From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V8 #203 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Monday, July 22 2002 Volume 08 : Number 203 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Janis Ian article [Joseph Zitt ] Re: Janis Ian article [Ellen Rawson ] Re: Janis Ian article ["Marcelo E. Magallon" ] Re: Janis Ian article [Joseph Zitt ] Re: iva bittova [Joseph Zitt ] re: janis ian article ["dave" ] Long article about the upcoming Sleater-Kinney album [Michael Curry ] Re: Janis Ian article [andrew fries ] Letter from Tracy Grammer (was Dave Carter) ["Troy J. Shadbolt" Subject: Re: Janis Ian article On Sat, 20 Jul 2002 19:26:19 -0400 (EDT) Sue Trowbridge wrote: > On Sun, 21 Jul 2002, Marcelo E. Magallon wrote: > > > Record companies swear they are loosing money because of P2P > > and their response is to increase the price of the CDs (or not to > > decrease them). If I take into account that production costs are > > *well* under US$ 2, how come I'm still paying US$ 15+ for a CD? > > For the record, as the owner of a label that has released five CDs, > this argument irks me. Yes, it costs us about $1.40 to manufacture one > CD. But that doesn't take into account the fact that in most cases, we > have paid for all or at least a portion of the studio time, artwork, > producer, mastering, legal fees, royalties if there are any cover > songs on the CD, etc. And then there are the costs of promotion & > advertising. As the part-owner of another small label, I strongly agree. Hmm.... I just deleted several grumpy paragraphs I had written in support of the argument, but yeah, what Sue wrote nails it pretty well. - -- | josephzitt@josephzitt.com http://www.josephzitt.com/ | | http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/ http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt/ | | == New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems == | | Comma / Gray Code Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 03:19:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Ellen Rawson Subject: Re: Janis Ian article - --- "Marcelo E. Magallon" wrote: >If I take into account that production costs are *well* under US$ 2, how come I'm still paying US$ 15+ for a CD? But that's cheap. US $15? Try UK #15. (On the current exchange rate, that's US $23.) When my husband and I go to the US, we stock up on inexpensive CDs on every trip. We wish we could bring back cheap petrol also. ;) Ellen, who saves money on CDs by writing freelance reviews for various webzines (I'm not paid for the reviews, but I'm sent free CDs). ===== "Literature stops in 1100. After that, it's just books." - -- JRR Tolkien Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 16:21:47 +0200 From: "Marcelo E. Magallon" Subject: Re: Janis Ian article >> Sue Trowbridge writes: > For the record, as the owner of a label that has released five CDs, > this argument irks me. Yes, it costs us about $1.40 to manufacture > one CD. But that doesn't take into account the fact that in most > cases, we have paid for all or at least a portion of the studio time, > artwork, producer, mastering, legal fees, royalties if there are any > cover songs on the CD, etc. And then there are the costs of promotion > & advertising. I oversimplified of course. It's clear to me that manufacturing is not the only factor involved in the final price of a CD. It think it's a perception issue. There's plenty of things (in the entertainment sector) that cost more than US$15 (e.g., US$40+ computer games) and people pay for those. The question is what makes people think that a CD is *not* worth US$15 and prefer to copy it instead? I just don't buy the "because it's easy" argument, but that might be me, I put way too much value into the CD itself (the physical thing: cover, case, etc) and I have paid well over US$ 15 for many CDs I own (I have also paid well under that ammount). I *do* have ripped copies of some CDs, but that's stuff that's hard to obtain by other means... at a reasonable price that is (just try to get a CD which is already rare in Argentina shipped from there to Europe -- you can do it, but the artist gets US$1 and a whole lot other people get to enjoy the other US$39) > I do agree that major labels are often very unfair toward artists, > but I understand the appeal of having a really big promotional > machine behind you. Being on my label is never going to make anyone > rich, I'm afraid! :) :) - -- MArcelo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 17:04:03 +0200 From: "Marcelo E. Magallon" Subject: Re: Janis Ian article >> andrew fries writes: > Not so - both the music and the rules are her label's, not hers. Well, yes. But the way I see it, it's still her rules. She signed her rights over to her label. From a court's