From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V7 #261 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Friday, September 14 2001 Volume 07 : Number 261 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Today's your birthday, friend... [Mike Matthews ] Songs for the tragedy, etc. [adamk@zoom.co.uk] Re: Tunes for the times [Ted ] skyline [MarkSuss@aol.com] Re: Songs for this week's tragedy. ["heidi maier" ] Re: Phil, Response to Terror ["TB" ] Re: Songs for this week's tragedy. ["Jeffrey C. Burka" ] Re: FW: Phil, Response to Terror [damon of the tentacle ] Re: FW: Phil, Response to Terror [damon of the tentacle ] Re: Phil, Response to Terror [jack handy ] RE: Phil, Response to Terror [Phil Hudson ] Being contrary (As OT as could possibly be) ["Xenu's Sister" ] puppylove ["Jeffrey C. Burka" ] Re: Being contrary (As OT as could possibly be) [Castergine ] Re: Being contrary (As OT as could possibly be) [FAMarcus@aol.com] ASPCA-puppylove- OT [Heidi Heller ] Re: Being contrary (As OT as could possibly be) [Castergine Subject: Today's your birthday, friend... i*i*i*i*i*i i*i*i*i*i*i *************** *****HAPPY********* **************BIRTHDAY********* *************************************************** *************************************************************************** ***************** Karron Lynn Lane (Wink@mail.sstar.com) ****************** *************************************************************************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Karron Lynn Lane Tue September 14 1751 Ophelia Virgo Troy Wollenslegel Mon September 18 1972 Virgo Mark Frabotta Sun September 19 1965 Don't even THINK about parking here Joe Zitt Sat September 20 1958 Will Hack for CDs Ani DiFranco Wed September 23 1970 Virgo Lord Tyr Mon September 24 1979 Libran Paul Kim Sat October 01 1977 fetal position JoAnn Whetsell Fri October 01 1976 Pendulum William Gill Wed October 05 1960 A wide-eyed wanderer Dan Riley Sun October 08 1961 Libra Neile Graham Wed October 08 1958 pen Quenby M. Chunco Tue October 08 1968 Crunchy Frog Mike Garland Wed October 08 1952 Creature_of_the_Night Irvin Lin Tue October 09 1973 Libra Michael C. Berch Wed October 10 1956 No parking Chris Gagnon Sat October 10 1970 Libra Wolfgang Drotschmann Thu October 13 1966 Waage Gracescape Fri October 13 1967 unbalanced Brian Bloom Tue October 14 1969 spam - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 08:51:09 +0100 (BST) From: adamk@zoom.co.uk Subject: Songs for the tragedy, etc. I was walking to work the next day, listening to a mix I'd made, and the Flaming Lips' "Waiting for Superman" came on. It just seemed perfect. Hollywood has a lot to answer for, as Vikram Singh touched on in his lovely posting (thanks to Julie for forwarding this) -- this is so beyond belief, we have always thought that a superhero will fly from the skies and save the city, or Sly Stallone will be on the plane and kick terrorist ass. And it doesn't happen. We feel betrayed and we feel mortal. Going somewhat off-topic (a) Phil, I know how you feel, but much as I dislike Bush -- and I do --- going to ground was about the only thing he could do. We know that they were gunning for him, as well, and his death would have been an even greater moral victory for them (whoever they are). Even if he wanted to go charging in, his advisors (who, after all, seem to hold sway in the White House) wouldn't have let him. (b) What the hell was the CIA up to all this time? Were they too busy overthrowing democracies in third world countries to notice? (c) That Canadian broadcaster single -- I remember it. I believe it actually got to number one. I also seem to remember it resouded with the words "I'm PROUD to be an AMERICAN" -- and then it came out that he was actually Canadian. I believe he also went on to do one about what a great country britain was. I'm so glad he didn't do an album and a tour. Get your own zoom email - click here - http://www.zoom.co.uk/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 06:01:56 -0400 From: Ted Subject: Re: Tunes for the times After listening to NPR all day Tuesday. by three o'clock I needed a break from it. The first CD I put on was Happy's "Warpaint", and I found quite a few relevant lyrics there. Plus it's a great album that helped lift my mental state noticeably. . .