From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V6 #164 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Friday, June 9 2000 Volume 06 : Number 164 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Bootlegging ones own shows [Mike Connell ] Re: MP3.com references in the rest of the Ecto Archives [Joseph Zitt ] Re: Napster [damon foam ] Re: Napster [Steve VanDevender ] The Innocence Mission news [Michael Curry ] Re: Basque. Self-titled [Andrew Fries ] Re: Napster [Dave Williamson ] Re: Napster: a blessing for live music? [Dave Williamson ] Re: American Woman [Ted ] Re: Basque. Self-titled [Joseph Zitt ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 16:22:46 -0400 From: Mike Connell Subject: Bootlegging ones own shows I don't know about the rest of you, but this concept intrigues me to no end. I certainly hope this becomes a trend that catches on. Mike :-) In Tuesday's USA Today: Pearl Jam plans to bootleg its own shows In a one-paragraph announcement on its official Web site, Pearl Jam said it will release a series of live bootleg recordings on two-CD sets. The band plans to release complete shows from each concert on its current European tour, potentially 25 album sets in all. The CDs will be available in August at www.tenclub.net and later in stores. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 15:55:42 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: MP3.com references in the rest of the Ecto Archives OK, I've updated http://silence.metatronpress.com/jzitt/ectomp3.html to include these. Thanks, Ian! On Thu, Jun 08, 2000 at 03:53:36PM -0400, Ian Clysdale wrote: > OK, there don't seem to be any references to mp3.com anywhere earlier in the > Ecto Archives than volume 5. (I only went as far back as volume 3, but I'm > pretty sure that mp3.com didn't exist that long ago). > > Jess Weiser made a reference to there being "somewhere in the archives" a > list of ectophiles who had their own sites on mp3.com, but I didn't find > that list anywhere. > > Anyways, here are all of the ones from volume 5 that weren't already in my > list from volume 6. Hope that these lists provide a basis for people to > wander through mp3.com. > > ian. > np: Cowboy Junkies, Pale Sun Crescent Moon > nr: Ron Hutton, Pagan Religions of the Ancient British Isles > > > > > v05.n121:http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/12/anne_omeara_heaton.html > v05.n132:http://www.mp3.com/susancourt/ > v05.n146:http://www.mp3.com/artists/13/azigza.html > v05.n153:http://www.mp3.com/artists/11/june__the_exit_wounds.html > v05.n164:http://www.mp3.com/artists/21/michelle_nagy.html > v05.n168:http://www.mp3.com/bluehouse > v05.n169:http://www.mp3.com/saraayers > v05.n169:http://www.mp3.com/indiegrrl > v05.n265:http://www.mp3.com/artists/25/brenda_kahn.html > v05.n267:http://www.mp3.com/artists/28/donna_de_lory.html > v05.n287:http://www.mp3.com/secondstory/ > v05.n290:http://www.mp3.com/silverscene/ > v05.n359:http://www.mp3.com/electrostatic/ > v05.n362:http://www.mp3.com/meredithlevande/ > v05.n369:http://www.mp3.com/suzycallahan/ > v05.n403:http://www.mp3.com/trancevision/ > v05.n424:http://www.mp3.com/antigonerising/ > v05.n424:http://www.mp3.com/velvetchain/ > v05.n424:http://www.mp3.com/tamlyn/ > > -- > ian clysdale & "in 21st century america, harassment and cruelty are > ian@redmaple.yi.org & fine as long as you don't do it on a computer." > www.redmaple.yi.org & - http://slashdot.org/features/00/06/01/1526235.shtml - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 16:01:56 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Bootlegging ones own shows They're catching on to a trend. King Crimson announced that they're doing this (*and* making all the show available in streaming video) a while back. On Thu, Jun 08, 2000 at 04:22:46PM -0400, Mike Connell wrote: > I don't know about the rest of you, but this concept intrigues me to no > end. I certainly hope this becomes a trend that catches on. > > Mike :-) > > In Tuesday's USA Today: > > Pearl Jam plans to bootleg its own shows > > In a one-paragraph announcement on its official Web site, Pearl Jam said it > will release a series of live bootleg recordings on two-CD sets. The band > plans to release complete shows from each concert on its current European > tour, potentially 25 album sets in all. The CDs will be available in August > at www.tenclub.net and later in stores. - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 19:49:57 -0400 From: damon foam Subject: Re: Napster canetoad@panix.com wrote: > > > Here's another really good editorial about Napster by Greatful Dead > > lyricist and co-founder of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, John > > Perry Barlow: > > > > http://www.technocrat.net/958163435/index_html sadly, sadly, misguided. he says that napster will facilitate pay per downloads. feh. > And, while we're on the topic, a couple of amusing takes from > The Brunching Shuttlecocks: > > http://www.brunching.com/features/feature-metallicaletter.html > http://www.brunching.com/features/feature-napstercontest.html yes, that's right. petty jealous whingeing. - -- The universe has a different ending. