From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V6 #334 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Thursday, November 9 2000 Volume 06 : Number 334 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Voltaire [anna maria "stjärnell" ] Hi I'm New! ["Julio Ortega" ] Re: Erection Day ["Robert Lovejoy" ] Re: Voltaire [canetoad@panix.com] Twilight Festival (New York Ectophiles) [Craig Gidney ] RE: Voltaire [Loretta Pontillo ] RE: Mediocrity - Samson - Creativity [Loretta Pontillo ] RE: Mediocrity - Samson - Creativity ["Hotel America" ] RE: Mediocrity - Samson - Creativity [Neile Graham ] Re: erection day ["JoAnn Whetsell" ] Re: Aimee Mann [jjhanson@att.net] Oops--Misspoke re: Maria McKee Ultimate Collection [jjhanson@att.net] Re: election talk [RedWoodenBeads@aol.com] Re: election [RedWoodenBeads@aol.com] Re: election [RedWoodenBeads@aol.com] Re: election talk [Joseph Zitt ] Re: election [Joseph Zitt ] tacye, suvome, and happy about happy [Gordoja@aol.com] Re: election [Paul Blair ] Last Night's Political Discussion [tenthvictim@mindspring.com] Are there *any* Republicans/conservatives on this list??? [Larry Troxler ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 01:10:38 -0800 (PST) From: anna maria "stjärnell" Subject: Voltaire hi.. remember Voltaire? Not the french philosopher but the recording artist. His last cd was cool but The new one..Almost Human is way better. a twisted epic from the devil's perspective. It has a lush string based sound and biting lyrcis. Nick Cave dines with Rasputina in the transylvanian woods and encounters Alice Cooper on the way home. God Thinks is what Marilyn Manson would write if he wasnt a posing charlatan. A true doubters anthem. Not for everyone but so what? a very wonderful album for those of us who like the dark stuff. Anna Maria thanks to Jeff for getting this for me. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 09:00:41 -0300 From: "Julio Ortega" Subject: Hi I'm New! Hello! im new to the ecto list. I was weary about joining in until I got the mail of Happy's new site, and somehow that convinced me! My name is julio and im 19 years old. I am from argentina (south America) Thanks for reading this! julio ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 08:00:38 -0500 From: "Robert Lovejoy" Subject: Re: Erection Day I like what Michael Moore said: If you vote for the lesser of two evils, you're going to wind up with an evil. As mentioned, both major party candidates support the death penalty, which I am against. Both support the continuation of the war on (some) drugs, which has not only been a failure but has further polarized the country (not to mention the draconian search and seizure laws!). So I voted for Nader. I usually vote Libertarian but I thought maybe we could make 5%. I did not vote "for" Bush by doing this, I voted "for" Nader. Maybe he's not perfect, but his policies are much more in line with the way I fell than either of the major party corporate bozos. Bob Lovejoy number nine, number nine, number nine... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 10:35:58 -0500 (EST) From: canetoad@panix.com Subject: Re: Voltaire stjarnell@yahoo.com (anna maria "stjrnell") wrote: > Voltaire? Not the french philosopher but the recording artist. In addition to being a brilliant song writer, he's also an extremely talented stop-motion animator. Check out http://www.scifi.com/exposure for a 1-minute film he did a few years ago, narrated by Deborah Harry. There's also a preview of his upcoming 17-part Flash Movie, Chi-Chian, based on his comic. For anyone interested, here's a mini-review I wrote for some friends after his last NYC show (Tue, 8 Aug 2000): - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Last night I went to see Voltaire (http://www.voltaire.net and http://www.projekt.com/projekt/artist.asp?id=1015). The show was exactly what I expected, good music, clever lyrics, and lengthy, hilarious monologues. The best bit was his stories about having played DragonCon in Atlanta a month or so ago. Including the Klingon rap he put together for the occasion (Damn, I wish I had snuck in my minidisc recorder for this). What I like most about Voltaire is he can be really satirical about something, like Trek (or, well, the whole goth thing), while at the same time showing how much he loves it. His rap was peppered with references to warp core breaches, Worf's family line, and a bunch of other stuff only a real fanboy would know. Plus after the set he stayed at the club all night chatting with folks, although I didn't actually talk to him. Any artist who hangs with the fans gets points in my book. - Larne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 07:45:06 -0800 (PST) From: Craig Gidney