^_^ On a totally unrelated topic, Imogen Heap sings back-up on the pretty-darn-good new Nik Kershaw disc "To Be Frank". Not enough to really stand out, but completists have been notified. I just thought it was kind of doofy that I had to contact Canada to buy a German pressing of a British musician. . . That Ted guy. . . N.P. "To Be Frank" - Nik Kershaw N.R. Utne Reader ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 07:57:43 EDT From: MarkSuss@aol.com Subject: skyline What is a new day? A new day is the gift of 24 more hours to hope, to dream, to learn, to love. Mark Susskind ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 22:33:31 +1000 From: "heidi maier" Subject: Re: Songs for this week's tragedy. the song which echoes through my head, again and again, is sheryl crow's "redemption day": i've wept for those who suffer long but how i weep for those who've gone into rooms of grief and questioned wrong but keep on killing it's in the soul to feel such things but weak to watch without speaking oh what mercy sadness brings if god be willing there is a train that's heading straight to heaven's gate, to heaven's gate and on the way, child and man, and woman wait, watch and wait for redemption day fire rages in the streets and swallows everything it meets it's just an image often seen on television come leaders, come you men of great let us hear you pontificate your many virtues laid to waste and we aren't listening what do you have for us today throw us a bone but save the plate on why we waited til so late was there no oil to excavate? no riches in trade for the fate of every person who died in hate? throw us a bone, you men of great there is a train that's heading straight to heaven's gate, to heaven's gate and on the way, child and man, and woman wait, watch and wait for redemption day it's buried in the countryside it's exploding in the shells at night it's everywhere a baby cries freedom. warmly, heidi. - ------ "i want so much to write well, though i know i don't ... but during and at the end of my life, i will adore those who have." -- *dorothy parker* * heidi maier - maier@joynet.com.au * ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 09:06:10 -0500 From: "TB" Subject: Re: Phil, Response to Terror > tracy sez: > > > the actual UNABRIDGED text is as follows: > > >>President Bush must make his Peace with the Creator, and then rain the > >>fires of Hell on those who perpetrated this most heinous crime against > >>humanity. This is not a religious issue. Christians, Muslims, Jews, > >>members of every faith and citizens of every nation must stand > >>together, or they will fall alone > > And? > > As far as I can tell, Phil's point was about the rush toward violent > retaliation -- a concept with which I also have a difficult time. I > keep hearing about the anger everyone is purported to feel. Well I > don't feel it -- I feel a great sorrow and empathy with those who have > perished and those they have left behind. I'm not exactly a pacifist, > but the idea of answering this violence with more is upsetting. And the > idea that President Bush could be pushed into it out of a sense of > obligation or urgerncy driven by the media and the public is unsettling. Sorry if I was unclear. I took exception to somebody paraphrasing and calling that paraphrase unabridged text. Therefore I posted the unabridged text. The difference is in one case is somebody, however inappropriate the venue, calling for us to find and punish the guilty as opposed to somebody finding and punishing the innocent. To me that is a very basic difference and I apologize if anybody misunderstood me. Tracy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:47:43 -0400 From: "Jeffrey C. Burka" Subject: Re: Songs for this week's tragedy. Like Neal, I contemplated Gorecki, but decided it would be too painful to listen to that. To my mind, that symphony's purpose is to inspire remembrance in the future, to make it's listeners relive the sorrow they felt at the events as a memorial and a reminder. We have enough sorrow now; we don't need music to inspire more. Instead, I think songs of hope are more important. Joe suggested "Ode" which is probably about as appropriate as you can get. I believe it was meth who suggested Sarah's "Hold On" which is also very appropriate. A few dirgeful song that come to mind include Susan McKeown's "Gorm" and Jethro Tull's "Elegy" (particularly the symphonic version from the LSO's _A Classic Case: the LSO Plays the Music of Jethro Tull_). Susan has a song with a more positive note -- "Stone Boat" from _Mighty Rain_'s chorus is "And I'll bear my grief like a banner not like a boulder round my feet / And I will carry it to the water where I will set sail in a boat on it" _Mighty Rain_ came out as my grandfather lay languishing in a hospital and the during the months leading to his death imagery of being strong in one's grief was incredible powerful and important to me, and I think the message of not allowing one's grief to drag them down is incredibly apropos of the time. jeff (who is sure to think of others, but still has problems concentrating on any given task for too long) n.p. _Haunted_, Poe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 08:31:35 -0700 (PDT) From: "Scott S. Zimmerman" Subject: Re: Phil, Response to Terror I am curious what the "far greater attrocities" committed by the U.S. and