From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V8 #202 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Sunday, July 21 2002 Volume 08 : Number 202 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Today's your birthday, friend... [Mike Matthews ] Re: When I Go - Dave Carter [Ellen Rawson ] Re: When I Go - Dave Carter [Meredith Tarr ] [Fwd: Dave Carter] [Valerie Richardson ] additional information: Dave Carter ["Troy J. Shadbolt" ] Re: Janis Ian article [Sue Trowbridge ] Dave Carter: Falcon Ridge ["Troy J. Shadbolt" ] Re: Janis Ian article [andrew fries ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 03:00:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike Matthews Subject: Today's your birthday, friend... i*i*i*i*i*i i*i*i*i*i*i *************** *****HAPPY********* **************BIRTHDAY********* *************************************************** *************************************************************************** ********************* Jani Pinola (no Email address) ********************** *************************************************************************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Jani Pinola Thu July 20 1972 Jonquil Alvin Brattli Sun July 27 1969 Lefthanded Christy Eger Smith Thu July 27 1944 Horse Crossing Shirley Ye July 27 Lioness woj Sun July 28 1968 children at play John Relph Sat July 28 1962 Leo Bob Kollmeyer Wed July 28 1971 Leo Steve Lusky Tue July 29 1952 Bike! Kate Bush Wed July 30 1958 God Chuck Smith Wed July 30 1958 Reboot Yves Denneulin Fri July 30 1971 Lion-Heart Joel Kenyon Wed July 31 1963 Leo Eli Brandt August 05 Leo Amanda Williams Tue August 05 1969 phoenix Martin Bridges Sat August 08 1970 BigGuy Rosana L. de Oliveira Wed August 08 1973 Leo Happy Rhodes Mon August 09 1965 HolyGhost Michael Stevens Sat August 12 1967 For Sale or Lease Loretta Pontillo Tue August 15 1978 Leo Queen of the Jungle Martin Dougiamas Wed August 20 1969 Positive - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 00:56:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Ellen Rawson Subject: Re: When I Go - Dave Carter Since I was devastated by the news last night, I've been wondering -- how old was he? He wasn't *that* old... Please post more details when you have them. Thank you. Ellen ===== "Literature stops in 1100. After that, it's just books." - -- JRR Tolkien Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 13:22:57 -0400 From: Meredith Tarr Subject: Re: When I Go - Dave Carter Hi, Ellen requested: >Since I was devastated by the news last night, I've >been wondering -- how old was he? He wasn't *that* >old... > >Please post more details when you have them. Thank I'm not sure how old he was. I'm guessing early 40's, but I don't know for sure. Whatever the answer, it's clear that he was way too young to have his life cut short like this. :( I have seen details posted to other lists, which boil down to this: Dave and Tracy were scheduled to play at the Green River Festival in Greenfield, MA this weekend, and they were staying in Hadley, a town not too far away. Dave went out jogging yesterday morning, and fell ill when he came back. Tracy was able to revive him, but he passed out again by the time EMS arrived, and he was pronounced dead at the hospital. The entire contemporary folk music community is in shock. I'm interested to see what the Falcon Ridge organizers do next weekend. Quite a few of Dave and Tracy's musician friends are going to be there, so I expect there will be some sort of a tribute. This just goes to show ... don't ever pass up a chance to see a musician you're interested in. You never know if you're ever going to get another chance. Sometimes the Universe just makes no damned sense. :( Meredith meth@smoe.org ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 13:59:08 -0400 From: Valerie Richardson Subject: [Fwd: Dave Carter] I'm forwarding this obit link that was posted on the folk-dj list. I feel such incredible sadness about Dave's death, and I never had a chance to see him in concert. - --Valerie Richardson Taylor Caffery wrote: > > Steve Jerrett wrote: > > > non-internet broadcasting yet). I have found some info on their website, > > the Yahoo discussion list and Dirty Linen, but so far no obit. Has > > anyone seen one posted yet? > > Obit in The Oregonian: > http://www.oregonlive.com/entertainment/oregonian/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/html_standard.xsl?/base/entertainment/102716620231342.xml > > --Taylor > > ______________________________________________________________________ > If going away for a while, don't unsubscribe -- suspend your FOLKDJ-L > subscription with the NOMAIL command. Details at http://folkradio.org. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 15:47:08 -0700 From: "Troy J. Shadbolt" Subject: additional information: Dave Carter (this was posted to the dave & tracy mailing list which, as you can all imagine, is an outpouring of emotions and sadness at this time) Dale Barcellos wrote: I just talked to Daryll Purpose who spent this sad day with Tracy Grammer. Dave fell ill this morning at approximately 11:00 am in his Holiday Express hotel room in Hadley (or Handley) Mass. He had just returned from jogging and felt the tell tail distress in his left arm. After drawing a bath he apparently told Tracy things were getting worse and at some point she called for help and after he lost consciousness she attempted to resucitate him. He briefly returned to consiousness reporting that to his amazement he had indeed died. She assured him that he was still with her and that he was not dead. He again lost consciousness was taken away by emergency personal and pronounced dead a short time later. Whether or not this is exactly how it happened I can't varify since Darryl himself was in a state of shock. As Dave says however never let the facts get in the way of the truth. His was a life of profound grace and beauty even to the very end. None of us knew Dave's actual age- he didn't really like to share personal information, however, his lovely sister participates in the dave & tracy mailing list and said he was three years her senior, and we now her to be 40, so that would make Dave 43. If ecto would like me to, I will continue to update as I hear more information. Visit Dave & Tracy's website, buy a CD, send a note, whatever. http://www.daveandtracy.com - -troy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 00:41:34 +0200 From: "Marcelo E. Magallon" Subject: Re: Janis Ian article delurk... I hope this gets thru, I don't want to use my subscription address to post to the list. Hi people, since I'm delurking, I'd like to say something I've been meaning to say for a while: you guys are great! This list is fantastic! >> Bill Adler writes: > There's a good article by Janis Ian about the recording industry and > online music at ZDnet.com. She discusses how the needs of musicians > and the record industry are often at odds. (To say the least.) > > The article is at http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1107-944735.html. I have to concur. This is a great article on this topic. I'm a Free Software supporter, contributor and developer, and for this reason copyright issues are important to me. Perhaps I have to explain what Free Software is, some people on this list might not be familiar with the term. "Free Software" is a term used by the Free Software Foundation (FSF for short) to describe a class of software that meets certain characteristics namely: when you get a computer program, you get the source code (human readable description of the program) that can be used to recreate the program, you are allowed to distribute this source, you can use this source in your own programs and you can do pretty much whatever you want with the program. The one condition is that you have to grant others the same rights. This is particularly important in the case you reuse the source you get in this way in your own programs: if you do that, you have to distribute your entire program under these conditions. This little explaination is formalized in legal terms in the form of several software licenses. And this is where copyright law plays an important role: the whole thing is based arround it (and an honor system, of course). That means that if I suspect that someone is in violation of my copyright (that is, someone is not following the terms of my program's license), I can use all the copyright machinery to defend the rights I have on my program. Ok, "so what?" you are asking yourself? What's that got to do with music? A lot, in fact. We programmers think of our programs in the same way musicians think of their music: as intellectual creations, as a form of expression. By sharing our programs, we are effectively communicating to whoever might want to read us. We are also bulding up on other people's work, much like DJs build up on other musicians' work. In that sense, it is my desire that as many people as possible have access to my programs. I could just put my programs on the net and let everyone do whatever they want with the program. Why complicate things for myself with all this license non-sense? Because I think that credit is to be given where credit is due, same as with music. I'm ok with a musician taking other musician's work and building up on it, but I expect to see both names somewhere on the final product. And what's that got to do with P2P systems? Easy. In the same way that I have my views and opinions regarding software distribution and development, I admit other programmers have their own views. Some of them want every user of their programs to pay something for a copy of their programs. They don't want you to make copies of the CDs and give them to your friends. And that's ok with me. I can understand that. In the same way that I respect these wishes, I expect them to respect mine. I don't want them taking my work, incorporating it to their programs, ignore my license terms and leave me in the dust. I don't see P2P as the source of all evil. That's only a distribution medium. I do have a problem with someone ripping Britney's latest CD and making it available for everyone to download. I don't care about Britney's music, but she doesn't want people to distribute her music that way. Her problem. She gets enough media coverage and she probably thinks she doesn't need the extra publicity. Ok. She makes her music, she gets to set her rules. Her rules say