From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V6 #196 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Monday, July 10 2000 Volume 06 : Number 196 Today's Subjects: ----------------- house concerts/recording tips [neal copperman ] Recent changes to the Ectophiles' Guide ["The Ectophiles' Guide" ] Books [rich.rapp@effem.com] Re: Spamster Spasms [jason and jill ] Re: tongue-somewhat-in-cheek ["Marcel Rijs" ] gypsy soul? [Leon van Stuivenberg ] Re: Spamster Spasms [Steve VanDevender ] Re: Spamster Spasms [three damons ] Re: gypsy soul? [Jay Behel ] Re: Spamster Spasms [Neile Graham ] bettie serveert and holly cole questions ["iflin@sirius.com" ] Re: Spamster Spasms [Ted ] New Holly Cole/Jann Arden [jjhanson@att.net] Re: Spamster Spasms [three damons ] Re: Another potential label for Happy? ["phclark" ] Re: Spamster Spasms [Steve VanDevender ] Re: Spamster Spasms [three damons ] Re: Another potential label for Happy? [Jeffrey Burka ] Re: Another potential label for Happy? ["phclark" ] Re: Spamster Spasms [Ted ] roy roy roy [johann johann ] amy denio news [johann johann ] Fwd: more Emily Bezar shows... [Michael Curry ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 00:02:32 -0600 From: neal copperman Subject: house concerts/recording tips On Friday I joined the ranks of ectophiles hosting house concerts, with my first show featuring Stephanie Hewett (from Kansas) and Anna Wolfe (from here in Albquerque). The show was put together based on a request sent out to ecto at large. Anyway, I had a blast, and I think so did both the performers and the audience. My place is pretty small (20 people max), and it was mostly full. I've seen Anna maybe 8 times, either solo or with a band, and thought this was her most powerful set yet (though perhaps I am biased). She plays an interesting hybrid that is routed in 60's folk and rock, but is full of her own personality. She talks like Victoria Williams sings, but can sound anywhere from Janis Joplin to Joan Baez (and all sorts of places in between) when singing. I don't want to belabor the 60's references, cause her songs don't sound dated. Those were just some of the immediate comparisons that sprang to mind. She tends to write natural/spiritual kinds of songs, though she has a great one about aliens (A Love Beyond This World) and other topics. (See www.annawolfe.com for more info and sound samples) I thought Stephanie's set was strong too, though her powerhouse presentation sometimes overwhelmed the melodic aspects of the songs (which is much clearer on her demo cd). There were some real drop dead moments though, particularly the a cappela song to her grandmother (accompanied by rhythmic stomping... glad I have hardwood floors), a strong Robert Johnson cover, and her signature tune (I'm guessing on that one) Jesus, The Devil and Me. I'm certainly looking forward to her CD being completed. I hesitate to point you to www.stephaniehewett.com, as it is currently being plagued by competing pop-up windows due to conflicts with ex-management. But I think you can manage to get some sound samples from it, if you try really hard. I was kind of flustered introducing people and chatting with everyone, so I didn't get around to recording the show :( Something I strongly regretted later. Since I'm going to do more of these, I thought maybe someone could suggest me to some moderate priced recording equipment to get it all down. I'm still using my old Aiwa with the clip-on stereo mic from the old Inner Change tapes. At a bare minimum, I should get a decent mic for use in places where I don't have to hide it. But I'd also be willing to get a better recorder too (probably DAT), and a less obvious mic. Any suggestions? I think I had this discussion last year, but the technology must have changed since then. Next concert is Wednesday! Marlee MacLeod (and band!), down from Minneapolis. neal mp: Whites Off Earth Now - Cowboy Junkies (Getting in the mood for doing their ectoguid pages. Any comments people want to add?) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 04:17:31 -0700 From: "The Ectophiles' Guide" Subject: Recent changes to the Ectophiles' Guide Latest changes to the Ectophiles' Guide 09 July 2000 New Guide entries added for: * The 6ths * Bobo In White Wooden Houses * Lisa Kane * The Magnetic Fields * Patti Smith Changes made to the entries for: * Pooka (additional album) * The Sundays (additional comments) * Waterson:Carthy (new album) - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- You are receiving this email because you have asked to be notified of updates to the Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music at http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/. If you are no longer interested in receiving these notifications, please unsubscribe yourself using the form at http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/guide.cgi?newsubscribe&action=unsubscribe ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 