From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest)
To: ecto-digest@smoe.org
Subject: ecto-digest V9 #156
Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org
Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org
Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org
Precedence: bulk
ecto-digest Wednesday, June 4 2003 Volume 09 : Number 156
Today's Subjects:
-----------------
charlotte martin? and spam [Damon
]
Old tapes on NPR ["Mitchell A. Pravatiner" ]
Saturday's playlist [Xenus Sister ]
Re: charlotte martin? and spam [Paul Blair ]
RE: charlotte martin? and spam ["Bill Adler" ]
mary fahl [JoAnn Whetsell ]
RE: charlotte martin? and spam ["Amy" ]
Re: charlotte martin? and spam [dmw ]
Re: Old tapes on NPR [dmw ]
NYTimes.com Article: A Memo to the Wachowskis From a Disappointed Fan [jw]
RE: Old tapes on NPR [Phillip Hudson ]
From the Jewel's mouth ["Mitchell A. Pravatiner" ]
Re: charlotte martin? and spam [meredith ]
Fwd: dorothy scott nyc summer gig [meredith ]
RE: mary fahl ["Bill Adler" ]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 00:13:21 -0700
From: Damon
Subject: charlotte martin? and spam
hi all -
does anyone have charlotte martin's cd `test-drive songs'?
cdbaby recommended it to me and the samples intrigued me, so i'm
wondering if someone has further comments. ah cdbaby - the only site
where i actually *look* at the recommendations.
i'm waiting in hopes that the canadian dollar continues to strengthen,
before i actually place my order - but it's already up to ten cds even
*without* the charlotte martin one so i think i'd better do it soon.
also, out of curiosity, is there anyone else on the list who keeps
getting music-related spam from `ISC' and `Nemo Music Contest'? they
keep sending stuff and it's about the only spam that comes to my
damon@ address, which i unfortunately used on ecto for a couple of
months. :( seems pretty targeted so i figure they must have harvested
emails from ecto specifically. *very* frustrating, but i haven't yet
done any serious complaining about it, though i keep meaning to.
cheers
- -damon
- --
dl+ecto@usrbin.ca: protecting my real address since 2002 (too late!)
> EWS starts here! <
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 03:09:35 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Mitchell A. Pravatiner"
Subject: Old tapes on NPR
Yesterday (june 2), _Morning Edition_ ran a story (available on the web)
about a man who has an enormous stash of very high quality tape recordings
he made in the '50s and '60s, of live country music performances. The
thing I found most noteworthy about all this is that it has lately become
a shibboleth that magnetic tape (audio, video and computer) is supposed
to deteriorate after some number of years, particularly if not stored
under carefully controlled conditions as to temperature, etc.--which these
tapes most decidedly were not, having instead simply been stacked up in a
room (or rooms) in the man's home.
In the best case, this should give us hope for the future of the
cassettes, etc. we all have accumulated over the life of this mailing
list. Anyone have any thoughts?
Mitch
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 03:16:14 -0500
From: Xenus Sister
Subject: Saturday's playlist
I'm "collecting" playlists. Could someone please post or send me a complete
playlist
for the house concert. Pretty please?
Soon I will post a list of all the shows I know about and all the playlists
I have.
If anyone knows of more shows (even if you don't have a playlist) and has
a playlist I don't have, that would be great. I'm learning about shows I didn't
know about or had completely forgotten about.
Vickie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 07:13:38 -0400
From: Paul Blair
Subject: Re: charlotte martin? and spam
At 0:13 -0700 6/3/03, Damon wrote:
>also, out of curiosity, is there anyone else on the list who keeps
>getting music-related spam from `ISC' and `Nemo Music Contest'?
Yes. Not the worst of the spammers, but annoying.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:03:49 -0400
From: "Bill Adler"
Subject: RE: charlotte martin? and spam
I've been receiving spam from Nemo Music, too. (I've blocked them using
Cloudmark's Spamnet.)
