From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V10 #39 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Monday, February 9 2004 Volume 10 : Number 039 Today's Subjects: ----------------- mp3 abc ["Adam K." ] American Mavericks series [Valerie Richardson ] Re: mp3 abc ["Wade Alberty" ] MP3s? ["Wade Alberty" ] Re: MP3s? [Joshua Burnett ] OT: clip of HILARIOUS American Idol audition ["Mike Connell" ] Re: MP3s? [Joshua Burnett ] Re: Garmarna live [neal copperman ] Re: MP3s? [meredith ] Re: MP3s? [Nadyne Mielke ] Kathleen Yearwood in Vancouver [Neile Graham ] Re: MP3s? ["Wade Alberty" ] Re: MP3s? ["Wade Alberty" ] mp3 abc [Steve VanDevender ] Re: mp3 abc [Steve VanDevender ] Re: mp3 abc ["Wade Alberty" ] Re: mp3 abc [Steve VanDevender ] Re: MP3s? [andrew fries ] Re: MP3s? [Nadyne Mielke ] Re: MP3s? ["Wade Alberty" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 09:00:05 -0000 From: "Adam K." Subject: mp3 abc Can someone point me in the direction of a helpful "idiot's guide"-type primer site regarding mp3's, please? Now that I hve broadband (for however long I have it) I'd really like to explore these, but so far the more I find out the less I seem to know or understand. I know Nadyne pointed me in the direction of LAME some time ago (and for that I am grateful, Nadyne) but --- as usual -- I had no idea what it was on about, not a word. yeah, I'm that stupid. many thanks, adam k. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 10:11:58 -0500 From: Valerie Richardson Subject: American Mavericks series I don't know if it has been mentioned here or not, but Suzanne Vega is hosting a thirteen-part radio series called "American Mavericks" about the iconoclasts who have shaped the history of American music. In the NYC area, the program is heard on the two WNYC stations at 4 p.m. on 93.9 FM and at 8 PM on 820 AM. The shows are also webcast at these times. Locally, the series is on week 3, "Modernism vs. Populism." Some of the musicians featured on the show include Charles Ives, Steve Reich, and Laurie Anderson. The show obviously seems to be focusing on the iconoclasts in the classical end of music rather than those in blues and jazz. You can see more about the series, including links to related music streams (one "smooth," one "crunchy"), at http://www.musicmavericks.org - --Valerie Richardson ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 10:57:02 -0600 From: "Wade Alberty" Subject: Re: mp3 abc There is a great guide on how to make GREAT mp3s at: http://www.ubernet.org/ Basically it is a method for perfect extraction from the CD, and encoding with LAME for the best quality. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam K." To: "Ecto" Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 3:00 AM Subject: mp3 abc > Can someone point me in the direction of a helpful "idiot's guide"-type > primer site regarding mp3's, please? Now that I hve broadband (for however > long I have it) I'd really like to explore these, but so far the more I > find out the less I seem to know or understand. I know Nadyne pointed me in > the direction of LAME some time ago (and for that I am grateful, Nadyne) > but --- as usual -- I had no idea what it was on about, not a word. > > yeah, I'm that stupid. > > many thanks, > > adam k. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 11:10:06 -0600 From: "Wade Alberty" Subject: MP3s? Sorry in advance if this is a question that has been hashed over before, but I was just wondering what everyone's take was on MP3s and P2P Music trading? I personally see MP3s, and free music trading as a huge tool for artist. The invention of Napster was the greatest thing to ever happen for me musically. My CD buying habits have at least trippled since I have been able to download music and try it out online. My CD collection has exploded from around 200 CDs in 1999, to around 900 today. (I started buying CDs in 1988) Considering the sad state of radio in the majority of the US, mp3s are the only way to get exposed to much of the new and wonderful music that is out there. I don't think MP3s can replace CDs. I love to own the CD. You don't get the art work, and liner notes in a download, and you also don't have the physical product. That being said, I think services like iTunes are a very big ripoff. They treat customers more like criminals, allowing only a certain number of computers or devices to be used to listen to a song you purchased. And at $1 a track, with very limited overhead, they are making more money than they would with a CD, but often the artist isn't seeing any of the additional profit. Anyway, I would love to hear others views and opinions on this topic. I find it extremely interesting, and something that will probably have a big part in shaping music as we know it and will know it in the future. Wade ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 12:42:03 -0500 From: Joshua Burnett Subject: Re: MP3s? On Feb 8, 2004, at 12:10 PM, Wade Alberty wrote: > That being said, I think services like iTunes are a very big ripoff. > They > treat customers more like criminals, allowing only a certain number of > computers or devices to be used to listen to a song you purchased. And > at $1 > a track, with very limited overhead, they are making more money than > they > would with a CD, but often the artist isn't seeing any of the > additional > profit. Actually, ethics aside, Apple hasn't made any real money with iTunes, and the profit margins for Apple and other companies doing paid downloads are supposedly very slim. It's mainly been a tool to help them sell more iPods, rather than a revenue generator in and of itself. josh. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 14:05:54 -0400 From: "Mike Connell" Subject: OT: clip of HILARIOUS American Idol audition This was posted on one of my lists. Even if you absolutely hate the concept of American Idol, by all means check this out. Its flat out hilarious... probably the all-time funniest audition on this show. You wont be disappointed. - Mike :-) > I found this link if any of you are interested. :) > It's of the guy that sang the Ricky Martin song in the auditions for American > Idol. I couldn't open this link direct (it could be my computer) so if it > doesn't work for you also, open windows media player, go to file, then "open > url" and copy and paste this link into that space (the way you would with the >media on Jewel:Unedited). > http://home.comcast.net/~dhliu/shebangs.wmv ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 12:06:12 -0600 From: "Wade Alberty" Subject: Re: MP3s? I find that somewhat hard to believe. Especially considering other companies are running to get into the mix of selling music online. There has to be good profit there, or no one would want to do it. There is some good info on iTunes here: http://www.downhillbattle.org/itunes/index.html Also, for some more good info on this and the RIAA, and other such "problems" with the music biz, check out: http://www.boycott-riaa.com *look under the "Facts" section for some great info. http://www.downhillbattle.org/ > > Actually, ethics aside, Apple hasn't made any real money with iTunes, > and the profit margins for Apple and other companies doing paid > downloads are supposedly very slim. It's mainly been a tool to help > them sell more iPods, rather than a revenue generator in and of itself. > > josh. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 13:34:37 -0500 From: Joshua Burnett Subject: Re: MP3s? On Feb 8, 2004, at 1:06 PM, Wade Alberty wrote: > I find that somewhat hard to believe. Especially considering other > companies > are running to get into the mix of selling music online. There has to > be > good profit there, or no one would want to do it. Being a Mac user, I've seen this discussed a lot on Mac sites, and pretty much everyone (including Apple themselves) seems to agree that online music sales in themselves aren't going to rake in a ton of money for the company doing the selling. But I've also heard that, since the iTunes Store launched, sales of iPods have doubled. So that's why it's worthwhile for Apple. As for other companies wanting to get in, well, it wouldn't be the first time that everyone wanted to get into a new tech fad even though it didn't have a realistic profit model. Here's an article I found after some quick Googling: http://news.com.com/2100-1041-5092559.html?tag=nl It's a few months a bit out of date, but I doubt that much has changed in the fundamentals of the business. > There is some good info on iTunes here: > http://www.downhillbattle.org/itunes/index.html I've seen the downhill battle site before, and honestly, they come across to me as self-righteous hypocrites. I mean, the slam iTunes for not giving "enough" to artists...and then encourage folks to get their music through P2P services. I'm not going to get into the ethics of P2P, because that's a whole can o' worms, but personally, I'd rather use a service that gives *something* to artists that a service that gives none. I do agree with you, though, that I don't want to see online music replace CDs entirely. If there's one song I want off an album, I'll go through iTunes, and I've bought some exclusive tracks through iTunes as well, but if I want an entire album, I'd much rather get the album itself. josh. http://notgoingtostop.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 14:58:12 -0700 From: neal copperman Subject: Re: Garmarna live At 8:10 PM -0500 2/6/04, meredith wrote: >Are you asking because you have an opportunity to see them? If you >can, *go*. You won't be disappointed. Actually, if I had a chance to see them, I wouldn't need any encouragement! i'd just be there. Surprisingly, there is some chance that I might be able to bring them to New Mexico for a concert. But I need to convince some other people to help me, and since I haven't seen them live, I wanted to have a sense of what I was pushing for. Wish me luck! neal np: French Windows - Sonny Condell ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 17:50:49 -0500 From: meredith Subject: Re: MP3s? Hi, Wade wondered: >Sorry