U.K. are... Scott ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 08:31:25 -0700 From: damon of the tentacle Subject: Re: FW: Phil, Response to Terror On 13 Sep, Christopher Montville wrote: > Things that got me thinking: www.zmag.org/ZNET.htm (Especially the essays > by michael moore and noam chomsky) www.indymedia.com www.salon.com > (especially the peice about guliani vs. bush) etc. thanks, chris, for those links. one of the scariest things for me through all this has been how the sensationalistic, context-free news media corps still have a practical stranglehold on the information that goes out to the masses in our society. people i know use cnn as their only news source! when i read cnn it makes me very sad, and angry. totally sensationalistic headlines, no questioning of what might be the right path... no mention of so many things, and absolutely no historical context to shed light on the events! it seems as though the news corps have decided which way this should go and are doing their level best to steer it there! another fairly level-headed news source is www.stratfor.com. i don't really know anything about them, but a friend pointed them out and their articles seem to pick up where sources like cnn leave off. > "Don't turn tragedy into war" please please please. and yet it's obvious that's where george w and the american gov't are taking it. this is a huge opportunity to push so many agendas, and you can be sure it's not going to simply slip past. i'm sorry, but right now i wish i could pick up my country and move it much further from the US... the worst thing is, the harsher and less specific the `revenge' action now, the worse it's going to get in the future. violence does breed violence, in the long term, no matter what its proponents would have us believe to the contrary. i'm not saying nothing should be done about the people who directly perpetrated this attack, but you *know* it's going to amount to a lot more than that. in times like these, it's not just those capable of atrocities who get punished. we need leaders who actually try to ensure peace in the future, and we so rarely really have them. my opinion, of course. - -damon Damon Harper _/\_ "In the school debating society, damon@usrbin.ca __\ /__ i was voted the boy least \ / likely to complete a coherent.. http://www.usrbin.ca/damon/ |/||\| uh..." - George, BlackAdder IV ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 08:31:25 -0700 From: damon of the tentacle Subject: Re: FW: Phil, Response to Terror On 13 Sep, Christopher Montville wrote: > Things that got me thinking: www.zmag.org/ZNET.htm (Especially the essays > by michael moore and noam chomsky) www.indymedia.com www.salon.com > (especially the peice about guliani vs. bush) etc. thanks, chris, for those links. one of the scariest things for me through all this has been how the sensationalistic, context-free news media corps still have a practical stranglehold on the information that goes out to the masses in our society. people i know use cnn as their only news source! when i read cnn it makes me very sad, and angry. totally sensationalistic headlines, no questioning of what might be the right path... no mention of so many things, and absolutely no historical context to shed light on the events! it seems as though the news corps have decided which way this should go and are doing their level best to steer it there! another fairly level-headed news source is www.stratfor.com. i don't really know anything about them, but a friend pointed them out and their articles seem to pick up where sources like cnn leave off. > "Don't turn tragedy into war" please please please. and yet it's obvious that's where george w and the american gov't are taking it. this is a huge opportunity to push so many agendas, and you can be sure it's not going to simply slip past. i'm sorry, but right now i wish i could pick up my country and move it much further from the US... the worst thing is, the harsher and less specific the `revenge' action now, the worse it's going to get in the future. violence does breed violence, in the long term, no matter what its proponents would have us believe to the contrary. i'm not saying nothing should be done about the people who directly perpetrated this attack, but you *know* it's going to amount to a lot more than that. in times like these, it's not just those capable of atrocities who get punished. we need leaders who actually try to ensure peace in the future, and we so rarely really have them. my opinion, of course. - -damon Damon Harper _/\_ "In the school debating society, damon@usrbin.ca __\ /__ i was voted the boy least \ / likely to complete a coherent.. http://www.usrbin.ca/damon/ |/||\| uh..." - George, BlackAdder IV ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 09:04:31 -0700 (PDT) From: jack handy Subject: Re: Phil, Response to Terror to all you cool folks, another lurker is heard from...hope I don't seem inappropriate, but I've been reading all the posts and I am compelled to add my 'two cents', or in actuality, the words of a fellow I don't usually read or pay much attention to, as he is not on my first list of gurus. Hey Phil, you look like you took most of the hit for your post, I am with ya buddy. What follows was sent to me by a sweet, slightly airy-fairy lady friend, but the questions raised by this man are those I feel we need to answer. jack "there is never an easy way out" message from Deepak Chopra...... The Deeper Wound As fate would have it, I was leaving New York on a jet flight that took off 45 minutes before the unthinkable happened. By the time we landed in Detroit, chaos had broken out. When I grasped the fact that American security had broken down so tragically, I couldn't respond at first. My wife and son were also in the air on separate flights, one to Los Angeles, one to San Diego. My body went absolutely rigid with fear. All I could think about was their safety, and it took several hours before I found out that their flights had been diverted and both were safe. Strangely, when the good news came, my body still felt that it had been hit by a truck. Of its own accord it seemed to feel a far greater trauma that reached out to the thousands who would not survive and the tens of thousands who would survive only to live through months and years of hell. And I asked myself, Why didn't I feel this way last week? Why didn't my body go stiff during the bombing of Iraq or Bosnia? Around the world my horror and worry are experienced every day. Mothers weep over horrendous loss, civilians are bombed mercilessly, refugees are ripped from any sense of home or homeland. Why did I not feel their anguish enough to call a halt to it? As we hear the calls for tightened American security and a fierce military response to terrorism, it is obvious that none of us has any answers. However, we feel compelled to ask some questions. Everything has a cause, so we have to ask, What was the root cause of this evil? We must find out not superficially but at the deepest level. There is no doubt that such evil is alive all around the world and is even celebrated. Does this evil grow from the suffering and anguish felt by people we don't know and therefore ignore? Have they lived in this condition for a long time? One assumes that whoever did this attack feels implacable hatred for America. Why were we selected to be the focus of suffering around the world? All this hatred and anguish seems to have religion at its basis. Isn't something terribly wrong when jihads and wars develop in the name of God? Isn't God invoked with hatred in Ireland, Sri Lanka, India, Pakistan, Israel, Palestine, and even among the intolerant sects of America? Can any military response make the slightest difference in the underlying cause? Is there not a deep wound at the heart of humanity? If there is a deep wound, doesn't it affect everyone? When generations of suffering respond with bombs, suicidal attacks, and biological warfare, who first developed these weapons? Who sells them? Who gave birth to the satanic technologies now being turned against us? If all of us are wounded, will revenge work? Will punishment in any form toward anyone solve the wound or aggravate it? Will an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, and limb for a limb, leave us all blind, toothless and crippled? Tribal warfare has been going on for two thousand years and has now been magnified globally. Can tribal warfare be brought to an end? Is patriotism and nationalism even relevant anymore, or is this another form of tribalism? What are you and I as persons going to do about what is happening? Can we afford to let the deeper wound fester any longer? Everyone is calling this an attack on America, but is it not a rift in our collective soul? Isn't this an attack on civilization from without that is also from within? When we have secured our safety once more and cared for the wounded, after the period of shock and mourning is over, it will be time for soul searching. I only hope that these questions are confronted with the deepest spiritual intent. None of us will feel safe again behind the shield of military might and stockpiled arsenals. There can be no safety until the root cause is faced. In this moment of shock I don't think anyone of us has the answers. It is imperative that we pray and offer solace and help to each other. But if you and I are having a single thought of violence or hatred against anyone in the world at this moment, we are contributing to the wounding of the world. Love, Deepak If a friend gave this to you and you want to subscribe to Namaste, join at > www.chopra.com/namaste.htm or send an e-mail to > listserve@chopra.com