people have to pay for her music to get it. If people want to do that, well, it's other people's problem, not mine. Her rules also say that if people want to have a preview of the CD, they have to watch her videos, listen to her songs on the radio or go to her performances. People might go as far as borrowing someone else's CD and listen to it. But she doesn't want people to "copy" the CD first and buy it later. Fine. Her music, her rules. The way I see it, P2P is a fantastic medium for the musicians who don't even get 1% of the media coverage Britney gets. There's lots of people making great music out there. Just yesterday I was listening to an audio stream from WOPN (http://www.wopn.org/). I listened for about 3-4 hours, and I discovered *at least* three artists from which I had never heard before, from which I would had otherwise probably never hear from and that I liked much. The thing with WOPN is that they get *written permission* from the artists before broadcasting anything from them. *That* I like. In that sense I like what Janis says about letting people download the music you produce. Yes, "previewing" CDs is a great use for P2P, but I want to have permission from the artist to let others "preview" the CDs I have bought. Just letting others "preview" CDs without this permission doesn't work. Why? Because I'm going against the artist's license conditions. If I expect people to respect mine, I have to start by respecting theirs. I dislike the idea of just ripping any CD and making it available for others to download. And as you might have guessed by now, I don't like P2P free riders much. And by transitivity, I don't like P2P systems much, either. Why? Hazarding a guess, 4 out of 5 of the P2P users that I know *personally* are free riders. And they don't care about discovering new artists. They care about not having to pay for the music of the artists they already know. Besides the copyright issues which I hope I have managed to explain, I also dislike the fact that the whole thing affects me even if I'm not involved: first, I can't just buy a CD anymore. Now I have to make sure the thing is actually a Compact Disc, instead of some "copy protected" piece of crap. Hello? I bought the thing. If I want to nail it to the wall, it's my problem. If I want to compress it and store it on my hard disk along with thousands of other files that come from CDs that I have also bought, that's *my* problem. Suddenly I have to jump thru all sorts of loops to do the things I am *entitled* to do. Second, now I paying not only for the music that I have bought, but *also* for the music that others haven't. Record companies swear they are loosing money because of P2P and their response is to increase the price of the CDs (or not to decrease them). If I take into account that production costs are *well* under US$ 2, how come I'm still paying US$ 15+ for a CD? The point is the whole system is broken, and people, instead of working *with* it and fixing it, are working *against* it and making it worse for everyone. Thanks for reading, Marcelo ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 19:02:20 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: additional information: Dave Carter Hi, >None of us knew Dave's actual age- he didn't really like to share >personal information, however, his lovely sister participates in the >dave & tracy mailing list and said he was three years her senior, and we >now her to be 40, so that would make Dave 43. Not that it really matters ... but the obit in the Oregonian said he was 49. Either way, *much* too young. :( I vote for updates ... particularly if news surfaces regarding memorials, someplace to send donations in his memory, etc. ============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth ============================================== Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://www.smoe.org/meth/muzak.html ============================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 19:26:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Sue Trowbridge Subject: Re: Janis Ian article On Sun, 21 Jul 2002, Marcelo E. Magallon wrote: > Record companies swear they are loosing money because of P2P > and their response is to increase the price of the CDs (or not to > decrease them). If I take into account that production costs are > *well* under US$ 2, how come I'm still paying US$ 15+ for a CD? For the record, as the owner of a label that has released five CDs, this argument irks me. Yes, it costs us about $1.40 to manufacture one CD. But that doesn't take into account the fact that in most cases, we have paid for all or at least a portion of the studio time, artwork, producer, mastering, legal fees, royalties if there are any cover songs on the CD, etc. And then there are the costs of promotion & advertising. We keep our prices low (between $10-14 if you order the CDs through the web site...they are usually more expensive in stores, because of the middlemen involved) but believe me, there are a lot more costs involved in releasing a CD than just the manufacturing. I do agree that major labels are often very unfair toward artists, but I understand the appeal of having a really big promotional machine