From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V7 #333 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Wednesday, November 21 2001 Volume 07 : Number 333 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: New Kate cover / Faith and the Muse [Craig Gidney ] Re: More Ectoguide comments ["Jeffrey C. Burka" ] Re: More Ectoguide comments [Leon van Stuivenberg ] Re: Ecto Guide ["Matthew B. Downer" ] Re: Ecto Guide [the damon of all evil ] Re: Ecto Guide ["Matthew B. Downer" ] Re: More Ectoguide comments [Joseph Zitt ] Suzanne Vega interview [] Jane Siberry: Latest news 11/20 [Philip David Morgan ] EctoGuide permissions [Neile Graham ] EctoGuide: raw files idea [Neile Graham ] Re: More Ectoguide comments (wikki web and database) [Neile Graham ] Live At The House O'Muzak: Rebecca Hart [meredith ] Re: EctoGuide permissions [Neile Graham ] Two musical matters ["Mitchell A. Pravatiner" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 03:08:26 -0800 (PST) From: Craig Gidney Subject: Re: New Kate cover / Faith and the Muse 4 years ago at the Projekt fest, Faith and the Muse did a stunning acapella version of "Sat In Your Lap." - --Craig - --- glenn mcdonald wrote: > I apologize if I overlooked a previous > discussion of this, but I've just > been listening to the new 2CD Faith and the > Muse set, _Vera Causa_, a > miscellany of covers (5), compilation tracks > (4), acoustic versions (2), > demos (3), a short concert from early last year > and several remixes. A > new F&tM record shouldn't require much > elaboration for anybody who > doesn't mind a little extra aggression in their > Ecto (and the band is > actually rather more goth in costume than > sound, it seems to me), but if > you need an extra incentive, the first cover is > a fairly invigorating > version of Kate's "Running Up That Hill". > There's also an unnervingly > accurate version of the Chameleons' "Soul in > Isolation", and if you can > imagine those two songs combined you've got a > pretty good idea of what > Faith and the Muse generally sound like on > their own material... > > glenn ===== "I hope that Cream of Tartar isn't what I think it is..."--Rita Rudner Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 11:59:00 EST From: Dracovixen@aol.com Subject: Re: ecto-digest V7 #332 Hey, That is a lot of work, and I and I'm sure many others, totally appreciate it. I didn't realize that that much went into it. What if one way to cut down on work was to let every new subscriber, and current subscribers, know that being part of the list may mean your reviews/comments will be posted in the Guide? Unless of course people actually fight against this, I would think it would be more effective use of time, because it would cut out the entire having to contact the author and all. Everyone would have to agree to have a broad rule like that, I know. Then, if someone saw that their review was posted and for some reason disliked that, they could just contact you and ask you to take it down... Just an idea. What does everyone think? To give our hard-working editors a small break? Black Dove < Subject: More Ectoguide comments Here is another thought... Since we are already saving up comments in raw form while they wait to be edited, can we put them into the guide in raw form? We used to have all the entries listed, and then a list of upcoming entries. The upcoming entries were removed cause they were probably so far out into the future. However, we could have a list of completed pages (what we have now) and a separate list of raw pages. That way, if someone was curious about a page and it hadn't been made "presentable", they could still easily find the information. I don't want to poo-poo Black Dove's suggestion, particularly since I'm already on the blanket "take my comments" list. However, I'm not sure it's fair to make everyone contribute by default. Being part of the list doesn't mean you HAVE to be part of the guide. Though maybe we could include info about the guide in the notice that gets sent to a new subscriber, and give everyone the choice of opting out? Or signing up? neal np: Mariana Trench - Deanna Kirk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:24:36 -0500 From: "Jeffrey C. Burka" Subject: Re: More Ectoguide comments neal sez: I like the idea of raw lists of comments. Not as useful or purty as a real Guide page, but still very helpful compared to nothing. It would also help with the "why isn't [x] in the Guide?" questions. > Though maybe we could include info about the guide in the notice that gets > sent to a new subscriber, and give everyone the choice of opting out? Or > signing up? Overall, I think this is a good idea, but it really ought to be an opt-in, not out. Just include in the e-mail a statement to the effect of "if you're willing to allow your comments to be used, just reply to this e-mail with a 'yes' in the subject line." jeff n.p. _The Smiths_ n.r. _Black House_, Stephen King ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 18:54:03 +0100 From: Leon van Stuivenberg Subject: Re: More Ectoguide comments > I like the idea of raw lists of comments. Not as useful or purty as a > real Guide page, but still very helpful compared to nothing. It would > also help with the "why isn't [x] in the Guide?" questions. Maybe setup a wikki web for building draft ectoguide pages, and let a few authorized people transfer mature ones to the real guide. ? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:04:11 -0600 (CST) From: "Matthew B. Downer" Subject: Re: Ecto Guide > ------------------------------ > From: Neile Graham > > The Ectophiles' Guide is way, way, way behind the ecto list and there's > just no way we can keep up. My editors and I do what we can, but we all > have a lot of other commitments. What back end is the Ectophiles' Guide running on? Database, scripting language, OS, webserver? matt - -- Matt Downer NP: Parallel Dreams, Loreena McKennitt hachiman@io.com NR: Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:17:37 -0800 From: the damon of all evil Subject: Re: Ecto Guide On 20 Nov, Matthew B. Downer wrote: > What back end is the Ectophiles' Guide running on? Database, scripting > language, OS, webserver? it's a perl/cgi program that's getting a little crufty but still does the job well. no database, just a bunch of text files. at some point i intend rewriting in php with a mysql or postgres backend, but so far i haven't had a lot of time and neile likes it the way it is, so there's not a lot of impetus. it's running on smoe.org, which i believe is solaris/apache, and the mirror is on my machine, linux/apache. why do you ask, out of curiosity? - -damon Damon Harper _/\_ "I have made this letter longer damon@usrbin.ca __\ /__ than usual because I lack the \ / time to make it shorter." http://www.usrbin.ca/damon/ |/||\| - Blaise Pascal ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 13:55:58 -0600 (CST) From: "Matthew B. Downer" Subject: Re: Ecto Guide I'm receiving EctoList on digest mode, so anyone who addresses these issues, please feel free to CC me in addition to replying the list. > it's a perl/cgi program that's getting a little crufty but still does the > job well. no database, just a bunch of text files. at some point i intend > rewriting in php with a mysql or postgres backend, but so far i haven't had > a lot of time and neile likes it the way it is, so there's not a lot of > impetus. > > why do you ask, out of curiosity? I've been playing around with PHP and MySQL a bit. I see some possibilities for making it easier to enter new artist entries and update existing entries in the EctoGuide. I've got a basic schema worked out for an EctoGuide database; writing a php page based on the current html format shouldn't be difficult. Writing form-based tools for entering information into the database would be less trivial, but more interesting -- but more importantly, should make life easier for the EctoGuide editors. matt - -- Matt Downer NP: The Mask and Mirror, Loreena McKennitt hachiman@io.com NR: Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:02:46 -0600 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: More Ectoguide comments On Tue, Nov 20, 2001 at 06:54:03PM +0100, Leon van Stuivenberg wrote: > Maybe setup a wikki web for building draft ectoguide pages, and let a > few authorized people transfer mature ones to the real guide. ? This strikes me as a really good idea, if someone wants to set the infrastructure up. - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 18:01:21 -0500 From: Subject: Suzanne Vega interview There's an interview with Suzanne Vega available on this week's Onion AV Club: http://www.theonionavclub.com/avclub3742/avfeature_3742.html Enjoy! :) /nm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:10:33 -0500 From: Philip David Morgan Subject: Jane Siberry: Latest news 11/20 Good Evening, kind folk: The latest news from Jane Siberry et compagnie.... Philip David 11/20/2001 - ---------- From: S H E E B A Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:13:36 -0500 To: sib@sheeba.ca Subject: MUSELETTER November 20 MUSELETTER November 20, 2000 A NOTE FROM THE STAFF AT SHEEBA: Jane wanted to write something special for this MUSELETTER, but with the hectic schedule she has been keeping it wasn't possible. (When you hoe as many rows as Jane does, it takes time and care to finish them all). She sends her warmth and best wishes, and urges you to take care of yourself and the world around you. SHEEBA NEWS JANE ON TOUR Many people have written that were able to attend the concerts in their areas. Thank you so much for the positive feedback. Jane is away on tour until December, and then is taking a much-needed break so she will not be able to answer all the mail that has come in. She does want you to know that your response is important to her and she appreciates it. Still to come