- --Bill
n.p. Mary Fahl, The Other Side of Time
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-ecto@smoe.org [mailto:owner-ecto@smoe.org] On Behalf Of
Damon
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 3:13 AM
To: ecto
Subject: charlotte martin? and spam
hi all -
also, out of curiosity, is there anyone else on the list who keeps
getting music-related spam from `ISC' and `Nemo Music Contest'? they
keep sending stuff and it's about the only spam that comes to my damon@
address, which i unfortunately used on ecto for a couple of months. :(
seems pretty targeted so i figure they must have harvested emails from
ecto specifically. *very* frustrating, but i haven't yet done any
serious complaining about it, though i keep meaning to.
cheers
- -damon
- --
dl+ecto@usrbin.ca: protecting my real address since 2002 (too late!)
> EWS starts here! <
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:48:03 -0400
From: JoAnn Whetsell
Subject: mary fahl
Bill's np made me remember my surprise that I don't think anyone has posted about Mary Fahl's new album, The Other Side of Time, yet. I have it and have only listened to it about 2 1/2 times so far, so I'm still forming my opinions. Everything below is subject to change, but...
I think it's a good album but not the stunning album I was expecting/hoping for. I absolutely love the first track "The Great Unknown." And I still love the songs from the "Lenses of Contact" ep, though I prefer the original versions. The new ones seem a bit faster to me and have some unnecessary background vocals and other stuff (electronic noodling"). I love the world influences on the album, Celtic mostly if I remember properly. And track 4, "Ben Aindi Habibi, "which I think is in Hebrew, is another outstanding track. I'm not sure of the choice of the aria "Una furtiva lagrima" in the middle of the disc. Is that because Mary's on Sony's classical label? It's a decent track, even a good track, as far as songs go, but it seems out of place on a largely better-than-pop pop album. My only other quibble is that some of the string arrangements seem melodramatic, but this is most noticeable on songs like "Going Home," which was, after all, used in a film soundtrack.
These are all minor complaints, and if I emphasize the negative, it's only because when something is so good, you tend to see the flaws more (I do at least). Or perhaps I am better able to articulate the few things I don't like more than the many things I do.
So here's what I do like: Mary's voice. Still gorgeous. She could sing the alphabet, and I would probably sit and listen, mesmerized. It has this ability to transport me. That's been the case from the first October Project disc and everything she's done since. The musicianship. (I'm not qualified to comment further.) The songs are mostly strong, and they range in style as well as language. "Annie, Roll Down Your Window" sounds like an old traditional even though it's a new song. "Kindness Can Be Cruel" alternates a seductive dark side with a driving pop part. There is a lingering October Project feel, but more in that the music invokes memory of OP; it's not mimicry or OP redux.
So overall it's a good album. I'm interested to hear what other people think of it, and I think if you've enjoyed Mary's previous work you'll be pleased with it.
JoAnn
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 08:59:16 -0500
From: "Amy"
Subject: RE: charlotte martin? and spam
Hi there,
Charlotte Martin is FABULOUS!!
She's a great piano player with an amazing voice. Her song style reminds me
of Sarah Slean (the older voice, not the drunk cabaret singer...I don't mean
that as a cut, I like Sarah both ways). Every song on 'Test Drive Songs' is
a hit. She's recently been signed to Sony (I think) so she'll probably have
a big release soon. If you like the sound samples you'll like the whole
recording.
> also, out of curiosity, is there anyone else on the list who keeps
> getting music-related spam from `ISC' and `Nemo Music Contest'?
They've been sending me stuff for ages and it's been fine, but the last
"Spam" I got said something about how they've been taken over by someone
else who apparently doesn't think it's a bad thing to bombard people with
unwanted crap. I have been just ignoring them but if it gets worse I'll
report them to Spam Cop.
~Amy
Producer - www.collectedsounds.com
A Guide to Women in Music
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-ecto@smoe.org [mailto:owner-ecto@smoe.org]On
> Behalf Of Damon
> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 2:13 AM
> To: ecto
> Subject: charlotte martin? and spam
>
>
> hi all -
>
> does anyone have charlotte martin's cd `test-drive songs'?
