From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V6 #277 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Tuesday, September 19 2000 Volume 06 : Number 277 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Amy Fairchild fans?/Pamela Means ["Emily Perkins" ] generational opinions [karen hester ] Re: was equation now Eliza Carthy ["Suzanna Otting" ] Re: equation [Neile Graham ] Re: Amy Fairchild fans? [the real dick cheney ] Re: mbv [the real dick cheney ] Re: Amy Fairchild fans? [Steve VanDevender ] Re: Al Gore [Joseph Zitt ] RE: Alt.AlGore.lightbulb.internet.claims.sorry [Phil Hudson ] Re: ecto-digest V6 #276 [Joseph Zitt ] Nader (was Re: Al Gore) [Michael Curry ] More Gore [dave ] Re: ecto-digest V6 #274 [lanblind@teleport.com] Re: Al Gore [american damon ] Re: mbv [american damon ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 23:19:07 -0700 From: "Emily Perkins" Subject: Re: Amy Fairchild fans?/Pamela Means I picked up her EP at Ectofest and like it a lot. She's one of those artists who make me surprised at how much I like them - not as removed from straightforward pop as what I usually go for, but for some reason she's original enough to interest me. Has anyone heard her other album? How does that compare to the EP? I know Pamela Means has been mentioned here before but don't remember what was said, though I think it was good. Can anyone tell me what she's like live (or on CD, for that matter)? I'm trying to decide if I should go see her this week. - -Emily - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 4:32 PM Subject: Amy Fairchild fans? > Is anyone on this list a fan of Amy Fairchild? I heard you guys mention her > set at ECTOFEST so I decided to check her out. I just got her new EP in the > mail today (autographed and all--she is so cool hehe), it is INCREDIBLE! Her > songs are smart and edgy, very very cool stuff here! > ~eric > > http://www.amyfairchild.com > > "I need you because you let me breathe > Well you've taken me away > But never take me lightly > Or I could never stay" > ~Stevie Nicks ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 05:02:57 -0400 From: Valerie Richardson Subject: Re: was equation now Eliza Carthy > I had a brief glimpse of Kate Rusby's voice recently when Billi and I were in > Europe. She was featured on a documetary program on what I believe was the > European subsidiary of CNN. The program was called World Beat (I believe). They > also featured another artist from the new English folk scene, Eliza Carthy (I > think that's her correct name. Any relation to Martin Carthy?). I liked what > little I heard of both women. Can you recommend a good starting point for both of > them. Please give me some specifics. BTW, I have meant to ask this for awhile and > am just now getting around to it. The post reminded me. Thanks in advance! > Regarding Eliza: Yes, Eliza is the child of Martin Carthy and Norma Waterson. She's an incredibly energetic young woman, and she follows her parent's devotion to traditional music while also recording her own original and sometimes experimental works. She's a fiddle fiend and given to coloring her hair bright shades of fushia and wearing combat boots. I understand that she's also an explorer scout leader. A good starting place for her recorded music is a two-CD set called _Red Rice_ with one CD of traditional music and one of original recordings. She also has recorded several CDs with her parents and with fellow fiddler Nancy Kerr. - --Valerie Richardson np: Recording of Bill Bryson's _In a Sunburned Country_ from audible.com. I seem to have quit listening to music for the time being, and I'm only listening to books on tape. I hope I start listening to music again soon. This is disturbing. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 06:59:46 -0400 From: Mark Miazga Subject: Re: Al Gore > We're Ectos here... how can we be having this discussion, be e-mails into > this discussion, and not be talking about Ralph Nader. I think Nadar is a smart man, and may even make a good president. I welcome the fact that he entered the race. But, at this point, the only thing that's keeping him in the race is a large ego. He's got no chance of winning, and his candidacy now only gives votes to Bush. I firmly believe a vote for Nadar is a vote for Bush. > Sure, eventually the 3rd parties will be corrupt, and we'll do it > again. But it's time that in a democracy, we have more than two (and > arguably, with as much moderatism in the parties, one) parties to choose > from. I think it's good that third parties come in and raise issues that otherwise wouldn't be talked about. But I'm not so sure I would like them to raise to prominence. Much of our political stability is due to the fact that we have a 2-party system - look at