07:06:30 -0700 From: "Michael R. Colford" Subject: Re: Jann Arden's new cd RocketsTail@aol.com wrote: > > Has anyone here heard Jann Arden's new album "Blood Red Cherry"? Eric obviously missed my post on Saturday about this very subject! In case others did too (the subject heading was Holly Cole's new album, but I also talked about new albums by Jann, Luba and Mae Moore) I will repost my comments about Jann's new album here. By the way Eric, "Another Human Being" is my favorite song on the new album. Brilliant lyrics and a great melody. "Jann Arden's 4th album, Blood Red Cherry continues her low-key, mid-tempo pop/rock/balladeering style, but on this album, Jann adds some sassy brashness and irony to the mix on tracks like "Best Dress" and "I Only Wanted Sex." Jann's one of those artists who can sound totally mainstream one minute, but the next minute you realize there's a lot more going on in terms of melody, lyrics and song structure. Blood Red Cherry is a fine continuation in this talented musician's career." Michael C. http://www.chlotrudis.org n.p. Music from the Films of Hal Hartley n.r. The Secret History by Mary Gentle I've heard > three or four songs from it and they are just amazing! I love her voice...all > three of her albums stay in my cd player almost constantly. One of the songs > "Another human being" really struck a chord with me. I haven't heard a > release date for this album in the US yet...but it's out in Canada, I'm dying > to get it!!! Okay I just wanted to post something hehe. -Eric > > "Keep that fury deep inside you > And wish it to end > And when your friends start asking you why > You just say nothing" > ~Stevie Nicks - -- Michael Colford, Head of Technical Services Reading Public Library, Reading Massachusetts colford@noblenet.org North of Boston Library Exchange ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 07:57:55 -0400 From: rich.rapp@effem.com Subject: Books Previously said: >Call me a luddite if you will, but I like books the way they are. I like >browsing through bookstore shelves, I like reading the blurbs on the back, >I like the feeling of turnin the last page and closing the book when I >finish. I just don't think books are something that need to be >"improved" by technology. That old original Star Trek episode with Kirk on trial and his lawyer's comments about the beauty and value of real books seems to make more and more sense every day now. Hats off to the writer who saw this one coming. Nothing like the fuzzy feeling of reading a book, not a computer screen or print out. Rich R. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 09:09:17 -0400 (EDT) From: jason and jill Subject: Re: Spamster Spasms > blood on parchment?). My point all along is that the internet poses > challenge and opportunity that may tax your creativity. Deal with it. > Scott Uhhh, wasn't his creativity taxed writing the f*cking thing? Personally, I'd rather writers expend their creativity creating, rather than in attempting to discover new ways to market their creations around freeloading l00sers. Jason ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 16:18:10 +0200 From: "Marcel Rijs" Subject: Re: tongue-somewhat-in-cheek Hi all, Kay S Cleaves wrote: > Here's a thought. For Ecto's anniversary, could we not start our own > independent record label? What better tribute to Happy than to produce > her next album ourselves? Not just a bootleg, but *the real thing*. The > collective talents of the ectophiles as displayed in the ectopia > collection, the ectofest of last summer, and our own collective obsession > about music and the arts in general makes it seem a > not-entirely-unreasonable idea for us to consider. I think the idea is very cool. I was already planning out in my head the press part of this: Announcing the first ever Internet record company, releasing 'singles' from albums as free MP3's, and having the wonderful tool of the international ecto crowd. We've all done our share of HappyVangelizing in the past (heck, I even gave HR tape compilations to various artists a few years ago!) so the promotional stuff might work out fine. It's the actual CD's that will prove to be difficult. I have no idea what making a run of a few thousand CD's costs but I'm not sure that we will be able to get that kind of money together. Still, it's nice to consider. Even if the Ecto Anniversary Tribute CD is our first release on the label! :-) Kind and hopeful regards, Marcel Rijs afd. Communicatie marcel.rijs@kb.nl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 20:32:19 +0200 From: Leon van Stuivenberg Subject: gypsy soul? Hi, This duo seems not to have been mentioned here before (argh, the ecto archives _really_ need a search function; i just finished mirroring the darn thing to do a simple grep), maybe because they're pretty poppy and perhaps near mainstream, but nevertheless: http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/41/gypsy_soul.html snippet: "Their lush, sensual music has been likened to Sarah McLachlan, Loreena McKennitt, hawn Colvin, Bonnie Raittand The Eurythmics". They have 4 albums already. Worth checking out! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 11:43:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve VanDevender Subject: Re: Spamster Spasms jason and jill writes: > > blood on parchment?). My point all along is that the internet poses > > challenge and opportunity that may tax your creativity. Deal with it. > > Scott > > Uhhh, wasn't his creativity taxed writing the f*cking thing? > Personally, I'd rather writers expend their creativity creating, rather > than in attempting to discover new ways to market their creations around > freeloading l00sers. It's not like that problem is really all that new. How many times have you borrowed a book from someone or a library and read it without giving the author his or her one literal dime of royalties? Perhaps we should make it illegal to lend books privately and require libraries to charge royalty fees for book loans to be paid back to publishers (who, of course, will give only a fraction to the authors themselves). Frankly, I'm very tired of the sweeping and often insulting generalizations that some people are tending to make in these arguments. The issues are a lot more complex than the oversimplified and inaccurate "Napster is theft", and are not going to be meaningfully solved by promoting such extreme attitudes and mischaracterizations. In a historical context, many of the attitudes about intellectual property that some people are claiming as so vital to the ongoing support of creativity are actually very recent inventions. Most art, music, and literature from before 1900 or so were produced with very different and frequently less restrictive attitudes towards intellectual property. The main difference is that when attitudes towards copying were more liberal, the cost of copying was much higher; now that more and more art items are less tied to physical objects, the cost of copying is asymptotically approaching zero. I can imagine that a lot of monasteries were very unhappy about the invention of the printing press, which put them out of the business of copying books, and many probably gave dire warnings about the death of literature due to inexpensive and possibly even unauthorized copying. Yet the printing press, by making book publishing cheaper and easier, led to a vast increase in the amount of literature available to everyone. On the other hand, I don't use Napster. I still buy CDs and paper books. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 15:01:19 -0400 From: three damons Subject: Re: Spamster Spasms Steve VanDevender wrote: > > jason and jill writes: > > > blood on parchment?). My point all along is that the internet poses > > > challenge and opportunity that may tax your creativity. Deal with it. > > > Scott > > > > Uhhh, wasn't his creativity taxed writing the f*cking thing? > > Personally, I'd rather writers expend their creativity creating, rather > > than in attempting to discover new ways to market their creations around > > freeloading l00sers. > > It's not like that problem is really all that new. How many times have > you borrowed a book from someone or a library and read it without giving > the author his or her one literal dime of royalties? Perhaps we should > make it illegal to lend books privately and require libraries to charge > royalty fees for book loans to be paid back to publishers (who, of > course, will give only a fraction to the authors themselves). libraries don't count. do you know how much they have to pay for books? it's like rental fees versus priced for sale for videos. > Frankly, I'm very tired of the sweeping and often insulting > generalizations that some people are tending to make in these arguments. yay! > The issues are a lot more complex than the oversimplified and inaccurate > "Napster is theft", and are not going to be meaningfully solved by > promoting such extreme attitudes and mischaracterizations. now you're being silly. napster IS theft. it clearly is copyrite infrignement. the only question is whether it's justifiable theft. > In a historical context, many of the attitudes about intellectual > property that some people are claiming as so vital to the ongoing > support of creativity are actually very recent inventions. Most art, > music, and literature from before 1900 or so were produced with very > different and frequently less restrictive attitudes towards intellectual > property. and hence wound up being owned by a select few, with artists suffering at their whim. The main difference is that when attitudes towards copying > were more liberal, the cost of copying was much higher; now that more > and more art items are less tied to physical objects, the cost of > copying is asymptotically approaching zero. I can imagine that a lot of > monasteries were very unhappy about the invention of