From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V6 #163 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Thursday, June 8 2000 Volume 06 : Number 163 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: A personal Music Database [neal copperman ] Re: Napster ["glenn mcdonald" ] Today's your birthday, friend... [Mike Matthews ] Re: Napster [Andrew Fries ] Recent Listening [anna maria "stjärnell" ] Re: ecto-degest V6 #161 (Napster) [ken@3com-ne.com (Ken Descoteaux)] Re: napster ["Tom Ditto" ] Hana. Self Titled. (recommendation). [Craig Gidney ] Re: napster [ken@3com-ne.com (Ken Descoteaux)] Re: Napster [Joseph Zitt ] Re: napster ["Tom Ditto" ] Re: napster [Joseph Zitt ] Re: napster [Ted ] Re: napster [Joseph Zitt ] Re: napster [Ted ] Over the Rhine news [eperkins@mindspring.com] Ecto-MP3 [Ian Clysdale ] record companies as banks?! ["Cerquone, Suzanne" ] Re: Ecto-MP3 [Joseph Zitt ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 00:37:26 -0600 From: neal copperman Subject: RE: A personal Music Database At 10:28 AM +1000 6/4/00, Martin G Bridges wrote: >This sound svery similar to the program I use - Spinfree Audiofile. This one >also has CDDB lookup ability, albeit via a small plug-in program, not from >the main database. Also it doesn't have CDDB update ability (although this >is promised in version 5). Audiofile works fine for me. I wanted to mention that I have been using Audiofile for 5 or so years and like it pretty well. I got stuck back on version 1.2, cause it was fully modifiable (so long as you had the database program it was written in), and I did a lot of changes to the version I was using. After that, they took away that capability, and I didn't upgrade. The latest version has a lot of modifiable features in it, so I've been in the long, tedious process of trying to transfer the data. The new version has a lot of nice benefits over the old one, and I think I will be very satisfied with it once it is done. One other big advantage of Audiofile is that it is available for Macs, as well as Windows. If anyone wants more specific details or has any questions, I'd be happy to talk about it more. You can see screenshots and download a sample copy with restricted capabilities from http://www.spinfree.com neal np: O Seasons O Castles - Katell Keinig ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 02:38:18 -0400 From: "glenn mcdonald" Subject: Re: Napster > Too big for you. (or me, since I tend to agree with you.) Obviously > not too big for hundreds of thousands of others, but too big for > those of us that crave the intimacy you discuss in our music. But surely you see what doesn't make sense in this argument. You say you crave intimacy in your music, but when more people buy a record, the record doesn't change. _Fumbling Towards Ecstasy_ and _Pieces of You_ and _Jagged Little Pill_ (and _Pygmalion_ and _Little Misery Birds_ and _Warpaint_) are exactly as intimate, today, as they were the day they quietly appeared. The concerts may change, the fan mail may not get answered as quickly (or at all), but if you and the music, alone in your living room, change, that has to be *your* doing. Letting popularity distort your tastes in either direction is, I suspect, more often than not a form of snobbery. Ecto seems particularly vulnerable to it, and it's nothing to be proud of. Have the strength of your convictions: like what you like, no matter how obscure *or* ubiquitous. glenn ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 03:00:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike Matthews Subject: Today's your birthday, friend... i*i*i*i*i*i i*i*i*i*i*i *************** *****HAPPY********* **************BIRTHDAY********* *************************************************** *************************************************************************** ************ Alex Gibbs (arg@kilimanjaro.opt-sci.arizona.edu) ************* *************************************************************************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Alex Gibbs Thu June 08 1967 Betelgeuse Gleb Zverev Tue June 09 1964 Gemini Sonja Juchniewich Mon June 10 1963 Pegasus Joerg Plate Mon June 12 1967 Gemini Chris Montville Tue June 13 1978 Gemini Ectoplasm (original name) Mailing List Thu June 13 1991 Fuzzier blue Paul Huesman Wed June 14 1967 coffee drinker Mark R. Susskind Wed June 15 1966 Gemini Mike Matthews Mon June 16 1969 Dr. Firewall Albert Philipsen Mon June 17 1968 Gemini Neal R. Copperman Thu June 17 1965 Gemini Susan Kay Anderson Tue June 17 1969 Gemini Ecto-The Mailing List Tue June 18 1991 Fuzzy blue Tracy Barber Mon June 18 1956 Gemini Greg Dunn Thu June 18 1953 + Paul Blair Thu June 18 1964 Objectivist David Lubkin Fri June 20 1958 OurLady Marisa Wood Fri June 20 1969 Gemini Cheri Villines Sun June 20 1965 Gemini-Leo rising Ray Misra Sat June 20 1970 Gemini Nik Popa Sun June 22 1969 Cancer Teresa VanDyne Thu June 23 1960 Cancer Dave Torok Mon June 24 1968 Cancer Ethan Straffin Thu June 24 1971 Cancer Kevin Dekan Mon June 27 1960 Cancer Samantha Tanner Tue June 30 1970 Wild Goose BunkyTom Tue July 02 1968 Cancer Anders Hallberg Tue July 03 1962 Cancer Kevin Harkins Thu July 05 1973 Cancer Laurel Krahn Mon July 05 1971 Cancer John J Henshon Mon July 05 1954 The Year Of The