From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V9 #177 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Friday, June 20 2003 Volume 09 : Number 177 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Paper and lots of it... [Tim Cook ] Ecto Napster (RE: HGP Part 5 is ok now) ["William Mazur" ] Today's your birthday, friends... [Mike Matthews ] Re: Ecto Napster [Joseph Zitt ] Paralysed by TOO MUCH STUFF! ["ron" ] how does this mailing list work? [robert bristow-johnson ] Re: Ecto Napster [Nadyne Mielke ] **Rachael Sage @ Cleveland Pride Tomorrow!** [SpiritWe@aol.com] Re: Ecto Napster [Yngve Hauge ] Re: Ecto Napster [Kjetil Torgrim Homme ] daedalus books ["Lyle Howard" ] Re: mp3z available [Yngve Hauge ] Seeking: the Saddest Songs on Earth. [alberto carrasco ] Re: Seeking: the Saddest Songs on Earth. [Birdie ] Re: Seeking: the Saddest Songs on Earth. [Brian Bloom ] Re: Seeking: the Saddest Songs on Earth. [alberto carrasco ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 06:57:54 +0100 From: Tim Cook Subject: Paper and lots of it... Vickie wrote: >How can I throw away every music-related bit of paper I've accumulated in >the past 20 years? Don't even ask about movies! I had that problem years ago just before I moved to the states. The solution I used then and still use now was to convert everything that could be converted into electronic form. I use Paperport and I can fit everything onto a single DVD with room to spare. Obviously you wouldn't want to throw away originals, signed copies etc but its ideal for things like magazine articles, newspaper clippings etc. My original copy of paperport came with a sheet feed scanner and it could handle scanning as fast as I could shove the paper in. Just a thought :-) Tim ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2003 23:43:08 -0700 From: "William Mazur" Subject: Ecto Napster (RE: HGP Part 5 is ok now) I think that this a really interesting idea. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ecto@smoe.org [mailto:owner-ecto@smoe.org] On Behalf Of Xenus Sister Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 2:53 PM To: ecto@smoe.org Subject: HGP Part 5 is ok now (I like the idea of our own Ecto Napster, where artists would get paid per download, after a free sample, of course) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 03:00:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike Matthews Subject: Today's your birthday, friends... i*i*i*i*i*i i*i*i*i*i*i *************** *****HAPPY********* **************BIRTHDAY********* *************************************************** *************************************************************************** ********************* David Lubkin (no Email address) ********************* ********************* Marisa Wood (no Email address) ********************** ***************** Cheri Villines (cvilline@comp.uark.edu) ***************** ********************** Ray Misra (no Email address) *********************** *************************************************************************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- David Lubkin Fri June 20 1958 OurLady Marisa Wood Fri June 20 1969 Gemini Cheri Villines Sun June 20 1965 Gemini-Leo rising Ray Misra Sat June 20 1970 Gemini Nik Popa Sun June 22 1969 Cancer Teresa VanDyne Thu June 23 1960 Cancer Dave Torok Mon June 24 1968 Cancer Ethan Straffin Thu June 24 1971 Cancer Kevin Dekan Mon June 27 1960 Cancer Samantha Tanner Tue June 30 1970 Wild Goose BunkyTom Tue July 02 1968 Cancer Anders Hallberg Tue July 03 1962 Cancer Kevin Harkins Thu July 05 1973 Cancer Laurel Krahn Mon July 05 1971 Cancer John J Henshon Mon July 05 1954 The Year Of The Horse / Ruled By The Moon Jim Gurley Mon July 06 1959 Cancer Lisa Rouchka Fri July 08 1960 Moonchild with Java Rising Courtney Dallas Fri July 09 1971 Catte Michael Peskura Sat July 09 1949 HallOfFamer Finney T. Tsai Sat July 09 1966 Cancer Larry Greenfield Tue July 11 1950 Virgo Rising; Gemini Moon Marion Kippers Tue July 13 1965 Kreeft Ellen Rawson Thu July 13 1961 Double Cancer Mitch Pravatiner Mon July 14 1952 Cancer R. Rapp Wed July 14 1954 On a Gray Eye Sojourn John Zimmer Sun July 16 1961 Cancer Dan Stark Sun July 16 1961 Cancer Cathy Guetzlaff Mon July 18 1955 Cancer Vlad Sat July 18 1970 Warning: severe tire damage Jani Pinola Thu July 20 1972 Jonquil - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 00:06:03 -0700 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Ecto Napster William Mazur wrote: > I think that this a really interesting idea. We seem to have an intriguing array of techies and such here. Could we put together the needed technical and financial chops to get this to fly? It would require a significant bunch of programming and design, a connection with Paypal or other payment systems, and human time to work with the musicians, files, etc. It seems like a price-point of about $1/track seems to be tolerable, if people are sure that they're getting good stuff. How much of this would be needed for overhead and how much could go to the musicians? And how much could be rolled out using existing open software and open standards? (I wonder if it could somehow be interwoven with the Ectophile's Guide...) