2: Yeah! CROWD: We burn him! Right! Yeaaah! Yeaah! BEDEVERE: Did you dress him up like this? VILLAGER #1: No! VILLAGER #2 and 3: No. No. VILLAGER #2: No. VILLAGER #1: No. VILLAGERS #2 and #3: No. VILLAGER #1: Yes. VILLAGER #2: Yes. VILLAGER #1: Yes. Yeah, a bit. VILLAGER #3: A bit. VILLAGERS #1 and #2: A bit. VILLAGER #3: A bit. BEDEVERE: What makes you think he is a jerk? VILLAGER #3: Well, his email had a lot of capital letters and it badly hurt my eyes because it's hard to read. BEDEVERE: Your eyes don't look bad. VILLAGER #3: I got better. VILLAGER #2: Burn him anyway! VILLAGER #1: Burn! CROWD: Burn him! Burn! Burn him!... BEDEVERE: Quiet! Quiet! Quiet! Quiet! There are ways of telling whether he is a jerk. VILLAGER #1: Are there? VILLAGER #2: Ah? VILLAGER #1: What are they? CROWD: Tell us! Tell us!... BEDEVERE: Tell me. What do you do with jerks? VILLAGER #2: Burn! VILLAGER #1: Burn! CROWD: Burn! Burn them up! Burn!... BEDEVERE: And what do you burn apart from jerks? VILLAGER #1: More jerks! VILLAGER #3: Shh! VILLAGER #2: Wood! BEDEVERE: So, why do jerks burn? [pause] VILLAGER #3: B--... 'cause they're made of... wood? BEDEVERE: Good! Heh heh. CROWD: Oh, yeah. Oh. BEDEVERE: So, how do we tell whether he is made of wood? VILLAGER #1: Build a bridge out of him. BEDEVERE: Ah, but can you not also make bridges out of stone? VILLAGER #1: Oh, yeah. RANDOM: Oh, yeah. True. Uhh... BEDEVERE: Does wood sink in water? VILLAGER #1: No. No. VILLAGER #2: No, it floats! It floats! VILLAGER #1: Throw him into the pond! CROWD: The pond! Throw him into the pond! BEDEVERE: What also floats in water? VILLAGER #1: Bread! VILLAGER #2: Apples! VILLAGER #3: Uh, very small rocks! VILLAGER #1: Cider! VILLAGER #2: Uh, gra-- gravy! VILLAGER #1: Cherries! VILLAGER #2: Mud! VILLAGER #3: Uh, churches! Churches! VILLAGER #2: Lead! Lead! ARTHUR: A duck! CROWD: Oooh. BEDEVERE: Exactly. So, logically... VILLAGER #1: If... he... weighs... the same as a duck,... he's made of wood. BEDEVERE: And therefore? VILLAGER #2: A jerk! VILLAGER #1: A jerk! CROWD: A jerk! A jerk!... VILLAGER #4: Here is a duck. Use this duck. [quack quack quack] BEDEVERE: Very good. We shall use my largest scales. CROWD: Ohh! Ohh! Burn the jerk! Burn the jerk! Burn him! Burn him! Burn him! Burn him! Burn him! Burn him! Burn him! Ahh! Ahh... BEDEVERE: Right. Remove the supports! [whop] [clunk] [creak] :::: the scales balance, meaning he weighs the same as the duck :::: CROWD: A jerk! A jerk! A jerk! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 20:29:49 -0400 From: stumck@webtv.net (Stuart McKenney) Subject: USA Releases for these CDs? Hi -- does anyone know if Kasey Chambers "Wayward Angel" and Cranes "Particles And Waves" will be released in America? Thanks, Stuart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 21:34:16 -0400 From: Michael Curry Subject: Dresden Dolls across America (and in Canada and Germany too) Well, Lollapalooza may be dead, but it looks like some of you will have the chance to see the Dresden Dolls for yourself anyway. Note that there's a show in Germany, a couple in Canada, and then several more all across the U.S. Go see them! From http://www.dresdendolls.com August 7 Germany Haldern Festival August 11 Montreal, QC