Horse / Ruled By The Moon Jim Gurley Mon July 06 1959 Cancer Lisa Wilson Fri July 08 1960 Moonchild with Java Rising - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:25:37 +1000 From: Andrew Fries Subject: Re: Napster On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, glenn mcdonald wrote: >But surely you see what doesn't make sense in this argument. You say you >crave intimacy in your music, but when more people buy a record, the record >doesn't change. .. but that's probably not what Neal meant, and definitely not what I had in mind. It is the intimacy of the scene I was talking about, which, sure enough, brings the accusations of snobbery. But I'm after being a meaningful part of it all, rather than just a consumer. Because I'm not a musician, Glenn - I can't even write a review as good as yours - so showing up in the audience and buying a CD are basically the main ways I can contribute. And I can't help feeling my contribution matters more when I'm one of a hundred than one of a million. I don't think it's snobbery, but if it is, well so be it - I'm not really THAT afraid of this word. So I'm going to display that strength of conviction you asked for, and I'll stick by my views. - ------------------------------------------------------ "You know you're a Mac addict when you build your house without windows or gates." - ------ http://www.zip.com.au/~afries/hall.html ------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 01:57:44 -0700 (PDT) From: anna maria "stjärnell" Subject: Recent Listening Hi.. Some recent listening.. Rebecca Timmons self titled disc.. Wow. Powerful voice and brilliant songwriting. Vocally like a less intense Toni Childs..Musically like Tori only different somehow. Alice Texas "Gold" An mp3.com find..Strong female voice and noir countryvibes. Pj fronting Mazzy Star maybe. Intense and melodic. Rainy Day Covers by the paisley underground..Great to hear Susanna Hoffs sing I'll Keep it with Mine and Kendra Smith do Holocaust by Big star. Anna Maria __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 10:17:08 -0400 (EDT) From: ken@3com-ne.com (Ken Descoteaux) Subject: Re: ecto-degest V6 #161 (Napster) Tom said: > Since the Napster/Gnutella conspiracy is going to be dragged into courts under > the sway of American and English tradition, the operative principle will > inevitably become "private property is the basis of law." It would be nice if we went back to traditional law, because under traditional law TONS of material would now be public domain with copyrights expired. > Joe Zitt and I had a one day exchange on all this last week, and he argued for > compromise. That would be nice, but given the current polarization, I forecast a > war pushing those of us in the middle into opposing camps which I categorized as > the copyright lawyers vs. the anarchists. The polarization began with the copyright holders. They lobbied the government until they turned a temporary right into a (for all intents and purposes) permanent right. When they did this the public was robbed. Mickey Mouse should now be public property, how much money does this theft from the public represent? It's important to remember that intellectual property is NOT and was never intended to be the same thing as real property. IP rights were created via law as a quid pro quo for society's benefit. Private property rights were temporarily granted for IP in exchange for getting it published and distributed. After a period of time those private property rights expired and the IP reverts to the public. This is the battle that will be fought, to stop the screwing of the public. Here's my personal compromise proposal: 1) You can publish under the copyright law, as it was at the start of the century, and have all the rights there by granted, OR 2) You can publish with some kind of technical lock, key, encryption, whatever and get whatever rights you can manage to maintain without the benefit of copyright law. But you cannot do both. How is something that is encrypted supposed to ever enter the public domain? Since it cannot, when you publish that way you are not upholding your end of the bargain and the law should not uphold its end either. - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 10:52:53 -0400 From: "Tom Ditto" Subject: Re: napster > It would be nice if we went back to traditional law, because under traditional > law TONS of material would now be public domain with copyrights expired. Alors M. Descoteaux, Change the law; don't break it. It's a democratic method that could, in fact, blow holes in the copyright strangle hold. If enough red blooded Americans want to roll back the clock 100 years, their 200 hundred year old voting rights will make it possible. I don't know where you hail from, but if it isn't L.A. or NYC, you probably can organize and get your representative to act on behalf of the majority of people in your district who, like you, want a change in the law. The copyright law involves the population as a whole. There are trade-offs in every respect. I'm not advocating that the law remain static as it exists, but I do insist that it can't be violated ad hoc. I do see in your letter the type of rationalization for piracy that I tried to characterize as indicative of an addiction. The need for