From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V10 #194 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Wednesday, July 14 2004 Volume 10 : Number 194 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: One moment of your time ["Eric Brown" ] Today's your birthday, friends... [Mike Matthews ] RE: One moment of your time [Ellen Rawson ] Re: One moment of your time [Russ Van Rooy ] finds [anna maria "stjärnell" ] Re: One moment of your time [forwardtcm@softhome.net] RE: One moment of your time ["Eric Brown" ] Re: ecto-digest V10 #193 [heidi maier ] Re: finds [burka@jeffrey.net] RE: One moment of your time [forwardtcm@softhome.net] Re: finds [tjshadb@voyuz.net (www)] Re: One moment of your time [forwardtcm@softhome.net] Re: One moment of your time [birdie ] RE: One moment of your time [Ellen Rawson ] Re: One moment of your time ["Robert Lovejoy" ] Re: One moment of your time ["Xenu's Sister" ] Re: One moment of your time [dmw ] Happy Rhodes T-shirts [Kosterhaudt@aol.com] Re: One moment of your time [birdie ] Re: One moment of your time ["Robert Lovejoy" ] Re: One moment of your time [birdie ] OT: Re: One moment of your time [Mike Connell ] RE: One moment of your time [Stefan Adler ] Re: OT: Re: One moment of your time [FAMarcus@aol.com] Re: OT: Re: One moment of your time ["Xenu's Sister" ] Re: One moment of your time [forwardtcm@softhome.net] Re: OT: Re: One moment of your time [Mike Connell ] Re: 1 moment.. [kerrywhite@webtv.net (kerry white)] Re: One moment of your time ["phclark" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 23:20:10 -0700 From: "Eric Brown" Subject: RE: One moment of your time Turn your paranoia meter down a bit. Somebody floated a trial balloon, and it's been shot down. Oh, wait. Bush = hitler. Right. Never mind. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ecto@smoe.org [mailto:owner-ecto@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Larne Pekowsky Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 3:30 PM To: ecto@smoe.org Subject: Re: One moment of your time Xenu's Sister wrote: > Please vote in November if you're an American. Assuming we're allowed to: http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/11/election.day.delay/index.html Officials discuss how to delay Election Day - Larne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 03:00:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike Matthews Subject: Today's your birthday, friends... i*i*i*i*i*i i*i*i*i*i*i *************** *****HAPPY********* **************BIRTHDAY********* *************************************************** *************************************************************************** **************** Marion Kippers (Marion.Kippers@zonnet.nl) **************** ******************** Ellen Rawson (silme13@yahoo.com) ********************* *************************************************************************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Marion Kippers Tue July 13 1965 Kreeft Ellen Rawson Thu July 13 1961 Double Cancer Mitch Pravatiner Mon July 14 1952 Cancer R. Rapp Wed July 14 1954 On a Gray Eye Sojourn John Zimmer Sun July 16 1961 Cancer Dan Stark Sun July 16 1961 Cancer Cathy Guetzlaff Mon July 18 1955 Cancer Vlad Sat July 18 1970 Warning: severe tire damage Jani Pinola Thu July 20 1972 Jonquil Alvin Brattli Sun July 27 1969 Lefthanded Christy Eger Smith Thu July 27 1944 Horse Crossing Shirley Ye July 27 Lioness woj Sun July 28 1968 children at play John Relph Sat July 28 1962 Leo Bob Kollmeyer Wed July 28 1971 Leo Steve Lusky Tue July 29 1952 Bike! Kate Bush Wed July 30 1958 God Chuck Smith Wed July 30 1958 Reboot Yves Denneulin Fri July 30 1971 Lion-Heart Joel Kenyon Wed July 31 1963 Leo Eli Brandt August 05 Leo Amanda Williams Tue August 05 1969 phoenix Martin Bridges Sat August 08 1970 BigGuy Rosana L. de Oliveira Wed August 08 1973 Leo Happy Rhodes Mon August 09 1965 HolyGhost - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 00:28:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Ellen Rawson Subject: RE: One moment of your time - --- Eric Brown wrote: > Turn your paranoia meter down a bit. Somebody > floated a trial balloon, and > it's been shot down. > > Oh, wait. Bush = hitler. Right. Never mind. Oops. Sent that reply only to Eric... To quote the Boondocks, Bush isn't Hitler. Hitler was democratically elected... ;) Ellen, who might get to see some live music once school ends next Thursday. Too many reports due, open evening etc. kept me from seeing Susan McKeown last month in London. Oh -- and Ellen who also is making sure she will be able to obtain a ballot for the November US presidential elections, assuming they're still held in November... ===== "Literature stops in 1100. After that, it's just books." - -- JRR Tolkien ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 00:19:16 -0700 From: Russ Van Rooy Subject: Re: One moment of your time If you are not enraged by Bush and his cronies antics, you're not paying