From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V6 #219 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Saturday, July 29 2000 Volume 06 : Number 219 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Today's your birthday, friends... [Mike Matthews ] Poe Haunted? [Drew Harrington ] Re: boycott [dave ] Terra Incognita [terra@ulster.net] Re: boycott [Joseph Zitt ] Re: boycott [Neile Graham ] Re: boycott [Ted ] Re: boycott [Ted ] Re: boycott [Neile Graham ] Courtney Loves...and Steals ["Cerquone, Suzanne" ] Re: um just some ramblings. and a question about wally pleasant [I Am Not] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 03:00:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike Matthews Subject: Today's your birthday, friends... i*i*i*i*i*i i*i*i*i*i*i *************** *****HAPPY********* **************BIRTHDAY********* *************************************************** *************************************************************************** *************************** woj (woj@smoe.org) **************************** ********************** John Relph (no Email address) ********************** ****************** Bob Kollmeyer (rjk1@siesta.wustl.edu) ****************** *************************************************************************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- woj Sun July 28 1968 children at play John Relph Sat July 28 1962 Leo Bob Kollmeyer Wed July 28 1971 Leo Steve Lusky Tue July 29 1952 Bike! Kate Bush Wed July 30 1958 God Chuck Smith Wed July 30 1958 Reboot Yves Denneulin Fri July 30 1971 Lion-Heart Joel Kenyon Wed July 31 1963 Leo Eli Brandt August 05 Leo Martin Bridges Sat August 08 1970 BigGuy Happy Rhodes Mon August 09 1965 HolyGhost Michael Stevens Sat August 12 1967 For Sale or Lease Martin Dougiamas Wed August 20 1969 Positive Tori Amos Thu August 22 1963 Leo Sam Warren Tue August 22 1961 Leo Henk Van Wulpen Sat August 22 1970 Leo Kerry White Wed August 22 1951 Exact Leo/Virgo Don Gibson Wed August 26 1959 Virgo - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 00:15:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Drew Harrington Subject: Poe Haunted? csg wrote: > Currently in rotation: > Poe - Haunted Can anyone tell me anything about this? It doesn't appear to be "out". Drew __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 06:31:46 -0400 From: dave Subject: Re: boycott Jeff wrote: > Frankly, all of the talk of digital distribution worries me. I *want* to > go out and buy CDs. I don't want crappy MP3s being my only option. I > don't want music that can expire. I don't want a subscription service I > need to pay for in order to be able to hear the same music over and > over. I *like* physical cover art and liner notes I can pore over in much > the way I'd rather read a hardbound book than an e-book. And as I've said > before, I want to support artists. I'd rather do it for indie artists and > I'd rather see artists make a higher percentage and not get screwed by the > majors. But I'm not going to become a vigilante. > > What's stupid about this to me (other than the blatant hyprocrisy) is that > none of this is new -- it's just that now we've got a bunch of folks > whining over the restraining order against Napster. If you'd have shown > me this boycott a year or two ago, I would have taken it far more > seriously. Jeff makes some good points. I think one of the main problems many of us have with the Napster idea is that we see the potential of losing some of our music buying options, both in the selection of artists to choose from, and the CD medium itself. I keep seeing proponents of the Napster ilk using the argument that the RIAA is evil and therefore downloading copyrighted material is okay. Courtney Love for one seems to be railing at the recording industry much more than she is extolling the virtues of Napster. I don't think anyone disputes the problems with the RIAA, we'd all like to see the artists get a better deal, but having your product given away for free doesn't sound like an alternative to me. Now here's an article anyone interested in this subject should read. It has comments on the subject from artists such as Aimee Mann, Kristin Hersh and Jonatha Brooke. You may find them a little more credible than Miss Love. http://www.salon.com./ent/feature/2000/03/24/napster_artists/index.html - -- +-----------------------------------------------+ + dave + + Sideshow Bob's House of Wax and Waffles + + Female vocalists, Christian, and Polish music + + http://www.magpage.com/~sspan/ + +-----------------------------------------------+ + irc.dal.net #tori #ecto + +-----------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 09:01:38 +0000 From: terra@ulster.net Subject: Terra Incognita I'm in the process of posting some photos of Happy on the site, for those interested... Sharon Terra Incognita http://www.geocities.com/runly/terra.