the printing press, > which put them out of the business of copying books, and many probably > gave dire warnings about the death of literature due to inexpensive and > possibly even unauthorized copying. nah, i'm sure they just increased tithes. Yet the printing press, by making > book publishing cheaper and easier, led to a vast increase in the amount > of literature available to everyone. as someone else pointed out, the ease of bootlegging has led tot he collapse of the legitimate asian music market. > On the other hand, I don't use Napster. I still buy CDs and paper books. - -- What political correctness is: Make disparaging remarks about minorites of New York: get suspended for two weeks. Admit to covering up two murders that happened right in front of you: no supsension. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1970 00:00:00 -0500 (EST) From: Jay Behel Subject: Re: gypsy soul? I had no idea that they were so prolific. I have one of their discs (can't remeber the title). Good stuff. To add 2 more comparisons to the pot: Maura O'Connell and Grey Eye Glances. Jay On Mon, 10 Jul 2000 20:32:19 +0200 Leon van Stuivenberg wrote: >Hi, > >This duo seems not to have been mentioned here before (argh, the ecto >archives _really_ need a search function; i just finished mirroring the >darn thing to do a simple grep), maybe because they're pretty poppy and >perhaps near mainstream, but nevertheless: > >http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/41/gypsy_soul.html > >snippet: "Their lush, sensual music has been likened to Sarah McLachlan, >Loreena McKennitt, hawn Colvin, Bonnie Raittand The Eurythmics". > >They have 4 albums already. Worth checking out! > > Jay M. Behel, Ph.D. \"When I dare to be powerful-to use my strength in the service of my vision, then it begins to matter less and less whether I am afraid.\" Audre Lorde ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:23:54 -0700 From: Neile Graham Subject: Re: Spamster Spasms At 11:43 AM -0700 7/10/00, Steve VanDevender wrote: >It's not like that problem is really all that new. How many times have >you borrowed a book from someone or a library and read it without giving >the author his or her one literal dime of royalties? Perhaps we should >make it illegal to lend books privately and require libraries to charge >royalty fees for book loans to be paid back to publishers (who, of >course, will give only a fraction to the authors themselves). Just FYI, Canada and many European countries to have a system whereby the government compensates authors for the use of library copies of their work. In most cases the funds go directly to the authors. I wonder if all this will bring back the system of patronage whereby the rich (corporations and individuals) are necessary to support artistic production since artists in the New Bright Age artists won't be able to get any money from the work they produce? While I'd love to have someone support me so I can write, I'm not sure I'd like having to please someone's individual taste that directly. In the meantime, please buy my books so I can afford to to live write more. My new one is due out any day now. - --Neile, book and cd lover, who's sorry to add to this discussion-which-goes-nowhere - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Neile Graham ...... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ....... neile@sff.net Les Semaines: A Weekly Journal . http://www.sff.net/people/neile/semaines The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music ....... http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 15:18:07 -0400 From: "iflin@sirius.com" Subject: bettie serveert and holly cole questions so um. has any BENELUX ectophiles picked up the new BETTIE SERVEERT album? can anyone tell me how it is? they aren't going to be releasing it here until early SEPTEMBER... and does anyone have as US street date for the HOLLY COLE album? i probably should just order via A&B or HMV but i hate mail order. too lazy..... irvin - ------------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been posted from Mail2Web http://www.mail2web.com/ Web Hosting for $9.95 per month! Visit: http://www.yourhosting.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 12:35:53 -0700 From: "Neil K. Guy" Subject: Re: **HAPPY RHODES DROPPED FROM SAMSON At 9:07 PM -0400 7/5/2000, Robert Lovejoy wrote: > > On a more personal note, I would like to encourage all of Happy's > > admirers to put your heads together and perhaps come up with some > > enigmatic or otherwise Happy-friendly labels that might be appropriate > > for her work. > >Nettwork? Actually, Happy has been discussed around here in the past. And I've brought in the last two albums for people to listen to. Unfortunately, though her stuff has generated interest, it's not really in the direction Nettwerk's looking at for the time being. - Neil K. - -- 49N 16' 123W 7' + nkg@nettwerk.com + (604) 654-2929 Chief Geek, Nettwerk