Subject: Twilight Festival (New York Ectophiles) Anyone in New York City interested in this thing? I got it in my emailbox, and was toying with making a weekend to NYC, with this as its centerpiece... > Craig ***MORE LIVE NEWS: For fans of live ethereal, electronic and experimental music, Middle Pillar is very happy to sponsor the first ever TWILIGHT FESTIVAL, which will be held at Downtime in NYC on Saturday December 2nd, 2000. Featuring Middle Pillar artists, the evening will have performances by the MACHINE in the GARDEN (celebrating their new album, ?Out Of The Mists?), plus The Mirror Reveals and Thread. Special guest DJ will be the delightful Mistress McCutchan. This will be the only area performance from the Machine in the Garden, who haven?t graced the east coast with a show in almost 18 months. Plus we?ll also have giveaways, surprises, the Middle Pillar merchandise table, and, of course, the return of the Box O? Doom!! Look for a $ saving coupon on admission in our next email update. We?re planning on more Twilight Festivals outside of NYC, featuring a host of performances by various artists, hopefully coming to a city near you. (Interested parties should contact james@middlepillar.com) ===== Craig L. Gidney http://profile.yahoo.com/quisquose11 Reviews of books and music, http://www.egroups.com/group/Ethereality __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one Place. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 10:34:12 -0500 From: Mark Chapman Subject: Happy & Samson In reply to Lyle's thoughtful comments about Happy & Samson... > If I have my choice of some skinny twenty year old singing > about his girl or her boy and a thinker who sings about the human > condition, I'll swarm all over the thinker. Be careful how you choose your verb forms (swarm all over? ~ that's a tad stalker-like). And are you saying Happy isn't "skinny"? Hmmm. I beg to differ. Otherwise, I liked your comments. Just trying to inject some humor... ~Chaps P.S. Someone complained that writing to the auntiesocialmusic address didn't work. I sent a message and received no error message back, so I can only assume that it went through. Maybe you could try again. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 10:44:25 -0500 From: Loretta Pontillo Subject: RE: Voltaire is Voltaire the guy who sings "The Man Upstairs"? Damn funny! I got it off mp3.com. If that's what I'm thinking of, I can't recommend this hysterical and catchy tune enough. Loretta np: Frente, Labour of Love. over and over and over and over again. * From: anna maria "stjärnell [mailto:stjarnell@yahoo.com] * * * hi.. * remember Voltaire? Not the french philosopher but the * recording artist. His last cd was cool but The new * one..Almost Human is way better. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 11:07:07 -0500 From: Loretta Pontillo Subject: RE: Mediocrity - Samson - Creativity * -----Original Message----- * From: tenthvictim@mindspring.com [mailto:tenthvictim@mindspring.com] * * * I bet the Samson people wanted love songs out of Miss Rhodes. * What Samson didn't understand is most of Happy's songs are * love songs to the * human race. "Looking Over Cliffs," a * lament about what * whites have done to Indians and how they are somehow * mankind's salvation in * their extinction. "Collective Heart," a celebration of our * togetherness * (computer assisted though it may be). In "Save Our Souls" Miss Rhodes * points out our emptiness. She is pointing this out for our * edification so * that we can stop looking toward the heavens for our salvation and turn * inward and do something about our feeling of emptiness. I like that. I think it's a great point, that they're love songs for the human race. Also, a song like Murder is a love song for life itself, and If I Ever See the Girl Again is about loving your own stupid self. :) As for Happy being or not being a great lyricist-- it's all a matter of persepctive. I mean, I love Ani DiFranco half to death, but some of her lyrics are pretty moronic. "You've been juggling two women/like a stupid circus clown" ??? Others of her lyrics are so drop dead amazing that you let it go. Or even Joni. "I am a lonely painter, I live in box of paints"? What the heck is that?I love that song but every time I hear that line I just sort of shake my head. Happy has her own strengths. She has a way of just SAYING it, putting it out there. Maybe it's not the most poetic thing ever, but a song like "I don't want to hear it," haven't you all felt like that at some point? "although I care very much/ no I don't want to hear it anymore." Or a song like "words weren't made for cowards." It just puts it out there. That's what I want from songs. It's great when a song has "sentences that stop me like a brick wall" but most of the time, to mess with a line from the movie Shadowlands - -- "we listen to know we're not alone." At least that's why I listen. :) np: Frente, but every other song is "Labour of Love." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 14:21:47 -0600 From: "ReNeEz DaBoMb" Subject: Re: Hi I'm New! Hello Julio.. welcome aboard... I'm glad you joined... Us young ectos need to stick together (TeeHee) hope you enjoy the list ~Renee - ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Julio Ortega" Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 09:00:41 -0300 Hello! im new to the ecto list. I was weary about joining in until I got the mail of Happy's new site, and somehow that convinced me! My name is julio and im 19 years old. I am from argentina (south America) Thanks for reading this! julio - -- ThIs Is WhY pEoPle Od On PiLlS, aNd JuMp FrOm ThE gOlDeN gAtE bRiDgE... aNy ThInG tO fEeL wEiGhTlEsS aGaIn! - -- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 15:48:05 EST From: "Hotel America" Subject: RE: Mediocrity - Samson - Creativity Hey now... I know your criticism of Ani's and Joni's weaker lyrics were just meant to make a point about Happy, but it's important to note that both of the lines you quoted were not from their more mature work. I find it interesting that the general public's conception of an artist is almost always frozen in time at the point when they first hit the public consciousness. Ani is no longer the hyper, obnoxious grrl who bragged about her bisexuality on her first several albums. Listen to To The Teeth: every lyric IS a classic. I truly think that Ani has reached a point where she no longer needs to shove her lyrics in the listener's face...she's learned sublety, and I think her lyrics have benefitted tremendously as a result. Same thing with Joni...the line you quoted from "A Case of You" is 30 YEARS OLD! Joni is an even more frustrating case of being frozen in the public consciousness, because she has continually been producing AMAZING work all along and yet the public talks about her as if she were already dead. (Joni has said these exact words on occasion.) When someone says they recently became a Joni Mitchell fan, that means a friend recommended "Court and Spark", not that they're in even remotely in touch with what the artist is ACTUALLY doing nowadays. My point about Joni is that she made leaps and bounds in lyric writing after 1971, creating some of the most lyrically beautiful and most intriguing, poetic songs ever written; I still do consider her to be the best lyricist in popular music. Happy is great, but I don't really see how she can compete in this arena... --Chuck >From: Loretta Pontillo >To: "'ecto'" >Subject: RE: Mediocrity - Samson - Creativity >Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 11:07:07 -0500 > > > >* -----Original Message----- >* From: tenthvictim@mindspring.com [mailto:tenthvictim@mindspring.com] >* >* >* I bet the Samson people wanted love songs out of Miss Rhodes. > >* What Samson didn't understand is most of Happy's songs are >* love songs to the >* human race. > > "Looking Over Cliffs," a >* lament about what >* whites have done to Indians and how they are somehow >* mankind's salvation in >* their extinction. "Collective Heart," a celebration of our >* togetherness >* (computer assisted though it may be). In "Save Our Souls" Miss Rhodes >* points out our emptiness. She is pointing this out for our >* edification so >* that we can stop looking toward the heavens for our salvation and turn >* inward and do something about our feeling of emptiness. > >I like that. I think it's a great point, that they're love songs for the >human race. Also, a song like Murder is a love song for life itself, and If >I Ever See the Girl Again is about loving your own stupid self. :) > >As for Happy being or not being a great lyricist-- it's all a matter of >persepctive. I mean, I love Ani DiFranco half to death, but some of her >lyrics are pretty moronic. "You've been juggling two women/like a stupid >circus clown" ??? Others of her lyrics are so drop dead amazing that you >let >it go. Or even Joni. "I am a lonely painter, I live in box of paints"? What >the heck is that?I love that song but every time I hear that line I just >sort of shake my head. > >Happy has her own strengths. She has a way of just SAYING it, putting it >out >there. Maybe it's not the most poetic thing ever, but a song like "I don't >want to hear it," haven't you all felt like that at some point? "although I >care very much/ no I don't want to hear it anymore." Or a song like "words >weren't made for cowards." It just puts it out there. That's what I want >from songs. It's great when a song has "sentences