From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V6 #166 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Sunday, June 11 2000 Volume 06 : Number 166 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Today's your birthday, friend... [Mike Matthews ] Chlotrudis Awards (NAM) [Michael Colford ] Worst song ever! [Terra Incognita ] SINEAD O'CONNOR SAYS SHE'S GAY [stunning@ripco.com] Anne Deming ["Amy" ] Re: Napster and concerts [burp@mindspring.com (Scott Burger)] Re: Worst song ever! [Ted ] Re: Napster [damon foam ] Re: Napster [damon foam ] Re: Napster: a blessing for live music? [damon foam ] Re: Napster [Joseph Zitt ] Re: Napster: a blessing for live music? [burp@mindspring.com (Scott Burge] The thing about American Woman..... (late for the thread again) ["Adam Ki] Re: Napster: a blessing for live music? [Joseph Zitt ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 03:00:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike Matthews Subject: Today's your birthday, friend... i*i*i*i*i*i i*i*i*i*i*i *************** *****HAPPY********* **************BIRTHDAY********* *************************************************** *************************************************************************** ****************** Sonja Juchniewich (no Email address) ******************* *************************************************************************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Sonja Juchniewich Mon June 10 1963 Pegasus Joerg Plate Mon June 12 1967 Gemini Chris Montville Tue June 13 1978 Gemini Ectoplasm (original name) Mailing List Thu June 13 1991 Fuzzier blue Paul Huesman Wed June 14 1967 coffee drinker Mark R. Susskind Wed June 15 1966 Gemini Mike Matthews Mon June 16 1969 Dr. Firewall Albert Philipsen Mon June 17 1968 Gemini Neal R. Copperman Thu June 17 1965 Gemini Susan Kay Anderson Tue June 17 1969 Gemini Ecto-The Mailing List Tue June 18 1991 Fuzzy blue Tracy Barber Mon June 18 1956 Gemini Greg Dunn Thu June 18 1953 + Paul Blair Thu June 18 1964 Objectivist David Lubkin Fri June 20 1958 OurLady Marisa Wood Fri June 20 1969 Gemini Cheri Villines Sun June 20 1965 Gemini-Leo rising Ray Misra Sat June 20 1970 Gemini Nik Popa Sun June 22 1969 Cancer Teresa VanDyne Thu June 23 1960 Cancer Dave Torok Mon June 24 1968 Cancer Ethan Straffin Thu June 24 1971 Cancer Kevin Dekan Mon June 27 1960 Cancer Samantha Tanner Tue June 30 1970 Wild Goose BunkyTom Tue July 02 1968 Cancer Anders Hallberg Tue July 03 1962 Cancer Kevin Harkins Thu July 05 1973 Cancer Laurel Krahn Mon July 05 1971 Cancer John J Henshon Mon July 05 1954 The Year Of The Horse / Ruled By The Moon Jim Gurley Mon July 06 1959 Cancer Lisa Wilson Fri July 08 1960 Moonchild with Java Rising Courtney Dallas Fri July 09 1971 Catte Michael Peskura Sat July 09 1949 HallOfFamer Finney T. Tsai Sat July 09 1966 Cancer - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 09:23:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Colford Subject: Chlotrudis Awards (NAM) Hey everyone, Sorry to bother you all with this non-ecto related post, but there may be some of you who are interested. As you know, I am part of a non-profit movie organization called Chlotrudis Awards. In April, we celebrated our first public Awards Ceremony. There is a summary, along with lots of pictures (a very image intensive page to load) on our webpage if any of you are interested to see what went on. Also, if any of you out there are fledgeling (or not so fledgeling) filmmakers, I would like to announce our first annual film festival of short films, entitled "Reflections on Identity." Guidelines for submissions and an entry form are also available on the website at the Film Festival page. So please come take a look at http://www.chlotrudis.org/ The link to the Awards Ceremony can be found off the menu page, and the Film Festival info appropriately on the Film Festival page. Thanks for your time, Michael Colford Chlotrudis Awards, President http://www.chlotrudis.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 09:58:59 +0000 From: Terra Incognita Subject: Worst song ever! I challenge anyone to find a song worse than Sergio Mendez and Brazil '66's version of "Fool on the Hill." AARGH!! Sharon Terra Incognita http://www.geocities.com/runly/terra.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 01:08:55 -0700 From: stunning@ripco.com Subject: SINEAD O'CONNOR SAYS SHE'S GAY http://www.music365.co.uk/autocontent/news_36493.htm Thomas Dunning Brown Star Records Chicago I WANNA BE KATE: The Songs of Kate Bush http://www.ripco.com/~stunning/kate VISIT THE WEBSITE! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 13:30:39 -0500 From: "Amy" Subject: Anne Deming Hi all, I just wanted to let you know if a new artist I have discovered. Her name is Anne Deming and she is from Minneapolis, MN. She is super good. She has been described as both folk and alternative. She plays guitar and sings (beautiful voice) writes all her own stuff (though sometimes she does some kick ass covers too). She's also a very cool person. You can see more at the page I made for her here: http://www.ecalos.com/spotlight/annedeming.html Or her Official page where you can listen to her songs on Real Audio (these are really good quality, I usually hate RA but these sound really good) Check her out!! ~Amy Women In Music http://www.ecalos.