Productions 1650 West 2nd Ave. Vancouver, BC, Canada V6J 4R3 The satin finish provides darkly deviant good looks ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 15:57:40 -0400 From: Ted Subject: Re: Spamster Spasms Napster does not equal theft, and I will be here to make sure the RIAA and their lackeys can't control the vocabulary of such a discourse. It is a very simple tactic they are using, they want to train everyone who reads their posts to think of thievery every time the word "Napster" is used. Transfer of emotion, older than the Marlboro Man. It is a sleazy tactic. I call the movement that is against abortion the "pro life movement". Why? Because that is the name they chose for themselves. Their opposition calls them "anti choice". Why? Simple mud slinging. I am pro choice. Why do I use "pro choice" and not "anti life"? because that is the name that the pro choice movement gave to themselves. (Not that I agree with everything the "Pro choice" movement says or does) Using the name "anti choice" is an act of disrespect, it appeals to the reader to form a prejudice. (The AP lexicon still lists "anti-abortion" as their proper doublespeak) That's what's going on in the Napster debate as well. Is it is because the RIAA are grasping at straws in an argument that is above their heads? I'm here to tell ya all, brethren and cistern, names will never hurt us. Not that I'm a big Napster user, I prefer Gnutella. ted btw- I've bought more CD's this year than I have in the last few. 3D was alleged to have uttered: > > now you're being silly. > napster IS theft. > it clearly is copyrite infrignement. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 21:28:37 +0000 From: jjhanson@att.net Subject: New Holly Cole/Jann Arden Hi folks, I'm glad my post got at least one other person out there to order the new Holly Cole album. This album really has grown on me. It's not due out here in the states until fall--I'd heard September, but it may be later. I still don't like it as much as Treasure, but it is a great collection of songs. It takes a few listens though to fully appreciate the nuances of Holly's delivery of the lyrics. I also ordered the new Jann Arden, as well as a brand new Dalbello Greatest Hits which is still out of stock. The new Jann Arden though is fantastic-- I'm just amazed by it. It's definitely my favorite album by her. Wide range of emotions, and though it sounds sometimes like standard pop, her lyrics can really say a lot. Anyone knew who the song Jeanine (sp?) is about? Pretty scathing. Those Canadians do seem to be producing just a heck of a lot of good music right now. Jeff Hanson n.p. Holly Cole - Romantically Helpless n.r. The Voyage of the Narwhal - Andrea Barrett ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 18:08:05 -0400 From: three damons Subject: Re: Spamster Spasms Ted wrote: > > Napster does not equal theft, and I will be here to make sure the RIAA > and their lackeys can't control the vocabulary of such a discourse. just to be clear, then, you don't think that the bootlegs people make of compact discs in china is theft. you don't htink that recording a movie in theatres and selling digital copies of it before it's released for home viewing is theft. you don't think that the guy who is recording slowdive cd singles and selling the cd-r for 20 bucks is theiving. iow, you posit that theft of nonmaterial things does not exist. - -- What political correctness is: Make disparaging remarks about minorites of New York: get suspended for two weeks. Admit to covering up two murders that happened right in front of you: no supsension. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 15:36:00 -0700 From: "phclark" Subject: Re: Another potential label for Happy? Please don't mistake me here. I'm a huge Heidi fan. I think enough of the V23 artwork that I have half a dozen pieces of various sorts on my wall. I listen to DCD and TMC as well "Hope Blister" and it's promos quite often. On vinyl. I think that Heidi Berry was just dumb luck on Ivo's part and that he never knew where she fit on the label. Remember these guys also did Pixies and all sorts of other stuff. I agree about Hope Blister, but if you have much familiarity with 4ad, that's an exception rather than a rule. Note as well, Louise Rutkowski has never recorded an album for 4ad in her own right. Happy is plausible for 4ad, they certainly have the prestige over time. I would only fear that they would not make a big commitment to her. One plus, though, 4ad is huge on back catalogue. Who knows, they might even release her vinyl. Such is the stuff of dreams... Peter C - ----- Original Message ----- From: "dmw" To: "phclark" Sent: Monday, July 10, 2000 10:25 AM Subject: Re: Another potential label for Happy? > On Fri, 7 Jul 2000, phclark wrote: > > > 4ad? You kidding? Their following is fanatic, but small, and considering > > how well Heidi Berry was treated overall, maybe not the best match. > > > > My $0.02. > > > > Peter