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:00:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve VanDevender Subject: Re: Napster damon foam writes: > > And, while we're on the topic, a couple of amusing takes from > > The Brunching Shuttlecocks: > > > > http://www.brunching.com/features/feature-metallicaletter.html > > http://www.brunching.com/features/feature-napstercontest.html > > yes, that's right. > petty jealous whingeing. But "The Björk Song" referred to in the Napster contest article is great. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 21:22:21 -0400 From: Michael Curry Subject: The Innocence Mission news >Date: Thursday, 8 Jun 2000 17:00:00 -0700 >From: innocencemission@kneelingelephant.com >To: innocencemission_list@kneelingelephant.com >Subject: The Innocence Mission > >Dear the innocence mission fan, > >Here are some exciting updates surrounding the innocence mission: > >Acoustic Guitar Magazine: >Acoustic Guitar Magazine interviews Don and Karen in the June 2000 >issue which is now at newsstands. You may read a glimpse of the >article and interview at: > http://www.theinnocencemission.com/images/acoustic_guitar.htm > >UK: >"Birds Of My Neighborhood" is now available at stores in the UK >through BMG UK. > >The Hearsay Magazine's Issue 21 is now available and features an >interview with Don and Karen. The magazine also includes a CD >compilation created by the UK record label Evensong with a the >innocence mission non-album track titled "A Thousand Miles." >You may order a copy of Hearsay #21 at: >http://www.hearsaymagazine.demon.co.uk/order.htm >And, you may contact evensong directly to order a free (just pay >for the shipping) copy of the CD sampler at: >http://www.evensong.co.uk/catalogue.htm >To see a list of the other artists on the compilation visit: >http://www.evensong.co.uk/artists.htm > >Christ Is My Hope: >the innocence mission created a new album of traditional hymns and >folk songs entitled "Christ Is My Hope." The collection includes 3 >original songs and is available at the band's web site > http://www.theinnocencemission.com >All profits will be donated to relief charities. 80% will be given >to Food For The Poor, a US-based organization working to provide >food, shelter, medicine, and educational supplies and opportunities >to those in need in Latin America and the Caribbean. The remainder >will be used to support the Council of Churches food bank in >Lancaster, PA. > >Songbook: >Also available on the band's site is a songbook / companion to >"Birds Of My Neighborhood." This book focuses on the essential >accompaniment parts to each song, chord diagrams, standard >notation, melody and tabs, as well as 5 pages of photos and >lyrics. > >Take Me Home: A Tribute to John Denver: >"Take Me Home" a Tribute to John Denver features the innocence >mission's version of "Follow Me". Red House Painters front man, >Mark Kozelek, compiled this remarkable collection of popular and >obscure songs of John Denver and also highlights versions by Will >Oldham, Low, Tarnation and Red House Painters. The tribute album >is now available in stores and through the label's website: >http://www.badmanrecordingco.com/html_bmr/audio_rel/ar_various.html >or at the ARTISTdirect Superstore: >http://www.ubl.com/album.asp?a_id=R+++470547&p_id=VA > >And "Birds Of My Neighborhood" is available at the ARTISTdirect >Superstore: >http://ubl.com/album.asp?a_id=R+++425639&p_id=P+++++4549&artistid=2858 > >Please check back in with the Kneeling Elephant web site >http://kneelingelephant.com for future updates. > >Enjoy the end of Spring and beginning of Summer! >Kneeling Elephant Records ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 11:33:10 +1000 From: Andrew Fries Subject: Re: Basque. Self-titled On Tue, 6 Jun 2000, Craig Gidney wrote about Basque: > very open, airy music, with lots of silence written into the tracks. >Maryasque has a beautiful, strident voice, highly reminiscent to Sinead >O?Connors?. Oh. God. I'm besotted with this one. Minimalist, streamlined precision of a scalpel, but with haunting beauty lacking in surgical instruments :) This is amazing, totally addictive stuff... excuse me, gotta go and download some more (there's quite a bit of their stuff on mp3.com, and Basque go straight to the top of my list for my next order) - ------------------------------------------------------ "You know you're a Mac addict when you build your house without windows or gates." - ------ http://www.zip.com.au/~afries/hall.html ------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 22:11:06 -0400 From: Dave Williamson Subject: Re: Napster So let's examine your logic further. I can purchase the latest Britney Spears CD at my local CD store in Canada for CDN$14 or $15 before taxes. In the past year I have mail ordered for new releases from artists like Aimee Mann, Ani Difranco, Emm Gryner, Cowboy Junkies, Rebecca Campbell, Sarah Harmer, and numerous others. All are distributed on small or independent labels. At a minimum I have paid in excess of CDN$20, and in some cases as high as CDN$35 for these CDs. So how is this? Well with smaller distribution and manufacturing runs, the basic costs for these artists are higher. I am also getting more of my cash directly into the artists pockets as they get a bigger cut on the independent release. So how does this all add up? I firmly believe that more and more people will follow Marcel's logic if the ability to pirate increases. It is not hard to conclude which artists suffer the most per illegal copy of their work, and where this could lead.... Dave. Marcel Rijs wrote: > Hi, > > Regarding the recent Napster debate here on ecto, I must say that I am surprised at how many of you have been taken in by the music industry propaganda. > I don'tknow about the american situation, but here in the Netherlands you will pay up to $21 for a single album CD, and up to $8 for a CDsingle. These prices, which are the same all around the country, are defended by the argument that 'this is a free market and shops decide their own prices'. > Any new technology that will break the monopoly of record companies is immediately condemned and put into a dark corner by these companies. > > It's often been said that if CD's were cheaper less people would resort to hometaping, cloning of CD's, downloading MP3's and everything else. These arguments are dismissed by the same old argument: CD's aren't expensive, and stealing is wrong. > > The comparisons made on this forum between downloading MP3's and rape / murder, are, frankly, beyond ridiculousness. I might even feel offended if I didn't realise just how dumb the comparison was. MP3's are not the source of evil, they're just "the new radio": plenty of people download songs just to listen to them, and buying the album later. > There will always be a group of people downloading whole albums and sleeves from the Internet, but these were not going to buy the CD's anyway, so why bother writing a new policy for these people? The worst thing that will happen is that they might actually want to have the 'real' album if the product is beautiful enough. I know someone who bought a Taiwanese edition of Britney's first CD because of the free mousemat and CD-ROM provided with it. And this person doesn't buy CD's _at_all_! (Funny that he should buy, of all things, a Britney album but I'll put that aside for now.... ) > > Joseph Zitt wrote: > > Two relevant quotes: > > 1. "Home taping is killing music." > > Indeed, indeed, indeed..... A slogan used by that very same record industry some 20-odd years ago. People are still hometaping, and music is far from dead. How can this be???? > > > 2. "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." > > Hands off Napster, that's what I say. But then again, I'm biased... :) > > Marcel Rijs > afd. Communicatie > marcel.rijs@konbib.nl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 22:16:12 -0400 From: Dave Williamson Subject: Re: Napster: a blessing for live music? Hmmmmm - no CDs, no ability to sell recorded music. So just how much would you be willing to pay for admission to this wonderful new world of live music? Scott Burger wrote: > Personally, I am not going to cry if people buy less cds. I am hoping that > Napster and other programs will eventually help make music available to > anyone, anywhere. > And even if that is being naieve, I hope this stuff forces people to put a > premium on live shows. Maybe that will help touring artists make more of a > living, open more clubs, take the emphasis off looks and videos, etc. > -Scott > > P.O. Box 14738 Richmond, VA 23221 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 22:20:30 EDT From: RavFlight@aol.com Subject: American Woman This is just a general gripe...not exactly ecto either...but does it drive anyone else mad that they seem to use the song "American Woman" (Either the Lenny Kravitz remake or the original Guess Who version) to actually signify an American Woman either on a commercial or a film. It makes me wonder if these people actually listen to the rest of the lyrics of the song outside of the "American Woman" portion. it seems to me that the majority of the song is about the singer telling the American Woman to stay as far away from him as humanly possibly. I