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:08:38 -0500 From: burp@mindspring.com (Scott Burger) Subject: Re: Napster and concerts >On Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 01:56:14PM -0500, Scott Burger wrote: >> Create >> more of a package that adds value to the music and is worth collecting. > >I wonder how it would be if T-shirt vendors were told that they'd have >to give away their work for free, but could try to make money by making >music that reminds people of the shirts. > Maybe t-shirt vendors would do that if they could keep materials costs down the way musicians can through technology, and could make enough of an emotional connection to their customers with their t-shirts to sell them music about the t-shirts. P.O. Box 14738 Richmond, VA 23221 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:19:54 -0400 From: Ted Subject: Re: Worst song ever! Oh that's easy, "Fudd on a Hill" (Artist forgotten, But it's on Rhino's "Best of the Worst vol 2" compilation.) Terra Incognita wrote: > I challenge anyone to find a song worse than Sergio Mendez and Brazil > '66's version of "Fool on the Hill." AARGH!! > > Sharon > Terra Incognita > http://www.geocities.com/runly/terra.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 16:04:09 -0400 From: damon foam Subject: Re: Napster Marcel Rijs wrote: > > Hi, > > Regarding the recent Napster debate here on ecto, I must say that I am surprised at how many of you have been taken in by the music industry propaganda. > I don'tknow about the american situation, but here in the Netherlands you will pay up to $21 for a single album CD, and up to $8 for a CDsingle. These prices, which are the same all around the country, are defended by the argument that 'this is a free market and shops decide their own prices'. why would they be defended by those arguments? record compnaies set minimum sales prices. but, why should it matter? if you want to buy art, shouldn't you be willing to pay money for it? ..... > The comparisons made on this forum between downloading MP3's and rape / murder, are, frankly, beyond ridiculousness. I might even feel offended if I didn't realise just how dumb the comparison was. MP3's are not the source of evil, they're just "the new radio": plenty of people download songs just to listen to them, and buying the album later. > There will always be a group of people downloading whole albums and sleeves from the Internet, but these were not going to buy the CD's anyway, well, that's the question. it's absolutely certains ome of them would have bought the cd. the questionis what percentage. > Joseph Zitt wrote: > > Two relevant quotes: > > 1. "Home taping is killing music." > > Indeed, indeed, indeed..... A slogan used by that very same record industry some 20-odd years ago. People are still hometaping, and music is far from dead. How can this be???? well, home taping is limited to small numbers of peers to tape htings from. imagining home taping where you cantape *anything* all over the planet. it's a matter of scale. - -- The universe has a different ending. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 16:03:58 -0400 From: damon foam Subject: Re: Napster Ted wrote: > > Just a couple of counter points in the lively debate that has been taking place > lately: > > Dave Williamson wrote: > > > I took one browse through it to see what all the fuss was about and found > > nothing but entire album and catalogue ripoffs, and bootlegs. The cassette tape argument just > > does not fly - quality and longevity of medium put that to bed immediately. > > Some artists encourage bootlegs to be distributed via napster, and some artists encourage album > tracks > to be distributed. Theft is not a binary issue here, there are lots of shades of gray. > btw- does anybody know why the RIAA has abandoned their "MP3 is inferior to CDA" campaign? > > > Sorry folks, but I want good music to continue to exist - it will do so if we pay for it. > > Proliferation and continuation of Napster-like technology will destroy everything but commercial > > radio pap. > > Not if you continue to support your local listener supported radio station! > Remember that Happy got her break from WXPN, > a bunch of RIAA hating hippy DJs if there ever were (At least I think they were in their heyday. > I can't say I listen to XPN a lot these days, they got a little toooooo Hee Haw for my taste the > last few years, but I digress) > > I have not seen any premise that has been laid out in the Napster debate that leads to this > particular > "doomsday" conclusion. > I can induce these facts however: > A. Music pre-dates recording and radio technology by at least a few years. > B. "Commercial radio pap" has only been around since the invention of radio .