attention.... Eric Brown wrote: >Turn your paranoia meter down a bit. Somebody floated a trial balloon, and >it's been shot down. > >Oh, wait. Bush = hitler. Right. Never mind. > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-ecto@smoe.org [mailto:owner-ecto@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Larne >Pekowsky >Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 3:30 PM >To: ecto@smoe.org >Subject: Re: One moment of your time > > >Xenu's Sister wrote: > > > >>Please vote in November if you're an American. >> >> > >Assuming we're allowed to: > >http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/11/election.day.delay/index.html >Officials discuss how to delay Election Day > > - Larne ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 03:55:47 -0700 (PDT) From: anna maria "stjärnell" Subject: finds hi.. some finds made in france.. perry blake-still life irish dandy reborn in paris..sounds like bowie meets david sylvian..very nice..he has three more cds in france and one in the uk. laurence revey stunnig electro-folk rom swiss singer.her labum features gabriel yacoub as a guest. lea delaria-double standrads jazz covers of patti smith, no doubt and the doors.. serious and not at all gimmicky..sounds a treat. she's american. anna maria site:revey.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 07:44:40 -0600 From: forwardtcm@softhome.net Subject: Re: One moment of your time > I know we have people of all political stripes here. I don't want to start > a fight. I don't want to be the cause of a flame war. I don't want to upset > anyone. I've been fiercely, vocally, rudely political elsewhere, but I > haven't said a word here. Then why start this bullcrap here? This is a MUSIC list, not a politics list. Plenty of folk here will be voting against Kerry this fall, so you're bound to stir up some stuff with this. Do you just need to vent? Do a search on Yahoo's Groups; I'm sure you can find some political groups there. --Doug ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 06:57:10 -0700 From: "Eric Brown" Subject: RE: One moment of your time I'm outraged by a lot of things, but I'm mostly amused at the Ecto Echo-chamber that only gets outraged when Republicans do things. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ecto@smoe.org [mailto:owner-ecto@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Russ Van Rooy Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 12:19 AM To: ecto@smoe.org Subject: Re: One moment of your time If you are not enraged by Bush and his cronies antics, you're not paying attention.... Eric Brown wrote: >Turn your paranoia meter down a bit. Somebody floated a trial balloon, >and it's been shot down. > >Oh, wait. Bush = hitler. Right. Never mind. > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-ecto@smoe.org [mailto:owner-ecto@smoe.org] On Behalf Of >Larne Pekowsky >Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 3:30 PM >To: ecto@smoe.org >Subject: Re: One moment of your time > > >Xenu's Sister wrote: > > > >>Please vote in November if you're an American. >> >> > >Assuming we're allowed to: > >http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/11/election.day.delay/index.html >Officials discuss how to delay Election Day > > - Larne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 00:16:44 +1000 From: heidi maier Subject: Re: ecto-digest V10 #193 troy wrote: > Yup, I'm at it again. My friend Megan Slankard is going to be on > Television this Friday (the 16th) on TLC's show "What Not to Wear". For > those that don't know the shows premises, friends & family nominate a > fashion victim for a $5,000 fashion makeover. i'm just curious -- is the show an american version of the british one, with trinny woodhall and susannah constantine? i always feel guilty for getting sucked into watching it ... but watch it i always do, nevertheless. i'll be damned if they don't always know what they're talking about! *g* they tried making an australian version but it was terrible terrible terrible. it's like when they try making australian or british versions of almost anything ("queer eye for the straight guy" is another prime example!) or american versions of a british show -- they just shouldn't do it. nine times out of ten the results are atrocious. haha. i hope your friend megan had fun, though! she's a brave soul. i'd be terrified! :) heidi. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 08:09:32 -0400 (EDT) From: burka@jeffrey.net Subject: Re: finds anna maria sez: > lea delaria-double standrads > jazz covers of patti smith, no doubt and the doors.. > serious and not at all gimmicky..sounds a treat. > she's american. Lea Delaria, as in the lesbian stand-up comic?! She can sing? Who knew?! That seems very wacky. I'm hoping she does a better job of it then, say, Rosie O'Donnell. jeff n.p. MWABT, Happy Rhodes n.r. _The Confusion_, Neal Stephenson (it's been about a month now, but I'd probably have finished it if I hadn't put it down so I could read King's _Song of Susannah_) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 09:45:24 -0600 From: forwardtcm@softhome.net Subject: RE: One moment of your time Indeed...I find it funny when people say that there is only one way to react or interpret things... --Doug >I'm outraged by a lot of things, but I'm mostly amused at the Ecto >Echo-chamber that only gets outraged when Republicans do things. >>If you are not enraged by Bush and his cronies antics, you're >>not paying attention.... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 08:34:45 -0700 (PDT) From: tjshadb@voyuz.net (www) Subject: Re: finds path.net> From: "Troy J Shadbolt" Bounce-To: "Troy J Shadbolt" Errors-To: "Troy J Shadbolt" Reply-To: "Troy J Shadbolt" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable lea delaria has released a couple of jazz albums. she gets almost as much attention for them in the SF bay area as she does for her drop-dead hilarious comedy routines. she's a classic jazz stylist. - -troy np: "wicked" soundtrack (because it was given to me to listen to.) On 7/13/2004, "burka@jeffrey.net" wrote: >anna maria sez: > >> lea delaria-double standrads >> jazz covers of patti smith, no doubt and the doors.. >> serious and not at all gimmicky..sounds a treat. >> she's american. > >Lea Delaria, as in the lesbian stand-up comic?! She can sing? >Who knew?! > >That seems very wacky. I'm hoping she does a better job of it >then, say, Rosie O'Donnell. > >jeff > >n.p. MWABT, Happy Rhodes >n.r. _The Confusion_, Neal Stephenson (it's been about a month >now, but I'd probably have finished it if I hadn't put it down so >I could read King's _Song of Susannah_) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 10:36:32 -0600 From: forwardtcm@softhome.net Subject: Re: One moment of your time >I don't find anything amusing or silly about a war. The war isn't amusing...the people who are closed minded about the "problem" are amusing. >Ask yourselves this... > >Do the children of Iraq - (who have lost parents or limbs - or >simply thier schools, etc etc etc due to the american invasion...) You think Saddam was better? You think decades of torture under Saddam is better than a short period of turmoil, prior to the establishment of a new, peaceful government? Saddam would have passed his rule onto his sons when he died, and they were worse than he is. Civilians get hurt in wars...period. War is bad, but some things are worse. Are you familiar with the concept of necessary evil? --Doug ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 09:08:34 -0700 From: birdie Subject: Re: One moment of your time I don't find anything amusing or silly about a war. Ask yourselves this... Do the children of Iraq - (who have lost parents or limbs - or simply thier schools, etc etc etc due to the american invasion...) Why shouldn't they compare Bush with Hitler? Huh? Let me get in some of your faces... Or, with arms and eyes and parents missing... Are they suppose to pat him on the back? What planet are you on??? My vote is with the children of Iraq. Go check them out....get your head out of your delusions. Bush is a monster. Birdie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 09:35:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Ellen Rawson Subject: RE: One moment of your time - --- forwardtcm@softhome.net wrote: > Indeed...I find it funny when people say that there > is only one way to react > or interpret things... Hmmm. So, let's talk Ecto politics. I hear Dar Williams was on (or will be on??) Air America recently... Perhaps we should talk about political lyrics, one way or another. ;) Ellen ===== "Literature stops in 1100. After that, it's just books." - -- JRR Tolkien ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 12:59:08 -0400 From: "Robert Lovejoy" Subject: Re: One moment of your time > You think Saddam was better? You think decades of torture under Saddam is > better than a short period of turmoil, prior to the establishment of a new, > peaceful government? Saddam would have passed his rule onto his sons when > he died, and they were worse than he is. Well, let's go fight in North Korea, then, as soon as we get this mess neatly tucked away. Never mind, they don't have any oil. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 13:50:39 -0500 From: "Xenu's Sister" Subject: Re: One moment of your time At 08:44 AM 7/13/2004, forwardtcm@softhome.net wrote: > Then why start this bullcrap here? Because I wanted to show how Happy's song fits in nicely with how people are slowly waking up to the horrors that Bush has caused. And, more importantly, I felt the need to show people in other countries who are on this list that not all Americans support Bush and his cowboy war. > This is a MUSIC list, not a politics list. It's mainly a music list, but since the very beginning people have mentioned/discussed whatever strikes their fancy, from movies to books to TV shows to politics. Not much politics, true, but it happens, usually