From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V7 #266 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Tuesday, September 18 2001 Volume 07 : Number 266 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Second Benefit Concert to take place Tuesday, Sept 18. [Chris Snyder ] Re: Happy watched them collapse!! [Jeff Wasilko ] Re: Happy watched them collapse!! ["Xenu's Sister" ] Re: Happy watched them collapse!! [Mike Connell ] Re: Happy watched them collapse!! ["Michael P. Schneider" ] Re: Happy watched them collapse!! ["Kira" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 03:56:24 -0500 From: Chris Snyder Subject: Second Benefit Concert to take place Tuesday, Sept 18. Hey Folks Just got this from Passim in Cambridge, MA. Looks like support was and is really strong. If you're in another part of the country or world keep in mind that Passim usually broadcasts on Radioboston.com. And if you want to help call 1800 help-now or go to redcross.org. >From: Club Passim >Subject: Second Benefit Concert to take place Tuesday, Sept 18. > > > >Due to the tremendous outpouring of support for our Monday Evening Benefit >concert for the American Red Cross, Club Passim has added a second concert >on Tuesday, Sept 18. Please read on - the number of performers joining us >is heart-warming. Thank You. > >As we all sit here stunned by what is going on in our world right now - we >need to come together - as family, as friends and as community. > >Monday, September 17 and Tuesday September 18, Club Passim will hold >Benefit Shows to aid the American Red Cross relief efforts in New York >City and Washington DC. > >The tremendous outpouring of generosity and support from local artists >shows what an amazing community we have here in the Boston area - come and >be a part of it. > >The shows will be at Club Passim (47 Palmer St, Cambridge, MA) and will >start at 7PM. > >Tickets are a $25 suggested donation, but feel free to give more if you >can. As I said, proceeds will go directly to the Red Cross. > >SOLD OUT. Performers Monday evening include Ellis Paul, Chris Smither, >Kris Delmhorst, Vance Gilbert, Jim Infantino, Christopher Williams, Mark >Erelli, Karim Mohammed, Beth Amsel, Lori McKenna, Rob Laurens, Pamela >Means, Jimmy Lafave, Meghan Toohey and Peter Mulvey. SOLD OUT. > >Performers Tuesday evening include Christopher Williams, Mark Erelli, >Pamela Means, Faith Soloway, Linda Sharar, Mica Richards, Vance Gilbert, >Mary Lou Lord, Rose Polenzani, Sean Staples, Jabe Beyer, Tim Mason, Sam >Shaber and more! > >You can call to purchase tickets at 617-492-7679 q please specify if you'd >like to pay the $25 or if you'd like to contribute more per ticket. > >Watch http://www.clubpassim.org/passimcalendar for updates on performers. > >Please spread the word on these shows to whomever you can. They have come >together very last minute and we want everyone to know. > >Thank you all for your support on this. Our hearts go out to all of the >people affected by the horrible tragedies of last week. Let's come >together and do what we can to help out. > >Club Passim >47 Palmer St. >Cambridge, MA 02138 >http://www.clubpassim.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 02:01:44 -0700 From: "Angel's Shadow" Subject: Re: Being contrary (As OT as could possibly be) In response to: - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Xenu's Sister" To: Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 12:07 PM Subject: Being contrary (As OT as could possibly be) (because their > actions have turned God's anger against America) and also having to endure a week of religious yap (hey, God *answered* prayers...those of the terrorists! Didn't anyone hear what bin Laden said??), this is SUCH a breath of fresh air! America has turned away from God. It's our freedom and our free will choice. Even in the Bible, belief in God is a free will choice. God will never force anyone to believe. You believe or you don't. You have to turn away from God because He'll never turn away from you. That doesn't mean you won't suffer in life or suffer because of sins even after repenting even as a believer. Believing in God and Jesus is knowing that this world is only a temporary place before eternity. I totally believe religion has been the source of horrible atrocities on this earth as many things have. Religion is rules humankind make according to how they interpret the Bible (or whatever doctrine is applicable). As a Christian, I take the Bible to be the only truth, but I don't hate people for disagreeing or not believing. You pray for people. You don't condemn them. I can't say I'm not just as guilty for wanting the people who destroyed the WTC to be obliterated, however. That's the difference between myself and God. I'm far from perfect and far from sinless. I can pray all I want for vengeance and claim that my actions are those of God's, but it doesn't mean it is God's vengeance or His will. God continues to let us make our free will choices to help or hurt each other. Again that's free will choice, and the hell of this world is what we've created out of our free will choices. There are evil people who claim to be followers of God, Jesus, Allah, Buddah, atheism or whatever belief. Does it reflect on their dogma or their misuse of trying to say they represent it? >Statement on September 11 Terrorism Acts of Terrorism the Ultimate "Faith-Based Initiative"? September 13, 2001 This statement was released by the Freedom From Religion Foundation, a Madison, Wis.