C > > well, no, i wasn't kidding, though i wasn't aware that Heidi Berry had had > trouble with them. my thought was that Happy's recent stuff wouldn't sit > too ill at odds with the likes of Hope Blister, and they seem to have > decent distribution. i've thought of 4AD as much higher-profile than, > say, Projekt - am i wrong in that? > > > > - oh no, you've just read mail from doug = dmw@radix.net - get yr pathos > - www.pathetic-caverns.com -- books, flicks, tunes, etc. = reviews > - www.fecklessbeast.com -- angst, guilt, fear, betrayal! = guitar pop > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 15:41:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve VanDevender Subject: Re: Spamster Spasms three damons writes: > Ted wrote: > > > > Napster does not equal theft, and I will be here to make sure the RIAA > > and their lackeys can't control the vocabulary of such a discourse. > > > just to be clear, then, you don't think that the bootlegs people make > of compact discs in china is theft. > you don't htink that recording a movie in theatres and > selling digital copies of it before it's released for home viewing is > theft. > > you don't think that the guy who is recording slowdive cd singles and > selling > the cd-r for 20 bucks is theiving. > > > iow, you posit that theft of nonmaterial things does not exist. This is exactly the sort of hyperbole I find so unproductive in this argument. The use of Napster may or may not be theft, and that depends on what individuals do with it, not on it being inherently good or evil. Some uses are clearly very ethical (such as only downloading MP3s of stuff they already own, or sampling tracks for CDs they might want to buy and deleting them if they decide not to buy the CD) while others are not. But saying that any use of Napster is necessarily the same as a number of unrelated examples of thievery is not logically valid, and is trying to sway emotions rather than promote clear thought about either its problems or its benefits. I think Napster as it currently works has both technical and social problems. But I don't see it as an unmitigated evil; it does embody something that people clearly want -- convenient digital distribution of media. That basic desire is not going to go away. The printing press, audio recording, photocopying, and home taping have not been suppressed, despite the fears that some people had about their effects on art and society and the dire warnings that each would destroy literature, art, or music. We're currently in the phase where institutions are trying to adapt to a new technology, and several of them are in the phase where they think it's easier and more profitable to suppress the technology than to adapt to its existence and figure out how to profit from it. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 19:01:20 -0400 From: three damons Subject: Re: Spamster Spasms Steve VanDevender wrote: > > three damons writes: > > Ted wrote: > > > > > > Napster does not equal theft, and I will be here to make sure the RIAA > > > and their lackeys can't control the vocabulary of such a discourse. > > > > > > just to be clear, then, you don't think that the bootlegs people make > > of compact discs in china is theft. > > you don't htink that recording a movie in theatres and > > selling digital copies of it before it's released for home viewing is > > theft. > > > > you don't think that the guy who is recording slowdive cd singles and > > selling > > the cd-r for 20 bucks is theiving. > > > > > > iow, you posit that theft of nonmaterial things does not exist. > > This is exactly the sort of hyperbole I find so unproductive in this > argument. same here. like people arguing over whether abortion is taking a human life. of COURSE it is. THAT'S not the issue to debate. The use of Napster may or may not be theft, and that depends > on what individuals do with it, not on it being inherently good or evil. > Some uses are clearly very ethical (such as only downloading MP3s of > stuff they already own, why the HELL would someone want to do that when shareware mp3 rippers are widely available and don't require 20 mintues to download a song and don't require being online? or sampling tracks for CDs they might want to > buy and deleting them if they decide not to buy the CD) that is what's known as temporary theft. > But saying that any use of Napster is necessarily the same as a number > of unrelated examples of thievery is not logically valid, and is trying > to sway emotions rather than promote clear thought about either its > problems or its benefits. i'm not trying to sway emotions. i am trying to illustrate that napster is intellectual theft, as are these others. this is NOT an indictment against napster: as i've said, the REAL quesiton is whether the theft is justifyable. take the slowdive dc-r guy. slowdive has a huge underground following, and all of the cd singles in question are oop. now, SINCE cd production tech