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:11:33 +0200 From: "ron" Subject: Paralysed by TOO MUCH STUFF! hi >>>>>Xenus Sister wrote about moving & too much stuff i moved about 6 months ago. packed my cds into big cardboard boxes. now im listening to each one as it comes out & goes into the racks. just dip my hand into the box - whatever comes out is what i listen to. i guess im about halfway there & having a wonderful time listening to stuff id forgotten was so good. theres even a couple in there i never got round to listening to before........ ron np - tom waits - the earth dies screaming - den haag 21.07.99 (one of those forgotten gems.....) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 00:26:24 -0400 From: robert bristow-johnson Subject: how does this mailing list work? okay, do i send to ecto@smoe.org and read the posts at fa.music.ecto? it appears that the only place i can read fa.music.ecto is at google groups. is that the normal way? is there a normal mailing list that i can subscribe to and receive the other posts by email? r b-j (a "Happy" friend) From: Kjetil Torgrim Homme (kjetilho@ifi.uio.no) Subject: Re: Mary Fahl concert in Cincinnati! Newsgroups: fa.music.ecto Date: 2003-06-10 06:49:33 PST .. hey Pat, cool to see a performer give his view :-). fa.music.ecto is a one-way mirror of the mailing list, though, so most of the people on the list didn't see your message. to reach everyone, send the message by e-mail to ecto@smoe.org. (note Cc.) - -- Kjetil T. np: Happy Rhodes: The first to cry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 07:43:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Neile Graham Subject: Regina Spektor in the New York Times! (fwd) Jim sent this to me, but didn't think of ecto! Or maybe he's too scared to emerge from lurkdom. Or maybe it's because he knew I'd do it. After all, today is our 20th anniversary. Clearly, I was a child bride. Anyway, if you haven't checked out Regina Spektor, I highly recommend you do. She's in the Ectophiles' Guide and there are links there to her page and CDBaby. http://www.ectoguide.org/guide.cgi?artists/spektor.regina - --Neile Three Songwriters of Distinctive Instincts By JON PARELES Never have I been part of any scene," Ed Harcourt sang at the Bowery Ballroom, nicely summing up the charms of the self-made songwriter who follows private instincts and idiosyncrasies. Three of them  Mr. Harcourt, Sondre Lerche and Regina Spektor  shared the bill on Monday night, each one brimming with intelligent quirks. **** Ms. Spektor was giggly between songs and a very wise child within them. "Muscles of the intellectuals are atrophying," she sang. "Nobody's running, nobody's hiding." Sex and death, guns and office work all showed up in her lyrics, supported by sparse piano parts. Her voice bounced between girlish playfulness and adult bluesiness, sometimes breaking words into nonverbal sounds. She sometimes came across as an unlikely combination of Rickie Lee Jones, Bjork and Meredith Monk. She sang a "dance anthem of the 80's" accompanied by single repeated notes, mimicking electropop; she played another song with her left hand on the piano and her right tapping a stool with a drumstick. But she wasn't just a bundle of eccentricities. There was compassion, sly wit and a catchy refrain in every song. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 18:03:54 +0200 From: Kjetil Torgrim Homme Subject: Re: how does this mailing list work? [robert bristow-johnson]: > > okay, do i send to ecto@smoe.org and read the posts at > fa.music.ecto? yes, you got it right. > it appears that the only place i can read fa.music.ecto is at > google groups. is that the normal way? if you ask your local news admin, he'll probably be able to pick it up. > is there a normal mailing list that i can subscribe to and receive > the other posts by email? yes, of course you can subscribe to ecto. see http://www.ecto.org/ for details. > r b-j (a "Happy" friend) welcome! :-) - -- Kjetil T. | read and make up your own mind np: Heather Nova: Gloomy Sunday | http://www.cactus48.com/truth.