that stop me like a brick >wall" but most of the time, to mess with a line from the movie Shadowlands >-- "we listen to know we're not alone." At least that's why I listen. :) > >np: Frente, but every other song is "Labour of Love." _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 16:10:18 -0500 From: Loretta Pontillo Subject: RE: Mediocrity - Samson - Creativity * -----Original Message----- * From: Hotel America [mailto:hotel_america@hotmail.com] * Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 3:48 PM * To: lpontillo@exchange-east.xceed.com; ecto@smoe.org * Subject: RE: Mediocrity - Samson - Creativity * * * Hey now... I know your criticism of Ani's and Joni's weaker * lyrics were just * meant to make a point about Happy, but it's important to note * that both of * the lines you quoted were not from their more mature work. Actually, the "circus clown" line is from the song Gravel, which is one of her more recent songs. It first showed up on the live double album in '97 and then was on Little Plastic Castle, which was about '98. And for the record, I have every album, from the self-titled debut to To the Teeth, and I love all of them. ani has matured a lot, but she still is sort of uneven. She just writes 'em fast and moves on. This is not an insult. I love Ani half to death. If I ever met her, I'd faint dead away. I think she's brilliant. But she's not perfect, and a good 20% of her songs I'm not wild about. We are, none of us, out of reach of failure. I find it * interesting that the general public's conception of an artist * is almost * always frozen in time at the point when they first hit the public * consciousness. Ani is no longer the hyper, obnoxious grrl * who bragged about * her bisexuality on her first several albums. I don't think of her that way. I don't think I ever did. The first song I ever heard of hers was Not So Soft, and I fell in love with the mellow spell her voice cast. She had hyper, obnoxious, bisexuality bragging SONGS. but she had other songs, too. That's ani for you. * Same thing with Joni...the line you quoted from "A Case of * You" is 30 YEARS * OLD! Do please be calm! My only point was, even the greats have moments of weakness, even within their moments of greatness. That is all I'm saying. And I'm not that much of a fan of some of Joni's later work, to be honest, but I still think of her as a musical goddess, much like I do Ani. There's no need to attack me. A lot of people on this list are mighty belligerant. Is there a need for that? Aren't we supposed to be comrades in arms here? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 13:33:36 PST From: eperkins@surfbest.net Subject: Re: Mediocrity - Samson - Creativity I'll also point out the obvious argument that can be made in pretty much any discussion--that lyrics are in the eye of the beholder. While I agree that Ani's songwriting has matured over the years, I really like the in-your-face quality of her earlier lyrics. Sometimes that really works for me. And interestingly, the Joni Mitchell line quoted from "Case of You" is one I've always liked, and I was surprised at it being pointed out as a weak lyric. I guess it just depends on people's interpretations and what moves them... - -Emily On Thu, 09 Nov 2000 15:48:05 EST "Hotel America" wrote: > Hey now... I know your criticism of Ani's and Joni's weaker lyrics > were just > meant to make a point about Happy, but it's important to note that > both of > the lines you quoted were not from their more mature work. This message powered by EMUMAIL. -- http://www.EMUMAIL.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 17:25:32 -0500 From: Chuck Davis Subject: Aimee Mann To any Aimee Mann fans on the ecto list thinking of buying an album put out under her name called "The Ultimate Collection", please read a message from Aimee herself on her official web page concerning this album. http://aimeemann.com/news/letter1.html C. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 15:11:06 -0800 From: Neile Graham Subject: RE: Mediocrity - Samson - Creativity For me the most telling part of the Samson people's problems with Happy's songwriting is that they didn't see top ten material in it. They didn't see growth in her songwriting, which is only amazing when you think of it in terms of the kind of songwriting that makes for hit. It's true, Happy's songwriting hasn't grown closer to that through the course of her career. Personally I don't see why some of her songs couldn't chart if they were given the right push, but I can't see any of her songs being a "hit". When that's what a label's looking for, most of the artists on ecto are going to miss you. Sarah McLachlan is probably the most commercial ecto favourite right now, and even her