downloading free music has swept away the reluctance to violate the law that normally would be present in a balanced individual. I'd suggest that you starve yourself from this addictive downloading for a while, and when you find your feet; go to the real political process at your disposal, not the illusory one that makes it seem OK to download copyrighted materials for free. In fact, if you are a well intentioned individual, let's up the ante, and use the internet to covert our representative republic to a direct participatory democracy. In that model, we all vote from our interent connections on any issue that we want. The way I see it, we continue to elect representatives (no change in the Constitution). In turn the representatives who meet in session vow to follow the outcome of polls they conduct on the internet. So, in the case of the overbearing copyright law, your representative would be able to ask a series of questions in your district or state that would define the limits of Intellectual Property ownership, and the voting public would decide what was best for society. Since this is an internet issue, the votes would come from the very people who are interested in the Napster/copyright problem. In such a scenario I would expect that along with Metallica and the RIAA you would start to see petitions from artists you love who need the copyright protection in order to survive economically. It would temper the vote somewhat, if I read the tea leaves from Ecto where most correspondents have a great deal of respect for the creative artists who are discussed here. Dr. Tom ditto@taconic.net "So many voices, so few choices." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 08:06:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Craig Gidney Subject: Hana. Self Titled. (recommendation). Vaporous is the only word that accurately describes this collaborative effort between Sky Cries Mary vocalist Anisa Romero and ambient keyboard guru Jeff Greinke. Greinke's lush wall of electronics swells and swelters, aided by tabla rhythms and Romero's mostly wordless warbling. The material apparently grew out of an off-one soundtrack collaboration the duo did for a Circe de Soliel-styled horse show. Animism seems to be a subtext; animals appear in the titles of the songs: "Horse Dance" and "Lizard Opera." There's something sensual and snake-like about Romero's vocalizations. Two songs have actual lyrics, including the almost-catchy "Smoke." This CD is dreamy and sexy-perfect make-out music. - --Craig __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 11:03:29 -0400 (EDT) From: ken@3com-ne.com (Ken Descoteaux) Subject: Re: napster Tom said: > > Change the law; don't break it. Unfortunately since money is involved it's hard to change the law back, or even to keep it from being further changed (eg. the DMCA). However civil disobedience is always a viable way to get the third branch of government involved, a branch that isn't swayed by the pockets of either side. > I do see in your letter the type of rationalization for piracy that I tried > to characterize as indicative of an addiction. The need for downloading free > music has swept away the reluctance to violate the law that normally would > be present in a balanced individual. I'd suggest that you starve yourself > from this addictive downloading for a while, and when you find your feet; go > to the real political process at your disposal, not the illusory one that > makes it seem OK to download copyrighted materials for free. Guess again. I do not have Napster, Gnutella, or any other. The MP3s that I have came from my own CDs strictly so that I could listen on my computer with more convenience. My pissed-offed-ness comes more from the lack of BOOKS online. More books should be public domain and available. I've written on this before, ever since I became aware of a web project that was stymied in its goal of getting public domain books online after the Sonny Bono Copyright Extension Act was passed. > > In such a scenario I would expect that along with Metallica and the RIAA you > would start to see petitions from artists you love who need the copyright > protection in order to survive economically. It would temper the vote > somewhat, if I read the tea leaves from Ecto where most correspondents have > a great deal of respect for the creative artists who are discussed here. Do they really need copyright until 75(?) years after they are dead to survive economically? I thought you couldn't take it with you, nor did you even need money in the afterlife? - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 10:34:22 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Napster The one person I can think of who manages to be simultaneously huge and personal is Tori. I think this may be due to her intimate approach onstage: even when playing stadiums, there's still almost a feeling of sitting in a small room with her and her piano. It may also be due to her lyrics, which, as they grow ever more oblique, almost force each listener to construct her own meanings from them. On Thu, Jun 08, 2000 at 05:25:37PM +1000, Andrew Fries wrote: > On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, glenn mcdonald wrote: > > >But surely you see what doesn't make sense in this