other countries with more parties and you'll see a lot of instability and unrest. Sure, we might have some issues with getting legislation passed, but that would be much, much worse if a third party entered the fray. If you think our government has a lot of red tape now, just imagine if we had three parties. Bipartisan politics are a challenge... tripartisan would be even more challenging. - - Mark (who really likes Al Gore) - -- Mark Miazga miazgama@msu.edu http://go.to/MarkMiazga 157 Phillips Hall East Lansing, MI 48825 (517) 355-4991 http://www.msu.edu/~miazgama Masters of Arts in Curriculum and Teaching Student Teacher, Eastern High School Assistant Hall Director, Snyder-Phillips Hall ********************************** I Support Al Gore for US President & Debbie Stabenow for US Senate! http://www.algore2000.com http://www.stabenow2000.net/ ********************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 23:09:38 +1200 From: karen hester Subject: generational opinions Kia Ora Lyle (tenthvictim@mindspring.com) wrote: >I just joined the list and wanted to say hello. I have enjoyed the >discussion of aesthetics. You guys set me off on an internal monologue >in which I have been evaluating what makes something a lasting work of >art. Without going into great detail, I think art is perceived by each >generation in a new way. What was beautiful in the past and what is >beautiful now may not be viewed the same in the future. That generational slant through which we approach music is such a major factor, yeah. Music generations are minute too - the divisions were particularly sharp as a teenager for me, where the band that was so revolutionary and inspiring and uniting to those one year younger was just so derivative and blahhh to me. Hopefully if music isn't so tied to forming an identity when we're older, we don't need to discover something new that our elders don't understand. Then we can appreciate musical innovation which isn't attached to style and subcultural changes. And maybe notice the value of something that wasn't cool during its time. american damon asked about woj's assertion that early My Bloody Valentine was "> rather sweet and catchy but plain pop. " My Bloody Valentine to me is "strawberry wine" and other such purdy tuneful inconsequential stuff with a bit of a Jesus&MaryChain feedback overlay. I can't think of them as important musically as they're stalled in my head in their earlier incarnation :) It's a bit sad how minor musical innovation can seem a few years later. Jesus & Mary Chain's _Psychocandy_ seemed revolutionary to me when it came out - imagine coming up with Beach Boys tunes smothered in feedback! such art! music will never be the same again! and then it all dies away and, well, *of course* grungey guitars and tuneful pop go together, who could ever have thought that was wonderful and new? The music that comes after makes the forerunners seem so conservative. karen. (np Patty Griffin live at Birchmere - am in fear of the production that may happen with ..to.. her new album, she's so stunning as is ...) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 06:50:00 -0700 From: "Suzanna Otting" Subject: Re: was equation now Eliza Carthy - -- On Tue, 19 Sep 2000 05:02:57 Valerie Richardson >Regarding Eliza: Yes, Eliza is the child of Martin Carthy and Norma >Waterson. She's an incredibly energetic young woman, and she follows her >parent's devotion to traditional music while also recording her own >original and sometimes experimental works. She's a fiddle fiend and >given to coloring her hair bright shades of fushia and wearing combat >boots. I understand that she's also an explorer scout leader. > >A good starting place for her recorded music is a two-CD set called _Red >Rice_ with one CD of traditional music and one of original recordings. >She also has recorded several CDs with her parents and with fellow >fiddler Nancy Kerr. > >--Valerie Richardson I saw Eliza Carthy in concert earlier this year, when she was touring with Joan Baez. Her voice is very similar to Joan's, and she was acting as a sort of backup/duet singer, as Joan's vocal power has deteriorated with age. Eliza's hair was blue then, and her concert presence wasn't wonderful, but her voice is. I recommend looking into her music-- she writes some of her own, but she is very much into traditional music, which is where she excels. Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 10:14:30 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Al Gore On Tue, Sep 19, 2000 at 12:54:17AM -0400, RavFlight@aol.com wrote: > Fact is, that if we were to step up to this > plate and say, you know what, I don't like either of them..so I am voting for > a 3rd party candidate..ANY third party candidate... things would be SO much > different. I don't care if you vote Nader or not. Vote for the most off the > wall candidate there is. (Anyone but Buchannan, and you're good in my > books)..but we're not going to move mountains by whining about it. Hmm... been there, done that. The year: 1980. The choice: Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan. The obvious better one of two unimpressive candidates: Jimmy Carter. My third party vote: Dallas McCord Reynolds, Socialist Workers. Elected: Ronald Reagan. Don't let this happen to you. Or your country. - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 08:57:08 -0700 From: Neile Graham Subject: Re: equation Bill Mazur asked: >Neile and my fellow Ectophiles, > >I had a brief glimpse of Kate Rusby's voice recently when Billi and I were in >Europe. She was featured on a documetary program on what I believe was the >European subsidiary of CNN. The program was called World Beat (I believe). >They >also featured another artist from the new English folk scene, Eliza Carthy (I >think that's her correct name. Any relation to Martin Carthy?). I liked what >little I heard of both women. Can you recommend a good starting point for >both of >them. Please give me some specifics. BTW, I have meant to ask this for >awhile and >am just now getting around to it. The post reminded me. Thanks in advance! For Kate Rusby either of her solo discs are good, _Hourglass_ or _Sleepless_. There doesn't seem to be much qualitative difference between them. If you like her, you might also like Niamh Parsons. Eliza Carthy (daughter of Martin Carthy and Norma Waterson and the three of them record together as Waterson:Carthy) seems to get better with every release, so I'd recommend her most recent double album, _Red Rice_. It has one more traditional disc, and one that has neo-traditional songs with contemporary influences. Wonderful! - --Neile - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Neile Graham ...... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ....... neile@sff.net Les Semaines: A Weekly Journal . http://www.sff.net/people/neile/semaines The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music ....... http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 12:55:19 -0400 From: the real dick cheney Subject: Re: Amy Fairchild fans? when we last left our heroes, Emily Perkins exclaimed: >I picked up her EP at Ectofest and like it a lot. She's one of those artists >who make me surprised at how much I like them - not as removed from >straightforward pop as what I usually go for, but for some reason she's >original enough to interest me. exactly! i felt the same way after seeing her at ectofest. there was something surprisingly compelling about her. whatever it was, though, it wasn't there the first time meredith and i saw her. or at least meredith says we saw her -- i have no recollection of the event at all. %) >Has anyone heard her other album? How does that compare to the EP? we bought both of the items she had for sale at ectofest. i ought to listen to them sometime.... woj ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 12:52:20 -0400 From: the real dick cheney Subject: Re: mbv when we last left our heroes, american damon exclaimed: >the real dick cheney wrote: >> don't forget mbv's early phase which was rather >> sweet and catchy but plain pop. it wasn't until _isn't anything_ was >> released that the genius of _loveless_ started to be glimpsed. like, say, >> ministry, mbv went through a pretty conventional phase. >what's their early phase then? assuming you mean mbv and not ministry, their sound at the time was pleasant but not ground-breaking pop music. twee is a word that comes to mind. karen mentioned their "strawberry wine" ep, but there is also the "ecstacy" ep and several other vinyl releases before they were signed to creation. assuming you mean ministry, their earliest work was more like depeche mode than anything else -- _with sympathy_ in particular. by the release of _twitch_, they were more in a skinny puppy vein, but they were still under the thumb of their record label until _the land of rape and honey_. >i can see isn't anything, and the cdsingles of that time >being profoundly influenced by j&mc, >but loveless wasn't anything at all like >anything i'd ever heard before ever. _isn't anything_ laid the foundation for _loveless_. whether or not _loveless_ will be the culmination of kevin shields' studio-noodling (looks like it will be given his lack of further progress), it did take the experiments on _isn't anything_ to extremes. so, while _loveless_ went well beyond anything the jesus & mary chain ever did, it does owe some debt of gratitude to the jesus & mary chain. i can't say that kevin shields wouldn't have come up with _loveless_ in a jesus & mary