music doesn't chart that highly, does it? (Not to mention that the music of hers that has been the most popular is music many ectophiles--like me--don't care for.) So I see plenty of growth in Happy's songwriting, but she's growing in a different, and to my ears, richer way. And speaking of all getting along, this list has a long tradition of being friendly and flame-free. We haven't always managed the flame-free part, but I like to think that we can show respect for differing opinions here, whether they're musical or political. Sure we're passionate about our favourites, but we don't need to bite at people with different opinions. Let's go back to our tradition of being a warm and welcoming list. It's the music that matters. - --Neile n.p. Terami Hirsch, _all girl band_ which refuses to leave my disc player - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Neile Graham ...... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ....... neile@sff.net Les Semaines: A Weekly Journal . http://www.sff.net/people/neile/semaines The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music ....... http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 18:06:12 EST From: "JoAnn Whetsell" Subject: Re: erection day I admit to being fairly naive about politics, but there were a few thoughts I wanted to share. James Mitchell wrote: "There are of course going to be diferences. Ultimately though, what the last administration has taught me is that in our current political climate, the threats that Republicans pose to life, to liberty, and to property, are diferent but no less profound than those posed by the Democrats. Bill Clinton has happily backed nearly every measure to reach his desk that infringed on first amendment rights, that narrowed the definition of illegal search and seizure, or broadened the reach of large corporations. Democrats have a reputation for being soft on crime, but Bill Clinton has been an unwavering advocate for broadening the powers of the FBI. On these counts, Al Gore has convinced me that he would not only continue on the same path, but step up his support for the erosion of the constitution. Further, as an oponent of the death penalty, I find it disturbing that both Gore and Bush have publically favored it, even now as it becomes increasingly aparent that in many cases there are grave issues with the process, to the extent of executing innocent men." I agree there are some things about Clinton and Gore that really bother me. The disastrous and outrageous "don't ask, don't tell" plan for the military is both unfair (to put it mildly) and simply doesn't work. The welfare reforms hurt a lot of people. I'm sure there are other things I can't think of off the top of my head. Unfortunately, with a Republican-controlled Congress, one has to compromise. I wish not this much. Gore's pro-death penalty stance does bother me, especially when he said in a debate that he does think it is a deterrent to crime, which I seriously doubt, besides the countless moral and practical arguments against it. I thought Clinton passing a bill for increased military spending so that Gore could look more pro-military was weak. I think Gore's continued talk about hate crimes legistlation, as an appeal for minority voter support, is pretty weak, considering that there are a lot deeper and more important issues than getting hate crimes legislation passed, particularly for black Americans (though I know hate crimes law would extend beyond A-A's and beyond racial/ethnic minorities) "Abortion? It survived Nixon. It survived Reagan. It survived George Bush Sr. Perhaps Bush will nominate judges that are more conservative than Gore would, but given Clinton's record there, its hard to believe the balance will be unduly shifted." It's difficult to be liberal when you have to get approval for your actions from a Republican-controlled Congress. As it is, Clinton has nominated more women and minorities than any other president. Of course, being a woman or a minority does not automatically make one liberal, but there is a tendency in that direction. Unfortunately, the confirmation hearings of many women and minorities were held up for months. Some nominees are still in the process. Meanwhile, conservatives and white men pretty much sailed through their hearings. Furthermore, the Supreme Court is getting old. Old isn't bad, just more likely that justices will retire or die and need replacement. It's public knowledge that Scalia is interested in retiring, particularly if a Republican administration gets in so that his seat will be sure to go to another conservative. The new President will probably have the opportunity to appoint several Supreme Court justices and district court (last stop before the