From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V8 #65 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Wednesday, March 6 2002 Volume 08 : Number 065 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: web page picture resolutions? [Neal Copperman ] Patty Larkin Australian tour dates [Sherlyn Koo ] Re: Models of surviving as a recording artist. [Greg Bossert ] Re: Models of surviving as a recording artist. [Jessica Koeppel ] re: undressed pop stars ["Michael Pearce" ] re: undressed pop stars [Sarah Anne Smith ] Nikki Costa... smells like Tap Spirit [Phil Hudson ] mn<-->mmoh ["Donald G. Keller" ] Re: undressed pop stars [Joseph Zitt ] Re: Nikka Costa? [gSs ] Re: Nikka Costa? [Sue Trowbridge ] Re:Grant Hart [Neal Copperman ] Re: Nikka Costa... smells like Tap Spirit [Neal Copperman ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 01:00:51 -0700 From: Neal Copperman Subject: Re: web page picture resolutions? Thanks to all for their feedback. While it didn't exactly get me a picture I needed, it did address a lot of my ignorance. neal np: that boston songwriter thing still (though not constantly, as I did wander out to see a strange, low key concert by Grant Hart, who remarcably played a 70 minute set in which I knew all but two songs. I didn't realize I had so many Husker Du, Nova Mob, Grant Hart albums. A lot of those songs I hadn't heard for at least a decade. He played a ton of Husker songs, which were pretty cool to hear in a solo mode: Girl Who Lived On Heaven Hill; Charity, Chastity, Prudence and Faith; Green Eyes; Books About UFO's; She Floated Away; Sorry Somehow; and on and on) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 19:21:54 +1100 From: Sherlyn Koo Subject: Patty Larkin Australian tour dates Whoohoo! 8-10 March 2002 Port Fairy, VIC - Port Fairy Folk Festival 12-13 March 2002 Adelaide, SA - The Famous Spiegeltent/Adelaide Fringe 16 March 2002 Mordialac, VIC - Fine Food, Wine, and Music by the Bay 16-17 March 2002 Katoomba, NSW - Blue Mountains Folk Festival 21 March 2002 Sydney, NSW - The Harp 22-23 March 2002 Frankston, VIC - Frankston International Guitar Festival 24 March 2002 Brunswick, VIC - Brunswick Town Hall 27 March 2002 Toowoomba, NSW - Empire Theatre 29-30 March 2002 Byron Bay, NSW - East Coast Blues and Roots Festival Unfortunately I'm only going to be able to make the NSW shows. I was hoping to make it down to Victoria but unfortunately recent events in my life have precluded that possibility. Hope to see some of you there - sherlyn - -- Sherlyn Koo - sherlyn@fl.net.au "And I swear, if I ever make it there, I'm gonna love out loud, 'til my heart breaks, 'Til my heart breaks..." - disappear fear ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:34:31 -0800 From: Greg Bossert Subject: Re: Models of surviving as a recording artist. On Monday, March 4, 2002, at 07:51 PM, meredith wrote: > Irvin mused: [good points all about alternate ways of being a musician and actually making some money at it!] >> If anyone knows how to get ahold of JOSS WHEDON, perhaps he could >> commission >> HAPPY to do the theme song for his new show FIREFLY...talk about great >> exposure... > > Oh wow, what an idea!! > > Joss Whedon is one of the people that make it an ordeal to read the > Wesleyan alumni magazine every month. It's his 15th reunion this May, > and my 10th ... I suggested to the reunion committee that they have him > in as a speaker -- why not, he comes back to campus once a year to talk > to a film class or do a seminar anyway. I have no idea if he's going > to be there, but if he is I could always slip him a CD. ;> well, BtVS has always been kind to unsigned groups... and has great taste in music, for which Mr. Whedon seems to be in some part responsible. just slip the CD or two inside a rare comic -- i mean, he's got to be a Gaiman fan, eh? > (Yeah, right. But it's fun to think about.) now if it was me, i'd be dubious. i mean, once upon a time and all i'd end up talking to Tori or Sarah or such with no great anxiety (heh, how did we end up sneaking backstage at the Limelight to hang out with Tribe? must of been jessica ;) but now i lead but a simple life. but Meredith, now, meth could do it. (this is known as "egging on" -- for the life of me i don't know why...) okay, i lied about the "no anxiety" bit. oh, and the "simple life", that's not real accurate. but the on-egging was sincere! :) i'll just 'tah off to bed now... - -g n.p. didjeridu (the little one from amsterdam, since it's after midnight and all) n.r. Patricia McKillip, "Ombria in Shadow" - -- "i have never been afraid to change the circumstances of the world" - -- Happy Rhodes - -- "except for bunnies..." - -- Anya ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 