on the tour are the following cities: Philadelphia PA, Pocantico Hills NY, Pawling NY, New York NY, Vancouver BC, Portland OR, Seattle WA, Los Angeles CA, San Francisco CA, San Juan CA, and Toronto ON. Please check out our tour page at http://www.sheeba.ca/tour.php for more date and venue information. MEANWHILE BACK AT THE OFFICE After an overwhelming response to the release of "City" we are finally caught up with orders. Thanks so much to everyone for being so patient while we ploughed through the stacks. If you haven't received your order, you should any day now. NEW ON THE WEBSITE Visit the Holiday Shopping area in our store for holiday gift packages, as well as our new "Calling All Angels" shirt and "Jane Siberry 2002" calendar. Other items new this fall include "Calling All Angels" sheet music, "City" hats and shirts, "City Companion" tour book, and of course the "City" CD. Also - visit the "City Highlights" page (requires Flash) for sounds and images from the CD. "speak a little softer, work a little harder, shoot less with more care, sing a little sweeter, and love a little longer, and soon you will be there" http://www.janesiberry.com 416.921.1364 416.921.0024 fax Suite 291 - 238 Davenport Road, Toronto, Ontario, Canada M5R 1J6 Peace On Earth. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 16:34:19 -0800 (PST) From: "J. Johnson" Subject: Jane Siberry Article Sorry if this is a repeat. I was blessed/lucky enough to interview Jane Siberry in the middle of her hectic tour schedule. Please check it out and feel free to lemme know what you think. As I don't check this digest very much, you can send personal pings to: soulofmp3@yahoo.com. article url (3 pgs) http://www.mp3.com/stations/jane1 peace jianda Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:21:53 -0800 From: Neile Graham Subject: EctoGuide permissions Dracovixen@aol.com wrote: > That is a lot of work, and I and I'm sure many others, totally > appreciate it. I didn't realize that that much went into it. Thanks! We all love The Guide, too, so we don't really mind doing it. > What if one way to cut down on work was to let every new subscriber, > and current subscribers, know that being part of the list may mean > your reviews/comments will be posted in the Guide? Unless of course > people actually fight against this, I would think it would be more > effective use of time, because it would cut out the entire having > to contact the author and all. Everyone would have to agree to have > a broad rule like that, I know. One big thing is that we don't want there to be anything that might act as a hindrance or block to people who want to say things but don't necessarily want to see their words repeated on The Guide. We do have a large list of people who are willing to either let us take their comments at will or simply let them know what we'll be using their comments and giving them a chance at a quick veto. It mostly works, and it helps for people to have time to get to know what's going on with the list and its relationship to The Guide so they can make a reasonable response to the question about whether they want their comments used. So I hope that if I periodically ask people individually and here on the list we can take care of most of it. I do like Jeff's idea of an "opt in" system, except I think when people sign onto the list for most of them it will be too soon to know if they really want to. Maybe the options could be: yes, I don't mind at all; yes, but send me a message to let give me a veto option; no, never; ask me again in a month when I understand what you're talking about. - --Neile - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Neile Graham ...... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ....... neile@sff.net Les Semaines: A Weekly Journal . http://www.sff.net/people/neile/semaines The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music ............ http://www.ectoguide.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:22:09 -0800 From: Neile Graham Subject: EctoGuide: raw files idea Neal writes: >Since we are already saving up comments in raw form while they wait to be >edited, can we put them into the guide in raw form? Not in the form they're currently in, since the raw files have all kinds of craziness in them and thus would need some tidying up and some minor formating for them to work in html. But this is still an idea I want to think about more. How useful would jumbled up comments be? You might not be able to tell what album the comments are about but you still could get the gist of it. We would definitely want a way to distinguish between raw files and regular files. >We used to have all the >entries listed, and then a list of upcoming entries. The upcoming entries >> were >removed cause they were probably so far out into the future. Actually, they're still there. I've just removed all the ones that aren't referred to in an existing entry. > However, we >could have a list of completed pages (what we have now) and a separate > list of >raw pages. That way, if someone was curious about a page and it hadn't been >made "presentable", they could still easily find the information. I do think this is an idea. And certainly one that is worth thinking about. - --Neile - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Neile Graham ...... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ....... neile@sff.net Les Semaines: A Weekly Journal . http://www.sff.net/people/neile/semaines The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music ............ http://www.ectoguide.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:56:52 -0800 From: Neile Graham Subject: Re: More Ectoguide comments (wikki web and database) At 6:54 PM +0100 11/20/01, Leon van Stuivenberg wrote: >> I like the idea of raw lists of comments. Not as useful or purty as a >> real Guide page, but still very helpful compared to nothing. It would >> also help with the "why isn't [x] in the Guide?" questions. > >Maybe setup a wikki web for building draft ectoguide pages, and let a >few authorized people transfer mature ones to the real guide. ? We do already have an html template that I send out on request. I think this pretty much works the same way. The big thing is that we don't want non-ectophiles thinking it's a free-for-all. Part of the value of The Ectophiles' Guide is that it comes from a group of commentators that have somehwat of a common ground and group of musical interests. I can't tell you how many people email to say they can't believe we don't include Black Flag or whomever and they're a huge fan and they'd be willing to give us some comments.... My hesitations about turning the EctoGuide into a database are both picky dumb ones, but I hope they're not just me being a luddite: 1) I find building html pages inherently more interesting than putting things in database format even if there isn't that much to choose between them; 2) I like being able to check the pages easily on my home machine before I upload them--having them in a database format makes that more difficult to do, as I am still using a dialup connection and really hate having to correct things while I'm logged on (would there be a way to get my Mac to function in the same way the server does for at-home check ups?); 3) I find databases less forgiving of stupid errors than html and I hate staring at files for a half hour to find that missing comma. - --Neile - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Neile Graham ...... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ....... neile@sff.net Les Semaines: A Weekly Journal . http://www.sff.net/people/neile/semaines The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music ............ http://www.ectoguide.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:40:48 -0700 From: Neal Copperman Subject: Re: EctoGuide permissions At 5:21 PM -0800 11/20/01, Neile Graham wrote: >I do like Jeff's idea of an "opt in" system, except I think when people >sign onto the list for most of them it will be too soon to know if they >really want to. maybe it would make sense to just post something a few times a year. Sort of a brief Ectoguide FAQ that would explain what the guide is and how it is assembled. After all, that question gets asked a couple of times a year anyway. it could include the info on how people can volunteer to be editors and how they can make their comments available to the guide. At 5:22 PM -0800 11/20/01, Neile Graham wrote: >Neal writes: > >>Since we are already saving up comments in raw form while they wait to be >>edited, can we put them into the guide in raw form? > >Not in the form they're currently in, since the raw files have all kinds of >craziness in them and thus would need some tidying up and some minor >formating for them to work in html. But this is still an idea I want to >think about more. Yeah, I was naively thinking it might just consist of wrapping
around the data you send out. I just tried that. It didn't work, but it wasn't too far off working either. It looked like all we really needed was some

's to separate the messages. (Granted, that was a sample size of one, so it might not be a good test.) >How useful would jumbled up comments be? You might not be able to tell >what album the comments are about but you still could get the gist of it. Well, that's how we get the comments to build the pages. I know I do a fair amount of research to fill in discographies and edit the comments into a more readable form, but the raw data does have the basic info there. >We would definitely want a way to distinguish between raw files and regular >files. Definitely. I figured they could be listed separately, like the pages that aren't done. Maybe with an initial banner page warning them of the hideously ugly data they are about to encounter :) >I do think this is an idea. And certainly one that is