>
> cdbaby recommended it to me and the samples intrigued me, so i'm
> wondering if someone has further comments. ah cdbaby - the only site
> where i actually *look* at the recommendations.
>
> i'm waiting in hopes that the canadian dollar continues to strengthen,
> before i actually place my order - but it's already up to ten cds even
> *without* the charlotte martin one so i think i'd better do it soon.
>
> also, out of curiosity, is there anyone else on the list who keeps
> getting music-related spam from `ISC' and `Nemo Music Contest'? they
> keep sending stuff and it's about the only spam that comes to my
> damon@ address, which i unfortunately used on ecto for a couple of
> months. :( seems pretty targeted so i figure they must have harvested
> emails from ecto specifically. *very* frustrating, but i haven't yet
> done any serious complaining about it, though i keep meaning to.
>
> cheers
>
> -damon
>
> --
> dl+ecto@usrbin.ca: protecting my real address since 2002 (too late!)
> > EWS starts here! <
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 13:44:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: dmw
Subject: Re: charlotte martin? and spam
On Tue, 3 Jun 2003, Damon wrote:
> also, out of curiosity, is there anyone else on the list who keeps
> getting music-related spam from `ISC' and `Nemo Music Contest'? they
> keep sending stuff and it's about the only spam that comes to my
> damon@ address, which i unfortunately used on ecto for a couple of
> months. :( seems pretty targeted so i figure they must have harvested
> emails from ecto specifically. *very* frustrating, but i haven't yet
> done any serious complaining about it, though i keep meaning to.
i get about five or six of each, but i haven't looked at them closely
enough to see what address they were sent to.
i'm pretty sure one copy was for my affiliation with snap pop magazine
(rip) and i thought one set of each might be from cd baby, who sometimes
send me info (with my permission) about opportunities to promote my music.
which leaves three or four of unkown provenance -- ecto? can't rule it
out, i spoze.
i was on the verge of applying to play the nemo conference, so i didn't
think that was nearly as spammy as all the viagra/how to profit on the
war/& all the many other offenses.
- -- d.
np decemberists
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 13:53:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: dmw
Subject: Re: Old tapes on NPR
On Tue, 3 Jun 2003, Mitchell A. Pravatiner wrote:
> Yesterday (june 2), _Morning Edition_ ran a story (available on the web)
> about a man who has an enormous stash of very high quality tape recordings
> he made in the '50s and '60s, of live country music performances. The
> thing I found most noteworthy about all this is that it has lately become
> a shibboleth that magnetic tape (audio, video and computer) is supposed
> to deteriorate after some number of years, particularly if not stored
> under carefully controlled conditions as to temperature, etc.--which these
> tapes most decidedly were not, having instead simply been stacked up in a
> room (or rooms) in the man's home.
i'm betting that either he didn't live somewhere extremely humid, or with
extremely wide rapid temperature shifts -- or if he did, maybe he got
central ac before a lot of people did.
tape degradation is no myth -- a friend of mine had to bake some tapes
recorded in the early 80s (and stored in his house) when some of his old
stuff was remastered for cd). but it's kinda like the freshness date of
milk -- it should last a week past the posted date, but sometimes it
doesn't, and it may last quite a bit longer, but you can't guarantee it.
the media also makes a difference. tapes in the 50s/60s may have been
thicker, and may have had a denser concentration of magnetic particles on
the tape. my friends 80s tapes were on 1/2" and 1" 8-track, in humid
arlington va.
on the other hand, another friend in a humid town went back to ca. 88/89 8
tracks of similar formulation and was able to use those backing tracks on
a cd released last year.
ymmv. actually, ymwaCv.
- -- d.
np still decemberists
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 15:16:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: jwhetsell@abcny.org
Subject: NYTimes.com Article: A Memo to the Wachowskis From a Disappointed Fan
This article from NYTimes.com
has been sent to you by jwhetsell@abcny.org.