00:43:43 -0800 From: Greg Bossert Subject: Re: web page picture resolutions? On Tuesday, March 5, 2002, at 12:00 AM, Neal Copperman wrote: > np: that boston songwriter thing still (though not constantly, as I did > wander out to see a strange, low key concert by Grant Hart, who > remarcably played a 70 minute set in which I knew all but two songs. I > didn't realize I had so many Husker Du, Nova Mob, Grant Hart albums. A > lot of those songs I hadn't heard for at least a decade. huh. d'ya know if he is touring? probably so, probably already came through the bay area. i gotta start getting a paper or something. :-P > She Floated Away; Sorry Somehow; two songs i've always wanted to cover... footootles. - -g - -- "i have never been afraid to change the circumstances of the world" - -- Happy Rhodes - -- "except for bunnies..." - -- Anya ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 00:57:52 -0800 From: Jessica Koeppel Subject: Re: Models of surviving as a recording artist. >now if it was me, i'd be dubious. i mean, once upon a time and all i'd >end up talking to Tori or Sarah or such with no great anxiety (heh, how >did we end up sneaking backstage at the Limelight to hang out with >Tribe? must of been jessica ;) heh. that sure was fun. :) - -j ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:17:33 -0500 From: "Marcel Kshensky" Subject: CD Stores & Kate Bush Rodney asked: >I'm in Manhattan through Friday and was wondering if anyone could suggest some good stores to buy ectoish CDs. Being near the financial district and open at night would be big plusses. Two I'd highly recommend: 1. In the West Village, Joe's CD's West, 96 Christopher Street, 212/414-4099. They actually have a female vocal section with many Ectoish used CD's. 2. If you can get up to the upper west side, my fave is NYCD, 426 Amsterdam, between 80 & 81 St., 212/724-4466. If you buy 4 used CD's you get a fifth free. They usually have a good selection. > >------------------------------ irvin lin on: Models of surviving as a recording artist. > >And finally there is KATE BUSH, who hasn't played out since '79 was it? And when she did play, she only played what, three or four shows? > Kate established herself earlier in her career. Her live shows and videos were inspired. Her videos are still my favorites in that medium. Her songwriting and voice are incredible. I see her on a par with Joni Mitchell as an Ecto influence. Although she didn't tour much here, her popularity in Great Britain was immense and carried over to the US. Although never a superstar here, her album sales were always fairly good. 2,000,000,000 Web Pages--you only need 1. Save time with My Lycos. http://my.lycos.com ------------------------------ Date: 5 Mar 2002 09:38:52 -0800 From: "Michael Pearce" Subject: re: undressed pop stars At 1:55 AM -0500 3/5/02, anna maria "stjarnell" wrote: >hi.. >Though she is underdressed in her video i kinda like >Nikka Costa. Her stuff is hardly original, but lively. >Should we start a fund to give her more clothes i >wonder? We could call it the Kylie fund for >underdressed pop stars. >Anna Maria I like undressed pop stars, as long as there is more to them than simply that. It all started with Kate Bush in the "Breathing" video, or even Janis Joplin in her loose tops. But if all there is to offer is body with no talent, I'd rather go watch a stripper. Britney, Mariah, Christina, all the other one-name dancing 'droids, you listening? Michael PS: How can I forget some of Cyoakha's great costumes? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:06:59 -0800 (PST) From: Sarah Anne Smith Subject: re: undressed pop stars - --- Michael Pearce wrote: > Mariah, Christina, all the other one-name dancing I've always thought that it was a great pity that Mariah couldn't come up with something better to do with her voice, which is pretty amazing in terms of raw natural resource. S. ===== ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Science does not know its debt to imagination." - -Ralph Waldo Emerson Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:23:35 -0800 From: Phil Hudson Subject: Nikki Costa... smells like Tap Spirit I've enjoyed the cuts I've heard of Nikki, but her Flash website is a real eyesore. I couldn't even be bothered to get past the silly cartoons. The cartoon intro looks like it was designed by or for a couple of oversexed adolescent males in a bedroom somewhere in Novia Scotia. Jane Fonda did that space-kitten stuff once, back in her youth, and it ( Barbarella) has been a constant source of embarrassment to her since then (in addition to its possibly being one of the worst movies ever made!). Mikki's website opener reminds me of SNL's (I think) "Ambiguously Gay Duo" cartoon, which, outside