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:32:00 -0400 (EDT) From: "Larne Pekowsky" Subject: Re: Ecto Napster Joseph Zitt wrote: > And how much could be rolled out using existing open software and > open standards? I'd suggest using jxta (http://www.jxta.org/) as the base strata and doing the reference implementation in Java. Java is far from my favorite language, but it is available for most OSes of interest, and comes pre-installed on a fair number of machines. And for those who hate Java, there are Jxta stacks available for C, Perl and Python, although I don't know how ready they are. While Java itself isn't as open as I'd like, all of the relevant jxta specs and code are. I could also see some sort of digital signature to distinguish free sample tracks from those that have to be purchased. The Java cryptography extensions should provided everything needed there as well. I agree about using payPal to handle the financial transactions. > (I wonder if it could somehow be interwoven with the Ectophile's > Guide...) Probably. Links could bring up an applet that would connect to the system (although due to security restrictions on applets I think smoe.org would need to act as a jxta gateway, which might be inefficient). Or do it the way BitTorrent does; define a special mime type that invokes an external program. I could see other points of integration, but that's probably enough for the moment. - Larne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 09:40:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Nadyne Mielke Subject: Re: Ecto Napster Joseph Zitt wrote: > We seem to have an intriguing array of techies and such here. Could > we put together the needed technical and financial chops to get this > to fly? It occurs to me that anything of this nature could run into a huge lot of problems with the *cough* fine folks of the RIAA. It seems exceptionally likely that they would view it as pirating, even if we were shipping off cheques to the artists involved. I'm sure that it would slip under their radar for some period of time, but it doesn't seem unlikely that they'd get wind of it somehow. It seems to me that it would be better to wait and see what Apple offers up when it makes independent labels available through its online music store. They have the knowledge, the infrastructure, and most of the work already in place. CDBaby gave an early endorsement of the contract, saying that it was very artist-friendly. Yes, the Apple Music Store is currently limited to US Mac users, but that will change by the end of the year. I doubt that we could roll this sort of thing out in any useful way before then, anyway. /nm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:52:24 EDT From: SpiritWe@aol.com Subject: **Rachael Sage @ Cleveland Pride Tomorrow!** Just a little reminder... Rachael Sage Trio (w/ Dean Sharp on drums & Stephanie Winters on cello!) will be performing tomorrow: Saturday June 21 Cleveland Pride Festival - 4pm sharp (Rachael is also MC-ing!) ...also performing: Sophie B. Hawkins and Blu Cantrell for more information call 216.371.0214 Voinovich Park Cleveland, OH Hope to see some Ecto-Folks down at the show - & if you know anyone in Cleveland, please help spread the word! xoxo & light, Rachael & The Folks at MPress "dexterous and haunting work, scored with dark emotional hues, rich chromatic chordings and surprising, adventurous changes." - Philadelphia Daily News * * * www.rachaelsage.com www.mpressrecords.com 1.877.878.SAGE * * * ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 18:58:23 +0200 (CEST) From: Yngve Hauge Subject: Re: Ecto Napster On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, Nadyne Mielke wrote: > Joseph Zitt wrote: > > > We seem to have an intriguing array of techies and such here. Could > > we put together the needed technical and financial chops to get this > > to fly? > > It occurs to me that anything of this nature could run into a huge lot > of problems with the *cough* fine folks of the RIAA. It seems > exceptionally likely that they would view it as pirating, even if we > were shipping off cheques to the artists involved. I'm sure that it > would slip under their radar for some period of time, but it doesn't > seem unlikely that they'd get wind of it somehow. > If we get a go from the artists themselves - what can RIAA do about it? I thought they were supposed to protect the rights of the artists, and not the big labels, but sure I know they tend to not do that but if they go against what the artists themselves want then they show their true face once and for all. What if the server is outside the US? (No, I can't have the server here, because UNINETT is for non-profit organisations like schools and the like.) Can RIAA really do anything about it then? There have been cases dismissed on the grounds of US law isn't valid in Norway. I don't know what it is like in the rest of Europe though. I don't think we should wait for what Apple does as they ARE for now limited to USA only and for how long we don't even know. - -- Yngve ****************************************** * E-mail: onealien@mo.himolde.no ********* * Cell: +47 41330571 ********************* ***** Blessed be!!! ********************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 19:10:45 +0200 From: Kjetil Torgrim Homme Subject: Re: Ecto Napster first of all, I'd like to say that the technical issues are EASY. the problem is the paperwork: getting distributor rights, collect the fees, hand out the money to artists, or even just incorporating a company and taking care of customer service. [Larne Pekowsky]: > > I could also see some sort of digital signature to distinguish > free sample tracks from those that have to be purchased. The Java > cryptography extensions should provided everything needed there as > well. please, don't let ectophiles attempt to foist a new DRM scheme on the world :-). the file could include a fingerprint, which could be used to identify the downloader who spreads it. this would only catch the careless or technically ignorant, of course. > I agree about using payPal to handle the financial transactions. I don't. Paypal has a bad reputation for withholding funds with very poor mechanisms for the seller to dispute the buyer's claims. their fees are much too high to make them viable for mini-payments. Moneybookers seem much more friendly, are a _lot_ cheaper, and you don't even need a credit card to do business with them. http://www.moneybookers.com > Probably. Links could bring up an applet that would connect to > the system (although due to security restrictions on applets I > think smoe.org would need to act as a jxta gateway, which might be > inefficient). Or do it the way BitTorrent does; define a special > mime type that invokes an external program. why not use BitTorrent? it would keep bandwidth manageable as popularity goes up. only two small additions are needed: authentication client->tracker, and (for the fingerprint idea) a method of downloading a specific block from a master server. - -- Kjetil T. | read and make up your own mind np: Tyne Daly: I can cook too | http://www.cactus48.com/truth.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:12:51 +0000 From: "Lyle Howard" Subject: daedalus books Hi, Some of you may already be familiar with this online remainder store. I just heard about them from an ad on my local, commercial-free public radio station. (What?) I looked at the site briefly and fled. I can't afford anything, even at ramaindered music and books prices. http://www.daedalusbooks.com And after downloading one of Mr. Soong's songs, I realize why I haven't stepped into the digital age. Until I have dsl or some such fast link, downloading is misery. Off to listen to the mp3. Bye, Lyle _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 19:24:56 +0200 (CEST) From: Yngve Hauge Subject: Re: mp3z available On Fri, 20 Jun 2003, jonathan soong wrote: > As i have supported mp3z quite a lot in the recent CD-collecting thread > I thought i would upload a couple of songs from my band :) > > Availble here: http://brunatex.com/mp3z/ > > Has been compared to danielle dax, cocteau twins, kate etc. > > Hope someone likes it, its on a fast link... Listening to them now for the first time - and it isn't gonna be the last. Just the right dose of the things that make music so interesting. Thanks for making the available. - -- Yngve ****************************************** * E-mail: onealien@mo.himolde.no ********* * Cell: +47 41330571 ********************* ***** Blessed be!!! ********************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 11:55:03 -0700 (PDT) From: alberto carrasco Subject: Seeking: the Saddest Songs on Earth. We look before and after, And pine for what is not: Our sincerest laughter With some pain is fraught; Our sweetest songs are those That tell of saddest thought. Percy Bysshe Shelley, 1792-1822 from "To a Skylark" I dont recall seeing this topic here before so I thought Id throw it out. Ive been having an interesting on-going discussion with a friend about how much we love sad, heartbreaking songs songs that always make you cry. Its such a personal, individual thing. Ive asked a number of friends lately and gotten odd responses (to me, anyway) like "everything by the Velvet Underground"  a group I love but that never evoked that response from me. And people have mentioned Nick Cave's work and while it can be depressing stuff and I like it, for whatever reason, he doesn't quite get to me that way. - ---------- But there are musicians like Happy Rhodes, Robert Smith, Lyle Lovett, and Bruce Springsteen who have so many songs that tear me up. Anyway, a handful of examples and a few representative lines, though granted, a lot of the emotion comes from the performance: "A Lucky Guy" by Rickie Lee Jones: Supposedly about being dumped by Tom Waits because