point of view, her wishes are her label's wishes... > Which is a big part of the problem! ... but I agree here. > But it becomes a problem when that somebody is a giant conglomerate > of corporations who are in fact making choices about OUR rights not > about their products. I could say "noone forced her to sign with her label". I won't because I know that's not 100% true. But yes, I agree. Part of the problem is that the big corporations are trying to redefine what "fair use" means. > if it empowers the consumer they will try to make it illegal, > technically impossible, or too expensive. Preferably all three. Technically impossible is, well, impossible. This *is* music. You get to hear it at some point. As long as you can hear it you'll be able to make copies. They might not be 1 to 1 copies, but that's hardly a problem. Lossly compression is not a 1 to 1 copy (duh) and only a minority has a (significant) problem with that. They may make it harder, but at some point you have to start hitting air molecules, they can't have a 100% digital path to your brain (*shudder*). I hope the general public is at least smarter than *that*. > Have a look at that proposal that would legalize hacker-style, > technical attacks on P2P networks. Have a look at the "trusted > hardware" concept, which actually means "your hardware is trusted, > not you"... and then tell me all this is to protect Brittney's > royalties! Well, it's not. :) If you are pessimistic, you could say this is proof enough for the eventual existance of a 100% digital path to your brain... :-( > And that is exactly what they are afraid of. It's not just that they > want us to pay for our copy of Brittney, perhaps above all they just > don't want us to buy something else *instead* of Brittney! Well, yes, that's natural I guess. They have been exploiting musicians for decades and getting rich thanks to that. Suddenly there's people out there that's able to make good music *and* distribute it all over the world... without the need for a big record label. The big corporatons are protecting their gold mine. Wars have been fought over this very kind of thing. This being the XXI century just means (this kind of) wars are not fought with guns anymore. > Please don't tell me if I don't like Microsoft I can just use another > OS, and if I don't like Brittney I can just ignore her.At the moment, I > still can, but for how long? I would be perfectly happy with that > arrangement, but unfortunately they are not. EVEN IF ALL YOU TRY TO DO > IS LEAVE, THEY WILL STILL COME AFTER YOU! /me sends the black choppers over to andrew's - -- Marcelo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:35:06 -0400 (EDT) From: "Donald G. Keller" Subject: iva bittova I was in Downtown Music Gallery (one of the best places to find out-of-the-way recordings in NYC) yesterday, and discovered that they had several Iva Bittova CDs in stock. I haven't gotten into her music so far, but I know she has a number of fans on this list, so I took down the names of the CDs for their information: =Cikori= [inverted circumflex on that C]: This is apparently the most recent one. The store owner says it's really great. BARTOK: 44 Violin Duets (sorry, didn't write down the name of the other violinist). This is one of Bartok's teaching-pieces (like =Mikrokosmos= for piano), and features a series of short pieces arranged from or influenced by Balkan and North African folk music (on which Bartok was an expert). Not as complex and intense as the string quartets, but very good, and it should be interesting to hear Iva Bittova play this. =Divine= (Slecnika) =Ne Nehledej= =Bile Inferno= (2 CD set) =Svatba=: This is an old one, and I imagine most people know about it. Downtown Music Gallery 211 East 5th Street New York, NY 10003 (212) 473-0043 (212) 533-5059 fax DTMGallery.com dmg@panix.com The owner says he's the only store carrying most of these CDs in New York. If any of you decide to order through them, mention my name and that I was in the store talking about Iva Bittova this weekend. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:41:57 -0700 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Janis Ian article On Sun, 21 Jul 2002 17:04:03 +0200 "Marcelo E. Magallon" wrote: > >> andrew fries writes: > > > Not so - both the music and the rules are her label's, not hers. > > Well, yes. But the way I see it, it's still her rules. She signed > her rights over to her label. From a court's point of view, her > wishes are her label's wishes... Tell that to Michael Jackson and Sony. Or to Aimee Mann. Or to Robert Fripp and EG. Or... - -- | josephzitt@josephzitt.com http://www.josephzitt.com/ | | http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/ http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt/ | | == New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems == | | Comma / Gray Code Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:44:31 -0700 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: iva bittova On Sun, 21 Jul 2002 13:35:06 -0400 (EDT) "Donald G. Keller" wrote: > Downtown Music Gallery > 211 East 5th Street > New York, NY 10003 > (212) 473-0043 > (212) 533-5059 fax > DTMGallery.com > dmg@panix.com > > The owner says he's the only store carrying most of these CDs in New > York. If any of you decide to order through them, mention my name and > that I was in the store talking about Iva Bittova this weekend. If there were suddenly only one CD store in the world, I hope that this store's good karma would keep it in the running. (And I say this being in the dangerous position of now being able to walk to Amoeba and Rasputin in Berkeley...) - -- | josephzitt@josephzitt.com http://www.josephzitt.com/ | | http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/ http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt/ | | == New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems == | | Comma / Gray Code Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 18:05:55 -0400 From: "dave" Subject: re: janis ian article Well, I have to say Marcelo is one of the first people I've seen actually make some sense on this subject. While I don't agree with a lot of the music industry's practices, it is their legal right to determine how their product is distributed. We would do better to fix what's wrong with the industry than to do away with it altogether. Many people now see downloading music for free as a way of fighting the big corporations, but there's nothing stopping people from downloading independant artists' music either. This may seem like a good way to get some exposure, but if it doesn't produce sales it doesn't do much good. The vast majority of the public doesn't feel the same obligation to support an artist that people on a mailing list such as this one do, if they can get something for free they will. np: Thalia (okay.. the Devil made me buy this CD..) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 18:24:11 -0400 From: Michael Curry Subject: Long article about the upcoming Sleater-Kinney album The text of this SK article from Neumu.net was posted to the SK mailing list, so I thought I'd forward it to ecto. One Beat is supposed to be out on August 20th! - ---------- Sleater-Kinney Imagine A Better World Born out of a post-Sept. 11 worldview, the upcoming Sleater-Kinney album, One Beat, due out Aug. 20 on Kill Rock Stars, holds out hope for humankind, challenging us to change both our thinking and our actions. (Check out Neumu's previous story, "Late Summer Release For Sleater-Kinney's One Beat.") "What if our lives were totally different? What if we could invent something brand new?" singer/guitarist/songwriter Corin Tucker asked as she discussed the album's title track at a Portland coffee shop, sharing a table with her two bandmates, vocalist/guitarist/songwriter Carrie Brownstein and drummer Janet Weiss. "We could be on the brink of our world going a vastly different direction," Tucker continued. "Especially because of what happened with Sept. 11 and the ways the old machinery of the government clicked into place: 'Get those bombs ready, get your cars gassed out.' All of that old-time thinking was ready to go, ready to be in place." "Could I turn this place all upside down/ Shake you and your fossils out?" Tucker sings on "One Beat." The words flutter, tremble then fall from her mouth with fierce passion and urgency. "If I'm to run the future/ You've got to let the Old World go/ Could you invent a world for me?/ I need to hear a symphony." In the coffee shop she explained, "That song is, from the point of view of the invention, saying, 'I am the new possibility. I am the new generation and you would be so lucky if you would open your mind to me.'" Acknowledging such problems as the United States' oil-driven economy and its connection to the U.S. presence in the Middle East, Tucker is nonetheless hopeful that a new age will dawn. "Problems that we're faced with today are in some part because of that traditional thinking," Tucker said. "What if we could let go of this old way of living (and) put our energy into that instead of gearing up the military just like we've always done? And instead we used our thinkers and our scientists to help create a different mode of society?" Throughout their eight years together, Sleater-Kinney have been known for the thoughtful, often political, discourse within their noisy yet melodic punk-influenced rock. But the impassioned songs rumbling and shaking through One Beat might make it the most engaging of all Sleater-Kinney albums. "The