in advance if this is a question that has been hashed over before, but >I was just wondering what everyone's take was on MP3s and P2P Music trading? Aieeeeee!!!!!!!!! Run away!!!!!!!!!!! Ok, I'm ready now. :} (Yes, Wade, this has been brought up several times before ... can you say "hot button topic"? :}) =============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth =============================================== Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://muzak.smoe.org =============================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 17:27:06 -0800 From: Nadyne Mielke Subject: Re: MP3s? On Sunday, February 8, 2004, at 09:10 AM, Wade Alberty wrote: > Sorry in advance if this is a question that has been hashed over > before, but > I was just wondering what everyone's take was on MP3s and P2P Music > trading? If you ever take a look at my Mac, you'll see that I have something short of 25 GB of music. I have an iPod [0] that I use daily. So I'm pretty clearly a user of them. Outside of my own [legal, I own the album] use of MP3s[1], I use them to introduce friends to new music, and get MP3s from friends so they can introduce me to other music. Since the iTunes Music Store was made available in the US, I've been doing this less. When someone tells me, 'hey, check out this artist', I first fire up iTunes to see if they're represented there. If they are, I check out the samples hosted there. If I like what I hear from the samples, I buy a couple of 99-cent songs. If I like the songs that I've bought, I acquire the CD. (And when I acquire the CD, I encode it so I can listen to it on my iPod, which pretty much completes the cycle.) There are some times when I still have to fire up Limewire. Those times are increasingly few and far between. The iTunes Music Store has been doing a fantastic push to get more artists represented there, and a lot of independent labels have responded and made quite a lot of outside-the-mainstream material available. [snip] > That being said, I think services like iTunes are a very big ripoff. > They > treat customers more like criminals, allowing only a certain number of > computers or devices to be used to listen to a song you purchased. And > at $1 > a track, with very limited overhead, they are making more money than > they > would with a CD, but often the artist isn't seeing any of the > additional > profit. I'm not sure what you think 'limited overhead' is, but bandwidth Ain't Cheap. 24/7 availability Ain't Cheap. Storing hundreds of thousands of songs Ain't Cheap. (I'm amused that the downhillbattle.org page that you cited points to mp3.com, which is now defunct and was never able to pay for its own expenses, as an example.) They take 35 cents out of every dollar they make. (I'd certainly be very happy if, say, Atlantic Records were so up-front with how much they're skimming off of the cost of a CD, wouldn't you?) Apple isn't making money from the iTunes Music Store; they're largely using it as a method for them to sell more iPods. Their example of how iTunes could work ignores the real world. For an artist that is already signed with a record label, they're not going to have the rights to make their albums available via another method such as iTunes. A new artist could do this, yes, but what happens for everyone else? And that's ignoring how Apple is supposed to confirm that an artist that signs up with them actually owns the copyright (what happens if I say 'hey, yeah, I have the rights to these albums' and then put up all of Happy's albums?), or what happens if consumers don't bother with iTunes because they think it's unreliable when they try to download a song and can't because that band went over their bandwidth limits, or that processing of a credit card will eat up the proposed 3% commission. Personally, I don't buy whole albums from the iTunes Music Store. I like having the real thing, even though increasingly my CDs are simply used for archival purposes. I buy individual tracks when I'm not interested in the whole album. I buy their exclusive tracks, which are made available to iTunes by the artist and are unavailable elsewhere. They do pre-release tracks, too: if you just couldn't wait for the Indigo Girls' next album, you can go there and spend a buck to be able to listen to the first song off of it. I like that Apple is doing some other interesting things with the iTunes Music Store. The Thrills, with the support of Bay Area radio station KFOG, recently released an EP through iTunes. It's a live recording that they recently recorded here in the Bay. They recorded it, and had it available for sale two days later on iTunes. Five tracks, five bucks, and entirely unavailable elsewhere. I'm not particularly a fan of the band themselves, but I really like this little venture. I'd like to see other bands follow suit. /nm [0] And I adore it. 20 GB of music, 10 hours of battery life, about the same size as a pack of cards ... what more does a highly mobile geekgirl need? [1] Anything that I rip these days is to AAC, which is the next generation of MP3. But, because I'm lazy, I'm just going to use MP3 to mean 'a music file that's been encoded using a lossy codec'. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 18:57:02 -0800 From: Neile Graham Subject: Kathleen Yearwood in Vancouver For our Vancouver, BC ectophiles: >To: ectoguide@smoe.org >Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 23:00:49 -0700 >From: "Kathleen Anna Yearwood" > >February 20th Doors at 8pm. Show at 9pm. >All Ages. benefit for the Anti-Poverty Committee >Kathleen Yearwood >Harrow >Sylo >and guests >5-10$ sliding scale, no one turned away >At the : >Underware Farm >1127 E.hastings. in the lane. >wheelchair accessible. > >Part of the Refuse to Retreat Conference >February 21-22 >For more info: >PH: 604-682-2726 apc@resist. > >February 21th Doors at 7:30pm. Show at 9pm. >All Ages. benefit for the Anti-Poverty Committee >Flying Folk Army >Kathleen Yearwood >MC ehawk >DJ's ...... Dance party. >5-10$ sliding scale, no one turned away >At the : >Underware Farm >1127 E.hastings. in the lane. >wheelchair accessible. > >Part of the Refuse to Retreat Conference >February 21-22 >For more info: >PH: 604-682-2726 apc@resist. >--- >Box 325 Vilna, >Alberta T0A 3L0 >Canada > > > >____________________________________________________________ >Get 25MB of email storage with Lycos Mail Plus! >Sign up today -- http://www.mail.lycos.com/brandPage.shtml?pageId=plus - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Neile Graham .... neile@sff.net/@drizzle.com ... www.sff.net/people/neile Les Semaines: A Weekly Journal ........ www.sff.net/people/neile/semaines Editor, The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music ........... www.ectoguide.org Workshop Administrator, Clarion West ................ www.clarionwest.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 21:16:03 -0600 From: "Wade Alberty" Subject: Re: MP3s? Good! I like hot topics! :-) And I enjoy hearing various opinions on this topic, because I feel at this point there are no wrong opinions. I do feel that change is a blowin', when it comes to the music industry, and I see it as positive change with things like MP3s and p2p file sharing being the catalyst for much of it. (At least that is my hope.) I think if that does happen it will benefit the artist more, especailly the smaller and independent artists. I even have such high hopes as someday radio stations will play music based on the fact it is good, not due to the fact they are getting paid to. I have high hopes for the somewhat near future....I just hope I am right. :-) Wade - ----- Original Message ----- From: "meredith" To: Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 4:50 PM Subject: Re: MP3s? > Hi, > > Wade wondered: > > >Sorry in advance if this is a question that has been hashed over before, but > >I was just wondering what everyone's take was on MP3s and P2P Music trading? > > Aieeeeee!!!!!!!!! Run away!!!!!!!!!!! > > > > Ok, I'm ready now. :} > > (Yes, Wade, this has been brought up several times before ... can you say > "hot button topic"? :}) > > > =============================================== > Meredith Tarr > New Haven, CT USA > mailto:meth@smoe.org > http://www.smoe.org/meth > =============================================== > Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series > http://muzak.smoe.org > =============================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 22:08:13 -0600 From: "Wade Alberty" Subject: Re: MP3s? - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nadyne Mielke" To: "Ecto" Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 7:27 PM Subject: Re: MP3s? (snip) > If you ever take a look at my Mac, you'll see that I have something > short of 25 GB of music. I have an iPod [0] that I use daily. So I'm > pretty clearly a user of them. Outside of my own [legal, I own the > album] use of MP3s[1], I use them to introduce friends to new music, > and get MP3s from friends so they can introduce me to other music. I think this is part of the beauty of MP3s, the ease it is to discover new music and to share music with friends and family. [snip] > I'm not sure what you think 'limited overhead' is, but bandwidth Ain't > Cheap. 24/7 availability Ain't Cheap. Storing hundreds of thousands > of songs Ain't Cheap. (I'm amused that the downhillbattle.org page > that you cited points to mp3.com, which is now defunct and was never > able to pay for its own expenses, as an example.) They take 35 cents > out of every dollar they make. (I'd certainly be very happy if, say, > Atlantic Records were so up-front with how much they're skimming off of > the cost of a CD, wouldn't you?) Apple isn't making money from the > iTunes Music Store; they're largely using it as a method for them to > sell more iPods. In the big picture iTunes have very little overhead. Bandwidth isn't that expensive, plus you pay for the connection, not the amount used in their case. And storage for MP3/AAC files doesn't cost much at all, especially when you compare all of this to a