From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V9 #100 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Friday, April 11 2003 Volume 09 : Number 100 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: ecto-digest V9 #99 [aural gratification ] Happy's house concert [karen hester ] Today's your birthday, friends... [Mike Matthews ] RE: ecto-digest V9 #99 ["William Mazur" ] Re: ecto-digest V9 #99 [Greg Bossert ] Re: production and the lack thereof [Greg Bossert ] production? ["Donald G. Keller" ] ecto events in London [adamk@zoom.co.uk] Finally!!! Vienna Teng Live... ["Varker, Patrick" ] Reminder: Sloan Wainwright at the House O'Muzak This Sunday [meredith ] Re: production and the lack thereof [Joseph Zitt ] Re: New Happy song [meredith ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 02:57:18 -0400 From: aural gratification Subject: Re: ecto-digest V9 #99 I know all about Happy's chords..........she plays the right ones. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 23:55:12 -0700 (PDT) From: karen hester Subject: Happy's house concert Kia Ora, Ecto has been great lately, my mailbox is feeling well-fed and plump :) May I ask if Happy permitted taping? I guess she was fine with the video-recorder and camera, but with all this fascinating guitar talk, it's sounds I'm interested in. Won't mention it again if she was against it. Karen Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 03:00:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike Matthews Subject: Today's your birthday, friends... i*i*i*i*i*i i*i*i*i*i*i *************** *****HAPPY********* **************BIRTHDAY********* *************************************************** *************************************************************************** ******************** Klaus Kluge (klaus.kluge@gmx.de) ********************* *********** Steve VanDevender (stevev@hexadecimal.uoregon.edu) ************ ********************** Art Liestman (art@cs.sfu.ca) *********************** ******************** Stephen Golden (no Email address) ******************** *************************************************************************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Klaus Kluge Sun April 10 1960 Unicorn Steve VanDevender Sun April 10 1966 Racer Art Liestman Fri April 10 1953 Repeat Stephen Golden Sat April 10 1971 Jokey Michael Bowman Wed April 11 1962 Aries Wolfgang Ullwer Fri April 11 1969 Widder Janet Kirsch Thu April 11 1974 Aries Jerry Tue April 13 1971 Aries Stuart Myerburg Mon April 14 1969 Aries T-Bone Wed April 15 1992 happy cat Jeff Hanson Sat April 16 1966 Aries Michael Klouda Mon April 17 1967 Aries Harry Foster Sat April 21 1956 NiceGuy Kjetil Torgrim Homme Thu April 23 1970 Taurus Jeff Burka Thu April 24 1969 GoFlyAKite Christine Waite Tue April 25 1972 Taurus Matt Adams Thu April 26 1962 Taurus Brad Hutchinson Tue April 28 1964 What sign? Geoff Parks Sun April 30 1961 Taurus Marty Lash Sat May 01 1948 Taurus Barney Parker Fri May 02 1986 happy cat Gray Abbott Tue May 03 1955 Suprised Tamar Boursalian Tue May 03 1966 Taurus Richard A. Holmes May 07 Taurus Steve Ito Fri May 08 1970 DA Bull... Brian Gregory Thu May 09 1963 Eclectic Heidi Maier Wed May 10 1978 Taurus - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 00:30:38 -0700 From: "William Mazur" Subject: RE: ecto-digest V9 #99 So do you Kevin! And all of the right melodic, atmospheric lines as well. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-ecto@smoe.org [mailto:owner-ecto@smoe.org] On Behalf Of aural gratification Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 11:57 PM To: ecto@smoe.org Subject: Re: ecto-digest V9 #99 I know all about Happy's chords..........she plays the right ones. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 00:37:10 -0700 From: Greg Bossert Subject: Re: ecto-digest V9 #99 On Wednesday, Apr 9, 2003, at 23:57 US/Pacific, aural gratification wrote: > I know all about Happy's chords..........she plays the right ones. hey, all chords are the right chords, as long as you play 'em with enough attitude (which Ms. Rhodes certainly has) it's just that some of them end up being jazz (and you can recognize them 'cuz they smell funny... :) - -g (who'd really rather be playing guitar right now -- loudly, with an e-Bow and a 5 second delay -- than working) - -- "i've never been afraid to change the circumstances of the world" - -- Happy Rhodes - -- "except for bunnies..." - -- Anya ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 01:19:07 -0700 From: Greg Bossert Subject: Re: production and the lack thereof i agree with everything Bill says (ditto for other folks' thoughts through these related threads -- man, i like this list, which given my general crankiness these days is quite remarkable). his comment about Happy's stuff working in both simple and elaborate settings nails one of the particular things i like about her music... one thought about "music