idea of One Beat is the idea of holding onto that one thing we might have in common, which is hoping that things will get better and that we can do our part to try and make it better," Tucker said. "Why can't I get along with you?" Tucker wails, as if she's fallen to her knees in desperation on "Far Away," a song that refers to Sept. 11. "Turn on the TV/ Watch the world explode in flames/ And don't leave the house/ Don't breathe the air today." The 12-song album -- produced by John Goodmanson at Jackpot! Studio in Portland, Ore., this past March -- balances the serious subjects of many of the songs with fun, catchy melodies and dance-y, occasionally funky rhythms. "['Step Aside'] was the last song we wrote for the album," Tucker said, "and it was a really collaborative process saying, 'We need a really fun song, a dance song.' We worked on it all together and then the lyrics came about in the studio. We all helped with the lyrics; Janet wrote some of the lyrics." "Two lines," Weiss said, laughing. Joking about last-minute studio prepping as they sat around the coffee shop's red, '50s-diner-style, chrome-legged table, Brownstein called Weiss "Dr. Lyric," deepened her voice to an ultra-serious tone like an ER doctor going into surgery and said, "I'm going in for five minutes, can you be here?" Getting serious, Brownstein described the thinking behind "Step Aside," which includes such lines as "These times are troubled/ These times are rough/ There's more to come/ But you can't give up/ Why don't you shake a tail for peace and love/ Move it up one time FOR LOVE/ JANET CARRIE CAN YOU HEAR IT/ Knife through the heart of our exploitation/ LADIES ONE TIME CAN YOU FEEL IT/ Disassemble our discrimination...." "In terms of the songs [on One Beat] that have to do with contemporary or current issues, it was the other end of the spectrum," Brownstein said. "It was much more of a call to arms or uplifting song. I've always thought those songs were funny; the ones that are about something serious but then they make it into a dance song -- 'C'mon people, get happy! You're sad so shake your ass!'" "Like dancing in the streets -- free your mind and your ass will follow," Weiss added. "Funkadelic was the master of that, writing these really sociopolitical songs as, like, shake your ass! Let's go crazy!" With vehement, lusty sounds set against poetic lyricism, Sleater- Kinney have been critics' favorites since the release of their second album, Call the Doctor, which included the underground "hit" "I Wanna Be Your Joey Ramone." The group has been on the cover of Punk Planet while being named "America's Best Rock Band" by Time magazine in 2001. Renowned rock critic Greil Marcus has championed them in such publications as Interview, Esquire and the New York Times. Moving from jagged, thrashing tunes to an increasingly polished and fuller, albeit still punk, music, the band has evolved while maintaining a unique sound that's instantly recognizable as Sleater- Kinney. Tucker's and Brownstein's guitars clash and mingle like noise and pop, Tucker's idiosyncratic wails quiver, hiccup and carry with soul. Weiss keeps the songs grounded with her masterful rock drumming. Founded in Olympia, Wash., in 1994, Sleater-Kinney have developed both as record makers and live performers. They've worked to keep things fresh. "I think it's natural to want to progress from one album to the next," Brownstein said. "When we started writing this album, we felt like, this is our sixth album, there's no reason to do anything similar to what we've already done. "We had no expectations, nothing hanging over us," she continued. "So, with each specific song, we challenged ourselves and spent a lot of time editing and sculpting the songs. There's no major motivation except just the internal sense of wanting to grow. "We used to rely heavily on the intuitive process, and that works and continues to work, but we realized our first idea wasn't always the best," Brownstein said. "So, we did a lot of rethinking on each song, going back and changing our parts if they didn't work the first time." Certainly One Beat's most touching, emotional song is the blues- inspired, stripped-down closing track "Sympathy." It was partially inspired by the birth of Tucker's son, who was nine weeks premature. "That song evolved as this really bluesy number," Tucker said. "When we wrote the music for it, it was a very different thing -- I'm stuck outside myself and singing in this really bluesy, gutsy way. "When I started singing, it really connected on a personal level for me," she continued. "It's about spirituality and about being thankful for the things that are most important for you. It stems from my experience having my son, having it not be an easy thing at all -- it was definitely