-based national association of freethinkers (atheists and agnostics) working to protect the constitutional separation of church and state since 1978. However, Bush's proclamation of Friday, September 14 as a "National Day of Prayer and Remembrance" shows the pitfalls of the "God is on our side" mentality, and the dangers of religious patriotism. > While it may be natural for religious persons to turn to religion or prayer for solace, it is not the role of the President of the United States, or his spokespersons, to urge citizens to pray, to go to church, to turn to faith, or to observe a National Day of Prayer with worship. Personally as a believer in free speech, shouldn't he have a right to express his views? Now forcing people to believe or pray with him would be horrible, and, to be honest, the fact that he has the integrity to not his hide beliefs is something I respect. Isn't that the problem with politics? People say what they think people want to hear and so you never truly know what you're getting. You definitely know in this case. I mean, hey, I don't need to know who's gay, who's had sex with who, who's dating or divorcing who but it's constantly in my face when I turn on the tv or read magazines or newspapers. Faith is a personal facet of who somebody is. Why is it so offensive? So you don't want it in your face. That's the problem with free speech. It's for everybody, and people try to throw whatever belief or idea they want in your face. Trying to mandate atheism on America is just as bad. My free speech should allow me the right to proclaim "I'm a Christian" as much as you can proclaim you're an atheist. Where is freedom of speech when people are told they can't say something or they have to leave it out of a certain place? Separation of church of state is a one way street to the disadvantage of the religious establishment. Separation of church and state is to guarantee freedom of religion even if it's a belief in atheism. > In fact, it appears that the terrorist disasters of September 11 may well have been the ultimate "faith-based initiative." These terrorists apparently expected to find a reward "in heaven" and were bent on starting a "holy war" with our nation. Our country should not fall into the trap of religious terrorists: Holy wars don't have solutions, they just have body counts. Religion is not the answer, it is probably the problem. As Pascal put it: "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." We know neither their true intentions or their hearts except that they commited an act of cowardice and hate. They can claim God supports them just as they could claim you or I support them, and it doesn't make it true. Look at companies that claim they care about your needs. They just want to sell a product and make a buck. Profit has never been the same as love, but they sure try to sell it that way. Men do evil because their hearts are evil whatever excuse they use to support it. If Islamic fundamentalists have chosen to declare a Jihad against America than there is nothing wrong to turning our own faith to find the conviction to defend what we believe is right. Many members of various religions including Christianity do not follow their teachings or their scriptures completely, many aren't familiar with them except what was taught to them by someone else with their own agendas. > Prayer had its chance on September 11, and it failed. Imagine the unanswered prayers of hundreds or thousands of the victims of these terrorists. Official prayer will not solve any problems. We believe it is appropriate for President Bush to call for a Day of Remembrance, but leave prayer up to individuals. Civil War Col. Robert G. Ingersoll (a self-proclaimed agnostic) reminds us: "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." It failed, says who? There were a few botched attempts, as well, and who knows how many more acts of terrorism may have been planned. How many more lives lost. And how did a passport of one of the terrorists from the wreckage of a burning plane in a skyscraper which subsequently collapsed survive unscathed to be located by the rescuers and logged into evidence? Also, I've never seen so many people work together or come together out of compassion in my lifetime especially of so many different beliefs. True love and compassion is a gift from God. No prayer is waisted. If a thousand prayers saved one life or mended one broken heart, it's worth it. Granted, if you don't believe in prayer, it is worthless for you. No mandate was handed down forcing people to pray. These people gathered together to pray by choice. The hate of these people that attacked America isn't from God. God isn't hate. And, yes, people died and were left behind without loved ones. Perhaps God knew the pain of those on the airplanes and in the WTC and took away the suffering they might have lived through, perhaps they had fulfilled what they needed to in life. I don't understand God's motives or will. I wish I could answer why people suffer except that the wages of sin is death. In a world filled with sin, many will die and many will suffer. > The nonreligious are among the victims and their families, and are represented in the ranks of the heroes, the firefighters and police officers risking or giving their lives to save others. It is offensive