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 11:17:56 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: boycott For those of you hungering for MP3s, check out the (legal and authorised) http://www.tapster.com Funniest thing I've seen all week (with the possible exception of N'Sync's stage band dropping in a Rush quote verbatim in the closing music of last night's HBO special, perhaps to see if anyone would notice...). - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 10:15:21 -0700 From: Neile Graham Subject: Re: boycott dave wrote: >Now here's an article anyone interested in this subject should read. It >has comments on the subject from artists such as Aimee Mann, Kristin >Hersh and Jonatha Brooke. You may find them a little more credible than >Miss Love. > >http://www.salon.com./ent/feature/2000/03/24/napster_artists/index.html That's a great article, dave--thanks for pointing it out! - --Neile - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Neile Graham ...... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ....... neile@sff.net Les Semaines: A Weekly Journal . http://www.sff.net/people/neile/semaines The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music ....... http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 13:54:29 -0400 From: Ted Subject: Re: boycott Here's another article that you might find useful: http://www.negativland.com/albini.html Neile Graham wrote: > > > > >http://www.salon.com./ent/feature/2000/03/24/napster_artists/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 15:11:32 -0400 From: Ted Subject: Re: boycott I seriously wasn't arguing, just adding an article to augment the previous one. As I said I realize other people have their viewpoints, and I respect their right to that viewpoint. 2 more stories that might be of interest to my opposition in the previous napster debate , here's what David Coursey Said Yesterday: http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/comment/0,5859,2608186,00.html And here is his backpedaling song and dance today: http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/comment/0,5859,2608703,00.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 13:41:01 -0700 From: Neile Graham Subject: Re: boycott I've read that Albini article several times--I have some musician acquaintances on a local bulletin board. Basically, it's where Courtney Love got a lot of her comments from on her article that was in Salon a while back. It's hard to argue about the large labels, and hard to feel much sympathy when they're losing money from something like Napster. One of my musician acquaintances, the lead singer for Harvey Danger, y'know "Flagpole Sitta", knowing that article, managed to make a decent deal with a big label (that didn't stop them from getting dropped during a merger, though I gather they have a new contract now). Anyway, this is all a side issue. The big thing that it doesn't take into account is the independent musicians and artists on smaller labels--the ones that actually most of us on ecto spend most of our money on. The kind of people like Kristin Hersh and Jennifer Kimball who commented in that Salon article. And wow, I'm tired of discussing this. How about that Happy Rhodes, eh? I'm typing out an old 1993 article about her right now. Well, not right now. But I've been doing it today. - --Neile At 1:52 PM -0400 7/28/00, Ted wrote: >Here's another article that you might find useful: > >http://www.negativland.com/albini.html > >Neile Graham wrote: > >> >> > >> >http://www.salon.com./ent/feature/2000/03/24/napster_artists/index.html - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Neile Graham ...... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ....... neile@sff.net Les Semaines: A Weekly Journal . http://www.sff.net/people/neile/semaines The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music ....... http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 13:42:52 -0700 From: "Cerquone, Suzanne" Subject: Courtney Loves...and Steals Chuck wrote: >>a friend forwarded this link to me today. every fan of music in the world should read this article, especially the friends and foes of napster. i'm astounded that courtney love (whom i've always considered a shallow and superficial non-talent) wrote so eloquently on such an important subject. yes it's a long article but it's well worth the read..