Supreme Court, and usually the last stop for civil cases since the Supremem Court only hears a few cases each year) judges, people whose terms of office will long outlast his own. Moreover, I think having the three main branches of government (executive, legislative, and judicial) all controlled by one party (and that party not one to my liking) is pretty scary. All Bush's talk of bipartisanship... and where will the motivation be when Republicans in power can push through just about anything they want. Granted, there are left-leaning and moderate Republicans, so real right-wing agendas will probably not get through. "Last night, as I waited to see what would become of us, whether it would be Satan or Dracula who got the girl in the final reel, I turned up an interesting Nader phenomenon in the exit polls. It was hardly an exhaustive look, but it appears in many places that the Nader camp was fairly evenly divided idealogically. I doubt he drew too heavily from the Pave the Forrests / Abortion doctors should be tried for Murder camp, but he got a reasonable fraction of his support from the moderate right, as well as from the Left. Its a trend I saw repeated among the people I knew as well. There are as many, if not more conservatives concerned with the civil rights and trade issues that were Nader's bread and butter through the campaign." I don't know about this. It seems that when Perot ran, he pretty much evenly split between Democrats and Republicans. From the exit polling I saw of this election, it seemed pretty clear that most people voting for Nader would otherwise have voted for Gore (if they'd voted at all, which is difficult to estimate, but worth remembering). I would have liked to see Nader get the 5% necessary to get federal funding and take part in debates next time around, and I don't think Nader supporters or Nader voters are "democracy killers." I've never heard anyone espouse such a belief. But I do think it's sad that in critical states, votes for Nader might have cost Gore electoral votes that would put him in the White House and, more importantly, keep George W. Bush out. JoAnn _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 23:09:38 +0000 From: jjhanson@att.net Subject: Re: Aimee Mann I imagine that this would also apply to Maria McKee's Ultimate Collection released by Hip-O (as Maria's website doesn't mention this album). However, I do think that, while far from being the Ultimate Collection, it isn't a bad intro to her work--both solo and with Lone Justice--the the LJ compilation--The World is Not My Home is probably better overall. Jeff Hanson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 23:18:16 +0000 From: jjhanson@att.net Subject: Oops--Misspoke re: Maria McKee Ultimate Collection Oops--I guess I should have checked Maria's website again before stating that about Hip-ORecords--she actually does list it, says she hopes it tides fans over, and thanks the guy wrote the liner notes--I guess she's not as opposed to it as I thought she might be. She's also in the process of mixing the new album--but has no idea when it will be out or who will release it. Jeff Hanson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 18:35:51 EST From: RedWoodenBeads@aol.com Subject: Re: election talk In a message dated 11/8/00 11:03:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org writes: << Or maybe not so wonderful... if you consider that ralph nader basically acted as a spoiler for Gore. Do you green party voters really believe that there is no difference between a Gore and Bush white house?!? Gimme a break! >> Well I'm pretty darn pleased that Bush will be entering the whitehouse. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 18:54:48 EST From: RedWoodenBeads@aol.com Subject: Re: election In a message dated 11/8/00 11:03:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org writes: << Look, no vote casted is a vote wasted. There are parts of me that are sad that Bush might just very well win becuase of the nader factor. But the thing is, Nader is our best hope. And if people don't vote for him, he's not going to get any support. We need to look to the future. I despise Bush but maybe next election they'll let Ralph debate, fer crissakes. >> I tend to agree more with Bush. I think everyone who pays taxes should get relief, not just the people the government decides deserves them, and I think that Bush's accountability education plan could be very effective. But the main reason I would prefer Bush over Gore is because I am very passionate about the issue of abortion. It's something I've been following for a long time now, and I've been involved in a lot of local charity efforts to help unwed mothers and that sort of thing. I tend to think