that the President of all Americans disregards the convictions, even the existence, of the more than 10% of the population that is not religious. The "God is on our side" mentality was responsible for these tragic acts of terrorism. We must not compound the dangers by a "One Nation Under God" response. I find it unsettling that people are offended by an individual's right to express his own faith and belief. He condemned no other person's beliefs. He expressed concern for everyone not just people who are "religious." Does he have to edit what he says so he doesn't offend anybody? That's impossible especially when people are looking for a reason to persecute the president for something. I understand he's the President of all Americans, but he is also a man entitled to his own beliefs. If you want to persecute him for expressing his beliefs, then the FFRF are guilty of what they're accusing him. The fundamentals of Democracy is that the majority rules whether good or bad. This freedom-loving nation that we are so proud of today was created because of people who believed in one nation under God. I watched months of liberal spoutings and liberal bias on television during the presidential election and continue to watch liberal influenced reporting on television and most news media. All sides certainly aren't represented there. You're not going to get perfection in an imperfect world. "The God is on our side" mentality was not responsible for these acts. Hate was. Kristen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 08:45:05 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: Being contrary (As OT as could possibly be) On Monday, September 17, 2001, at 04:01 AM, Angel's Shadow wrote: > America has turned away from God. If you want to make a fact based sociological statement about religious belief in the US, it would make some sense. But the above is just blather. - - Steve __________ A New York Times investigation into overseas ballots that helped George W. Bush win the presidency found that Florida election officials, facing intense GOP pressure to accept military votes, counted hundreds of overseas absentee ballots that failed to comply with state election laws. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 12:13:47 -0700 From: "Shelly DeForte" Subject: RE: Death Downtown, religion, etc. I haven't been reading much of the discussion about the WTC as I am feeling very tired through this whole process. I did have to remove myself from another mailing list of closer friends as the discussion became too close and personal. One thing I've noticed is that when someone is angry, they don't listen and they very quickly try to assign which side you are on. I've felt during this process that my friends have heard a quarter of what I said and then placed me on one or the other side of an argument - as if there were only two sides. >I also know, from experience, > that anyone who is set in their beliefs will not and cannot be shaken by > simple persuasion. While I did find the arguments, especially on > religion, > fascinating, I have to ask; Do you really think you're going to > change each > other's minds? No matter how much you argue about it, no one can change > another person's mind for them, especially if their beliefs are > as strong as > some of those expressed. > I also wanted to ask, as politely as possible, I know we are all > shaken and upset by current events, but could we return the list to it's > rightful purpose? There is still almost 24/7 coverage of the tragedy > everywhere one turns and this should, in my humble opinion, be a > haven from > that. I hope that we are getting to the point were the political discussions can move to private correspondance. I do have a delete key, so there is no harm to me either way. > Somewhere we can go without having to worry about politics > and death. > Perhaps my views are naive, I am only 15, but I would think that > instead of Has anyone noticed that the 'apathetic' youth of America are the ones calling for peace?? Pay attention and open your eyes. I'm 24, and joined this list when I was 16 (though I took a 7 year hiatus :). The people of ecto have always been respectful and listened to my opinions regardless of my age. Love and hope to all, Shelly ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 14:19:09 -0700 (PDT) From: "Xenu's Sister" Subject: Happy watched them collapse!! She tells her story at www.auntiesocialmusic.com. V __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 18:17:54 -0400 From: Jeff Wasilko Subject: Re: Happy watched them collapse!! On Mon, Sep 17, 2001 at 02:19:09PM -0700, Xenu's Sister wrote: > She tells her story at www.auntiesocialmusic.com. got a more specific url than that? I can't find what you're talking about... - -j ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 15:25:46 -0700 (PDT) From: "Xenu's Sister" Subject: Re: Happy watched them collapse!! - --- Jeff Wasilko wrote: > On Mon, Sep 17, 2001 at 02:19:09PM -0700, Xenu's > Sister wrote: > > > She tells her story at www.auntiesocialmusic.com. > > got a more specific url than that? I can't find what > you're > talking about... > > -j It's in the "Many Worlds" area. http://www.auntiesocialmusic.com/manyworlds/index.htm V __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 15:50:17 -0700 (PDT) From: kitty kat Subject: Re: Happy watched them collapse!! I'm a little confused - at the end