of her heroin addiction. "He's a lucky guy/ He doesn't worry about me/ When I'm gone/ He goes to sleep at night/ He don't turn off the light/ And wonder how to find me/ Or if I'm alone" Happy: With her, its the oddest thing it doesnt have to be her lyrics just her voice chokes me up. "For We Believe", "Summer", "If So", "The Chariot", "Temporary & Eternal" always turn my sprinklers on. Another voice that does that to me is K.D. Lang. I always thought the sentiments of the Hollies song, "The Air That I Breathe" were overblown but when K.D. sings it whew! "Between" by Vienna Teng: Seeing her perform this and "The Tower" twice in two days a couple of weeks ago had me with a big lump in my throat both times. And "Lullabye for a Stormy Night" always makes me melancholy remembering terrific children of various friends over the years. "Apart" by the Cure: "He waits to hear her say Forgive/ But she just drops her pearl-black eyes/ And prays to hear him say I love you/ But he tells no more lies". (Other Robert Smith lyrics: "To Wish Impossible Things", "Trust", "Treasure", "Bare" all sung in that Little Boy Lost voice of his *gak*) "Baltimore" by Lyle Lovett: "what makes a woman beat her breast/ When her children start to cry/ And what makes those little ones grow old/ To find eternity/ And what takes the wise/ And leaves behind/ A foolish one like me". (Other Lyle songs: "She's Already Made Up Her Mind", "The Fat Girl", "Simple Song", "Highway Kind", "Nobody Knows Me") Another voice that can wring the emotion out of each line. "Wreck on the Highway" by Bruce Springsteen: "An ambulance finally came and took him to Riverside/ I watched as they drove him away/ And I thought of a girlfriend or a young wife/ And a state trooper knocking in the middle of the night/ To say your baby died in a wreck on the highway". (Other Bruce songs: "I Wish I Were Blind", "Stolen Car", "Point Blank", "Downbound Train", "The River") Ive been to 24 Bruce concerts over 25 years and you can typically look down the aisles and see dozens of people crying throughout the show. Peter Gabriel: Again as much for the delivery as the lyrical content, but these songs always get to me: "Mercy Street", "Blood of Eden", "Here Comes the Flood". (Especially the live version of "Flood" from the first Gabriel tour with Peter singing over a sinuous, mournful Robert Fripp guitar solo. My favorite officially released "Flood" is on Fripps "Exposure" album.) "The Other Me" by Joe Jackson: A heartbreaker about being in love with two people at once. (Other touching Joe songs for me: "Trying to Cry", "Drowning", "Sentimental Thing", "The Human Touch") "Hurt" by Johnny Cash: A cover of the Nine Inch Nails song, it has a much heavier resonance when Johnny sings it. A tremendous video, too by both of them, for that matter. - -------------- Anyway, Im putting together a compilation of these types of songs for myself "Music to Mope to on a Rainy Day" or something like that. Any other song suggestions? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 15:16:34 -0400 From: JoAnn Whetsell Subject: RE: Seeking: the Saddest Songs on Earth. I'm sure I could think of many more if I tried, but right off the top of my head, and since alberto already mentioned rickie lee jones, her song Skeletons. It tells the story of a young man with a young family who's trying to do the right thing and he goes to a store shortly after a robbery occurred. He matches the suspect's description, and when he reaches for his wallet, the cops blow him away. The story itself is sad enough, but the heartwrenching way she repeats "Skeletons, skeletons" at the end, so full of frailty, gets me every time. And unfortunately, this sort of incident still happens too often. JoAnn - -----Original Message----- From: alberto carrasco [mailto:factoryalberto@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 2:55 PM To: Ecto Subject: Seeking: the Saddest Songs on Earth. We look before and after, And pine for what is not: Our sincerest laughter With some pain is fraught; Our sweetest songs are those That tell of saddest thought. Percy Bysshe Shelley, 1792-1822 from "To a Skylark" I dont recall seeing this topic here before so I thought Id throw it out. Ive been having an interesting on-going discussion with a friend about how much we love sad, heartbreaking songs songs that always make you cry. Its such a personal, individual thing. Ive asked a number of friends lately and gotten odd responses (to me, anyway) like "everything by the Velvet Underground"  a group I love but that never evoked that response from me. And people have mentioned Nick Cave's work and while it can be depressing stuff and I like it, for whatever reason, he doesn't quite get to me that way. - ---------- But there are musicians like Happy Rhodes, Robert Smith, Lyle