<< She's not as eloquent as she thinks she is. She plagiarized much of that speech from someone else. A year or so ago an indie musician made pratically the same speech - wish I could remember his name, but since Love's salon.com speech, it's been widely noted as not hers. Frankly, and IMHO, the speech meanders so much - to the point of making it worthless. And my biggest question is this: if Courtney (or whomever) is bitching about the record deal they didn't make any money off of, why did she sign it in the first place? If she can "do the math" now, why didn't she do the math then? Does she know the amount of advertising, retail co-op and radio promotion money went into each CD release? Did she tally up all the times the label took her out to expensive restaurants, limo'd her around town or even chartered a jet for her - and didn't put those large monies into her recoupable costs to keep her happy with her deal overall? She originally signed the deal because she got a pretty damn good advance, and she needed the dough. She also had the security of knowing her CD got into the majority of record stores on this planet. Those are the two main advantages of signing to an established label, and so far, despite technology and the option of self-promotion/distribution, these advantages are still enticing enough for artists to sign with them. I'm sorry, I work for a label and I feel I sometimes have to justify what we do. We're not perfect. We make a lot of money off of certain artists. Others, we lose big, despite our hard efforts. I just get kind of sick of the public always bashing us. Yes, you're all right - many of the old structures need to go, so musicians can make more money. That's already happening (see Jimmy Page and The Black Crowes' deal with Emusic.com). I'm all for that. But don't discredit the music business as a whole. Saying a particular label or the industry overall is "evil" discredits all those who work for it. Me, I'm a website manager. I work really hard to provide as much info about our artists to our consumers. I have limited resources, as most of you do in your jobs. I don't make the deals. Only a small percent of the music business' employees do. It's like bashing the whole banking industry because of those annoying ATM fees. Everyone I work with is here because they love music. Most of you hopefully work in an industry because you love it, too. How would it feel if the public, however indirectly, constantly flogged you for your efforts? I know I sound like a whiner, but I'm just trying to offer up some new perspective. ~ Suzanne http://www.universalclassics.com/usa http://www.deccabroadway.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 17:31:54 EDT From: RocketsTail@aol.com Subject: Tara Maclean Just in case anyone is interested, Tara Maclean is going to be performing on the CONAN O BRIEN show tonight! :-) ~Eric "'Well,' he said, 'I could come right through your door And I don't ever want to know about the new people in your life Let me make one thing in all your dreams real clear' Now lets talk about Faith... " ~Stevie Nicks ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 15:55:12 -0700 From: phil@tiaranetworks.com Subject: The properties of fire. I found the following piece at gnutella.com - thought I would share it. The premise is, of course, quite flawed, as the fire in question was not Ian's intellectual property, but was likely pirated from some guy named Oook, who lived sometime/somewhere in the Olduvai Gorge. However, it makes for a quick and humorous read, and illustrates some of the complex absurdities and fuzzy logic inherent in the whole Napster fiasco. Regards Phil PS: Hope this hasn't been posted before; apologies if so. I was in the pub last night, and a guy asked me for a light for his cigarette. I suddenly realised that there was a demand here and money to be made, and so I agreed to light his cigarette for 10 pence, but I didn't actually give him a light, I sold him a license to burn his cigarette. My fire-license restricted him from giving the light to anybody else, after all, that fire was my property. He was drunk, and dismissing me as a loony, but accepted my fire (and by implication the licence which governed its use) anyway. Of course in a matter of minutes I noticed a friend of his asking him for a light and to my outrage he gave his cigarette to his friend and pirated my fire! I was furious, I started to make my way over to that side of the bar but to my added horror his friend then started to light other people's cigarettes left, right, and centre! Before long that whole side of the bar was enjoying MY fire without paying me anything. Enraged I went from person to person grabbing their cigarettes from their hands, throwing them to the ground, and stamping on them. Strangely, the door staff exhibited no respect for my property rights as they threw me out the door. - --Ian Clarke ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:00:54 EDT From: ToriCure@aol.com Subject: Re: Courtney Loves...and Steals Hi to Suzanne and everyone, I just wanted to say my peace about the Courtney Love article. For one thing, Courtney