once every 4 years. > Plenty of folk here will be voting against Kerry this fall, so you're bound to stir up some stuff with this. Not my problem. This country is in crisis. Upsetting some Republicans who should be embarrassed by this president is the least of my worries. Thanks to Bush, Cheney, and Ashcroft: ...the president may take away any person's freedom by labelling him an enemy combatant ...the president may imprison a person indefinitely, without charges and without counsel ...the president may direct the armed forces to invade any sovereign nation for any reason ...no law or treaty may constrain the president's treatment of prisoners in time of war ...the president is not subject to any law while he is acting as commander in chief ...the president may consolidate his powers as head of government with his powers as commander in chief such that both are privileged from interference by Congress ...the president may unilaterally declare a permanent state of war ...the president is authorized to define and enumerate our freedoms (plagiarism alert: I got that list from a message board. I didn't write it, but I agree with it) Forget Iraq, that's giving the president just a little too much power, IMO. No, I couldn't forget Iraq and wouldn't want to. There have been 880 military casualties so far in Iraq (http://icasualties.org/oif/) Over 10,000 civilian casualties so far in Iraq (http://www.iraqbodycount.net/) Ask those people and their families and friends if they're glad the Americans barged in to "help" the people of Iraq. That's a lot of dead people who wouldn't be dead if the president hadn't lied to us. We frittered away the good will and sympathy of most of the rest of the world (rather, threw it down, stomped on it, spit on it, peed on it, stomped some more, then laughed at it). We made sure our grandchildren will be paying for this administration's mistakes. We made sure the terrorists have *plenty* of recruits for years to come, and after the next terrorist attacks, who would blame the rest of the world if they said we brought it on ourselves? We did. > Do you just need to vent? No, I have other outlets to vent. I could go on about Bush's lies and destruction of American ideals, and his war all day, but here, I'm done now. (Except...) At 08:57 AM 7/13/2004, Eric Brown wrote: > I'm outraged by a lot of things, but I'm mostly amused at the Ecto Echo-chamber that only gets outraged when Republicans do things. The Democrats haven't started any wars recently. If Kerry happens to invade and occupy a sovereign nation, I'll be first in line to protest. To make this somewhat ectoish for everyone, on this website http://www.tbtmradio.com/geeklog/public_html/ are some good flash animations using great music. On the left side, click on "See More flash by Symbolman" and take a look at "Army of One." (it's not Bjork, but it's still good. They're all good). V ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:04:44 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Re: One moment of your time On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 forwardtcm@softhome.net wrote: > You think Saddam was better? You think decades of torture under Saddam is > better than a short period of turmoil, prior to the establishment of a new, > peaceful government? Saddam would have passed his rule onto his sons when > he died, and they were worse than he is. Great, you know the administration's party line. So why didn't the administration have any problems with instutionalized torture and repression in Iraq when it was expedient to consider Saddam Hussein an ally? Why does the US continue to enjoy favorable diplomatic relations with other nations with instutionalized torture and repression? And why do agents of the US torture and repress other human beings when they find it expedient to do so? I would have opposed this mess on any grounds, but I wouldn't have been quite as furious if the administration hadn't sought an imagined moral high ground at the cost of absurd level of hypocrisy. If the party line had been "we need to protect our fossil fuel interests, justify the military procurement budget, and salve the nation's ego by flexing our military might" at least GWB would have been the equivalent of the panhandler whose sign reads "why lie? I need crack." And oh yeah, what exactly does this have to do with music, after all? - -- a different doug the pathetic caverns: a zine - opinionated and eclectic reviews a studio - specializing in indie/rock/mobile/live/demo recording http://www.pathetic-caverns.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 18:43:51 -0400 From: Kosterhaudt@aol.com Subject: Happy Rhodes T-shirts Hi there everyone, The website has been updated and there are T-shirts for sale. Help us fund the completion of Happy's CD! Regards and thanks, Ken Osterhaudt Auntie Social Music www.auntiesocialmusic.