Lovett, and Bruce Springsteen who have so many songs that tear me up. Anyway, a handful of examples and a few representative lines, though granted, a lot of the emotion comes from the performance: "A Lucky Guy" by Rickie Lee Jones: Supposedly about being dumped by Tom Waits because of her heroin addiction. "He's a lucky guy/ He doesn't worry about me/ When I'm gone/ He goes to sleep at night/ He don't turn off the light/ And wonder how to find me/ Or if I'm alone" Happy: With her, its the oddest thing it doesnt have to be her lyrics just her voice chokes me up. "For We Believe", "Summer", "If So", "The Chariot", "Temporary & Eternal" always turn my sprinklers on. Another voice that does that to me is K.D. Lang. I always thought the sentiments of the Hollies song, "The Air That I Breathe" were overblown but when K.D. sings it whew! "Between" by Vienna Teng: Seeing her perform this and "The Tower" twice in two days a couple of weeks ago had me with a big lump in my throat both times. And "Lullabye for a Stormy Night" always makes me melancholy remembering terrific children of various friends over the years. "Apart" by the Cure: "He waits to hear her say Forgive/ But she just drops her pearl-black eyes/ And prays to hear him say I love you/ But he tells no more lies". (Other Robert Smith lyrics: "To Wish Impossible Things", "Trust", "Treasure", "Bare" all sung in that Little Boy Lost voice of his *gak*) "Baltimore" by Lyle Lovett: "what makes a woman beat her breast/ When her children start to cry/ And what makes those little ones grow old/ To find eternity/ And what takes the wise/ And leaves behind/ A foolish one like me". (Other Lyle songs: "She's Already Made Up Her Mind", "The Fat Girl", "Simple Song", "Highway Kind", "Nobody Knows Me") Another voice that can wring the emotion out of each line. "Wreck on the Highway" by Bruce Springsteen: "An ambulance finally came and took him to Riverside/ I watched as they drove him away/ And I thought of a girlfriend or a young wife/ And a state trooper knocking in the middle of the night/ To say your baby died in a wreck on the highway". (Other Bruce songs: "I Wish I Were Blind", "Stolen Car", "Point Blank", "Downbound Train", "The River") Ive been to 24 Bruce concerts over 25 years and you can typically look down the aisles and see dozens of people crying throughout the show. Peter Gabriel: Again as much for the delivery as the lyrical content, but these songs always get to me: "Mercy Street", "Blood of Eden", "Here Comes the Flood". (Especially the live version of "Flood" from the first Gabriel tour with Peter singing over a sinuous, mournful Robert Fripp guitar solo. My favorite officially released "Flood" is on Fripps "Exposure" album.) "The Other Me" by Joe Jackson: A heartbreaker about being in love with two people at once. (Other touching Joe songs for me: "Trying to Cry", "Drowning", "Sentimental Thing", "The Human Touch") "Hurt" by Johnny Cash: A cover of the Nine Inch Nails song, it has a much heavier resonance when Johnny sings it. A tremendous video, too by both of them, for that matter. - -------------- Anyway, Im putting together a compilation of these types of songs for myself "Music to Mope to on a Rainy Day" or something like that. Any other song suggestions? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:38:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Dowling Subject: Re: Ecto Napster > first of all, I'd like to say that the technical > issues are EASY. the > problem is the paperwork: getting distributor > rights, collect the > fees, hand out the money to artists, or even just > incorporating a > company and taking care of customer service. The company I work for does that. http://www.ecastinc.com/ thanks, mdd ===== - -------------------------- "Lend your voices only to sounds of freedom No longer lend your strength to that which you wish to be free from Fill your lives with love and bravery And you shall lead a life uncommon" - -------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:51:46 -0700 From: Birdie Subject: Re: Seeking: the Saddest Songs on Earth. Nick Cave is on the soundtrack for "Winged Migration" - fabulous film! Birdie Alberto scribed-- We look before and after, And pine for what is not: Our sincerest laughter With some pain is fraught; Our sweetest songs are those That tell of saddest thought. Percy Bysshe Shelley, 1792-1822 from "To a Skylark" I dont recall seeing this topic here before so I thought Id throw it out. Ive been having an interesting on-going discussion with a friend about how much we love sad, heartbreaking songs songs that always make you cry. Its such a personal, individual thing. Ive asked a number of friends lately and gotten odd responses (to me, anyway) like "everything by the Velvet Underground"  a group I love but