with a blank Subject line, and the message text X "subscribe namaste". (Do not include the quotation marks.) X To post a prayer on the Prayer Circle Discussion Board: click http://www.chopra.com/ , click Prayer/Message Boards, and post a prayer. Deepak would love to hear your feedback. This message comes to you via the Namaste mailing list, hosted by Deepak Chopra and The Chopra Center for Well Being. __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:28:24 -0700 From: Phil Hudson Subject: RE: Phil, Response to Terror I am curious what the "far greater atrocities" committed by the U.S. and U.K. are... Scott Hi Scott In my opinion, any violent act, initiated either by a nation state or by individuals against an unarmed *civilian* population, is an atrocity. Lebanon, Sudan, Nicaragua, Hanoi, Belgrade, Iraq, Vietnam, are just examples in the most recent times. We go in and bomb civilians indiscriminately, which is a war crime, except that not much of that info gets into the mainstream press. It is conservatively estimated that around 2 million infants have died in Iraq over the past ten years, due to the deployment of either US sanctions or US military ordnance. I'm off my soapbox now as promised yesterday, but check out the links that Chris Montville kindly provided, (below), or read something by for example, Noam Chomsky, or the book Rogue State by William Blum. Essays and books by independent journalists such as these offer a case for an American government dedicated to the often brutal suppression of those nations who do not follow the US or Nato's political philosophy. In most cases it is the innocent citizens themselves who are the main casualties, just poor working schlubs like you and me, trying to make a living. Speaking of atrocities, it was the British, by the way, who invented concentration camps, not Nazi Germany... the Germans, as usual, just improved on the design... BTW: I have been accused of Anti American sentiment, offline. For the record; I am not in any way anti-American in the purest sense of that phrase; completely the contrary. The political ideals this country is based on are unassailable. however, these ideals have been subverted and this is now really all about Big Money and Influence; I think we all recognize that you don't get to be President by putting the interests of humanity before those of multinational corporations, and that 'they' insult our intelligence when they ask us to believe we are fighting to "free the poor, oppressed people of (ENTER COUNTRY NAME HERE)" I've probably spoken more about this on Ecto than any other topic, and I'd like to not clog it anymore with my political views, but I'll be happy to continue offline with anyone who wishes. Regards to all Phil Clip from Chris ( Thanks!) Things that got me thinking: www.zmag.org/ZNET.htm (Especially the essays by michael moore and noam chomsky) www.indymedia.com www.salon.com I am curious what the "far greater attrocities" committed by the U.S. and U.K. are... Scott Regards Phil ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:07:36 -0700 (PDT) From: "Xenu's Sister" Subject: Being contrary (As OT as could possibly be) In the wake of reading that Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson said liberal civil liberties groups, feminists, homosexuals and abortion rights supporters bear partial responsibility for Tuesday's terrorist attacks (because their actions have turned God's anger against America) and also having to endure a week of religious yap (hey, God *answered* prayers...those of the terrorists! Didn't anyone hear what bin Laden said??), this is SUCH a breath of fresh air! Statement on September 11 Terrorism Acts of Terrorism the Ultimate "Faith-Based Initiative"? September 13, 2001 This statement was released by the Freedom From Religion Foundation, a Madison, Wis.-based national association of freethinkers (atheists and agnostics) working to protect the constitutional separation of church and state since 1978. Representing our national membership of freethinkers, as well as the 18.5% of U.S. citizens who are not religious, we join in the national mourning over the events on September 11, a horrible and senseless human tragedy. However, Bush's proclamation of Friday, September 14 as a "National Day of Prayer and Remembrance" shows the pitfalls of the "God is on our side" mentality, and the dangers of religious patriotism. While it may be natural for religious persons to turn to religion or prayer for solace, it is not the role of the President of the United States, or his spokespersons, to urge citizens to pray, to go to church, to turn to faith, or to observe a National Day of Prayer with worship. In fact, it appears that the terrorist disasters of September 11 may well have been the ultimate "faith-based initiative." These terrorists apparently expected to