is so cheap nowadays, i think it is *immoral* for any artist NOT to keep all of their work continually in print. - -givent he condition that the rights aren't tied up with with record company, at which point the onus would fall upon them. and not just record artists, there are machines now, which cost [last i heard] about 500k, which can print a professional book in single copies, with the printing cost per copy sdomething like 10 bucks or maybe a bit more. but i digress. while it is unethical to sell work that isn't yours, it IS ethical keep oop work in circulation when it is hjighly demanded. *i* see no real problem is mp3s for such work. even though it IS theivery, it is stealing something that otherwise would not exist. you're concentrating too much on the word, thinking the battle need be fought there. > I think Napster as it currently works has both technical and social > problems. But I don't see it as an unmitigated evil; it does embody > something that people clearly want -- convenient digital distribution of > media. and, as i've said time and again- if some way could be devised to allow artists to authorize which of their work is distributed and which isn't, i'd be all for it. That basic desire is not going to go away. The printing press, > audio recording, photocopying, and home taping have not been suppressed, > despite the fears that some people had about their effects on art and > society and the dire warnings that each would destroy literature, art, > or music. We're currently in the phase where institutions are trying to > adapt to a new technology, and several of them are in the phase where > they think it's easier and more profitable to suppress the technology > than to adapt to its existence and figure out how to profit from it. - -- What political correctness is: Make disparaging remarks about minorites of New York: get suspended for two weeks. Admit to covering up two murders that happened right in front of you: no supsension. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 20:03:20 -0400 From: Jeffrey Burka Subject: Re: Another potential label for Happy? phclark sez: > Happy is plausible for 4ad[...] One plus, > though, 4ad is huge on back catalogue. Who knows, they might even release > her vinyl. Such is the stuff of dreams... Dare I ask: uh, which vinyl would that be? jeff (who *would* still like a decent recording of the original, unedited, version of "The Chase" because his copy of the Rhodes II tape just doesn't sound so hot anymore. Oh. And he'd like another copy of the photo from the RI cover 'cause he lost that one years ago, even though he still has the original tape) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 17:32:32 -0700 From: "phclark" Subject: Re: Another potential label for Happy? Ooops. Slip of the fangers. Please insert the word "on" before vinyl. Peter C - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Burka" To: "ecto" Sent: Monday, July 10, 2000 5:03 PM Subject: Re: Another potential label for Happy? > > > phclark sez: > > > Happy is plausible for 4ad[...] One plus, > > though, 4ad is huge on back catalogue. Who knows, they might even release > > her vinyl. Such is the stuff of dreams... > > Dare I ask: uh, which vinyl would that be? > > jeff > (who *would* still like a decent recording of the original, unedited, > version of "The Chase" because his copy of the Rhodes II tape just doesn't > sound so hot anymore. Oh. And he'd like another copy of the photo > from the RI cover 'cause he lost that one years ago, even though he > still has the original tape) > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 23:07:04 -0400 From: Ted Subject: Re: Spamster Spasms three damons wrote: > > just to be clear, then, you don't think that the bootlegs people make > of compact discs in china is theft. > you don't htink that recording a movie in theatres and > selling digital copies of it before it's released for home viewing is > theft. This is a "slippery slope" posed as a question. Ordinarily questions such as the ones above are offered when a person with an opposing viewpoint has nothing substantial to add to his position, just to bait the other side into an emotional outburst, if possible. I hope that is not your motive, is it? Just to be clear, how I feel about the equipment used to make bootlegs is how I feel about Napster. How I feel about Chinese bootleggers in not the same as how I feel about the Napster community. They 2 are different entities with different agendas. How I feel about selling digital copies is not how I feel about taping a movie on a VCR, or downloading an MP3. Some people have been saying that the whole internet is a den of thieves. Do you agree with them? In light of the fact that a whole lot of illegal activity occurs daily thanks to e mail, renegade FTP servers, and strong encryption, perhaps we should outlaw the internet. It is not that much more sweeping of a viewpoint than the RIAA's present position about Napster. btw- (I ordinarily try not to stray too far off topic in a discussion, but as you are invoking China and bootleggers, perhaps I feel I should be entitled to). Do you believe pot smokers are criminals? What about cocaine users? I just want to know if your morality is consistent with all aspects of law. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 23:12:13 -0400 From: johann johann Subject: roy roy roy Director Ridley Scott has finally revealed the answer to a plot twist in his film Blade Runner which has been the topic of fierce debate for nearly two decades. Movie fans have been divided over whether Harrison Ford's hard-boiled cop character Deckard was not human but a genetically-engineered "replicant" - the very creatures he is tasked with destroying. Little suspicion was raised by the 1982 original version of the film, based on Philip K Dick's novel: Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? But a decade later the Director's Cut edition - although deliberately ambiguous - convinced many that the hero was indeed a replicant and in a Channel 4 documentary Scott at last reveals they are correct. the rest of the poop is at: now we know. woj n.p. belle and sebastian -- tigermilk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 23:21:19 -0400 From: johann johann Subject: amy denio news will woj ever stop forwarding things? maybe someday...but not right now. ;) amy denio touring information for those interested. (apologies to those who are now -- i'd point folks towards her home page, , but the tour dates there are listed completely illegibly). color me jealous of all you lucky ducks between baltimore and the west coast. i can't believe she's skipping new york. *sob* also note the kultur shock show on august 3rd at the bottom of the hill: charming hostess will also be playing the same gig. wow! you san franciscans better not miss that! woj >Upcoming Concerts (see below for particulars) >10-29 July - AMY DENIO & FRANCISCO LOPEZ US TOUR (from Baltimore to LA) >3-5 August - KULTUR SHOCK in SAN FRANCISCO/BAY AREA! >6 & 12 August - AMY DENIO SOLO in SAN FRANCISCO >14-28 August - AMY DENIO & FRANCISCO LOPEZ ARGENTINA TOUR! > >AMY DENIO/FRANCISCO LOPEZ US TOUR: >July 10 - Baltimore - Red Room at Normal's Books 8:30 PM >425 E. 31st St. 410-243-6888 > >July 11 - Richmond - Sweetwater 10PM >727 W. Broad 804-225-8792 > >July 12 - Blacksburg - Bailey's 10PM >117 S. Main St. 540-961-7611 >Tanakh will be opening. > >July 13 - Chattanooga - Barking Legs Theatre - 8PM >1307 Dodds Ave. 423-624-5347 >Pelt/Charalambides will be opening > >July 14 - Nashville - Spring Water - 8PM >115 27th Ave. 615-320-0345 > >July 15 - Louisville - Swanson Cralle Gallery 9PM >638 E. Market 502-589-5466 > >July 16 - Cleveland - Speak in Tongues 9PM >4311 Lorain 216-631-8790 >with Hazard > >July 17 - Pittsburgh - Millvale Industrial Theater 8PM >2100 E. Ohio (Rt 28) 412-321-6488 >with Hazard, Powder French, Twine, and Land > >July 18 - Columbus - Mad Lab 9PM >105 N. Grant 614-221-5418 >with Hazard > >July 19 - Detroit - Entropy Studios (Hamtramck) 8:30 >10338 Jos Campau 313-874-2639 >with Hazard > >July 23 - Albuquerque - Field & Frame >107 Tulane Dr. SE 505-255-6099 >Francisco Lopez solo > >July 25 - Boulder - Boulder Museum of Contemporary Art 8PM >Amy Denio & Francisco Lopez - solo & in duo > >July 29 - LA - Beyond Baroque - 8PM >Beyond Music Sound Festival Vol. III >681 Venice Blvd. Venice, CA 90291 >310-822-3006 >Amy Denio & Francisco Lopez - duo >with John Bischoff, Tom Recchion, and Spastic Colon & Anna Homler > >KULTUR SHOCK IN CALIFORNIA! >August 3 - SF - Bottom of the Hill >with Charming Hostess & 100 Watt Smile > >August 4 - Berkeley - Ashkenaz >with Ali Khan Band > >August 5 - Oakland(?) - 119 Broadway >with Ali Khan Band > >Other Denio Concerts: >August 6 - SF - The Tiptop >at 26th & Mission >Amy Denio solo, with Carla Kihlstedt, Elaine Buckholtz, Dawn "The Fawn" >McCarthy, Lisa >Fay Beatty > >Aug 10 - SF - Luggage Store Gallery >Amy Denio & Miya Masaoko duo, with Assif Tsahar Trio > >August 12 - SF - ZEUM - 1PM - free! >at 4th & Howard >Amy Denio solo > >...and then...Amy Denio & Francisco Lopez have concerts in Buenos Aires >& Cordoba, Argentina. > >Hasta luego, mis amigos - > >Amy Denio >PO Box 85154 >Seattle, WA 98145 >http://www.amydenio.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 23:31:44 -0400 From: Michael Curry Subject: Fwd: more Emily Bezar shows... >Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 10:03:03 -0700 (PDT) >From: Sue Trowbridge >To: Dream Gasoline >Subject: more Emily Bezar shows... > > >Sundays August 6 and 20 >Emily and her Band >9:30 pm - 1:30 am >the Blue Bar at the Black Cat >501 Broadway at Kearny in North Beach >San Francisco >admission $5 > >Sunday August 13 >Emily and her Band >2:30 pm >Club IBEX Stage >at the SAN JOSE JAZZ FESTIVAL >San Jose, California > ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V6 #196 **************************