that never evoked that response from me. And people have mentioned Nick Cave's work and while it can be depressing stuff and I like it, for whatever reason, he doesn't quite get to me that way. - ---------- But there are musicians like Happy Rhodes, Robert Smith, Lyle Lovett, and Bruce Springsteen who have ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:04:11 -0700 From: Brian Bloom Subject: Re: Seeking: the Saddest Songs on Earth. My nominees: "The Last Leviathan" - Rory Block "This Woman's Work" - Kate Bush (well, the "She's Having A Baby" video version anyway) "Butterfly Kisses" - Bob Carlisle (saccharin and Christian, but moving) "For Annie" - Petra (ditto) "Wise Up" - Aimee Mann (not quite as potent, but sanguine) "I Don't Wanna Wait" - Paula Cole (just the verse about the war memories) "Cat's In the Cradle" - Harry Chapin (The boys' counterpart to Butterfly Kisses) And while it doesn't make me cry, "Piano Man" depresses the hell out of me.. ;) Of course, you're not the first to ask for this list.. check out: http://www.popculturemadness.com/Music/Sad.html http://rateyourmusic.com/board_message/message_id_is_6120_and_board_id_is_1 http://members.tripod.com/rgordley/the_best_and_worst_of_music.htm moo. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:30:09 -0700 (PDT) From: alberto carrasco Subject: Re: Seeking: the Saddest Songs on Earth. Thanks for the other list links, Brian!! Just what I needed... I thought of another: "The Last Day of Our Acquaintance" by Sinead O'Connor: The line, "You used to hold my hand when the plane took off" so perfectly captures the disintegration of relationships... Gets me every time. And speaking of the earlier mention of Nick Cave, seeing him tomorrow night here in Chicago. Shannon Wright opens and I like what I've heard and hear great things about her performances. - --- Brian Bloom wrote: > My nominees: > "The Last Leviathan" - Rory Block > "This Woman's Work" - Kate Bush (well, the "She's > Having A Baby" video > version anyway) > "Butterfly Kisses" - Bob Carlisle (saccharin and > Christian, but moving) > "For Annie" - Petra (ditto) > "Wise Up" - Aimee Mann (not quite as potent, but > sanguine) > "I Don't Wanna Wait" - Paula Cole (just the verse > about the war memories) > "Cat's In the Cradle" - Harry Chapin (The boys' > counterpart to Butterfly > Kisses) > > And while it doesn't make me cry, "Piano Man" > depresses the hell out of me.. ;) > > Of course, you're not the first to ask for this > list.. check out: > http://www.popculturemadness.com/Music/Sad.html > http://rateyourmusic.com/board_message/message_id_is_6120_and_board_id_is_1 > http://members.tripod.com/rgordley/the_best_and_worst_of_music.htm > > > moo. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:33:50 -0400 From: sdbryant@umich.edu Subject: Re: Seeking: the Saddest Songs on Earth. Interesting thread -- I've talked about similar things with friends before. I think sad music has a very particular way of resonating deeply with people. Anyway, without further ado... The sad-core genre of music naturally comes to mind when talking about sad music. I'd say the most Ecto-friendly of the groups are Red House Painters. "Have you Forgotten?" is a gorgeous melancholy song with pretty simplistic lyrics about growing up, but it works wonderfully. "Katy's Song," which is about a failed relationship, and "Drop," which is about infidelity also rank highly for me. Other groups in the style are great, too, ofcourse. Low's "Embrace" and American Music Club's "Why Won't You Stay?" come to mind particularly, which are about the temporality of relationships and the death of a child respectively. Outside of that, I'd say Shivaree's "Lunch" rates INCREDIBLY highly for me. It's one of those songs that you miss the first time you play an album, but I've found that not a lot of their long-term fans can resist gushing about it. It's a song concerning the observations of someone whose friend has gone off the edge in the love-department. Sometimes I've also discovered that sometimes the hardest-hitting songs come on albums that aren't really very sad. When you're floating on a high the bottom dropping out from under you is all the more effective. The non-ectoish Sponge's "Velveteen" and Goo Goo Doll's "Name" come to mind in that camp. Anyway, below are a few others that I tend to think are essential moping songs. "Leave Me Here" by Hem - Timeless folk about crashing down from love. "Hold On" by Sarah Mclachlan - Passionate singing about watcing a lover die from AIDS. "Insensitive" by Jann Arden - Poppy but sweet lament about a relationship ending. "In the Sun" by Joseph Arthur - Beautiful lyrics -- he melds issues about faith and love into a rather interesting whole. Anything sung by Eva Cassidy - Her voice inspires shivers on its own. "Angelyne" by