(Oh ok, > that's not really a valid premise for this argument, just a swipe at radio in general) it's also silly and incorrect. there was plenty of dreck back then. > I think that it's safe to believe that music will survive any "worst case" napster scenario. > So will pap, unfortunately, and it will be leaner and meaner pap. > Really, those who will be hit the hardest in the next few years will be the pap mongers and the play > list. there ARE artists who make a living by selling their music who will suddenly find it hard to if all the music is dsitributed freely. SOME of them are actually good. > Oh, and the "bricks and mortar" distributors of course, but Walmart can always recover their losses > by upping the price of Flo-bees. > > Ted (the artist formerly known as "Napster of Puppets") > > np: Elvis_Costello_ Radio_Radio.mp3 elvis costello is fairly good. but i guess HE wouldn't need to get royalties off of cd sales to make enough money to continue making music full time. - -- The universe has a different ending. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 16:04:19 -0400 From: damon foam Subject: Re: Napster: a blessing for live music? Scott Burger wrote: > > Personally, I am not going to cry if people buy less cds. I am hoping that > Napster and other programs will eventually help make music available to > anyone, anywhere. > And even if that is being naieve, I hope this stuff forces people to put a > premium on live shows. Maybe that will help touring artists make more of a > living, open more clubs, take the emphasis off looks and videos, etc. > -Scott live shows can't support artists. plus there aren't really enough clubs now to do it like you think it would be done. artists will make LESS of a living, meaning less time for making art and more time for making a living. - -- The universe has a different ending. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 15:32:39 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Napster On Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 04:04:09PM -0400, damon foam wrote: > if you want to buy art, shouldn't you be willing to pay money for it? The question may center around the word "buy". What means of financial compensation for art can you imagine that doesn't necessarily involve the transfer of possession of material objects? - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 17:48:16 -0500 From: burp@mindspring.com (Scott Burger) Subject: Re: Napster: a blessing for live music? >Scott Burger wrote: >> >> Personally, I am not going to cry if people buy less cds. I am hoping that >> Napster and other programs will eventually help make music available to >> anyone, anywhere. >> And even if that is being naieve, I hope this stuff forces people to put a >> premium on live shows. Maybe that will help touring artists make more of a >> living, open more clubs, take the emphasis off looks and videos, etc. >> -Scott > >live shows can't support artists. what do you mean by support? I know plenty of bands whose main source of income is not cds but live shows. >plus there aren't really enough clubs now to do it like you think it >would be done. I know. My argument is that MP3's will make recorded music free, but live shows will have more importance attached to them because they are not always readily available. It may take take time, but I believe this new premium on live shows will create a market for more clubs. Not everybody wants to sit in front of a big screen their whole lives > >artists will make LESS of a living, meaning less time for >making art and more time for making a living. > Maybe in the short term, but I believe there will always be artists who can figure out a way to make their living off their craft. Besides, there are a lot of crappy artists NOW who are spending more time making a living and less time on making art. I say let Napster and MP3s take some of the commercialism out of today's music. I think it is a good thing. P.O. Box 14738 Richmond, VA 23221 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:12:49 +0100 From: "Adam Kimmel" Subject: The thing about American Woman..... (late for the thread again) I was speaking to someone about the film Austin Powers 2, and his only protest about it was the use of American Woman, being "flag-waving" stuff. I had to point out to him that, if he listened to the lyrics, it was far from that. In fact, the story goes that the Guess Who wrote it when they were turned away from the US border because they had some minor drugs charge against them. the "woman" in question is, in fact, the Statue of Liberty. Well, that's how it started, anyway -- it is, in fact, an anti-American song! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 19:13:51 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Napster: a blessing for live music? In other words, by making it possible for people to get any music they want for free instantly in the comfort of their own homes, they will be encouraged to go somewhere out of their way and spend money to get it? On Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 05:48:16PM -0500, Scott Burger wrote: > >Scott Burger wrote: > >> > >> Personally, I am not going to cry if people buy less cds. I am hoping that > >> Napster and other programs will eventually help make music available to > >> anyone, anywhere. > >> And even if that is being naieve, I hope this stuff forces people to put a > >> premium on live shows. Maybe that will help touring artists make more of a > >> living, open more clubs, take the emphasis off looks and videos, etc. > >> -Scott > > > >live shows can't support artists. > > what do you mean by support? I know plenty of bands whose main source of > income is not cds but live shows. > > >plus there aren't really enough clubs now to do it like you think it > >would be done. > > I know. My argument is that MP3's will make recorded music free, but live > shows will have more importance attached to them because they are not > always readily available. It may take take time, but I believe this new > premium on live shows will create a market for more clubs. Not everybody > wants to sit in front of a big screen their whole lives > > > > >artists will make LESS of a living, meaning less time for > >making art and more time for making a living. > > > > Maybe in the short term, but I believe there will always be artists who can > figure out a way to make their living off their craft. Besides, there are a > lot of crappy artists NOW who are spending more time making a living and > less time on making art. I say let Napster and MP3s take some of the > commercialism out of today's music. I think it is a good thing. > > P.O. Box 14738 Richmond, VA 23221 > - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 21:51:45 -0500 From: burp@mindspring.com (Scott Burger) Subject: Re: Napster: a blessing for live music? >In other words, by making it possible for people to get any music they >want for free instantly in the comfort of their own homes, they will be >encouraged to go somewhere out of their way and spend money to get it? > Kinda like...radio? Yeah, like I said, it may take time, but I believe people will get tired of watching screens and want to be part of the moment, so to speak. Call it naive, but I grew up with punk, which in a large part was about immediacy and action. It sure as hell was not about comfort. - -Scott P.O. Box 14738 Richmond, VA 23221 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 21:11:36 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Napster: a blessing for live music? On Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 09:51:45PM -0500, Scott Burger wrote: > >In other words, by making it possible for people to get any music they > >want for free instantly in the comfort of their own homes, they will be > >encouraged to go somewhere out of their way and spend money to get it? > > > > Kinda like...radio? In a sense -- the fundamental difference being that you could choose what music you'd here *whenever* you'd want it, without being subject to the DJ's choices. > Yeah, like I said, it may take time, but I believe people will get tired of > watching screens and want to be part of the moment, so to speak. Call it > naive, but I grew up with punk, which in a large part was about immediacy > and action. It sure as hell was not about comfort. People have now had about a century to get tired of listening to and looking at inanimate boxes in their living rooms. Seen any sign of this fading? How will making this experience even easier change this for anyone other than the small group of mostly young, mostly unencumbered people who make up the music-activist audience? I came up through classical music and performance art, in the latter of which, at least being there was part of the experience. Both punk and performance art, however, appealed to a vanishingly small audience. (I'm reminded of a truism/gag that the Velvet Underground only sold records to 1000 people, but everyone of them went out and started a band.) How would you suggest that we translate the immediacy to a form where enough people know about and want to participate that they can support bands to the extent that the bands can thrive? And what about those musics that require large studio resources and budgets? - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 22:47:43 -0400 From: meredith Subject: various things Hi! First: any of the NYC-folk planning on going to see Merrie Amsterburg at Fez on Tuesday? Second: saw The Nields last night. It occurred to me that it's coming up on 7 years since the first time I saw them play -- pretty unbelievable. They were playing in Hartford at the Trinity College reunion (3/5 of the band are Trinity grads), and I'd heard it would