chain-less world, but there is a connection. woj n.p. shell -- (s)hell is (s)well ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 10:33:00 -0700 From: Steve VanDevender Subject: Re: Amy Fairchild fans? the real dick cheney writes: > when we last left our heroes, Emily Perkins exclaimed: > > >I picked up her EP at Ectofest and like it a lot. She's one of those artists > >who make me surprised at how much I like them - not as removed from > >straightforward pop as what I usually go for, but for some reason she's > >original enough to interest me. > > exactly! i felt the same way after seeing her at ectofest. there was > something surprisingly compelling about her. whatever it was, though, it > wasn't there the first time meredith and i saw her. or at least meredith > says we saw her -- i have no recollection of the event at all. %) Embarrassing revelation: Having previously only seen photographs of Happy, when I saw Amy Fairchild I was thinking "Is that Happy?" I thought there was at least a superficial resemblance. I did really like Amy Fairchild's set. "Counting Angels" is a very poignant song, and she has a great voice. > >Has anyone heard her other album? How does that compare to the EP? > > we bought both of the items she had for sale at ectofest. i ought to listen > to them sometime.... I now wish I had bought them too. And the Kristeen Young CD. Now I get to have an adventure in ordering obscure CDs. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 14:06:49 -0400 From: Dennis Breslin Subject: Re: Al Gore Joseph Zitt wrote: > > Hmm... been there, done that. > > The year: 1980. > The choice: Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan. > The obvious better one of two unimpressive candidates: Jimmy Carter. > My third party vote: Dallas McCord Reynolds, Socialist Workers. > Elected: Ronald Reagan. > > Don't let this happen to you. Or your country. > I presume you mean the election outcome rather than your party choice. If that is the case then, while I've always admired JZ's postings in my lurkerdom, this one elevates him to a god-like status, at least in ecto list terms. While the left can be a wee bit dogmatic at times, their goal is truly good and they're the only ones who don't claim that God is on their side. So ends my semi-annual posting to the list and as has been typical, its devoid of musical content. Oh, well, maybe next year. Dennis Breslin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 13:20:59 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Al Gore On Tue, Sep 19, 2000 at 02:06:49PM -0400, Dennis Breslin wrote: > I presume you mean the election outcome rather than your party choice. > If that is the case then, while I've always admired JZ's postings in > my lurkerdom, this one elevates him to a god-like status, at least in > ecto list terms. While the left can be a wee bit dogmatic at times, > their goal is truly good and they're the only ones who don't claim > that God is on their side. > > So ends my semi-annual posting to the list and as has been typical, > its devoid of musical content. Oh, well, maybe next year. Heh, yeah, I've always been to the left of center. Or actually, I take the reasonable, obvious, centrist position against which everyone else should be measured. As do we all :-). - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 11:07:27 -0700 From: Phil Hudson Subject: RE: Alt.AlGore.lightbulb.internet.claims.sorry Wow sorry folks, I didn't think such a trashy throwaway one-liner would have generated so much fervor. ( Al Gore inventing the internet). I do not attack peoples' personal politics or philosophies, but all politicians are really fair game as far as humor is concerned. Some, like Dan Quayle are truly priceless national treasures. Personally I think Al is one of the most honest and true of the whole bunch. Please understand, this was not Al-bashing in any serious sense of the word. ( thanks Kitty Kat, for understanding and posting to that effect). I am an equal opportunity basher, in that I think that all US polititians "look like game show hosts to me". ( I actually invented that line in 1981, but some British rocker implemented it first) As Dan Riley pointed out, Gore did say things that implied that he invented the net, but for the record, Phil was making a lame attempt at humor. Glad we straightened that out :) BTW Dan, regarding your tag line, "( dan- who has been using the internet since before it existed)" Forgive my impertinence, isn't this a similar assertion to the one that Gore made? I mean, how exactly *does* one use something before it exists? ;) Warm regards to all Phil Who worked for the company that invented the high speed modem that made the internet's existence possible even before it ( the internet, not the