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 13:01:29 -0700 From: birdie Subject: Re: One moment of your time Okay Ellen... My fave song of the past year... "Where is the Love" Black Eyed Peas What's wrong with the world, mama People livin' like they ain't got no mamas I think the whole world addicted to the drama Only attracted to things that'll bring you trauma Overseas, yeah, we try to stop terrorism But we still got terrorists here livin' In the USA, the big CIA The Bloods and The Crips and the KKK But if you only have love for your own race Then you only leave space to discriminate And to discriminate only generates hate And when you hate then you're bound to get irate, yeah Badness is what you demonstrate And that's exactly how anger works and operates Nigga, you gotta have love just to set it straight Take control of your mind and meditate Let your soul gravitate to the love, y'all, y'all People killin', people dyin' Children hurt and you hear them cryin' Can you practice what you preach And would you turn the other cheek Father, Father, Father help us Send us some guidance from above 'Cause people got me, got me questionin' Where is the love (Love) Where is the love (The love) Where is the love (The love) Where is the love The love, the love It just ain't the same, always unchanged New days are strange, is the world insane If love and peace is so strong Why are there pieces of love that don't belong Nations droppin' bombs Chemical gasses fillin' lungs of little ones With the ongoin' sufferin' as the youth die young So ask yourself is the lovin' really gone So I could ask myself really what is goin' wrong In this world that we livin' in people keep on givin' in Makin' wrong decisions, only visions of them dividends Not respectin' each other, deny thy brother A war is goin' on but the reason's undercover The truth is kept secret, it's swept under the rug If you never know truth then you never know love Where's the love, y'all, come on (I don't know) Where's the truth, y'all, come on (I don't know) Where's the love, y'all People killin', people dyin' Children hurt and you hear them cryin' Can you practice what you preach And would you turn the other cheek Father, Father, Father help us Send us some guidance from above 'Cause people got me, got me questionin' Where is the love (Love) Where is the love (The love) Where is the love (The love) Where is the love The love, the love I feel the weight of the world on my shoulder As I'm gettin' older, y'all, people gets colder Most of us only care about money makin' Selfishness got us followin' in the wrong direction Wrong information always shown by the media Negative images is the main criteria Infecting the young minds faster than bacteria Kids wanna act like what they see in the cinema Yo', whatever happened to the values of humanity Whatever happened to the fairness in equality Instead in spreading love we spreading animosity Lack of understanding, leading lives away from unity That's the reason why sometimes I'm feelin' under That's the reason why sometimes I'm feelin' down There's no wonder why sometimes I'm feelin' under Gotta keep my faith alive till love is found People killin', people dyin' Children hurt and you hear them cryin' Can you practice what you preach And would you turn the other cheek Father, Father, Father help us Send us some guidance from above 'Cause people got me, got me questionin' Where is the love (Love) Where is the love (The love) Where is the love (The love) Where is the love (The love) Where is the love (The love) Where is the love (The love) Where is the love (The love) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 22:00:26 -0400 From: "Robert Lovejoy" Subject: Re: One moment of your time > And oh yeah, what exactly does this have to do with music, after > all? > > -- a different doug I was waiting for this! This is the administration that supports one or two huge corporations being able to buy all the media in any given market. That means less exposure for bands who aren't going to fill arenas. That means less diversity in what we as a nation are exposed to not only in music but in information. Companies like Clear Channel are deeply conservative and, allowed to operate without competition as this administration supports, would inhibit the dissemination of creative ideas that do not fit their views. It has everything to do with music. - --the same bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 13:05:12 -0700 From: birdie Subject: Re: One moment of your time Doug... People who are into war - are into getting their asses kicked. That's the necessary part. There is nothing evil about it It's just plain stupidity. Have an enlightening day Try not to get your ass kicked. Birdie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 17:39:56 -0400 From: Mike Connell Subject: OT: Re: One moment of your time > > Plenty of folk here will be voting against Kerry this fall, so you're > bound to stir up some stuff with this. > >Not my problem. This country is in crisis. Upsetting some Republicans who >should be embarrassed