PJ Harvey - Song from a prostitute's perspective about trying to escape her life. "The Vigil" by Jane Siberry - A song documenting her mother's death. "Jezebel" by 10,000 Maniacs - The ultimate break-up song, and somewhat unusually from the perspective of the person whose doing the breaking. "God Give Me Strength" by Kristen Vigard -- Mock brill-building pop, as heard on Vigard's Grace of My Heard voice-overs for Illeana Douglas "Hyperballad" by Bjork - A song about the everday choice to stay alive. Anyway... not a complete list by far, but probably already well beyond my two cents worth. Some artists really deserve mention like Vienna Teng, K's Choice, Joan Osborne, Nick Drake etc... but.. this is long enough, as is. ;) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 14:51:25 -0500 (CDT) From: gshell@metronet.com Subject: Re: Seeking: the Saddest Songs on Earth. hear are a few songs I consider sad. they also happen to be a few of my favorite songs. Tecumseh Valley - Townes Van Zandt Cowboy Romance - Natalie Merchant Hello Stanger - Emmy Lou Harris Abraham, Martin and John - Dion To Daddy - Emmy Lou Haris Do I Ever Cross Your Mind - Dolly Parton, Emmy Lou Harris, Linda Ronstadt Gulf Coast Highway - Willie Nelson, Emmy Lou Harris Heartbreaker - The Rolling Stones Here are the lyrics to 'Tecumseh Valley', in case anyone is interested. The name she gave was Caroline The daughter of a miner And her ways were free And it seemed to me That the sunshine walked beside her She come from Spencer, across the hill She said her pa had sent her Cause the coal was low And soon the snow Would turn the skies to winter. She said she'd come to look for work She was not seekin' favors For a dime a day And a place to stay She turn those hands to labor Well times were hard and, lord, jobs were few All through Tecumseh Valley But she asked around And a job she found Tending bar at Gypsy Sally's Well she saved enough to get back home When spring replaced the winter But her dreams were denied Her pa had died The word came down from Spencer. So she turned to whorin' out in the streets With all the grief inside her And it was many a man Who returned again To lay himself beside her. They found her down beneath the stairs That led to Gypsy Sally's And in her hand when she died Was a note that cried Fare-thee-well, Tecumseh Valley The name she gave was Caroline The daughter of a miner And her ways were free And it seemed to me That the sunshine walked beside her ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 17:46:47 -0400 From: Robert Lovejoy Subject: Re: Seeking: the Saddest Songs on Earth. Again in agreement with most, esp. a lot of Happy's catalog. Also want to add "The Two Trees" from Loreena McKinnitt's (spelling?) "The Mask and The Mirror", and Enya's "Exile". ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:27:41 -0700 From: Paul Schreiber Subject: Re: Ecto Napster Joseph Zitt wrote: > Xenus Sister wrote: > >> (I like the idea of our own Ecto Napster, where artists would get paid >> per download, after a free sample, of course) > > This would be wonderful. I wonder how it might work effectively. My > instant thought would be that it would be an obvious feature for the > good folks at CDBaby. Kevin Marks has an idea like this, he calls it mediAgora. http://www.mediagora.com/ From the site: Principles and goals mediAgora defines a new market model, based on coherent principles and goals. Principles: - - Creators should be credited and rewarded for their work. - - Works can be incorporated into new creative works. - - When they are, all source works should be credited and rewarded. - - Customers should pay a known price. - - Successful promotion of work should be rewarded too. - - Individuals can play multiple roles - Creator, Promoter, Customer - - Prices and sales figures should be open - - Relationships are based on trust and reputation - - Copy protection destroys value Goals: - - Creators have 3 main goals - getting heard, getting credited and getting paid - - Customers want to find works and pay a fair price - - Creators set the price, customers decide to pay it (or not) - - Promoters have an incentive to promote Works, but not to compete with other promoters for the same work - - Working within the system is more attractive than subverting it Paul shad 96c / uw cs 2001 / mac activist / fumbler / eda / headliner / navy-souper fan of / sophie b. / steve poltz / habs / bills / 49ers / "There is the same difference in a person before and after he is in love as there is in an unlighted lamp and one that is burning. The lamp was there, and it was a good lamp; but now it is shedding light, too, and that is its real function." -- Vincent Van Gogh ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V9 #177 **************************