Given the recent discussion of the Matrix, I thought some people might enjoy this humorous note in the Sunday Times Magazine.
For the record, I have not seen either of the Matrix movies and have no opinions on them or their fans/critics.
jwhetsell@abcny.org
/-------------------- advertisement -----------------------\
Explore more of Starbucks at Starbucks.com.
http://www.starbucks.com/default.asp?ci=1015
\----------------------------------------------------------/
A Memo to the Wachowskis From a Disappointed Fan
June 1, 2003
By PHILIP GRAHAM
Wachowski brothers: if you ever get a chance to reload your
own movie, perhaps these modest suggestions might assist
you.
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/01/movies/01GRAH.html?ex=1055667809&ei=1&en=d563ebcab84cede1
- ---------------------------------
Get Home Delivery of The New York Times Newspaper. Imagine
reading The New York Times any time & anywhere you like!
Leisurely catch up on events & expand your horizons. Enjoy
now for 50% off Home Delivery! Click here:
http://www.nytimes.com/ads/nytcirc/index.html
HOW TO ADVERTISE
- ---------------------------------
For information on advertising in e-mail newsletters
or other creative advertising opportunities with The
New York Times on the Web, please contact
onlinesales@nytimes.com or visit our online media
kit at http://www.nytimes.com/adinfo
For general information about NYTimes.com, write to
help@nytimes.com.
Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 13:08:41 -0700
From: Phillip Hudson
Subject: RE: Old tapes on NPR
In the best case, this should give us hope for the future of the
cassettes, etc. we all have accumulated over the life of this mailing
list. Anyone have any thoughts? ..."
The fact that they started out as high-quality will doubtless help make
them still sound a lot better than similar tapes recorded on low-end gear.
We're all used to crappy recordings from the 50s and 60s anyway, so anything
that was recorded with quality in mind will sound better. Even without the
rigors of heat and humidity, the magnetization of the tape decreases over
time, especially in the analog high end. It's possible to literally 'bake'
tapes to re-attach the particles, but this should only be done by a
qualified chef.
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-ecto@smoe.org [mailto:owner-ecto@smoe.org]On Behalf Of
Mitchell A. Pravatiner
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 1:10 AM
To: ecto@smoe.org
Subject: Old tapes on NPR
Yesterday (june 2), _Morning Edition_ ran a story (available on the web)
about a man who has an enormous stash of very high quality tape recordings
he made in the '50s and '60s, of live country music performances. The
thing I found most noteworthy about all this is that it has lately become
a shibboleth that magnetic tape (audio, video and computer) is supposed
to deteriorate after some number of years, particularly if not stored
under carefully controlled conditions as to temperature, etc.--which these
tapes most decidedly were not, having instead simply been stacked up in a
room (or rooms) in the man's home.
In the best case, this should give us hope for the future of the
cassettes, etc. we all have accumulated over the life of this mailing
list. Anyone have any thoughts?
Mitch
- ---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 5/19/2003
- ---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 5/19/2003
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 18:04:23 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Mitchell A. Pravatiner"
Subject: From the Jewel's mouth
Today's _Chicago Sun-Times_ reprints an article from _Billboard_ in
Jewel's new album, which quotes her extensively rehashing the same
time-for-a-change, because-I-can rationale as before for her genre shift.
It's on the web at
www.suntimes.com/output/entertainment/cst-ftr-jewel03.html .
Mitch
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 19:50:18 -0500
From: "Xenu's Sister"
Subject: Re: Old tapes on NPR
At 03:09 AM 6/3/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>Yesterday (june 2), _Morning Edition_ ran a story (available on the web)
>about a man who has an enormous stash of very high quality tape recordings
>he made in the '50s and '60s, of live country music performances. The
>thing I found most noteworthy about all this is that it has lately become
>a shibboleth that magnetic tape (audio, video and computer) is supposed
>to deteriorate after some number of years, particularly if not stored
>under carefully controlled conditions as to temperature, etc.--which these
>tapes most decidedly were not, having instead simply been stacked up in a
>room (or rooms) in the man's home.