by this president is the least of my worries. Yes, it IS your problem! You had ZERO business stirring this up on a list like this. It's one thing to point out the lyrics as you said, but you went WAY WAY WAY beyond that with your diatribes. THIS IS A FREAKING MUSIC LIST!! KEEP THE D*MN OFF-TOPIC POLITICS OFF OF IT!!!! Again, when discussing it within the points of the artists (Happy) lyrics, there is a fine line you and each of us have to walk. Outside of that, it's proper nettiquette for any main-topic mailing list to keep the hot-button issues off. It's the main reason I outlaw politics, abortion, gay marriages and other hot/controversial issues off my two smoe lists unless the topic deals directly with the artists lyrics and at times statements they make. Some call that censorship, but that take is BS. It's keeping some control and not making waves.Many more thank me for outlawing such talk. People are there to discuss music and the artist. There are proper places to point out and discuss what you chose to discuss. This is not such a place. Sorry, you made bad move. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:26:39 +0200 From: Stefan Adler Subject: RE: One moment of your time But you shouldn't forget who helped Hussein becoming dictator of Iraq and who financed and equipped him and gave him all the necessary logistic like satellite images to bomb Iranians with his poison gas. There's a little music clip which talks about this side of the story: http://www.bushflash.com/thanks.html The idea behind working *with* dictators like Hussein, Suharto, Duvalier or Marcos is comprehensibly explained in the book "What Uncle Sam Really Wants" by Noam Chomsky. It's by far not so detailed as "Manufacturing Consent", but it really does explain a lot of what was going on during the past decades and what is being continued by Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ecto@smoe.org [mailto:owner-ecto@smoe.org] On Behalf Of forwardtcm@softhome.net Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 5:37 PM To: Ecto Subject: Re: One moment of your time >I don't find anything amusing or silly about a war. The war isn't amusing...the people who are closed minded about the "problem" are amusing. >Ask yourselves this... > >Do the children of Iraq - (who have lost parents or limbs - or >simply thier schools, etc etc etc due to the american invasion...) You think Saddam was better? You think decades of torture under Saddam is better than a short period of turmoil, prior to the establishment of a new, peaceful government? Saddam would have passed his rule onto his sons when he died, and they were worse than he is. Civilians get hurt in wars...period. War is bad, but some things are worse. Are you familiar with the concept of necessary evil? --Doug ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 22:35:17 EDT From: FAMarcus@aol.com Subject: Re: OT: Re: One moment of your time In a message dated 7/13/04 10:22:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ducksoup@quackquack.net writes: It's the main reason I outlaw politics, abortion, gay marriages and other hot/controversial issues off my two smoe lists unless the topic deals directly with the artists lyrics and at times statements they make. Some call that censorship, but that take is BS. It's keeping some control and not making waves.Many more thank me for outlawing such talk hey mike.......is this your list too? you took it over did you? the easiest way to voice your disapproval is to delete anything with the thread you disaprove of in the heading. the people that want to talk about it can. i've been on this list a long time myself. i know how to use the delete button. and this list has always had varied topics. you want to start another list about happy...........you do that and outlaw anything you want. vickie and i have had our disagreements in the past but the last thing i would want to do is censor what she has to say. by the way genius........shes been here since day one. heil hitler mike delete this if you want. frederick marcus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 18:41:59 -0500 From: "Xenu's Sister" Subject: Re: OT: Re: One moment of your time At 04:39 PM 7/13/2004, Mike wrote: >Yes, it IS your problem! You had ZERO business stirring this up on a list >like this. > >It's one thing to point out the lyrics as you said, but you went WAY WAY >WAY beyond that with your diatribes. > >THIS IS A FREAKING MUSIC LIST!! KEEP THE D*MN OFF-TOPIC POLITICS OFF OF IT!!!! Don't yell at me. I have every right to post anything I want on this list. I got rather heated in my personal e-mail to you, but I wanted to say to the group that I'm sorry if people are upset. What's happening in this country should upset all American citizens. I'm not going to go on, post after post after post, so don't worry. The only other thing I wanted to post right now is a link to one of the finest speeches I've ever heard. Where was this guy in 