modem) existed, but who invented neither the modem nor the internet, either before or after the existence of either. Phil's only patented inventions to date are a piece of knotted string in E flat and a sound muffler for automobile horns. ------------------------------ Date: 19 Sep 2000 15:32:26 -0400 From: Dan Riley Subject: Re: Alt.AlGore.lightbulb.internet.claims.sorry Phil Hudson writes: > Wow sorry folks, I didn't think such a trashy throwaway one-liner would > have generated so much fervor. ( Al Gore inventing the internet). I have to apologize for overreacting--Kitty Kat was right, I should have given a fellow fuzzy blue ectophile the benefit of the doubt. I'm doubly embarrassed, since I'm often critical of people that can't take a joke. Unfortunately, I've been involved in too many discussions with people that really believe the trashy lies the RNC has been circulating about Gore, and it has been affecting my perspective. > BTW Dan, regarding your tag line, > "( dan- who has been using the internet since before it existed)" > Forgive my impertinence, isn't this a similar assertion to the one that Gore > made? In several respects, including the difficulty of precision in casual conversation. Perhaps "using the internet since before it was the Internet" would have been better? How true it is depends on when you date the inception of the Internet. I was an ARPANET tourist in the late 70's (back in the days of IMPs, TWENEX and ITS, before TCP/IP), and a regular ARPANET user starting in late 1983. While the Network Working Group used the term "Internet" at least as far back as 1970, I'd argue it wasn't really the *Internet* until there were administratively distinct IP networks interconnected. IP flag day for the ARPANET was January 1, 1983, and the Internet arguably came into existence sometime between the ARPANET/MILNET split later in 1983, and the 1986 connection of the first NSFNet backbone. Obviously part of the difficulty is that the creation of the Internet was a long process, not a single well defined event. - -- Dan Riley dsr@mail.lns.cornell.edu Wilson Lab, Cornell University "History teaches us that days like this are best spent in bed" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 13:13:10 -0700 From: Phil Hudson Subject: RE: Alt.AlGore.lightbulb.internet.claims.sorry Hey Dan, I apologize to you too, for the tag line thing; It was not intended to be a personal jab or anything. I just forgot that many Ectos don't know the history of the net as well as those of us who have been in the industry for a while. I was not casting aspersions on your obviously excellent bona fides, but simply saw a little ironic humor there, given the thread. In the immortal words of HR: " just wanted to bug ya" :) Regards Phil - -----Original Message----- From: Dan Riley [mailto:dsr@mail.lns.cornell.edu] Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 12:32 PM To: Phil Hudson Cc: 'ecto@smoe.org' Subject: Re: Alt.AlGore.lightbulb.internet.claims.sorry Phil Hudson writes: > Wow sorry folks, I didn't think such a trashy throwaway one-liner would > have generated so much fervor. ( Al Gore inventing the internet). I have to apologize for overreacting--Kitty Kat was right, I should have given a fellow fuzzy blue ectophile the benefit of the doubt. I'm doubly embarrassed, since I'm often critical of people that can't take a joke. Unfortunately, I've been involved in too many discussions with people that really believe the trashy lies the RNC has been circulating about Gore, and it has been affecting my perspective. > BTW Dan, regarding your tag line, > "( dan- who has been using the internet since before it existed)" > Forgive my impertinence, isn't this a similar assertion to the one that Gore > made? In several respects, including the difficulty of precision in casual conversation. Perhaps "using the internet since before it was the Internet" would have been better? How true it is depends on when you date the inception of the Internet. I was an ARPANET tourist in the late 70's (back in the days of IMPs, TWENEX and ITS, before TCP/IP), and a regular ARPANET user starting in late 1983. While the Network Working Group used the term "Internet" at least as far back as 1970, I'd argue it wasn't really the *Internet* until there were administratively distinct IP networks interconnected. IP flag day for the ARPANET was January 1, 1983, and the Internet arguably came into existence sometime between the ARPANET/MILNET split later in 1983, and the 1986 connection of the first NSFNet backbone. Obviously part of the difficulty is that the creation of the Internet was a long process, not a single well defined event. - -- Dan Riley dsr@mail.lns.cornell.edu Wilson Lab, Cornell University "History teaches us that days like this are