argument. You say you > >crave intimacy in your music, but when more people buy a record, the record > >doesn't change. > > .. but that's probably not what Neal meant, and definitely not what I > had in mind. It is the intimacy of the scene I was talking about, which, > sure enough, brings the accusations of snobbery. But I'm after being a > meaningful part of it all, rather than just a consumer. Because I'm not a > musician, Glenn - I can't even write a review as good as yours - so > showing up in the audience and buying a CD are basically the main ways I > can contribute. And I can't help feeling my contribution matters more > when I'm one of a hundred than one of a million. I don't think it's > snobbery, but if it is, well so be it - I'm not really THAT afraid of > this word. So I'm going to display that strength of conviction you asked > for, and I'll stick by my views. - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 11:31:12 -0400 From: "Tom Ditto" Subject: Re: napster - ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Descoteaux To: ; Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2000 11:03 AM Subject: Re: napster > Tom said: > > > > Change the law; don't break it. > Unfortunately since money is involved it's hard to change the law back, or > even to keep it from being further changed (eg. the DMCA). However civil > disobedience is always a viable way to get the third branch of government > involved, a branch that isn't swayed by the pockets of either side. 1. Civil disobedience (have you tried it?) is a process where an individual or group openly defies the law in anticipation of arrest, trial and punishment. As Thoreau is reputed to have said from his prison cell, "What are you doing out there, Mr. Emerson?" 2. The process of changing the law is a challenge, but laws do change all the time, nonetheless. > > makes it seem OK to download copyrighted materials for free. > > Guess again. I do not have Napster, Gnutella, or any other. The MP3s that > I have came from my own CDs strictly so that I could listen on my computer > with more convenience. My pissed-offed-ness comes more from the lack of BOOKS > online. More books should be public domain and available. I've written on > this before, ever since I became aware of a web project that was stymied in its > goal of getting public domain books online after the Sonny Bono Copyright > Extension Act was passed. Well, sorry that you can't have every book you'd want for free, but look at what is free on the internet, and count your blessings. I spend all the hours at my disposal yesterday reading a beautifully recreated edition of Swift's _Gulliver's Travels_. It reads as if it was written yesterday... no, as if it were written 20 years from now. The classics are available. Then there is all that stuff that is put up by people willing to give it away. Link piled on top of link from library to library. None of this existed before the internet. Your cup is easily half full, M. Descoteaux. Mine overfloweth. > > Do they really need copyright until 75(?) years after they are dead to survive > economically? I thought you couldn't take it with you, nor did you even need > money in the afterlife? No. This was rewrite was wrong. It should be repealed. I agree, even though I am 55 with a 3 year old child whose expected burden on me or my estate will require the income from my patents and copyrights, very likely after my death. But even if the law is now off balance, it doesn't make sense to download music by living musicians or ones recently deceased whose estates are supporting their survivors. Hey, even Sonny Bono died before his time. Admittedly the Bono copyright law rewrite was wrong, and it should be changed. It can be changed, but not necessarily just backwards, as you have suggested. It can be changed forwards to a better balance. Write up the changes that are needed in the light of the Internet, and try sending them to D.C. It's a hot topic. You might strike a chord. How can you know if you don't even try? Dr. Tom ditto@taconic.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 11:01:45 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: napster On Thu, Jun 08, 2000 at 11:03:29AM -0400, Ken Descoteaux wrote: > Do they really need copyright until 75(?) years after they are dead to survive > economically? I thought you couldn't take it with you, nor did you even need > money in the afterlife? While one may not need money after one is gone, one's survivors might. Though, granted, 75 years is a tad extreme. - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 12:50:47 -0400 From: Ted Subject: Re: napster Tom Ditto wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ken Descoteaux > To: ; > Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2000 11:03 AM > Subject: Re: napster > > > Tom said: > > > > > > Change the law; don't break it. > > Unfortunately since money is involved it's hard to change the law back, or > > even to keep it from being further changed (eg. the DMCA). However civil > > disobedience is always a viable way to get the third branch of government > > involved, a branch that isn't swayed by the pockets of either side. > > 1. Civil disobedience (have you tried it?) is a process where an individual > or group openly defies the