of the story, there's an "Email Me" link that goes to sara@auntiesocialmusic.com. Is Happy getting email at the sara@ address? Or was this story something that Sara wrote? Or was there a disconnect between the story (written by Happy) and the email address (going to Sara)? On Mon, 17 Sep 2001, Xenu's Sister wrote: > --- Jeff Wasilko wrote: > > On Mon, Sep 17, 2001 at 02:19:09PM -0700, Xenu's > > Sister wrote: > > > > > She tells her story at www.auntiesocialmusic.com. > > > > got a more specific url than that? I can't find what > > you're > > talking about... > > > > -j > > It's in the "Many Worlds" area. > > http://www.auntiesocialmusic.com/manyworlds/index.htm > > V > > > __________________________________________________ > Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? > Donate cash, emergency relief information > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 19:07:24 -0400 From: Mike Connell Subject: Re: Happy watched them collapse!! At 06:17 PM 9/17/01, Jeff Wasilko wrote: >On Mon, Sep 17, 2001 at 02:19:09PM -0700, Xenu's Sister wrote: > > > She tells her story at www.auntiesocialmusic.com. > >got a more specific url than that? I can't find what you're >talking about... http://www.auntiesocialmusic.com/manyworlds/index.htm Mike ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 16:58:25 -0700 From: "Michael P. Schneider" Subject: Re: Happy watched them collapse!! >I'm a little confused - at the end of the story, there's an "Email Me" >link that goes to sara@auntiesocialmusic.com. Is Happy getting email at >the sara@ address? Or was this story something that Sara wrote? Or was >there a disconnect between the story (written by Happy) and the email >address (going to Sara)? Just so you are not confused: (grin) The story was written by Happy. All contact to Happy through asm.com goes through the sara@... address. If you send something that is to Happy at that address she will actually get it. Michael P. Schneider - ----------------------------------------------------------- Michael P. Schneider Software Engineering michael@cybermagician.com Web Design http://www.cybermagician.com Training Web Tools ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 20:58:07 -0400 From: Michael Curry Subject: Fwd: FC: Plea for help in building archive of post-attack websites >Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 15:42:17 -0400 >To: politech@politechbot.com >From: Declan McCullagh >Subject: FC: Plea for help in building archive of post-attack websites >X-URL: Politech is at http://www.politechbot.com/ >X-Author: Declan McCullagh is at http://www.mccullagh.org/ >X-News-Site: Cluebot is at http://www.cluebot.com/ > >********* > >Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 15:34:19 -0400 >From: "Christopher D. Hunter" >Organization: University of Pennsylvania >To: Philip Agre , Ari Schwartz , > Will Doherty , David Sobel , > Declan McCullagh , Nick Jesdanun , > chagit mes tsfaty >Subject: Please help us build a Web Archive of the Sept 11 Attack > >Please help us build a Web Archive of the Sept 11 Attack > >webArchivist.org is working with The Internet Archive in collaboration >with the Library of Congress to identify and archive pages and sites >related to the terrorist attacks in New York and Washington on September >11, 2001. We want to be sure that there is a solid historical record of >this time. > >We are asking for volunteers to help us identify any web sites or pages >that have information or content about the Sep11 Attack. We are >especially interested in finding sites by individuals -- that record >their feelings, experiences or opinions. We are also especially >interested in finding non-American sites . . . > >http://webarchivist.org/ > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list >You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. >Declan McCullagh's photographs are at http://www.mccullagh.org/ >To subscribe to Politech: http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html >This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 18:37:42 -0700 (PDT) From: "Xenu's Sister" Subject: Why didn't I think of this? I Won't Break Down You'll never win, I won't break down Because I have the strength of a million souls Though you will try, I won't despair Because I've lived the life of a million lives Always known just where I was going To have peace with me And to have peace with you And I can see that day, yes I can see that day Do you know just where you're going Do you have the strength to pursue your dreams Through the years my eyes have cried But I don't run away from the things I fear There's no question that I am here To have peace with me And to have peace with you And I can see that day, yes I can see that day You'll never win, I won't break down Because I have the strength of a million souls Though you will try, I won't despair Because I've lived the life of a million lives Always known just where I was going ) 1987 - Happy Rhodes __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 19:56:04 -0700 From: "Kira" Subject: Re: Happy watched them collapse!! >got a more specific url than that? I can't find what you're >talking about... > >-j go to "Many Worlds"... Kira __________________________________________________ D O T E A S Y - "Join the web hosting revolution!" http://www.doteasy.com ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V7 #266 **************************