of its basic premise, I find rather lame, (but doubtless a movie deal is already in the making, so WTF do I know?), or perhaps something that never made the final cut of Spinal Tap. I suppose that the question really revolves around: does one really want to record a cartoon of oneself for infinite posterity, dressed like an Iranian bushwacker's worst nightmare, sitting astride an oversized, flesh-colored rocket, (and badly drawn, to boot)? If anyone ever hears Nikki complaining that no-one is taking her music seriously, I suggest they point out to her that many artists get by with rather more restrained self-promotion. Phil, Grouchy today Hmmph! - -----Original Message----- From: Michael Pearce [mailto:mp@moonmac.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 9:39 AM To: ecto@smoe.org Subject: re: undressed pop stars At 1:55 AM -0500 3/5/02, anna maria "stjarnell" wrote: >hi.. >Though she is underdressed in her video i kinda like >Nikka Costa. Her stuff is hardly original, but lively. >Should we start a fund to give her more clothes i >wonder? We could call it the Kylie fund for >underdressed pop stars. >Anna Maria I like undressed pop stars, as long as there is more to them than simply that. It all started with Kate Bush in the "Breathing" video, or even Janis Joplin in her loose tops. But if all there is to offer is body with no talent, I'd rather go watch a stripper. Britney, Mariah, Christina, all the other one-name dancing 'droids, you listening? Michael PS: How can I forget some of Cyoakha's great costumes? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 14:06:39 -0500 From: "n'woj" Subject: siberry world cafe interview jane's interview on the world cafe, originally aired 2002 jan 10, is currently available for your streaming pleasure (unless you're not a windows media fan) from . woj p.s. to ectophiles, erin mckeown's appearance from last october is also currently available. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:16:23 -0500 (EST) From: "Donald G. Keller" Subject: mn<-->mmoh I had an insight about Marianne Nowottny's music recently, and I thought I'd share it here as a guide for the perplexed. Most pop music (and here I'm using "pop" in the widest sense as "not classical") puts the throughline of the song in the vocal part, by which I mean that if the song is sung a cappella, with no instrumental accompaniment whatsoever, it's still recognizable as "the same" song, and nearly as enjoyable as it would be with the instrumental portion. Some songwriters, in fact, reduce the non-vocal part to simple harmonic and rhythmic support that basically stays out of the way of the vocal; among "ecto" singers, Heather Nova and Jewel might be good examples, especially when they accompany themselves only on acoustic guitar. This general principle is true, I think, even of such relative eccentrics as, say, Joni Mitchell or Kristeen Young: the instrumental portion may rise to as much as 50% necessary to understand the progress of the song, but the (imaginary) vocal-only version would still be recognizable and followable (even "Incubator"!) As a result, I suspect that the average musical listener hears a song from the vocal down, and may not even pay much attention to the instrumental portion at all. (Myself, I listen from the guitar--or keyboard--part up.) Most songs respond to this listening strategy very well. But it's a strategy that doesn't work at all on Marianne Nowottny's music. The throughline of her songs is in the keyboard part (and here I'll note again that I've been lucky enough to hear her perform live, where the keyboard part is easier to follow than it is on her densely-arranged recordings); her vocal sometimes follows the melody on the top line of the accompaniment, but more often swoops and dives around it, and sometimes is actively in opposition A particularly clear example (featuring only voice and keyboard) is "Panopticon," the second track on her most recent album =Manmade Girl=. The tinkly chords suggest a fairly clear melody to the practiced ear, but the actual vocal starts some odd interval away, and though it traces a =similar= rhythmic rise and fall, it's unsettlingly different--and one would never be able to extrapolate the instrumental from the vocal, the way one could with a more usual song. (And the second verse is even further away from the throughline!) While thinking about this issue, I had a sudden hunch: I dragged out my copy of Mary Margaret O'Hara's =Miss America=, which I hadn't listened to in a good while. And there it was, a very similar relationship between vocal line and accompaniment. The instrumental portion of =Miss America= is straightforward and unproblematical (it reminds me a bit of Bob Dylan's music, for