>
>In the best case, this should give us hope for the future of the
>cassettes, etc. we all have accumulated over the life of this mailing
>list. Anyone have any thoughts?
>
>Mitch
I'm not a techie, but I'd hazard a guess that the tape of yesteryear was
very thick, strong and durable. Sure, a lot of it deteriorated, and broke,
but today's tape is much, much flimsier. We have videotapes from the late
70's and early 80's that are in much better shape than things I've recorded
in the past year. That kind of story gives hope that more interesting stuff
from
the past will be found, but it doesn't do too much to qualm my fears about
what's
being recorded now.
I can speak from experience because some of our Happy tapes are in terrible
shape, with huge, several minute long dropouts. That's one reason why I got
really scared and started making wav and mp3 files of all this. I now have 18
wav files of 16 Happy Rhodes shows, with 4 more audio-only to be ripped. I
know there are many more I don't have.
It bothers me that this stuff might be lost forever. What if there was a
fire here?
What if something were to happen to me? (not that anything, knock
on wood, will, but...) After 9/11 Chris and I talked about the "what if" and it
comes up again occasionally. I asked him what he'd do with the Happy tapes.
Chris said "I suppose I'll ust send them to Happy" and I nearly yelled in
dismay.
NOOOOOO! NO NO NO! That would be the WORST place for them.
Happy Rhodes is NOT a "Happy Rhodes fan" and wouldn't think twice about
putting them on a shelf or in a box and completely forgetting about them. They
mean nothing to her, and are, if anything, embarrassing, and that's
understandable.
But us, we want this kind of fan-geeky stuff (I know I do, and some of the
people
who've written me). I have goosebumps just thinking about them going back to
Happy. :)
Vickie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 21:13:53 -0400
From: meredith
Subject: Re: charlotte martin? and spam
Hi,
damon wondered:
>also, out of curiosity, is there anyone else on the list who keeps
>getting music-related spam from `ISC' and `Nemo Music Contest'?
I constantly get bombarded with it, but not at this e-dress. I get it both
at my work and Yahoo e-dresses, neither of which I have ever used to post
to ecto. I have used both to post to music-related Yahoogroups lists,
though, which leads me to believe they're trolling Yahoogroups to put their
spam lists together.
When the ISC spam started hitting last fall, I reported every instance to
SpamCop. That didn't seem to do much good (subsequent bombings just
originated from different forged addresses, which tells me that they are
well aware that what they're doing is spam), but it made me feel better.
I don't know what the ISC and Nemo Music Contest are, but if they have any
hope of being regarded as legitimate they'd do well to drop spam as a
marketing tool pronto.
===============================================
Meredith Tarr
New Haven, CT USA
mailto:meth@smoe.org
http://www.smoe.org/meth
===============================================
Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series
http://muzak.smoe.org
===============================================
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2003 21:16:01 -0400
From: meredith
Subject: Fwd: dorothy scott nyc summer gig
This promises to be a highlight of the musical year...
>From:
>To:
>Subject: dorothy scott nyc summer gig
>Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 11:41:30 -0400
>
>dear fans,
>
>Happy Summer!!
>I'm writing to tell you about
>a very groovy upcoming gig...
>with three AMAZING WOMEN all in one night !!!
>
>TUESDAY, JUNE 24
>@ FEZ (under the Time Cafe)
>380 Lafayette st.
>reservations: 212-533-2680
>(doors open 7 pm)
>
>8pm: SUSAN MCKEOWN
>9PM: SLOAN WAINWRIGHT
>10pm: DOROTHY SCOTT...
>(with Peter Kiesewalter on piano
>& Denise Jalbert, aka "Giselle", on drums)
>
>hope to see you there!!
>thanks always for your love + support...