find a reward "in heaven" and were bent on starting a "holy war" with our nation. Our country should not fall into the trap of religious terrorists: Holy wars don't have solutions, they just have body counts. Religion is not the answer, it is probably the problem. As Pascal put it: "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." Prayer had its chance on September 11, and it failed. Imagine the unanswered prayers of hundreds or thousands of the victims of these terrorists. Official prayer will not solve any problems. We believe it is appropriate for President Bush to call for a Day of Remembrance, but leave prayer up to individuals. Civil War Col. Robert G. Ingersoll reminds us: "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." The nonreligious are among the victims and their families, and are represented in the ranks of the heroes, the firefighters and police officers risking or giving their lives to save others. It is offensive that the President of all Americans disregards the convictions, even the existence, of the more than 10% of the population that is not religious. The "God is on our side" mentality was responsible for these tragic acts of terrorism. We must not compound the dangers by a "One Nation Under God" response. __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:41:58 -0400 From: Ian Clysdale Subject: Re: Phil, Response to Terror On Fri, Sep 14, 2001 at 08:31:35AM -0700, Scott S. Zimmerman wrote: > I am curious what the "far greater attrocities" committed by the U.S. > and U.K. are... OK, I'm going to delurk to address this question, because I think it's important to suggest some ways of thinking about this. As an activist who has spent a moderately large amount of his time over the last few years trying to educate and lobby people about the behaviour of the First World countries, I'm shocked at what has happened in the United States this week. Like almost everyone, it seems, I know people who were in the Trade Centre complex when the planes hit, although, fortunately, all of my acquaintances are safe. And in the wake of shock that is reverberating, I think it's really important to ask the people of America, the people of Canada, the people of the "Free World," to think about the actions that their governments have been performing over the last fifty years. This kind of shock and trauma has been perpetrated knowingly by elements within the government and military of the United States, and the damage is unacceptable. Probably the best examples of American terrorist activity can be seen from the Cold War era. In October 1984, for example, it was reported quite heavily in the world media (for references, do a web search, or e-mail me and I'll look them up, but they're all at home) about the manual of instruction that the CIA had prepared and distributed to the Contras, who it was funding in Nicaragua. This manual, entitled "Psychological Operations in Guerilla Warfare," encouraged kidnappings, political assassination, and the blowing up of public buildings - all in the service of destabilizing a foreign government. It's already been widely mentioned that Osama bin Laden's terrorist career began as an American agent coordinating attacks against the Soviets in Afghanistan, using many of the same technique that he has since used against the United States of America. Also funded heavily by the American government was ORDEN, the military dictatorship of El Salvador, whose policies drew incredible fire from Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch throughout the '80s. More recently, American policy in Sudan and in the Balkans has followed similar patterns. Plan Colombia - supposedly about drug control - has been used for massive political repression, and has involved the systemic depopulation of 'target areas.' And I haven't even touched on the Mid East, yet, which is thought by most to be the trigger for this retaliation against America. Violence against civilians is unacceptable. It is unacceptable because of the incredible emotional and spiritual fallout - a fallout that is almost impossible to imagine until it is felt firsthand. At this time of darkness, pain, and sorrow, I can only encourage people - especially those in the United States of America - to inform themselves on the atrocities that have been committed in the name of their country, and to tell their leaders that they find this unacceptable. I have been praying every night to all the Gods I hold sacred that unacceptable violence will not be matched with unacceptable violence in a cycle of "justified retaliations" which escalate at each step. Let us, as a people, state firmly and categorically that this kind of suffering shouldn't happen to *ANYONE*, not just to America. Siochaint agus Beannachtai (Peace and Blessings), ian. (ObEcto: Going to see Ian Tamblyn and a pile of people