best spent in bed" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:18:17 EDT From: RedWoodenBeads@aol.com Subject: Re: ecto-digest V6 #276 In a message dated 9/18/00 11:05:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time, owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org writes: << as opposed to Dan Quayle's stuff, that just proved he was an idiot. >> If Dan Quayle was an idiot, then Al Gore is something far beyond idiotic. His claims of having invented the internet were no joke. He was very serious. We all know the concept of the internet came into development as far back as the 1950's. Al Gore is the only idiot I'm seeing here. I've been meaning to take another visit to Germany. Perhaps this November would be a good time should Mr. Gore happen to win this election. Joe http://www.angelfire.com/indie/impryan "This is a risky anti-candle scheme!" ~Al Gore if he'd been there for the invention of the light bulb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:20:05 EDT From: RedWoodenBeads@aol.com Subject: Re: ecto-digest V6 #276 In a message dated 9/18/00 11:05:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time, owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org writes: << A couple of weeks ago the campaign rejected a shoddy commercial showing Gore saying that Clinton never told a lie. Problem was that the clip showed an interview from 1994, long before Clinton ever heard of Monica Lewinsky. >> Clinton has been lying since he entered the white house. Joe http://www.angelfire.com/indie/impryan "This is a risky anti-candle scheme!" ~Al Gore if he'd been there for the invention of the light bulb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:21:26 EDT From: RedWoodenBeads@aol.com Subject: Re: mbv In a message dated 9/18/00 11:05:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time, owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org writes: << what's their early phase then? >> They made several records (mostly ep's) before signing to Creation around 1988. Most of their early stuff sounds a bit like the jesus & mary chain. Joe http://www.angelfire.com/indie/impryan "This is a risky anti-candle scheme!" ~Al Gore if he'd been there for the invention of the light bulb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:27:52 EDT From: RedWoodenBeads@aol.com Subject: Re: tap into america! In a message dated 9/18/00 11:05:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time, owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org writes: << Meth, Spinal Tap is a classic! The difference between Spinal Tap and the band that Joe described is that The Tap could actually write and play some pretty interesting music. Again, this is only my subjective opinion. ;-) I am a proud owner of The Black Album and the video of Spinal Tap. It is the ultimate rockumentary! :-) If you haven't seen it yet, check it out in your local theatre. >> Hey, I just want to say that Spinal Tap is one of my all time favorite things ever. Every year a bunch of my friends and myself all gather for a ceremonial viewing of the film and have a great time, every time... that's my philosophy marty.... Joe http://www.angelfire.com/indie/impryan "This is a risky anti-candle scheme!" ~Al Gore if he'd been there for the invention of the light bulb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:05:34 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: ecto-digest V6 #276 On Tue, Sep 19, 2000 at 06:20:05PM -0400, RedWoodenBeads@aol.com wrote: > Clinton has been lying since he entered the white house. *sigh* > "This is a risky anti-candle scheme!" > ~Al Gore if he'd been there for the invention of the light bulb "A self-obsessed sewer" - - RedWoodenBeads's thought upon first seeing his mother (by precisely the same line of reasoning) - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:07:32 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: ecto-digest V6 #276 On Tue, Sep 19, 2000 at 06:18:17PM -0400, RedWoodenBeads@aol.com wrote: > If Dan Quayle was an idiot, then Al Gore is something far beyond idiotic. His > claims of having invented the internet were no joke. He was very serious. We > all know the concept of the internet came into development as far back as the > 1950's. Al Gore is the only idiot I'm seeing here. /me provides the required mirror. > I've been meaning to take another visit to Germany. Perhaps this November > would be a good time should Mr. Gore happen to win this election. /me resists the temptation to invoke Godwin's Law. - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:58:24 -0400 From: Michael Curry Subject: Nader (was Re: Al Gore) At 06:59 AM 9/19/00 -0400, Mark Miazga wrote: >> We're Ectos here... how can we be having this discussion, be >> e-mails