>
>peace + love,
> from the house of pumpkin records
===============================================
Meredith Tarr
New Haven, CT USA
mailto:meth@smoe.org
http://www.smoe.org/meth
===============================================
Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series
http://muzak.smoe.org
===============================================
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 22:43:31 -0400
From: "Bill Adler"
Subject: RE: mary fahl
I've been listening to Mary Fahl's new CD since it arrived yesterday and
I'm not quite ready to write any detailed --or accurate-- comments.
Like JoAnn, I'm still trying to figure out what I think about it.
The CD, The Other Side of Time, certainly showcases Mary Fahl's
exquisite voice. My initial impression is that this is an uneven CD:
Some of the songs are amazing, others less so. Perhaps I feel that way
only because it's hard to separate Mary Fahl from October Project, and I
keep expecting to hear October Project's special sound on The Other Side
of Time.
A couple of the songs on The Other Side of Time are the same that were
on Mary Fahl's previous solo CD, Lenses of Contact, which was sadly
underwhelming. I haven't listened to the two CDs, Lenses of Contact and
The Other Side of Time, side by side, so I don't know if these songs are
sung differently on The Other Side of Time.
There's a mix of styles and even languages on The Other Side of Time.
I'm not sure how I like the mix because it detracts from the
cohesiveness of the CD. You get the sense that Mary Fahl is trying out
different formats and genres, uncertain of what kind of CD she wanted to
make. Some of the songs are energized and rich; others are delicate and
tender; still others almost liturgical or operatic. But that's also a
virtue in The Other Side of Time: You get to hear one of the most truly
incredible singing voices of the century performing a range of songs.
There hasn't been a voice like Mary Fahl's since Annie Haslam sung for
Renaissance.
- --Bill Adler
n.p. Mary Fahl, The Other Side of Time
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-ecto@smoe.org [mailto:owner-ecto@smoe.org] On Behalf Of
JoAnn Whetsell
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 9:48 AM
To: 'ecto@smoe.org'
Subject: mary fahl
Bill's np made me remember my surprise that I don't think anyone has
posted about Mary Fahl's new album, The Other Side of Time, yet. I have
it and have only listened to it about 2 1/2 times so far, so I'm still
forming my opinions. Everything below is subject to change, but...
I think it's a good album but not the stunning album I was
expecting/hoping for. I absolutely love the first track "The Great
Unknown." And I still love the songs from the "Lenses of Contact" ep,
though I prefer the original versions. The new ones seem a bit faster
to me and have some unnecessary background vocals and other stuff
(electronic noodling"). I love the world influences on the album,
Celtic mostly if I remember properly. And track 4, "Ben Aindi Habibi,
"which I think is in Hebrew, is another outstanding track. I'm not sure
of the choice of the aria "Una furtiva lagrima" in the middle of the
disc. Is that because Mary's on Sony's classical label? It's a decent
track, even a good track, as far as songs go, but it seems out of place
on a largely better-than-pop pop album. My only other quibble is that
some of the string arrangements seem melodramatic, but this is most
noticeable on songs like "Going Home," which was, after all, used in a
film soundtrack.
These are all minor complaints, and if I emphasize the negative, it's
only because when something is so good, you tend to see the flaws more
(I do at least). Or perhaps I am better able to articulate the few
things I don't like more than the many things I do.
So here's what I do like: Mary's voice. Still gorgeous. She could
sing the alphabet, and I would probably sit and listen, mesmerized. It
has this ability to transport me. That's been the case from the first
October Project disc and everything she's done since. The musicianship.
(I'm not qualified to comment further.) The songs are mostly strong,
and they range in style as well as language. "Annie, Roll Down Your
Window" sounds like an old traditional even though it's a new song.
"Kindness Can Be Cruel" alternates a seductive dark side with a driving
pop part. There is a lingering October Project feel, but more in that
the music invokes memory of OP; it's not mimicry or OP redux.
So overall it's a good album. I'm interested to hear what other people
think of it, and I think if you've enjoyed Mary's previous work you'll
be pleased with it.
JoAnn
------------------------------
End of ecto-digest V9 #156
**************************