realize that this is a rather trivial gripe..but it is honestly something that has been riding on me. There is a commercial out now that is supposedly about how strong and wonderful American Women are..but as the lyrics play, "American Woman, Stay away from me. Amercian Woman, momma let me be. Don't come knocking around my door, I don't want to see your face no more", it seems to totally defeat the purpose. Alright, enough gripe Ryan Rogers ravFlight@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 22:33:23 -0400 (EDT) From: josh burnett Subject: Re: Napster: a blessing for live music? On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, Dave Williamson wrote: > Hmmmmm - no CDs, no ability to sell recorded music. So just how much would > you be willing to pay for admission to this wonderful new world of live music? Well, you could also download mp3 copies of concerts, couldn't you? jcb. Josh Burnett * http://www.freespeech.org/jcb/index.html (home) http://www.freespeech.org/jcb/dontsay/index.html (journal) "We may be through with the past, but the past ain't through with us." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 12:41:55 +1000 From: Andrew Fries Subject: Re: record companies as banks?! On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, Cerquone, Suzanne wrote: >What I can bring to the table is down-and-dirty market >research: we surveyed just under a thousand people (mostly college kids, >the biggest Napster/MP3 users), and there are definite instances of new >release sales being lost due to MP3 downloading. It varies per artist and >genre - usually it's the young bands like Backstreet Boys and Kid Rock who >lose the most sales. We asked these same people if they feel guilty >downloading music for free, and a very large percent said "not at all." >Next question was "do you think the artists should be paid for their music?" >and a large percent said yes. So there's a really obvious disconnect going >on here: these kids don't realize that THEY are the ones who have to take >responsibility to pay the artists! It's really quite incredible. that indeed is valuable, being practically the only piece of actual evidence I've seen quoted in this debate. But with all due respect, I'd like to see an independent confirmations of any findings from a study conducted by a recording companies. I also wonder about other relevant questions that could be asked, such as: "would you buy a CD you downloaded?", "would you be likely to buy other CDs by the artist you downloaded?" and even, "would you be more likely to see them perform?". And while you mention "young" bands losing most sales, I wonder if that would hold true if we tried "unsigned" instead? In short, I'd need to know a lot more before jumping to conclusions... - ------------------------------------------------------ "You know you're a Mac addict when you build your house without windows or gates." - ------ http://www.zip.com.au/~afries/hall.html ------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 23:03:45 -0400 From: Ted Subject: Re: American Woman I just could never stand that song in the first place. That song is an instant invitation for me to avoid any product it is associated with at all costs. A Tommy Hillfinger commercial would only narrowly be worse if they used Sammy John's "Chevy Van" instead of "American Woman". I guess there are some songs ya' just plain hate in life. Teddy Pullmyfinger RavFlight@aol.com wrote: > This is just a general gripe...not exactly ecto either...but does it drive > anyone else mad that they seem to use the song "American Woman" ... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 22:30:22 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Basque. Self-titled Oh, wow. Well, both their DAM CDs are now in my shopping cart. (And I've added them to http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt/ectomp3.html ) On Fri, Jun 09, 2000 at 11:33:10AM +1000, Andrew Fries wrote: > On Tue, 6 Jun 2000, Craig Gidney wrote about Basque: > > > very open, airy music, with lots of silence written into the tracks. > >Maryasque has a beautiful, strident voice, highly reminiscent to Sinead > >O?Connors?. > > Oh. God. I'm besotted with this one. Minimalist, streamlined precision of > a scalpel, but with haunting beauty lacking in surgical instruments :) > This is amazing, totally addictive stuff... excuse me, gotta go and > download some more (there's quite a bit of their stuff on mp3.com, and > Basque go straight to the top of my list for my next order) > > ------------------------------------------------------ > "You know you're a Mac addict when you build your house > without windows or gates." > ------ http://www.zip.com.au/~afries/hall.html ------- - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V6 #164 **************************