into this discussion, and not be talking about Ralph Nader. > >I think Nadar is a smart man, and may even make a good president. >I welcome the fact that he entered the race. But, at this point, >the only thing that's keeping him in the race is a large ego. He's >got no chance of winning, and his candidacy now only gives votes to >Bush. I firmly believe a vote for Nadar is a vote for Bush. I firmly believe that a vote for Nader is a vote for Nader. :) Or perhaps, as Alexander Cockburn put it, "In the end, Gore's crowd has one basic argument: a vote for Nader is a vote for Bush. No, it's not. A vote for Nader is a vote for revitalizing the system and breaking the iron ceiling of the current one party with two heads." [You can read the entire piece that quote is taken from at http://www.commondreams.org/views/072000-104.htm ] Another amusing take comes from an episode of the always great cartoon This Modern World, by Tom Tomorrow. See it archived at http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2000/09/05/tomo/index.html Obviously there's no way Nader is going to get elected this time around, especially since the two major parties aren't going to do anything risky like letting him into the debates (they learned that lesson after getting the bejezus scared out of them by Perot), but my hope is that he can garner the 5% needed for the Green Party to get federal money for the next election. >I think it's good that third parties come in and raise issues that >otherwise wouldn't be talked about. But I'm not so sure I would >like them to raise to prominence. Much of our political stability >is due to the fact that we have a 2-party system - look at other >countries with more parties and you'll see a lot of instability >and unrest. Sure, we might have some issues with getting legislation >passed, but that would be much, much worse if a third party entered >the fray. If you think our government has a lot of red tape now, >just imagine if we had three parties. Bipartisan politics are a >challenge... tripartisan would be even more challenging. > >- Mark >(who really likes Al Gore) I think that the current money-soaked political process which produces candidates that don't seem to actually believe in anything other than getting elected (or re-elected), and therefore try way too hard not to offend the corporations that are putting up the financing for that, is more of a problem than any theoretical instability caused by a third (or fourth, or fifth) party might be. Anyway, I'll just wrap up by plugging www.nader2000.org and www.votenader.org . :) Michael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:08:29 -0400 From: dave Subject: More Gore Dan says: > There's a good chance that the Internet _would_not_exist_ in its > current form without the legislation Gore sponsored and the work he > did popularizing the idea of an *open* national (and international) > network. Does that mean he's the one responsible for all this porn and spam? Ok.. as you were.... np: The Corrs - In Blue. yes.. there's a new Corrs CD out.. how'd the rest of you miss it? ;) - -- dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 00:14:21 -0700 From: lanblind@teleport.com Subject: Re: ecto-digest V6 #274 hi all, just a short note to thank those on this wonderful list that have recently ordered my newest cd project, ORDINARY MAGIC by LAND OF THE BLIND. I appreciate the support, and I am down to the wire on finishing this 2 years of my life project. Thank you and it is coming as fast as I can get it to you, please have patience. I was awful happy to meet some more ectoheads this past week-end at a musical showdown, or hoedown in Santa Cruiz. Looking forward to recording Happy's work with these talented folks, thank you for inviting me Mr. Bill Mazur and thanks for the hospitality (a rocking party of very very talented folks held in a Redwood Grove all lite up like faireyland...tres' cool for bored SF girl) to Phil and his lady. Hey folks, there is so much talent hiding in this group, we could put out a CD and hold a festival (both east and west) more than yearly. Ahhhh, but I am an irish dreamer. Cyoakha, Land O' Blind/Azigza/Echolalia and other insane projects > PO Box 198 Mill Valley, CA 94941 (415) 789-8139 lanblind@teleport.