2000? http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0624-15.htm (text) http://nmmstream.net:8080/ramgen/acs/240604/gore.rm (video) That's it. Vickie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 13:47:33 -0600 From: forwardtcm@softhome.net Subject: Re: One moment of your time > Not my problem. This country is in crisis. It is? Wow, I didn't know and couldn't tell. Thanks for the heads-up. >Upsetting some Republicans who > should be embarrassed by this president is the least of my worries. What about upsetting the Democrats who'd rather discuss music? > Thanks to Bush, Cheney, and Ashcroft: > > ...the president may take away any person's freedom by labelling him an > enemy combatant The Constitution doesn't apply to non-citizens. > ...the president may imprison a person indefinitely, without charges and > without counsel Even citizens? And can you name one? > ...the president may direct the armed forces to invade any sovereign nation > for any reason Presidents have always had this power. Kennedy could have done it, Carter could have, and so could Clinton. LBJ, a Democrat, *did* do it, as I recall. > ...no law or treaty may constrain the president's treatment of prisoners in > time of war When was the last time a President administered treatment to a POW? ;-D Seriously, there is a difference between POW and enemy combatant. Admittedly it's a flimsy distinction, but it's there. > ...the president is not subject to any law while he is acting as commander > in chief So if Bush poisoned Kerry's drink he wouldn't be arrested? Are you serious? > ...the president may consolidate his powers as head of government with his > powers as commander in chief such that both are privileged from > interference by Congress If this is true, how is it unique to W? > ...the president may unilaterally declare a permanent state of war Only Congress may formally declare war. > ...the president is authorized to define and enumerate our freedoms Wrong. More to the point, how has Bush done this? > (plagiarism alert: I got that list from a message board. I didn't write it, > but I agree with it) You might want to check the facts behind what you agree with...some things might sound good even though they are full of logical and factual holes. > That's a lot of dead > people who wouldn't be dead if the president hadn't lied to us. Answer me this: Before we went into Iraq, were you a supporter of W? Or did you favor Gore (and Dems in general) back in 2000? > frittered away the good will and sympathy of most of the rest of the world France had a financial vested interest in maintaining the status quo in Iraq. They weren't disinterested humanitarians. > We made sure the terrorists have > *plenty* of recruits for years to come, Seems to me that there were plenty before Bush, and will be plenty after Bush, despite him. Hatred of "the Great Satan" needs no help from what we actually do. We're the big dog on the planet...of course they'd be gunning for us anyway. > > I'm outraged by a lot of things, but I'm mostly amused at the Ecto > Echo-chamber that only gets outraged when Republicans do things. > > The Democrats haven't started any wars recently. If Kerry happens to invade > and occupy a sovereign nation, I'll be first in line to protest. Did you protest when Clinton bombed an aspirin factory in an effort to distract the American public from his sexual entanglements? Or were you too busy defending his right to on-the-job-knob-gobbling? I'm sincerely interested in your answer. --Doug ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:05:10 -0400 From: Mike Connell Subject: Re: OT: Re: One moment of your time >and this list has always had varied topics. You are right, no question about it. Even the info-file for this list welcomes political talk. It's just what set me off was the statement: "I don't want to start a fight. I don't want to be the cause of a flame war. I don't want to upset anyone" Well duh...what was expected then? Did she really expect otherwise? Done with this matter also, Mike ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:10:15 -0400 From: Jeffrey Burka Subject: Re: OT: Re: One moment of your time Mike Connell spewed: > Yes, it IS your problem! You had ZERO business stirring this up on a > list like this. Blah, blah, blah. Get over it. For over 13 years this mailing list has gotten along just fine with the occasional non-musical subject coming up. > It's one thing to point out the lyrics as you said, but you went WAY WAY > WAY beyond that with your diatribes. I'd like to point out that in her initial post on this subject, Vickie didn't actually endorse a candidate; after the lyrics to "Waking Up," she exhorted people to vote in November. Sounded pretty damned reasonable to me. > Again, when discussing it within the points of the artists (Happy) > lyrics, there is a fine line you and each of us have to walk. Outside > of that, it's proper nettiquette for any main-topic mailing list to keep > the hot-button issues off. We've had plenty