play tonight here in Ottawa at a fundraiser for NYC disaster relief efforts organized by the Ottawa Folk Festival. Highly looking forward to it. Very glad to hear that NYC artists are safe; was playing Rachael's albums most of Wednesday morning before we heard from her as a form of magical thinking. Neale: Gods, I still owe you that EctoGuide review from a year and a half ago. I'm a very bad person, and I really *will* do it soon. Back to Lurk Mode.) np: gas cd - fundraising cd for the quebec legal collective. (www.gascd.com) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 14:33:02 -0400 From: "Jeffrey C. Burka" Subject: puppylove a lot of folks have seen (and responded) to the calls from the american red cross for assistance. here's another of which I suspect Happy would approve, given her past support for the ASPCA and animal shelters: The National Disaster Search Dog Foundation From the website: "The National Disaster Search Dog Foundation is a non-profit organization that rescues dogs from shelters or breed rescue groups and turns them into rescuers. Dogs and firefighters are both professionally trained to search for victims when disaster strikes. In partnership with state emergency agencies, these dog/handler teams are community, state and national resources." jeff n.p. _Loose_, Victoria Williams (this contains a number of songs appropriate for the situation, per the earlier thread) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 12:44:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Castergine Subject: Re: Being contrary (As OT as could possibly be) Tell you what, Vicki. You don't post any more offensive tirades against religion and it's effects on our society and I won't post any offensive tirades against atheism and *it's* effects on our society. Fair 'nough? We should keep it out of ecto. There's already a forum for drawn-out religious, philiosophical and political debates -- rec.music.gaffa. ;) Stu ===== castergine@yahoo.com All young gentle dreams drowning In life's grief Can you hang on to me? -Kate Bush, _Big Stripey Lie_ __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 15:46:00 EDT From: FAMarcus@aol.com Subject: Re: Phil, Response to Terror In a message dated 9/14/01 2:32:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, phil@tiaranetworks.com writes: << It is conservatively estimated that around 2 million infants have died in Iraq over the past ten years, due to the deployment of either US sanctions or US military ordnance. >> and youre telling us that saddam is not responsible for this? that, if this is true, he couldnt have prevented this from happening. that he couldnt take the billions of dollars he has and bought the necessary medical items needed to take care of his people. do you understand at all what is going on over there? amazing. fred marcus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:50:06 -0500 From: "Dan Knoff" Subject: Re: Songs for this week's tragedy Valerie wrote: > I'm also looking for ideas for my radio show tomorrow. I had thought of > playing only somber instrumental music, but I don't know. I know that > several people in our audience lost family members in NYC, including one > woman whose sister was a stewardess on one of the planes, and many > people in our area had to struggle to get out of New York after the > blasts on Tuesday. There are almost don't seem to be words to adequately > express what we've all experienced this week. Since I've been in Cowboy Junkies mode lately, I'll offer three songs. 1000 Year Prayer off of their new cd, Open. It's a songs of hope and also the acknowledgement of the damage we have done to this planet, "but we got Jimi Hendrix, so let's call it an even split." Good Friday, with one of the best verses I've ever heard: "What will I tell you when you ask me why I'm crying? Will I point above at the Red Tail gracefully soaring or down to below where its prey is quietly trembling?" And, finally, No Birds Today: "No birds today Just this square patch of gray Molting sky moving in on its morning prey No words today No one knocking at the gate I lost my name long before I lost my way I wonder what he thinks out there Pastures turn from black to green and black again The sun it carves a well worn path from here to there and the next day back No birds today Just this dull sky of gray Winter's quickly moving in on its skulking prey No dust today No clouds rising from my driveway No hope drifting slowly my way I wonder what he thinks in there Pastures turn from black to green and black again The sun it carves a well worn path from here to there and the next day back Cold bars of steel I'm beginning to dig the feel of all that disappears into....ethereal Cold words of hate Now I'm seeing how things break Much too late now to cure my mistakes I wonder what he thinks in there Pastures turn