production" (an oxymoron when taken as the modern corporate sense or production, and yet often quite accurate): it's easy to take a simple guitar or piano and voice arrangement as more direct and honest than a obviously manipulated electronic setting, but i've seen and heard recording sessions where the allegedly hip, earthy singer/songwriter is playing a $4000 guitar through a bevy of $2000 microphones, with a small team of technicians to point the one at the other; and sessions where the sounds were constructed with a radio, a reel-to-reel, a razor blade, and some sticky tape (see my "n.p." below for an example of the latter). as far as i can tell, the effectiveness, beauty, impact, soul, of a piece has little to do with the tools with which it is made, and a lot to do with how you use them. (a favorite peeve for me along this line is Sarah McLachlan -- i find much of her later solo piano and voice calculated to *sound* heartfelt, when for me it is much less so than the heavily manipulated studio work of "Fumbling Towards Ecstasy) another thought: i make guitars (and drums and rhumba boxes and wack-a-phones and stuff i don't yet have a name for) and i also use (and build and write) music software and electronics, and i can attest that a modern guitar is at least as arbitrary and contrived a contraption as the most synthetic musical gadget. both these points are honestly a bit trite, but probably worth bringing up now and again. it is easy to let the constant barrage of, erm, "produced music" sour one to musical production, when the latter -- traced in a jagged sort of line connecting Pierre Schaeffer to George Martin to Brian Eno to Aphex Twin and on, and not skipping a teenage Happy piecing together synth tracks -- is one of the great musical achievements of this century. also a lot of fun. On Wednesday, Apr 9, 2003, at 22:25 US/Pacific, William Mazur wrote: > When a song is really strong, the singer is incredible and able to > deliver the emotional content of the song, and the basic accompaniment > (guitar or piano) is well done you don't necessarily need anything > else. > > I personally run the gamut of liking completely sparse production with > just the artist and their instrument (some of Nick Drake's recordings > come to mind) to a completely intricate and evolved production ala Dark > Side of the Moon or OK Computer. > > One thing I feel about a lot of Happy's material is that her songs can > go either way when it comes to production. You referred to "Just Like > Tivoli". Her performance of that song at EFW was more stripped down to > the basics. However, I really like the arrangement and production on > the > studio version. On "Temporary and Eternal" I prefer the version on The > Keep versus the original, more arranged and produced version on > Equipoise. > > My guess is it that comes down to how the song hits you emotionally. A > bare essential approach may touch you deeply because it is simple and > direct. The more produced song can create more of an atmosphere or > mood. > When that happens, then that song may speak to you in a different but > just as powerful way. - -g n.p. Orchid Spangiafora "Heart of Glue" n.r. Jonathan Lethem "Girl in Landscape" - -- "i've never been afraid to change the circumstances of the world" - -- Happy Rhodes - -- "except for bunnies..." - -- Anya ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 07:18:16 -0400 (EDT) From: "Donald G. Keller" Subject: production? The debating question "Production--How Much Is Too Much?" is of course a very large one, but I'll make a few more remarks on the subject while trying not to drag in my entire record collection. There's a related subject which may muddy the waters here, which is the size of ensemble: that amounts to arrangement rather than production, but the effects are much the same. For example, I tend to prefer string quartets to orchestral pieces, not that I don't like many orchestral pieces. Or take Neil Young's "Cowgirl in the Sand." By an accident of history I heard the solo acoustic version (on CSNY's =4-Way Street=) first, and though I later came to love the classic version on =Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere= (and the 18-minute version on his recent live album =Road Rock= is pretty terrific as well), if I had to choose I'd still pick the acoustic one. It's not that I don't like heavy production at all: going way back, some of my favorite Beatles songs are the most elaborate studio creations ("Strawberry Fields," "Tomorrow Never Knows," "A Day in the Life" to name a few)--though my #1 is still "And I Love Her," a mostly acoustic number. Similarly with Led Zeppelin--"Kashmir" is a major studio production, for example. And I'm a card-carrying 70s prog-rock fan--there's nothing simple about production or arrangement of Yes, Genesis, King Crimson, etc. etc. I absolutely adore Portishead. And though it took me a little while to get