is extremely shrewd and she knows that her name is large enough now and she doesn't have to deal with the major label bullshit anymore. That's great for her. I also hope she realizes that once again for the millionth time she has made herself out to be a hopeless contradiction because all she's ever wanted all along is the "celebrity" status. If she really cared so much about her music career.. she would not have spent three to four years between the making of her most recent album with her thumb up her ass receiving payments for movie roles. She's intelligent and she's out for what she can get. Of course she is willing to receive "tips" from her fans... she can afford to accept whatever they want to pay her, PLUS however many millions she makes for any future acting jobs. For the rest of us struggling, unknown independent artists... we don't have it nearly quite as well. The allure of a major label recording contract is very tempting. When I stop and think about signing like a several million dollar advance... I think, damn, I would be in the money. But regardless of whether Courtney wrote that article herself, the point is...the costs that go into promotion, advertising, and touring are deducted from the artist's pay. It's pathetic how miniscule the amount of artists played on nationally funded radio stations are in this day and age. There is a plethora of talent out there... real people with real songs who are trying to make an honest living at what they love to do. The music industry is completely wrapped up in what will get them the next big single or what band will sell the next 4 million or plus records. They don't give a shit about nurturing or having a long lasting, working relationship with the artist. Somewhere along the way, people have lost sight about the main purpose of the major record labels. Like the salon article said, they are basically the distributors of the music. The real relationship is between the artist and his or her fan base. The record label execs don't care if they rip off the artist and the fans... as long as they are the ones who come out with the most profit. With such narrow numbers of artists allowed on each major label roster... it's no wonder that more and more artists are looking to go the independent route. There's no reason musicians should stop working at what they believe in because an A & R man "doesn't see a hit." I myself hope to be offered a recording contract with an independent label sometime in the near future and I want to be granted creative control over my work. I don't want to be told what songs can and cannot be put on the record. I don't want to be put on heavy rotation on the horrific music channels so people get sick of hearing and looking at me. I do want to be successful... but success doesn't have to be measured in a single hit song or album. Success is something that progresses over time. I would rather have a loyal fan base which builds over a series of years than just become huge over night and be just another flash in the pan. Maybe I'm just too damn idealistic... but I know there are others out there who feel the same way. Thanks for listening. - Mark Freifeld ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:01:19 -0400 From: "iflin@sirius.com" Subject: um just some ramblings. and a question about wally pleasant ummm... okay i ignored the NAPSTER thread...and still will. THE EELS are great. "E" the guy who pretty much is THE EELS, put out two solo albums, the first one A MAN CALLED E is really great. the second one sucked. He toured with TORI AMOS way back when opening up for her during her LITTLE EARTHQUAKES tour, believe it or not, way back when she was a nobody singing to a crowd of 500 in a small bar. i was lucky enough to see her back then, and E performed solo with a piano, and was great... i had thought LISA GERMANO had retired from music? glad to hear that she is touring and with THE EELS and playing with them. maybe we'll see her do a couple of solo shows, and maybe put out her own album? that'll be nice. got the ANI DIFRANCO ep the other day. haven't had a chance to listen to it, but don't think i saw it come up here on ecto. i noticed it is listed as RIGHTEOUS BABE record #20, and TO THE TEETH is listed as #17. what came in between the two records? did i miss a significant ANI release? i know one of them is the WOODY GUTHRIE tribute CD, but the other? MARK KOZELEK released a solo 7 songs album/ep (a little too long to be an ep, a little too short to be an album) that is faboo. the guy behind RED HOUSE PAINTERS, he's been releasing little bits and pieces of his work since his last brillinant long play SONGS FOR A BLUE GUITAR. apparently his last work OLD RAMON which was suppose to be released through one of the UNIVERSAL labels that got swallowed up during the