a difficult time. But just being so thankful that he's a healthy guy and that my family is strong and together.... I think it's easy to take that for granted. It's something that all of a sudden there was a moment for me when I pictured losing the thing that is most important to me, and that was a very scary, scary thing." "I'm so sorry for those who didn't make it/ For the mommies who were left with a heartbreaker," Tucker sings, like an old '30s blues singer about to break down. "... Thanks for the love, for the joy, for the smile on his face." -- Jenny Tatone [Friday, July, 12 2002] - ---------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 18:03:37 -0600 From: Neal Copperman Subject: re: iva bittova I don't know if anyone is as rabid an iva bittova fan as I am, but here is a bit more info on what they have at the store. I put in an order for the 3 I didn't have (1,2,5). neal Here's what we have now with prices: 1. Cikori - $17. (her newest & perhaps best w/ small band) 2. Bartok violin duets - $17. 3. Ne Nehledej - $17. 4. Divna slecinka - $17. 5. Svatba - duo w/ Pavel Fajt - $16. (live June 1987) 6. Bile Inferno - 2 cd set for $25. - --we only have 1 or 2 copies of each, but do have more 'Cikori's' on order. all we need is your mailing address & credit card number in order to ship asap. Shipping is about $4. for first item & $1. for each additional item. thanks & take care, Bruce from DMG Downtown Music Gallery 211 East 5th Street New York, NY 10003 (212) 473-0043 (212) 533-5059 fax DTMGallery.com dmg@panix.com ------------------------------ Date: 22 Jul 2002 11:12:54 +1000 From: andrew fries Subject: Re: Janis Ian article On Mon, 2002-07-22 at 01:04, Marcelo E. Magallon wrote: > /me sends the black choppers over to andrew's Well, as the saying goes, "just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they aren't after you". Seriously though, things like our ability to pick computing platform of choice, to have Free Software available to us, to decide which types of music we want to support, and freedom to use our rightfully purchased CDs as we see fit - as it turns out, they are all not a part of natural order of things, they are not constitutional rights either - they are privileges we've won and we need to fight to maintain. - --------------------------------------------------------------------- "The earth has enough for everyone's needs, but not for some people's greed." - Gandhi - -- 10:20am up 10 days, 44 min, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 20:43:25 -0700 From: "Troy J. Shadbolt" Subject: Letter from Tracy Grammer (was Dave Carter) Dearest friends and sweet fans, I am with you in tears and bottomless sorrow. This loss is indescribable. He was endless spring to me, he was bountiful joy and gentleness and laughter. He was my soulmate, my partner in everything wordly and otherwise. I visited with him one last time today and he glowed golden and ageless. His sister and I agreed he looked like an angel. He was absolutely beautiful. Yesterday, shortly after he went unconscious, he came back for a lucid minute to two to tell me, "I just died... Baby, I just died..." There was a look of wonder in his eyes, and though I cried and tried to deny it to him, I knew he was right and he was on his way. He stayed with me a minute more but despite my attempts to keep him with me, I could see he was already riding that thin chiffon wave between here and gone. He loved beauty, he was hopelessly drawn to the magic and the light in all things. I figure he saw something he could not resist out of the corner of his eye and flew into it. Despite the fact that every rescue attempt was made by paramedics and hospital staff and the death pronouncement officially came at 12:08 pm Eastern Time, I believe he died in my arms in our favorite hotel, leaving me with those final words. That's the true story I am going to tell. I am so, so very moved by your recollections. I have a thousand hugs and tears and words waiting for whoever wants or needs them. I will meet you at Falcon Ridge on Saturday, if not before. We need to keep this music alive, it was always my mission that the world hear and know the poetry and vision and wonderful mystical magic of David Carter. This path is broad and long; I hope you will stay the course with me. In the center of our hotel window earlier tonight, by lamplight, came the shadow of a bird to my curtain. He held steady for a four flaps of the wing, maybe five, and then he pivoted away. My heart froze for an instant and then I felt some relief. I took this midnight messenger as a sign. You know that I have been desperate for a sign. My love to you, Tracy tracy@daveandtracy.com ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V8 #203 **************************