from black to green and black again The sun it carves a well worn path from here to there and the next day back No birds today Just this barren stretch of gray Just this barren stretch of gray" Love and Peace, Dan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 15:55:03 EDT From: FAMarcus@aol.com Subject: Re: Being contrary (As OT as could possibly be) In a message dated 9/14/01 3:46:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, castergine@yahoo.com writes: << Tell you what, Vicki. You don't post any more offensive tirades against religion and it's effects on our society and I won't post any offensive tirades against atheism and *it's* effects on our society >> considering the events of this week, and all the posts that are all off subject, vicki was totally justified in presenting this point of view. i, for one, appreciated the point of view. thanks vicki fred marcus. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 15:58:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Heidi Heller Subject: ASPCA-puppylove- OT >a lot of folks have seen (and responded) to the calls from the american >red cross for assistance. here's another of which I suspect Happy would >approve, given her past support for the ASPCA and animal shelters: The National Disaster Search Dog Foundation ** What about the ASPCA itself? Read on: http://www.aspca.com/body_index.asp "In response to the World Trade Center disaster, the ASPCA has placed a fully-equipped mobile veterinary unit on the corner of Houston St. and West St. at the Hudson River Pier 40 in NYC. The ASPCA is now working with other authorities to remove pets from homes in the buffer zone (south of Canal St.). The ASPCA is providing emergency relief services to any areas where we can gain access to pets in need. The ASPCA is working with other authorities, including the NYC Parks Department to rescue animals trapped or left behind in buildings in lower Manhattan during daylight hours. Anyone interested in volunteering at the site of the mobile clinic, please e-mail volunteer@aspca.org. For more updated information, you can call the ASPCA Disaster Relief Hotline at (212) 876-7700 ext. 4PET (4738)." Checks can be made out to: ASPCA Animal Disaster Relief Fund 424 East 92nd Street New York, NY 10128-6804 To make a credit card donation, please call ASPCA's Linda Tiramani: 212-876-7700 ext. 4516 Supplies donations (in great need of dog booties for the search and rescue dogs) can be sent to: FEMA Control Center Jacob K. Javits Convention Center 655 West 34th Street New York, NY 10001-1188 212-947-4230 Heidi Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. -Mark Twain [Samuel Langhornne Clemens] (1835-1910) ********************************* Heidi Heller VMRCVM 2004 hheller@vt.edu ho@his.com ********************************* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 13:16:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Castergine Subject: Re: Being contrary (As OT as could possibly be) - --- FAMarcus@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/14/01 3:46:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > castergine@yahoo.com writes: > > << Tell you what, Vicki. You don't post any more offensive tirades > against > religion and it's effects on our society and I won't post any > offensive > tirades against atheism and *it's* effects on our society >> > > > considering the events of this week, and all the posts that are all > off > subject, vicki was totally justified in presenting this point of > view. i, > for one, appreciated the point of view. thanks vicki > To me, it was a foot in the door for a discussion very tangential to the attack, no less Ecto. The FFRF is about more than just protecting the separation of church and state. It's a society with a long tradition of open hostility to religion. They have a right to their opinion, but I feel as justified been offended by being fed their lies and propaganda here as I would expect any gays on the list to feel if a Falwell supporter started posting his anti-homosexual tracts here. I'm not a Christian, but you don't have to be a Christian to be an opponent of the FFRF; they oppose all religions equally. Besides, I've been down this road before or watched it in action, thus the joke about rec.music.gaffa, which I'm sure Vicki understood. I really would like to respond in detail, but all we'll do is go back and forth over it and nobody's views will be changed and we'll have wasted a lot of bandwidth. I've never seen an anti-religious person be argued out of his or her views or a religious person be argued out of his or her views on the net. Stu ===== castergine@yahoo.com All young gentle dreams drowning In life's grief Can you hang on to me? -Kate Bush, _Big Stripey Lie_ __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V7 #261 **************************