some reason), to the point where I found myself wondering, were the vocal part more "normal"-- even if it were very good--if I would like the album much. But MMOH's vocals are, of course, seldom to be found where you would expect the vocal line to be; even on "Dear Darling," an almost "classical" country ballad, where a clear vocal melody is audible, her voice keeps warbling away from the throughline. More often she's all over the place, which makes the album a thrilling listening experience. The most extreme example is the album closer "You Will Be Loved Again." Listening back-to-back with the Cowboy Junkies cover (which closes their second album =The Caution Horses=), one might be inclined to scratch one's head and wonder where in the world Margot Timmins found the melody she sings--or to speculate that Margot and Michael Timmins "wrote" a more conventional song (more followable in the vocal line, especially) inspired by the original. Speaking of back-to-back, a similar comparison between MMOH's "You Will Be Loved Again" and Marianne Nowottny's "The Deep End" (from her first album =Afraid of Me=) rather startlingly underlines the aptness of my linking the two singers: both songs feature free-jazzlike solo bass and even freer solo vocal, and both are extremely hard to follow. "The Deep End" is the Nowottny song I've found the most opaque, and even several different live versions (two of them with Elliott Sharp playing bass clarinet!) haven't helped; in fact the disparity of the various versions has only clouded the matter. (Unfortunately, there's no Cowboy Junkies cover...) More generally: where =Miss America= has accessible music anchoring the flighty vocals, Marianne Nowottny's music ups the ante, because her instrumental parts hardly stay "still" and progress in expected ways. Her keyboard playing somewhat resembles Veda Hille's in the way that quirky little keyboard figures repeat themselves long enough to be recognizable, only to be replaced by another equally quirky figure. And it doesn't help that her rhythmic sense is also idiosyncratic, speeding up and slowing down and quick-cutting to something else entirely. Nor, as I said, do the very interesting "orchestrations" on her recordings make them easier to parse. So a glib description of Marianne Nowottny might take the form Mary Margaret O'Hara Sings Veda Hille!--though it's a strategic rather than a stylistic description. But if one approaches her music with this image in mind, I venture to speculate that it might help get past the music's surface difficulties. Does this mean I'm implying that Marianne Nowottny is as good as Mary Margaret O'Hara or Veda Hille? Maybe not; after all, she's still only 19, and however impressively accomplished her output so far, it still has the air of early work. But I have no qualms in saying she has the =potential= to be that good. (She's already more prolific than Mary Margaret O'Hara!) I guess this is the second in a still-ongoing series, since I still haven't grappled with an actual review of =Manmade Girl=. We'll see what the future holds. Footnote: I wanted to make sure that Mary Margaret O'Hara fans knew about one of her more obscure tracks. It's from =September Songs: The Music of Kurt Weill= (Sony 1997). This is the soundtrack for a film I saw on PBS once, and features covers by such notables as Nick Cave, P.J. Harvey and Lou Reed. MMOH performs "Furchte Dich Nicht" from Brecht/Weill's =Happy End=, their "sequel" to =Threepenny Opera=; it's one of several Salvation Army hymns from the show, and is short (35 seconds in the recording I have) and sweetly tonal. To no one's surprise, I expect, MMOH turns it into a 4+-minute jazzy meander, somewhat similar to "You Will Be Loved Again" (quite as if, in fact, her original had been a cover of the Cowboy Junkies version). Any MMOH fan would find it interesting, I suspect, and the rest of the album is worth hearing as well. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:30:19 -0600 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: undressed pop stars On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 09:38:52AM -0800, Michael Pearce wrote: > I like undressed pop stars, as long as there is more to them than > simply that. It all started with Kate Bush in the "Breathing" video, > or even Janis Joplin in her loose tops. But if all there is to offer > is body with no talent, I'd rather go watch a stripper. Britney, > Mariah, Christina, all the other one-name dancing 'droids, you > listening? I gotta say that I like at least one song by each of these. Britney's probably the most indefensible, having minimal audible musical talent, but I enjoy her as a performer, and she's done some strong songs: "Oops, I Did It Again" is