behind you. Being on my label is never going to make anyone rich, I'm afraid! :) - --Sue ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 20:29:58 -0700 From: "Troy J. Shadbolt" Subject: Dave Carter: Falcon Ridge I think this is truly the kind of tribute Dave would appreciate. - -t > Dear Friends, > > Many of you have heard the very sad and tragic news of Dave Carter's untimely death following a massive heart attack 2 days ago. Although the festivals will certainly go on and still be as festive and > wonderful as we can make them, we know Dave would have wanted it that way, we will sorely miss him, and Tracy as well. We can't begin to imagine the loss this is for her. We > have decided we will not replace Dave Carter & Tracy Grammer on mainstage or in any workshop set they planned to be in either. They are not replaceable as > far as we are concerned and it just seems that this is not the appropriate thing to do. Instead, we are planning a tribute for their Sat night Mainstage spot. That spot will feature the songs of Dave Carter as it > was meant to be. The set is on Main on Sat night 7:20 to 8:30P and will feature several FRFF featured artists including Chris & Meredith Thompson, Nerissa & Katryna Nields, Erin McKeown and others > to be announced. Other artists will also contribute Dave Carter songs to some of the workshops Dave & Tracy would have done. Dave Carter's songs will go on as planned in those spots. The loss of Dave > Carter to this community is a tragedy beyond words. He was one of the most gifted songwriters ever in this world. > > Anne Saunders > > Falcon Ridge Folk Festival ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jul 2002 15:23:23 +1000 From: andrew fries Subject: Re: Janis Ian article On Sun, 2002-07-21 at 08:41, Marcelo E. Magallon wrote: > I do have a problem with someone ripping Britney's latest CD and making > it available for everyone to download. I don't care about Britney's > music, but she doesn't want people to distribute her music that way. > Her problem. She gets enough media coverage and she probably thinks > she doesn't need the extra publicity. Ok. She makes her music, she > gets to set her rules. Her rules say people have to pay for her music > to get it. If people want to do that, well, it's other people's > problem, not mine. Her rules also say that if people want to have a > preview of the CD, they have to watch her videos, listen to her songs > on the radio or go to her performances. People might go as far as > borrowing someone else's CD and listen to it. But she doesn't want > people to "copy" the CD first and buy it later. Fine. Her music, her > rules. Not so - both the music and the rules are her label's, not hers. Which is a big part of the problem! In principle I would agree that yes, whoever makes the product should have a right to make the rules on how it should be distributed, whether they want to give it freely to anyone who wants it, or would they be rather paid for every time it is ever played. As long as that is an individual choice made on individual basis I can afford to shrug and say fine, whatever. But it becomes a problem when that somebody is a giant conglomerate of corporations who are in fact making choices about OUR rights not about their products. In any case, all this talk about protection of their rights is just a smoke screen. Whatever PR spin they might put on it, the aim is not to stop distribution of their music on P2P networks but to prevent all sharing and distributing of any content altogether by any channel other than their own. Be it Net radio, P2P networks. CD burners - if it empowers the consumer they will try to make it illegal, technically impossible, or too expensive. Preferably all three. Have a look at that proposal that would legalize hacker-style, technical attacks on P2P networks. Have a look at the "trusted hardware" concept, which actually means "your hardware is trusted, not you"... and then tell me all this is to protect Brittney's royalties! > The way I see it, P2P is a fantastic medium for the musicians who don't > even get 1% of the media coverage Britney gets. There's lots of people > making great music out there. And that is exactly what they are afraid of. It's not just that they want us to pay for our copy of Brittney, perhaps above all they just don't want us to buy something else *instead* of Brittney! Like all others who managed to corner their markets they've learned it is easier, cheaper and more effective to eliminate competition than to strive for a superior product. Yes, I am thinking of Microsoft... Please don't tell me if I don't like Microsoft I can just use another OS, and if I don't like Brittney I can just ignore her.At the moment, I still can, but for how long? I would be perfectly happy with that arrangement, but unfortunately they are not. EVEN IF ALL YOU TRY TO DO IS LEAVE, THEY WILL STILL COME AFTER YOU! - --------------------------------------------------------------------- "The earth has enough for everyone's needs, but not for some people's greed." - Gandhi - -- 12:20pm up 9 days, 2:44, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.11-- ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V8 #202 **************************