be pretty easy just to wander in. Turned out that was correct - but I quickly became legit anyway, as I ended up manning the merchandise table. It wasn't the greatest of venues: they were supposed to be playing outside on the quad by the clambake, but there was a slight chance of thunderstorms so they had been moved inside to an auditorium above the dining hall. As a result nobody was there in the beginning except the fans who had crashed the reunion. (Katryna said if nobody else showed up by the time they started, they'd just take requests from the audience all night. :) The show was supposed to consist of two hour-long sets starting at 7:30; instead it was one 90-minute set starting at 8:30. People eventually wandered in once they heard the music going, and I can state with assurance that they sold lots and lots of CDs. :) They played most of the new album, _If You Lived Here You'd Be Home Now_, as well as a couple of my absolute faves from earlier albums: "Gotta Get Over Greta", "The Train", and "(Just Like) Christopher Columbus", which I hadn't heard in a very long time, but people had been shouting out requests for it all night, so they finally gave in. All in all it ended up being a good show. This kind of ties in to some of the recent debate here, too: The Nields are my favorite live band for many reasons, not least of which is the fact that every time I see them I get a hug from Nerissa and a sincere "thanks for coming" from the rest of the band. (I don't see myself selling merch for the likes of Tori or Sarah McLachlan any time soon, either.) That give-and-take with the small indie artist is a large part of what keeps me coming back. Does this make me a snob? I don't think so. I've found myself much more gratified by live music than the recorded variety over the past couple years. The best live music experiences I've had have been intimate affairs, in venues ranging from a packed house at the Mercury Lounge to my living room. You don't get that on a CD, and you certainly don't get that in places like Madison Square Garden or the Oakdale Theater. Joe noted: >The one person I can think of who manages to be simultaneously huge and >personal is Tori. I think this may be due to her intimate approach onstage: >even when playing stadiums, there's still almost a feeling of sitting in >a small room with her and her piano. It may also be due to her lyrics, >which, as they grow ever more oblique, almost force each listener to >construct her own meanings from them. She also goes out of her way to keep that connection with the audience. Last year when I saw the Tori/Alanis tour, Tori stopped a song in the middle and berated the stage security goons for pushing audience members away from the area in front of the stage. She said something to the effect of, 'It's between me and the kids. If you're not going to let me sing to the kids, then I'm not going to do this any more tonight.' They backed off. glenn commented: >Letting popularity distort your tastes in either >direction is, I suspect, more often than not a form of snobbery. Ecto seems >particularly vulnerable to it, and it's nothing to be proud of. I bought _Surfacing_ before it was officially released, therefore well before it became a huge seller and rocketed Sarah McLachlan to superstardom. I don't listen to it for one simple reason: it's a bad album. The number of units sold has absolutely nothing to do with it. Do I feel that Sarah was *trying* to get more popular, and that affected the quality of the album? Yes. (Her strategy obviously worked, so more power to her.) Will I buy Sarah's next album? Probably, though I bet I'll check it out at a listening station first. I still pull out Paula Cole's _This Fire_ upon occasion, sales figures be damned. It's a fine piece of work, and I like it. The fact that millions of other people have it on their CD racks doesn't enter into my decision to hear it at all. The number of other people who own an album doesn't have any bearing whatsoever on whether I'm going to buy it. The quality of music and how appealing the music is to me is what determines whether I'm going to shell out the bucks for the disc. Now to some other items: Mike Connell reported re bootlegging one's own shows: >I don't know about the rest of you, but this concept intrigues me to no >end. I certainly hope this becomes a trend that catches on. Oooh! I hope hope hope Tori's people get that idea ... Finally, again from Joe: >OK, someone please grab the contents of >http://silence.metatronpress.com/jzitt/ectomp3.html >and post them someplace appropriate on smoe.org... I can do that if I know where to put them (BIG thanks to Ian for compiling this list!!! You've reduced the size of my ecto mailbox by about 90%, because now I don't have to keep all the messages with those MP3 pointers in them! :). Neile? Damon? Back to the hockey game ... GO DEVILS!!! :) +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V6 #166 **************************