merger, is not going to surface anytime soon. they pulled an AIMEE MANN on him, and refused to release it, but won't let him have it back, and he doesn't have the money to buy it back (okay, i'm guessing all this, but i figure it makes the most sense). before this CD, the RED HOUSE PAINTERS/MARK KOZELEK did a couple of songs on the SHANTI PROJECT (a brilliant benefit CD for an AIDS organization here in SAN FRANCISCO), as well as a organize and contribute three songs for the JOHN DENVER tribute album. well worth tracking down (see www.badmanrecordingco.com for more info). got a slew of other music (haven't bought CD's in months, been hiding out rebuilding my wardrobe which sadly lacked). most of it twee indie stuff that probably won't interest that many of you. highly recommended though of the stacks of CD's: TREMBLING BLUE STARS-broken by whispers. former FIELD MICE and NORTHERN PICTURE LIBRARY. very twee, very indie. think fleshed out BELLE AND SEBASTIAN with female singer. nice. very melancholy. SHOESTRINGS-same as above. came out a few years ago, but brilliantly twee and fragile. falling in love can be so great. SAINT ETIENNE-sound of water: more mellow, almost atmospheric like AIR. not as pop/catchy, but quite nice. TAHITI 80-puzzle:great album, very FOUNTAINS OF WAYNE. which is no surprise as members played on this album STARS: i forget the title of this small ep, but it's brilliant! has a fantastic cover of THE SMITHS - THIS CHARMING MAN. think 80's synthpop blended with contemporary BRITPOP. brilliance. i look forward to their full length in AUGUST. i'll try to post more about this later. that's about it. oh yeah, this is twice since i have been on this list that WALLY PLEASANT has been brought up. can anyone tell me how to get his stuff? i asked last time someone brought him up, and i got no response. i only have his first two ones (on cassette no less), and i would love to track down more by him. thanks irvin - ------------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been posted from Mail2Web http://www.mail2web.com/ Web Hosting for $9.95 per month! Visit: http://www.yourhosting.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 19:50:54 -0400 From: cjmacs Subject: ectofest 2000 hi all! o.k here's the official line-up as of this moment for ectofest 2000: amy fairchild anne o'meara heaton jessica weiser sloan wainwright kristeen young merrie amsterberg susan mckeown and.... happy rhodes! in answer to the many questions we've been getting: yes, we will be selling t-shirts (x-large only) and caps (dark purple this year with lavender print). yes, we will have a food vendor (emerald city cafe will be providing water, soda, iced tea, salads and wrap sandwiches). remember though: picnicking is fine too! yes, we will be providing shuttle service between the train station in brewster and the festival site. and yes, there will be an after-fest party, but this year it will be at chuck-and-joe's house (in our backyard). as far as changes go: the ticket price is $20 this year (maybe we can actually make some money for the charities this time!) tickets will be available for sale online shortly. either meredith or i will post here as soon as that part of the site is up and running. the website should be updated in the next day or two, but everything on there pertaining to directions, places to stay, etc... is still pertinent. we've scaled down a bit as far as t-shirts and caps go. if you wish to reserve a shirt or cap please drop me a line asap. the train times will be posted on the site shortly, so if anyone needs a ride to the show from brewster just fire off a note to me. i think that's all for the moment. once again, my apologies for being so late with this but there sure were a lot of unforeseen obstacles this year (my job being one of them ;-) however, it looks as if this year's show may even top last year's! at any rate, the artists' are all pumped for it, and i wouldn't be surprised to hear some really interesting collaborations during the day! hope to see you all there! chuck www.ectofest.org ectofest 2000 9.2.00 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 18:04:08 -0700 From: I Am Not I Subject: Re: um just some ramblings. and a question about wally pleasant Irvin asked: > that's about it. oh yeah, this is twice since i have been on this list that WALLY PLEASANT has been brought up. can anyone tell me how to get his stuff? i asked last time someone brought him up, and i got no response. i only have his first two ones (on cassette no less), and i would love to track down more by him. thanks Go to: http://www.topcities.com/Music/pleasant/ Daniel - -- Rule #1: If I'm not having fun, I'm leaving. Rule #2: If I can't leave, I'll have fun. ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V6 #219 **************************