that a lot of women who seek out abortion are vulnerable and feel prompted to go ahead with the procedure, whether it be because of their boyfriends or families, etc pushing them to do it. I know there are a lot of issues, everything from rape to financial factors, but I just can't see killing the baby as the answer. If anything that just seems like additional emotional scars to deal with. In addition, as a member of the only generation so far to grow up with abortion, I feel a great deal of people from my age group have been deprived of life, which really bothers me. In a sense, millions of my brothers and sisters will never see the sun or breathe the air because they have been killed before they could even come into the world. I'm not saying we should outright swing the law in the opposite direction, but I think this is an issue that people should really think about and understand. But I think partial birth abortion needs to be banned. Like Mr. Nadar, I don't see any extreme differences between Gore and Bush (especially compared to elections from the past). But all I know is that Gore is in favor of abortion anytime anyplace, and Bush is hoping to work to reduce abortions. So that sways me. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 18:59:55 EST From: RedWoodenBeads@aol.com Subject: Re: election In a message dated 11/8/00 11:03:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org writes: << Look, it was not my responsibility to vote for Gore; it was Gore's responsibility to earn my vote. He did not do that. I could never in my life support someone like Bush, or nutters like Buchanan. Nader spoke out against corporate control of society, which is something that I see. And I felt that I could believe him, so he earned my vote. I have no guilt over this, nor should anyone else. >> What makes Buchanan a "nutter"? The main thing that bothers me about Buchanan is his hostility towards immigrants from Mexico, but he's no more of a right wing extremist than Nadar is a left-wing extremist. Personally, I think it's the government that looms the greater danger to controlling our lives than any privately owned corporation. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 18:30:57 -0500 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: election talk On Thu, Nov 09, 2000 at 06:35:51PM -0500, RedWoodenBeads@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/8/00 11:03:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, > owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org writes: > > << Or maybe not so wonderful... if you consider that ralph nader basically > acted as a spoiler for Gore. Do you green party voters really believe that > there is no difference between a Gore and Bush white house?!? Gimme a > break! >> > > Well I'm pretty darn pleased that Bush will be entering the whitehouse. Whatever it was that I uncharacteristically agreed with you on a while back, I hereby recant :-) - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 18:35:06 -0500 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: election On Thu, Nov 09, 2000 at 06:54:48PM -0500, RedWoodenBeads@aol.com wrote: > I tend to agree more with Bush. I think everyone who pays taxes should get > relief, not just the people the government decides deserves them, and I think > that Bush's accountability education plan could be very effective. No, Bush believes that people who make a lot of money should get even more. Then he handwaves away any information to the contrary as "too complicated". For whom? Did people actually vote for someone who believes that they are stupid? And the dichotomy of "government" vs "people" is a smokescreen. The people *are* the government. It frightens me that people who do not understand what government is may be chosen to run it. - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 22:08:34 EST From: Gordoja@aol.com Subject: tacye, suvome, and happy about happy Has anyone heard the album by Tacye? http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/71/tacye.html I just got it recently and it has knocked my socks off...from her web site: "Tacye is an artist entirely unique in the world of contemporary pop music. So unusual is her evocative meshing of Eastern and Western rhythms and influences that she's developed her own genre of music. She calls it "Ethereal." One can place Tacye in comfortable contemporary company with other singular women artists like Olive, Jewel, Paula Cole, Bjork, Tanya Donnelly, Kristin Hersh and Enya, as well as established avant garde female artists like Kate Bush, Daniel Dax, Julie Cruise, and Elizabeth Frazier. I Don't Need A Gun, her first US album, contains tracks that swoop and flutter through a variety of sounds from