worth thinking about. it seems to me that this is a good idea to pursue ONLY if it is really easy. If it takes a lot of time to get raw pages ready, we may as well spend the time making purty pages. But if someone can toss together a script that we can leave running overnight against all your files, that might be worth considering. neal np: Every Single Day - Lucy Kaplansky nr: A Home at the End of the World - Michael Cunningham About to be viewing: Cure (Japanese film) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 00:12:32 -0500 From: meredith Subject: Live At The House O'Muzak: Rebecca Hart Hi, woj and I are doing it again ... we're bringing the concert to us. Saves on gas mileage that way. :) This is relatively short notice, but hopefully it's not too late for people to make plans. I think this is going to be a good one. SUNDAY, DECEMBER 2 at 4 PM REBECCA HART Rebecca Hart is a Brown grad who fronts a folk-rock-jazz improvisational/experimental trio called The Rebecca Hart Project. I hear a lot of things in her music: a little Arson Garden, a little prog, some evidence of her Wiccan beliefs, and shades of her self-described folk and Celtic roots. I'm intrigued to hear what comes through in solo performance. There are samples of her music at http://www.rebeccahartproject.com, including a link to her page at MP3.com. I think she'll be a hit with ectophiles -- please give a thought to joining us and checking out some great new music. As usual reservations are required, either via response to this email or by calling us at (203) 776-9325. The suggested donation with be the usual $10, and as always munchies will be provided. Maybe we'll even have some eggnog. :) There is full information at http://www.smoe.org/meth/muzak.html. Hope to see a lot of you here!! ======================================= Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth "an eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind" -- mahatma gandhi ======================================= Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://www.smoe.org/meth/muzak.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 21:50:09 -0800 From: Neile Graham Subject: Re: EctoGuide permissions >maybe it would make sense to just post something a few times a year. >Sort of a brief Ectoguide FAQ that would explain what the guide is >and how it is assembled. After all, that question gets asked a >couple of times a year anyway. > >it could include the info on how people can volunteer to be editors >and how they can make their comments available to the guide. Yes, I really should do this. I have kept some of my old messages about the Guide to the list to prepare for this. >>Neal writes: >> >>>Since we are already saving up comments in raw form while they wait to be >>>edited, can we put them into the guide in raw form? >> >>Not in the form they're currently in, since the raw files have all kinds of >>craziness in them and thus would need some tidying up and some minor >>formating for them to work in html. But this is still an idea I want to >>think about more. > >Yeah, I was naively thinking it might just consist of wrapping >

around the data you send out. I just >tried that. It didn't work, but it wasn't too far off working >either. It looked like all we really needed was some

's to >separate the messages. (Granted, that was a sample size of one, so >it might not be a good test.) It's more that the raw files are _really_ raw--with comments about other unrelated artists, plenty of outdated email address. Some comments are the full text of email messages while others are just the comments with an email address attached--it's a real mishmash. >it seems to me that this is a good idea to pursue ONLY if it is >really easy. If it takes a lot of time to get raw pages ready, we >may as well spend the time making purty pages. But if someone can >toss together a script that we can leave running overnight against >all your files, that might be worth considering. It definitely would take more than an automatic script, but way, way less than the usual editing. - --Neile - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Neile Graham ...... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ....... neile@sff.net Les Semaines: A Weekly Journal . http://www.sff.net/people/neile/semaines The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music ............ http://www.ectoguide.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 00:31:43 -0600 (CST) From: "Mitchell A. Pravatiner" Subject: Two musical matters Recently, the networks began running a commercial for the Mitsubishi Montero, which features a song that sounds a lot like stuff that Todd Rundgren has done. Anyone know what that song is? Another song with roots in literature: "Home At Last," by Steely Dan, which was inspired by Homer's _The Odyssey_. Mitch ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V7 #333 **************************