into =OK Computer=, I think it's a great album--and =Kid A= and =Amnesiac= both work for me very well also. Tori Amos with just a piano is how I prefer to hear her, but some of her most-produced and arranged material--=Boys for Pele= for example--seems to me extremely effective as well. So there's no simple equation here. Kristeen Young? I've said before, I think, that I have a =theoretical= objection to her method of programming layers of keyboard parts (including percussion) that play by themselves while she sings unencumbered; but in practice this results in songs that are significantly richer and more complex than the ones she plays live and sings simultaneously (to the point where most of her dozen best songs fall in this category), so that I don't really object after all. Still, one of the songs on =Breasticles= ("21st Century Ride") was originally done with solo piano, a version I prefer to the later full rock band version. One last example: Marianne Nowottny. In general, I like her studio albums, though they're very heavily arranged, to the point where the second disc of =Manmade Girl= is more "soundscapes" than "songs"; but there are a few cases where, having been lucky enough to hear the voice and keyboard version live, I prefer them. Most notably, there's a song on her first album =Afraid of Me= called "Grey City," where the keyboard part is played with a bell-like setting awash in resonance, and furthermore in a rather "foggy" resonance with distant vocals. An evocative mood-piece, though it passes in a blur, and it never made a strong impression on me. Then she played it live, on a grand piano (one such performance is preserved on her new EP =Illusions of the Sun=, which I should do a full review of), and I was utterly mesmerized: in this version you could hear the clearly-articulated piano part, with fascinating interplay between the two hands (including a gradually-changing right-hand part), and between the piano part and the voice. One of her best songs, I now think. In summation: I think one has to take the question on a case-by-case basis, because clearly some music is best played by a full, heavily-produced ensemble (piano reductions of Mahler symphonies, anyone? how about a Jon Anderson solo acoustic guitar version of =Tales from Topographic Oceans?). But a lot of music makes its most direct impact in as simple a form as possible. I am beginning to wonder if the reason I don't respond to Happy Rhodes as strongly as most people here do is because her producing/arranging style is not to my taste. But that's life. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:30:50 +0100 From: adamk@zoom.co.uk Subject: ecto events in London Well,that's it, I'm ectoed out. Just bought my tickets for Kathleen Edwards and Eliza Gilkyson at the Borderline, although trying to get an Eleni Mandell ticket proved a little harder -- the 12 Bar hasn't printed them yet. I'm passing on Oh Susannah at the Borderline, though, as there's only so much excitement I can take. I don't get out to gigs as much as I'd like to, as I generally find that all the standing around and waiting that precedes a gig gets a bit tiring. The combination of old age and a working day is a terrible thing. Solo sightings: Skin from Skunk Anansie is now solo, and doing a show at the London Scala at the beginning of May. She now has hair but still looks gorgeous. Also solo is Natasha Lea Jones, formerly of Pooka, playing the Borderline at the end of May. The leaflet I have of her excels in its hyperbole. Pooka were, apparently, a "female Cold Play" (sic). Her forthcoming solo debut features Rob Ellis (PJ Harvey) and Mark Jones (Peter Gabriel). The leaflet also has a quote from Liam Gallagher: "She's Real! That's Cool!". Yep, Liam on the ball again. adam k. np - where but for caravan would i/caravan - ------------------------------------------------ This mail sent through http://webmail.zoom.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:43:16 -0400 From: "Varker, Patrick" Subject: Finally!!! Vienna Teng Live... I have waited soooooo long but finally tonight I will see Vienna in concert. She is here in the Triangle area of North Carolina (Raleigh, Durham, and Chapel Hill) for shows over the next few nights. Tonight she plays the Six String Cafe in Cary and on Sat. night she's part of a big Tori Tribute concert in Chapel Hill/Carrboro. I am shaking with anticipation!!! The Tori Tribute show is going to be quite an event. Any of you coming this way? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 16:30:52 -0400 From: "JoAnn Whetsell" Subject: Re: Be Good Tanyas Ellen wrote: "Saw Erin McKeown do her opening act, though -- very nice and a good pairing with the Tanyas. " Interesting you mention that. I've always thought the Tanyas sound a lot like Erin McKeown, at least vocally. Maybe it's just one of the singers who has a similar voice, but it seems to be on most of the songs. JoAnn >From: Ellen Rawson >To: ecto@smoe.org >Subject: Re: Be Good Tanyas >Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 22:41:28 -0700 (PDT) > > > I've heard it a few times on our playstock. Not much > > stood out for me, other > > than that I forgot that it was playing until > > something else would come on. > > Which might suggest that it's better for more > > intimate listening than I was > > able to give it. > >I saw them live last summer. Unfortunately, the sound >was awful. (It was Union Chapel, which can vary a lot >with sound.) At one point, Darden Smith, the opening >act, unplugged his guitar and stepped away from the >mike. I could hear and understand him better. He was >upset about the sound. The Tanyas weren't thrilled -- >Um, I'm getting feedback from a guitar I'm not >playing... > >But I liked them. I tried to see them back in >February, but the venue had a BAD leaky roof that >night -- was leaking backstage, water was pouring >onstage, etc. And the show was cancelled. Saw Erin >McKeown do her opening act, though -- very nice and a >good pairing with the Tanyas. > >Ellen > > >===== >"Literature stops in 1100. After that, it's just books." >-- JRR Tolkien - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 20:35:43 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Reminder: Sloan Wainwright at the House O'Muzak This Sunday Hi, Just a quick reminder that the incomparable Sloan Wainwright will be performing TOTALLY ACOUSTIC at the House O'Muzak in New Haven this Sunday afternoon, April 13 at 4 pm. She will be accompanied by Stephen Murphy on guitar, and Cary Brown on our piano. We still have plenty of seats left -- and trust me, you don't want to miss this one!! Please RSVP by responding to this e-mail, or calling us at 203-776-9325. Also, while I'm here: on April 27 we will close out our season with another can't-miss: Ruthie Foster. We'll start taking reservations early next week. Hope to see you here on Sunday! More info: =============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth =============================================== Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://muzak.smoe.org NEXT UP: Sloan Wainwright, 4/13 =============================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:45:29 -0700 From: "William Mazur" Subject: RE: production and the lack thereof Greg, i've seen and heard recording sessions where the allegedly hip, earthy singer/songwriter is playing a $4000 guitar through a bevy of $2000 microphones, with a small team of technicians to point the one at the other; and sessions where the sounds were constructed with a radio, a reel-to-reel, a razor blade, and some sticky tape (see my "n.p." below for an example of the latter). as far as i can tell, the effectiveness, beauty, impact, soul, of a piece has little to do with the tools with which it is made, and a lot to do with how you use them. (a favorite peeve for me along this line is Sarah McLachlan -- i find much of her later solo piano and voice calculated to *sound* heartfelt, when for me it is much less so than the heavily manipulated studio work of "Fumbling Towards Ecstasy) Excellent points! Sometimes the appearance of a simple set-up that is honest and heartfelt is anything but that. As you point out, that approach can be completely contrived while the full blown production with multiple edits (whether digital or via razor blade on tape) can have warmth, conviction and passion. It is all how you use the tools, the end result and how people react to it. Were you true to yourself and does somebody out there relate to your art? Hopefully the answer is "yes" on both counts. One thing about a performer in a live setting, with just a guitar or piano, their voice, their songs and their lyrics, is that they have to deliver the goods to make you feel it. That is probably why Donald likes Neil Young's version of Cowgirl in the Sand off of 4-Way Street. It has the passion and the honesty. another thought: i make guitars (and drums and rhumba boxes and wack-a-phones and stuff i don't yet have a name for) and i also use (and build and write) music software and electronics, and i can attest that a modern guitar is at least as arbitrary and contrived a contraption as the most synthetic musical gadget. I totally agree with this point as well. That is actually one of the things I like about guitar these days. There are lots of devices that allow you to make it sound like so many things and get so many textures. Jimi Hendrix, Steve Hackett and Robert Fripp are my biggest influences in that regard. However, synthesizers and guitars can sound completely cold and sterile in some hands. Too me that is not a good thing, unless the artist was specifically going for the cold and sterile approach. I always like the quote from Roger Waters (the smart ass, pain-in-the ass, cynical genius) from the documentary Pink Floyd - Live at Pompeii. The interviewer