richly textured drum & bass to simple acoustic arrangements to alternative dance to deeply fluid dub. It's textural variety has been equated to a journey through moods and emotions ranging from dark despair to light-hearted joy. Musically, it is equally diverse, with influences from early Baroque to Psychedelic to Punk being apparent in the elaborate musical compositions. Although varied and diverse, the songs on the album work well together as a whole. The key unifying element lies in the strength and integrity of the basic song structures. The compositions can be stripped down to their basic elements and performed in any manner that one desires without losing musical quality. Thus, Tacye's debut album is a special double CD that contains a bonus second CD of a purely acoustic version of the same album." Another Australian CD that I just picked up and really like is Suvome's "TheSunlightEmbassy"...does anyone know anything about them? Also, finally the 7 happy albums I do not yet own are on order :) :) A little bit of ews never hurts too much. - -Jason np Stephanie Wright (another wow album that's going to be on my top ten for sure) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 22:20:02 -0500 From: Paul Blair Subject: Re: election Joe Zitt wrote: >No, Bush believes that people who make a lot of money should get even more This statement package-deals taking money from one person and giving it to someone else, with refraining from taking it in the first place. It rests on the assumption that individuals' lives are public property. Not that I'm any great Bush enthusiast. Some of us believe that individuals should get to keep *all* the money they earn, regardless of how much, and that government has no business taking from some people to give to others, regardless of the need of the recipients. >And the dichotomy of "government" vs "people" is a smokescreen. The >people *are* the government. I see. So suppose Bush is elected. But then the people *are* the government...so Bush's policies ipso facto are in the interest of the people...? I see no justification for aggregating individuals' values into a big collective heap like this. I'm surprised anyone who passionately values non-mainstream music could think so. It's no secret that even here the government wants to censor music "for the common good." If the people "are" the government, if government policy expresses *your* true will, what right have you to disagree? I personally am no great fan of having political discussions on ecto. But if we're going to have them, let's drop the pretense that everyone here basically shares the same political values. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2000 21:49:21 -0600 From: tenthvictim@mindspring.com Subject: Last Night's Political Discussion Well, I thought you would be discussing Happy Rhodes' website last = night. I hope you guys like our li'l ol' governor. I reckon he can't do too = much to harm America. If we survived Reagan and Bush, we can survive = George W. Unless he does an about face in office, he should be moderate = enough to leave us in peace. Whoever winds up as president will = probably preside over a recession. It won't be a pleasant presidency. As they inaugurate whichever rich son of a politician is on the stand in = January, just hum "Won't Get Fooled Again" to yourself. "Meet the new = boss. Same as the old boss." Bye, Lyle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 23:21:57 -0500 From: Larry Troxler Subject: Are there *any* Republicans/conservatives on this list??? Geez, what a curse it has been to be born with a love of music, but also with rightward political leanings :-) Obviously, it is not only this list, but a strange artifact of artistically oriented people in general, that they tend to be environmentalists, liberals, vegetarian, homosexual-aware, bla bla bla! Any theories as to why this is? I am not at all ridiculing that type of mentailty - rather, I'm wondering why there seems to be a link between artistic personalities, and that type of political view. Is it perhaps genetic? Maybe the type of brain that is wired for art also typically is wired towards left-tending political views? Or is it environmental/social, because some existing correlation feeds on itself, so that someone artistically or musically inclined, tends to interact with people who are also left-political, which tends to further fuel the correlation? Certainly, there must be a lot of writing discussing the reasons for this. Can anyone point me to some? A very interesting topic for me, since I seem to be the exception to the rule. Larry n.p. - Rush Limbaugh (ok, just kiding guys!) ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V6 #334 **************************