of hot-button issues over the years. We've always stayed civil. jeff ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 17:19:13 -0400 From: kerrywhite@webtv.net (kerry white) Subject: Re: 1 moment.. Hi, All I know is I was shown a bushel of apples and was told, "these are the reasons we need to unilaterally strike first". Now that we are there I am shown a bushel of oranges and am told, "See, see we told you these were the reasons!" My biggest problem with Bush is his impetuousness and his belief that God is on his side. He has admitted that he thought God wanted him to be President. If he sees that as a mandate we are all in for a lot of trouble. bye, ps: I bought new (to me) Joan Armatrading LOVE SONGS and find it to be a typically wonderful CD. KrW I'm Peter Pan! I'm perpetually young!! OW!! What's wrong with my back? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:04:43 -0700 From: "phclark" Subject: Re: One moment of your time Children, children... Peter C -= High Performance Analogue =- www.redpoint-audio-design.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Xenu's Sister" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 11:50 AM Subject: Re: One moment of your time > At 08:44 AM 7/13/2004, forwardtcm@softhome.net wrote: > > > Then why start this bullcrap here? > > Because I wanted to show how Happy's song fits in nicely with how people > are slowly waking up to the horrors that Bush has caused. And, more > importantly, I felt the need to show people in other countries who are on > this list that not all Americans support Bush and his cowboy war. > > > This is a MUSIC list, not a politics list. > > It's mainly a music list, but since the very beginning people have > mentioned/discussed whatever strikes their fancy, from movies to books to > TV shows to politics. Not much politics, true, but it happens, usually once > every 4 years. > > > Plenty of folk here will be voting against Kerry this fall, so you're > bound to stir up some stuff with this. > > Not my problem. This country is in crisis. Upsetting some Republicans who > should be embarrassed by this president is the least of my worries. > > Thanks to Bush, Cheney, and Ashcroft: > > ...the president may take away any person's freedom by labelling him an > enemy combatant > ...the president may imprison a person indefinitely, without charges and > without counsel > ...the president may direct the armed forces to invade any sovereign nation > for any reason > ...no law or treaty may constrain the president's treatment of prisoners in > time of war > ...the president is not subject to any law while he is acting as commander > in chief > ...the president may consolidate his powers as head of government with his > powers as commander in chief such that both are privileged from > interference by Congress > ...the president may unilaterally declare a permanent state of war > ...the president is authorized to define and enumerate our freedoms > > (plagiarism alert: I got that list from a message board. I didn't write it, > but I agree with it) > > Forget Iraq, that's giving the president just a little too much power, IMO. > > No, I couldn't forget Iraq and wouldn't want to. > > There have been 880 military casualties so far in Iraq > (http://icasualties.org/oif/) > Over 10,000 civilian casualties so far in Iraq (http://www.iraqbodycount.net/) > > Ask those people and their families and friends if they're glad the > Americans barged in to "help" the people of Iraq. That's a lot of dead > people who wouldn't be dead if the president hadn't lied to us. We > frittered away the good will and sympathy of most of the rest of the world > (rather, threw it down, stomped on it, spit on it, peed on it, stomped some > more, then laughed at it). We made sure our grandchildren will be paying > for this administration's mistakes. We made sure the terrorists have > *plenty* of recruits for years to come, and after the next terrorist > attacks, who would blame the rest of the world if they said we brought it > on ourselves? We did. > > > Do you just need to vent? > > No, I have other outlets to vent. I could go on about Bush's lies and > destruction of American ideals, and his war all day, but here, I'm done now. > > (Except...) > > At 08:57 AM 7/13/2004, Eric Brown wrote: > > > I'm outraged by a lot of things, but I'm mostly amused at the Ecto > Echo-chamber that only gets outraged when Republicans do things. > > The Democrats haven't started any wars recently. If Kerry happens to invade > and occupy a sovereign nation, I'll be first in line to protest. > > > To make this somewhat ectoish for everyone, on this website > http://www.tbtmradio.com/geeklog/public_html/ > are some good flash animations using great music. On the left side, click > on "See More flash by Symbolman" and take a look at "Army of One." (it's > not Bjork, but it's still good. They're all good). > > V ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V10 #194 ***************************