brick&mortar store that could sell the same music. If a B&M store like Best Buy could get away with charging $1 a song, and not having to support a hundreds of stores and employess, and not have to give you a physical product, I am sure their profits would greatly increase. Running an internet business has many benefits over a B&M store, especially if you are not selling a physical product. Also, just the price of $1 per song seems very steep to me. If songs were $.15-.50 that would seem more reasonable, considering there in no physical product involved. There has been only one pay-per-download music service that I have to be respectable, that is Bleep ( http://www.warprecords.com/bleep/ ) They offer true MP3 files, taken from the masters, and use the LAME alt preset method, which gives you an Extremely good quality MP3. They don't have any of the digital music rights stuff in the music to prevent you from playing it on X number of computers or devices. Basically, they treat their customers like, well customers. Also, most of the stuff they are offering currently is very rare. I personally don't listen to any of the music they offer, but I have friends that are downloading rips of rare CDs, that are worth $100+, for $10 an album. (snip) > ...I buy their exclusive tracks, which are > made available to iTunes by the artist and are unavailable elsewhere. > They do pre-release tracks, too: if you just couldn't wait for the > Indigo Girls' next album, you can go there and spend a buck to be able > to listen to the first song off of it. The exclusive albums, and other songs like that are very cool, but I still have this issue with not getting a physical product, and knowing that I am getting something that is "less than CD quality." There are some Gustar recordings offered exclusively on iTunes that I would love to have, but I just can't bring myself to downloading them, simply due to the fact I want a physical product, and AAC is less than CD quality. (snip) > > /nm > > [0] And I adore it. 20 GB of music, 10 hours of battery life, about > the same size as a pack of cards ... what more does a highly mobile > geekgirl need? > [1] Anything that I rip these days is to AAC, which is the next > generation of MP3. But, because I'm lazy, I'm just going to use MP3 to > mean 'a music file that's been encoded using a lossy codec'. I don't see AAC as being the next generation of MP3s. It really has no advantages over MP3, plus DRM is implemented in AAC which is an automatic turnoff for many people. Same thing with Microsoft'sWMA file, which they have claimed is better than MP3. The only formats I see as true alternatives to MP3 is OGG and FLAC. OGG is a true open source format, and is suppose to offer better compression to MP3. FLAC is a lossless format. That is much smaller than WAV files, but fairly larger than MP3s. It's probably the best option for "perfect" files. I really enjoy this topic and hearing everyone's opinions!!! Wade ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 20:37:32 -0800 From: Steve VanDevender Subject: mp3 abc Adam K. writes: > Can someone point me in the direction of a helpful "idiot's guide"-type > primer site regarding mp3's, please? Now that I hve broadband (for however > long I have it) I'd really like to explore these, but so far the more I > find out the less I seem to know or understand. I know Nadyne pointed me in > the direction of LAME some time ago (and for that I am grateful, Nadyne) > but --- as usual -- I had no idea what it was on about, not a word. While the conversation goes barrelling off in another direction, I just have to ask -- what specifically do you want to know about MP3s? Where to find them? How to make your own? How the audio compression works, and what the tradeoffs are? Something else? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 20:44:41 -0800 From: Steve VanDevender Subject: Re: mp3 abc Wade Alberty writes: > There is a great guide on how to make GREAT mp3s at: http://www.ubernet.org/ > Basically it is a method for perfect extraction from the CD, and encoding > with LAME for the best quality. Well, they are quite thoroughly anal about it, aren't they? I find it amusing that their writeup almost makes it sound like CDs are an analog medium, given that they _require_ a specific ripper. Wouldn't any ripper that handles CD error detection/correction be fine? After all, it's _digital_ data, and the CD format uses an error-correcting code specifically designed to handle (small) scratches, so you can get correct data even from a scratched CD, or detect when a frame is uncorrectable. Specifying MP3 or Ogg encoder settings make some sense, since those do have a direct impact on the audio quality of the encoded file. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 23:04:54 -0600 From: "Wade Alberty" Subject: Re: mp3 abc The one reason I strongly recommend EAC, is that it perfectly extracts the data from CDs. If EAC encounters an area of a CD that is badly scratched or hard to read it will slow down the drive speed and re-read that section of the disc until it has every bit of information. Therefore you don't get any of the annoying "Blips" in your MP3s. The other thing about EAC is that it creates a log file that shows the extraction was perfect, and many people will keep that log file with the MP3 files, so you can be sure it is a quality rip. I have used the EAC & LAME combo for all of my CDs, and have found it to be excellent, and I highly recommend it. If anyone has any questions, or wants to know more, please let me know, and I'll be happy to try and help you. Wade - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve VanDevender" To: "Ecto" Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 10:44 PM Subject: Re: mp3 abc > Wade Alberty writes: > > There is a great guide on how to make GREAT mp3s at: http://www.ubernet.org/ > > Basically it is a method for perfect extraction from the CD, and encoding > > with LAME for the best quality. > > Well, they are quite thoroughly anal about it, aren't they? > > I find it amusing that their writeup almost makes it sound like CDs are > an analog medium, given that they _require_ a specific ripper. Wouldn't > any ripper that handles CD error detection/correction be fine? After > all, it's _digital_ data, and the CD format uses an error-correcting > code specifically designed to handle (small) scratches, so you can get > correct data even from a scratched CD, or detect when a frame is > uncorrectable. > > Specifying MP3 or Ogg encoder settings make some sense, since those do > have a direct impact on the audio quality of the encoded file. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 21:41:12 -0800 From: Steve VanDevender Subject: Re: mp3 abc Wade Alberty writes: > The one reason I strongly recommend EAC, is that it perfectly extracts the > data from CDs. > If EAC encounters an area of a CD that is badly scratched or hard to read it > will slow down the drive speed and re-read that section of the disc until it > has every bit of information. > Therefore you don't get any of the annoying "Blips" in your MP3s. Much of the error correction happens in the CD driver software or CD drive hardware itself; as I said before, the digital data on a CD is encoded with an error-correcting code that allows limited detection and correction of read errors. In more detail, each frame of data has extra bits added to it in such a way that if read errors change up to so many bits in a frame, it's possible to reconstruct the original frame; if more bits are changed, it's still possible to detect the error under most circumstances. While the read speed may affect the number of read errors, typically either a data frame with errors is recoverable or not, and repeatedly re-reading it can't reconstruct data that is beyond the ability of the error-correcting code to reconstruct. EAC can't do magic to work around a badly scratched or deteriorated CD, and there are other rippers besides EAC that apply "paranoia" in reading CD data and flagging errors. The "blips" in your MP3s could result from missing, unrecoverable CD sectors in the audio input, but they could also result from artifacts in either the MP3 encoding or decoding process. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 16:58:06 +0000 From: andrew fries Subject: Re: MP3s? Joshua Burnett wrote: > As for other companies wanting to get in, well, it > wouldn't be the first time that everyone wanted to get into a new tech > fad even though it didn't have a realistic profit model. Nor would it be the first time everyone followed Apple's lead - doing it not quite as well but cheaper, in the end crowding Apple out of the market... My own take on online music sales remains the same as before: if I am required to jump through *any* copy protection hoops then I'm not interested. And in any case, I don't really want to pay for something encoded with a lossy algorithm. I have no problem with using formats like mp3 or ogg as samples, copies for a car or portable player or whatever. But for the master copy I insist on the real thing... True, on my crappy equipment I can't really tell the difference most of the time - - but at least I can hope one day I will be able to afford better equipment :) (BTW, does anyone remember that research paper that did a few rounds on the net a while ago, suggesting listening to sounds in compressed formats could be, in large doses, physically harmful to our hearing? I wonder if that was proved or disproved - or simply ignored...) np: Karnataka, The Storm - not the CD itself but ogg vorbis files, encoded from my own CD, naturally. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 22:24:19 -0800 From: Nadyne Mielke Subject: Re: MP3s? On Sunday, February 8, 2004, at 08:08 PM, Wade Alberty wrote: > In the big picture iTunes have very little overhead. Bandwidth isn't > that > expensive, plus you pay for the connection, not the amount used in > their > case. Their overhead is non-zero. There's the server farm for hosting everything, there's the bandwidth, and there's the employees for keeping it all up and working. They're taking 35 cents per song, and they're not making much at all. Their profit margin, the last I checked, is something on the order of a couple of pennies per song. Where do you want them to cut, especially if you expect them to get down to the 50 cents per song that you quote below? [snip] > There has been only one pay-per-download music service that I have to > be > respectable, that is Bleep ( http://www.warprecords.com/bleep/ ) With a whopping 125 albums available (not to mention bloody annoying music when I login to their site), they may be 'respectable', but they're not really worth wasting my time. > They offer true MP3 files, taken from the masters, and use the LAME alt > preset method, which gives you an Extremely good quality MP3. Well, as good as you can get with a lossy codec, anyway. :) > They don't have any of the digital music rights stuff in the music to > prevent you from playing it on X number of computers or devices. > Basically, > they treat their customers like, well customers. iTunes had to make quite a lot of concessions to get the major record companies to buy into their model, which includes the digital rights. If you don't get the major record labels on board, you miss out on the biggest artists, and that means that the vast majority of the music-buying public isn't going to bother with it. Is it perfect? No. Is it a reasonable start? I think so. [snip] > The exclusive albums, and other songs like that are very cool, but I > still > have this issue with not getting a physical product, and knowing that > I am > getting something that is "less than CD quality." In general, I agree with you. I like having the actual honest-to-goodness CD. I like reading the liner notes, I like seeing the artwork, I like being able to play it in my car [0], and I prefer having the original lossless recording. That's why I don't buy the full CD. I either buy a couple of tracks to sample, or that one song that I like but can't stand the rest of the album, or the exclusive content. > There are some Gustar recordings offered exclusively on iTunes that I > would > love to have, but I just can't bring myself to downloading them, > simply due > to the fact I want a physical product, and AAC is less than CD quality. Assuming that Guster doesn't make them available on CD eventually, you're just going to live without those recordings forever? I'd prefer to have a lossy recording than no recording at all, but I guess that's just my preference. > I don't see AAC as being the next generation of MP3s. It really has no > advantages over MP3, plus DRM is implemented in AAC which is an > automatic > turnoff for many people. Same thing with Microsoft'sWMA file, which > they > have claimed is better than MP3. The advantages are higher quality files and smaller recording files. The encoding algorithms used for AAC are improving. The early algorithms resulted in files that sounded the same or worse than a comparable MP3, but that situation has significantly improved in the past few months. I expect that we'll see tools that can achieve better sound quality and smaller files than what we have now. LAME and EAC didn't exist the second MP3 was introduced: they both took awhile to make it out into users' hands, and then additional time to work out their kinks (just ask anyone who tried to use LAME's alt-preset when it was first introduced). [snip] > FLAC is a lossless format. That is much smaller than WAV files, but > fairly > larger than MP3s. It's probably the best option for "perfect" files. I really wish that I could find a standalone player, like the SliMP3 or the HomePod, that would play FLAC files. (I wouldn't mind if it did SHN files, to spare me from having to unencode and re-encode some of my existing files.) I'd buy something like that in a heartbeat. I like hooking my PowerBook up to my stereo so I can have essentially limitless play of my music, but I dislike that I'm listening to lossy files. /nm [0] I just got a new car, and its in-dash cassette deck isn't very happy with a cassette adapter. :/ The radio adapters, like the iTrip, don't work well in a radio market like the SF Bay that's pretty much saturated. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 00:48:35 -0600 From: "Wade Alberty" Subject: Re: MP3s? - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nadyne Mielke" To: "Ecto" Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 12:24 AM Subject: Re: MP3s? (snip) > I really wish that I could find a standalone player, like the SliMP3 or > the HomePod, that would play FLAC files. (I wouldn't mind if it did > SHN files, to spare me from having to unencode and re-encode some of my > existing files.) I'd buy something like that in a heartbeat. I like > hooking my PowerBook up to my stereo so I can have essentially > limitless play of my music, but I dislike that I'm listening to lossy > files. > > /nm > FLAC at home....Your wish has come true: http://www.slimdevices.com/ Wade ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V10 #39 **************************