was asking whether the electronics that Pink Floyd used had taken over them or if they were masters of it and were using it creatively. This interview took place during the recording of Dark Side of the Moon. Roger suggested that it would be an interesting experiment to put four people in the recording studio and see what they could do with the technology made available to them. He said something like "Just because you give a man a Les Paul guitar it doesn't mean he can sound like Eric Clapton. Just because you give them a synthesizer they won't sound like us. But the technology to create new and interesting music is out there, if you could be bothered. And we could be bothered." There was a time (in the 80s) when synthesizers were coming into their own but were considered to be cold and sterile. Some of the criticism was justified. I read a review by a critic that said something like "when you hear the solo that Kit Watkins does on "Ice" (from Camel's I Can See Your House From Here) you will believe that the synthesizer is anything but cold and sterile". This was not the exact quote but something along those lines. I completely agree(d) with that statement. Whenever I listen to that track, Andy Latimer's guitar playing and Kit Watkin's synthesizer playing always brings me to tears. The passion on that track is so powerful it is almost overwhelming. it is easy to let the constant barrage of, erm, "produced music" sour one to musical production, when the latter -- traced in a jagged sort of line connecting Pierre Schaeffer to George Martin to Brian Eno to Aphex Twin and on, and not skipping a teenage Happy piecing together synth tracks -- is one of the great musical achievements of this century. also a lot of fun. You definitely picked four of the most innovative producers of the 20th century. They all definitely re-wrote the rules and made the musicians and/or music that they worked with/on more potent. Their creativity was essential. They made music that was never heard before and I can't imagine being without it. Some of it I don't even really care for. But it was necessary that it was created. I am huge fan of George Martin and Eno. I not the biggest fan of musique concrete, but Schaeffer's influence on electronic music is undeniable. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 19:50:22 -0700 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: production and the lack thereof William Mazur wrote: >Excellent points! Sometimes the appearance of a simple set-up that is >honest and heartfelt is anything but that. > I believe it was David Lee Roth who said, "Sincerity is everything. Once you can fake that you can get away with anything." Or someone or something like that. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 20:00:02 -0700 From: "William Mazur" Subject: RE: production? And I'm a card-carrying 70s prog-rock fan--there's nothing simple about production or arrangement of Yes, Genesis, King Crimson, etc. etc. Me too Donald! Most of the folks here already know that though. ;-) So there's no simple equation here. No, but that's what makes it fun. how about a Jon Anderson solo acoustic guitar version of =Tales from Topographic Oceans?). But a lot of music makes its most direct impact in as simple a form as possible. I want to hear that! It would be very interesting to see the essence of Jon's musical creation. Of course the rest of the boys added a lot! Actually that comment really makes me laugh. Before I had the $$$ or the access to recording equipment, I was going out on auditions playing my prog rock song compositions on acoustic guitar and singing to the best of my abilities. It used to completely chagrin me to hear supposedly creative musicians tell me "that doesn't sound like prog rock to me. It sounds like folk music." I would try to explain about the Tony Banks keyboard intro I was hearing going into the Camel influenced part with a Chris Squire bass line underneath. Some of these guys just never got it. Fortunately, I finally found a group of musicians that did understand where I was coming from. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 23:00:27 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: New Happy song Hi, Tamar whined: >For those of you who are feeling envious of the attendees of Happy's first >house concert, consider how I feel: I used to live in that very >apartment!!!!! That's *my* living room and I wasn't there!!!!! Those are >even the couches I left behind!!! That's what you get for getting the hell out of Yale. You shoulda just stuck around. ;> =============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth =============================================== Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://muzak.smoe.org NEXT UP: Sloan Wainwright, 4/13 =============================================== ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V9 #100 **************************