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:30:39 -0400 From: american damon Subject: Re: Al Gore Mark Miazga wrote: > > > We're Ectos here... how can we be having this discussion, be e-mails into > > this discussion, and not be talking about Ralph Nader. > > I think Nadar is a smart man, and may even make a good president. I welcome the > fact that he entered the race. But, at this point, the only thing that's keeping > him in the race is a large ego. He's got no chance of winning, and his candidacy > now only gives votes to Bush. I firmly believe a vote for Nadar is a vote for > Bush. bush needs all the help he can get. rats! me, tho, i don't support the green party so much as the reform party. the heglin reform party. > > Sure, eventually the 3rd parties will be corrupt, and we'll do it > > again. But it's time that in a democracy, we have more than two (and > > arguably, with as much moderatism in the parties, one) parties to choose > > from. > > I think it's good that third parties come in and raise issues that otherwise > wouldn't be talked about. But I'm not so sure I would like them to raise to > prominence. Much of our political stability is due to the fact that we have a > 2-party system - look at other countries with more parties and you'll see a lot > of instability and unrest. Sure, we might have some issues with getting > legislation passed, but that would be much, much worse if a third party entered > the fray. If you think our government has a lot of red tape now, just imagine if > we had three parties. Bipartisan politics are a challenge... tripartisan would > be even more challenging. > me, i think it would work the opposite- a lot less gridlock, because partisanship would have to be sacrifiiced. also, less odious people would theoretically be elected if we had a better choice, and there would be in theory more representation to our \democracy. i voted fro perot the first time specifically because i wanted a viable 3rd party in the u.s. and now, almost on topic, vincent d'inofrio is runing as a reform party candidate tho the smithereens aren't exactly ecto. - -- People say men are genetically engineered to prefer polygamy, but you don't see that many women upset enough when their husbands leave them to shoot everybody in sight. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:38:51 -0400 From: american damon Subject: Re: mbv the real dick cheney wrote: > > when we last left our heroes, american damon exclaimed: > > >the real dick cheney wrote: > > >> don't forget mbv's early phase which was rather > >> sweet and catchy but plain pop. it wasn't until _isn't anything_ was > >> released that the genius of _loveless_ started to be glimpsed. like, say, > >> ministry, mbv went through a pretty conventional phase. > > >what's their early phase then? > > assuming you mean mbv and not ministry, their sound at the time was > pleasant but not ground-breaking pop music. twee is a word that comes to > mind. karen mentioned their "strawberry wine" ep, but there is also the > "ecstacy" ep and several other vinyl releases before they were signed to > creation. weird. so they regressed to punk/grunge by the time of the cds i have. their early stuff is apparently impossible to find outside of mp3s. > assuming you mean ministry, their earliest work was more like depeche mode > than anything else -- _with sympathy_ in particular. by the release of > _twitch_, they were more in a skinny puppy vein, but they were still under > the thumb of their record label until _the land of rape and honey_. i have the early ministry stuff. i like it a lot. i actually don't like any loand of and post ministry. at all. tho i do like industrial and heavy industrial like nin. a lot. ministry just doesn't do anything for me, and i think it's funny whatsisname thinks his early dacne pop stuff was shit. > >i can see isn't anything, and the cdsingles of that time > >being profoundly influenced by j&mc, > >but loveless wasn't anything at all like > >anything i'd ever heard before ever. > > _isn't anything_ laid the foundation for _loveless_. whether or not > _loveless_ will be the culmination of kevin shields' studio-noodling (looks > like it will be given his lack of further progress), it did take the > experiments on _isn't anything_ to extremes. so, while _loveless_ went well > beyond anything the jesus & mary chain ever did, it does owe some debt of > gratitude to the jesus & mary chain. i can't say that kevin shields > wouldn't have come up with _loveless_ in a jesus & mary chain-less world, > but there is a connection. i see the connection the same as with ministry, to take your comparison- would land of rape and honey exist without depeche or whoever influenced early ministry? obecto, sort of, i am apparently one of the few who regard the first two slowdive albums as highly as loveless. very much in the same vein stylistically, but done with strings instead of guitars [to oversimplify]. i'd call them ecto, and then mojave 3 is quite good, if much much toned down. - -- People say men are genetically engineered to prefer polygamy, but you don't see that many women upset enough when their husbands leave them to shoot everybody in sight. ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V6 #277 **************************