The Main Room 5390 Laurent St. Doors: 8:30 / Show: 9:00 Tickets: $13.50 Ages: 18+ Support: TBA August 12 Toronto, ON El Macambo 462 Spadina St. Doors: 9:00 / Show: 9:30 Tickets: $10 advanced / $12 Day of Show Ages: 19+ Support: TBA http://www.elmocambo.ca/ August 13 Detroit, MI Magic Stick 4140 Woodward Ave. Doors: 9:00 / Show: 10:00 Tickets: $8 Ages: 18+ Support: TBA http://www.majesticdetroit.com/stick.asp August 14 Chicago, IL Schubas 3159 N. Southport Doors: 7:00 / Show: 7:30 Tickets: $12 Ages: ALL AGES Support: TBA http://www.schubas.com/ August 15 Minneapolis, MN 7th Street Entry 701 First St. Doors: 5:00 / Show: 6:00 Tickets: $8 Ages: ALL AGES Support: TBA http://www.first-avenue.com August 17 San Diego, CA The Casbah 2501 Kettner Blvd. Doors: 8:00 / Show: 9:00 Tickets: $8 Ages: 21+ Support: TBA http://www.casbahmusic.com/ August 18 Los Angeles, CA Troubadour 9081 Santa Monica Blvd. Doors: 7:30 / Show: 8:00 Tickets: $10 Ages: ALL AGES Support: TBA http://www.troubadour.com/ August 20 San Francisco, CA Cafi Du Nord 2170 Market St. Doors: 7:00 / Show: 9:00 Tickets: $10 Ages: 18+ Support: TBA http://www.cafedunord.com/ August 22 Seattle, WA Crocodile Cafi 2200 2nd Ave. Doors: 6:00 / Show: 7:00 Tickets: $8 Ages: ALL AGES Support: TBA http://www.thecrocodile.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:37:33 -0700 From: Nadyne Mielke Subject: Re: USA Releases for these CDs? On 14 Jul 2004, at 17:29, Stuart McKenney wrote: > Hi -- does anyone know if Kasey Chambers "Wayward Angel" and Cranes > "Particles And Waves" will be released in America? Thanks, According to the official Kasey Chambers website , it will be released in North America by Warner Bros on 14 September. There's also tour info on her site; it looks like she'll be starting on the West Coast in November. (Remember, tour dates on the site are dd/mm/yy. :) (On a somewhat-related note, Paul Kelly has just launched a little acoustic tour of the US, UK, and Europe. His current album, _Ways and Means_, is fantastic, so I'm looking forward to seeing him live. More info is available at .) /nm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 18:42:31 -0700 From: Nadyne Mielke Subject: Re: One moment of your time On 14 Jul 2004, at 05:40, joe del tufo wrote: [snip] > Remember when Clear Channel banned John Lennon's "Imagine" from their > 1000+ stations after 9/11? Far be it for me to stick up for Clear Channel, but this is an urban legend: http://www.snopes.com/rumors/radio.htm /nm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:23:08 +1000 From: heidi maier Subject: Fwd: JOLIE HOLLAND, the JOY BUZZARDS play 'the palms'--Winters, CA July 20th i thought this might be of interest to some. now, if only she'd come to australia ... (story of my life!) heidi. - ----- Forwarded message from Jolie Holland's Mailing List. 20 July 04 - Palms Playhouse - - Winters, CA We'll have a full band including Dave Mihaly, Brian Miller, Ara Anderson, and Keith Cary-- Me and the band are thrilled to be sharing the stage with THE JOY BUZZARDS that's Keith Cary's band, the bass, mandolin and banjo player from 'Escondida' - ----- End forwarded message ----- ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V10 #196 ***************************