a dead ringer musically for some of the best of Abba, and "Baby One More Time" actually has quite a good melody (I've heard good covers of it by Fountains of Wayne and Weezer). Mariah and Christina have quite good voices, and Mariah has at least one classic song, her early "Vision of Love". - -- | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems | | http://www.metatronpress.com/nj/smwb.html | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:52:33 -0500 (CDT) From: gSs Subject: Re: Nikka Costa? On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Neile Graham wrote: > I just realized she's the one strutting around on the video with the > utterly forgettable music and the blue scarf barely glued to her > breasts to make sure a bit of them was covered but the teenage boys > would never be quite certain that they wouldn't see more. Why is it that a male performer can can wear nothing more than a faded pair of denim jeans and reviews will mention little beyond the fact that the he lost his gut and now looks hard and fast, but if a female performer wears nothing but a faded pair of denim jeans she gets compared to a dancer from a strip joint, regardless of her performance? gSs ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 17:10:51 -0500 (EST) From: Sue Trowbridge Subject: Re: Nikka Costa? On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, gSs wrote: > On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Neile Graham wrote: > > I just realized she's the one strutting around on the video with the > > utterly forgettable music and the blue scarf barely glued to her > > breasts to make sure a bit of them was covered but the teenage boys > > would never be quite certain that they wouldn't see more. > > Why is it that a male performer can can wear nothing more than a faded > pair of denim jeans and reviews will mention little beyond the fact that > the he lost his gut and now looks hard and fast, but if a female performer > wears nothing but a faded pair of denim jeans she gets compared to a > dancer from a strip joint, regardless of her performance? Well, I think that's for the same reason why men are allowed to go topless on beaches, and women aren't :) I had never heard Nikka Costa, but she seemed to be generating a lot of discussion here, so I visited her web site. I agree that the cartoon intro was pretty daft, but I selected the video for "Like a Feather" (the one Neile refers to above), figuring I would play it in the background as I did other stuff -- most videos bore me, I'd rather just hear the music. However, I was completely riveted for the whole 3 1/2 minutes. Nikka is obviously a dynamic performer, but it's the way the video is edited in time with the music that makes it so much fun to watch. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Dunno if I'd buy the CD, but I will certainly watch the video again! If you're on a high speed connection (probably required to get the full effect), check it out. - --Sue ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 22:09:30 -0700 From: Neal Copperman Subject: Re:Grant Hart At 12:43 AM -0800 3/5/02, Greg Bossert wrote: >On Tuesday, March 5, 2002, at 12:00 AM, Neal Copperman wrote: >>np: that boston songwriter thing still (though not constantly, as I >>did wander out to see a strange, low key concert by Grant Hart, who >>remarcably played a 70 minute set in which I knew all but two >>songs. I didn't realize I had so many Husker Du, Nova Mob, Grant >>Hart albums. A lot of those songs I hadn't heard for at least a >>decade. > >huh. d'ya know if he is touring? probably so, probably already >came through the bay area. i gotta start getting a paper or >something. :-P I have no idea. He didn't really talk about it, though he gave the indication that he toured all the time, but usually on the east coast. I did pick up what they were calling his "new" album: Good News For Modern Man. It's copyright 1999, on Pachyderm Records. Haven't listened yet. neal np: Coming Through - The Winstons ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 22:10:57 -0700 From: Neal Copperman Subject: Re: Nikka Costa... smells like Tap Spirit At 10:23 AM -0800 3/5/02, Phil Hudson wrote: >The cartoon intro looks like it was designed by or for a couple of oversexed >adolescent males in a bedroom somewhere in Novia Scotia. >Jane Fonda did that space-kitten stuff once, back in her youth, and it ( >Barbarella) has been a constant source of embarrassment to her since then >(in addition to its possibly being one of the worst movies ever made!). But I like Barbarella! (I also enjoy it being a constant source of embarrassment for Jane Fonda.) neal ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V8 #65 *************************