law in anticipation of arrest, trial and > punishment. As Thoreau is reputed to have said from his prison cell, "What > are you doing out there, Mr. Emerson?" > > 2. The process of changing the law is a challenge, but laws do change all > the time, nonetheless. I take it that you have never tried to change the laws governing marijuana use. There is a reason it is still illegal, and it is not because it is bad. It is simple underground economics that keeps marijuana illegal, the South American drug cartels want it illegal more than anybody else. (Now I say all this as a completely drug free person, I had an allergic reaction to pot when I tried it as a teen...Well, I do drink coffee and I love wine.) I think a lot can be learned by comparing the obvious civil disobedience of some napster users to that of the simple marijuana user. Although some loyal to the RIAA have been trying to poison the well of meaningful debate by likening a napster user to a *hard* drug addict, I think a simple "couple of times a week toker" could be more accurate, and I believe many on the Ecto list know the subtle differences between a pot smoker and a heroine addict. Now a Pot smoker does it because he does not believe the party line about the medical dangers, or the argument that it is a gateway drug to harder substances. Most smokers that I have run across do it for enjoyment, some for spirituality. Many are decent members of society. Some are of above average intelligence, some that I've known are even at the highest levels of society and well respected in their academic professions. Many know the futility of trying to make it legal, as we all do at least from the news. Do you think these people should go to jail for 5 years for growing a pot plant? Well, of course comparisons can not be perfect, but the bottom line is that these people have tread on the turf of the drug cartels, that is why the sentence is so harsh. Can anybody else on this list see the similarities? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 12:13:28 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: napster On Thu, Jun 08, 2000 at 12:50:47PM -0400, Ted wrote: > I believe > many on the Ecto list > know the subtle differences between a pot smoker and a heroine addict. I don't know about pot smokers here, but the degree of EWS devoted to buying CDs by Ecto Goddesses shows many of us to be addicted to our heroines. - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 13:25:16 -0400 From: Ted Subject: Re: napster My apologies for my maverick spell checker.- ted Joseph Zitt wrote: > On Thu, Jun 08, 2000 at 12:50:47PM -0400, Ted wrote: > > > I believe > > many on the Ecto list > > know the subtle differences between a pot smoker and a heroine addict. > > I don't know about pot smokers here, but the degree of EWS devoted to > buying CDs by Ecto Goddesses shows many of us to be addicted to our > heroines. > > -- > |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| > | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | > | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | > | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 14:24:11 -0400 From: eperkins@mindspring.com Subject: Over the Rhine news OTRhine@aol.com wrote: > If you are in the Seattle area, tune into 94.9 FM for a special LIVE interview and performance with Karin and Linford Tuesday, June 13: Seattle WA KUOW 94.9FM to air 10:00-10:30 am Live radio interview and performance Upcoming shows - see you there! Friday, June 23: Dayton OH Canal Street Tavern - 937.461.9343 tickets $10 adv, $12 dos Saturday, June 24: Kent OH Brady's Cafe tickets $10 at the door - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | To subscribe/unsubscribe: Majordomo@ActWin.com | Subject is ignored | message: SUBSCRIBE (or UNSUBSCRIBE) listname | The three versions of this list (listnames) are: | over-the-rhine discussion list | over-the-rhine-digest digest version of discussion list | over-the-rhine-announce to only receive "official" messages from OTR ***************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 15:18:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Ian Clysdale Subject: Ecto-MP3 Hi. You don't know me because I never post, but I've learnt a lot sitting and listening to all of you over the last while. Anyways, I just went and did what Joseph suggested, and ran grep on the ecto list archives to find all references to mp3.com sites. I've finished going through all of volume 6, and am going through volume 5 now - I'll send it out next time I have some spare time to finish it. Anyways, here is (as far as I could find) every mp3.com site recommended by ecto readers in volume 6 of the ecto digest. I've cleaned it up to give them all the same format, but I've included the digest number that they were all recommended in, so that people can go find what the various writers actually had to say about the various sites. One thing that really struck me going through this is that small "ecto-ish" musicians already know the value of distributing their music, and definitely don't need the inconvenient and messy medium of Napster to promote it. ian. v06.n003:http://www.mp3.com/ediecarey/ v06.n003:http://www.mp3.com/heather/ v06.n009:http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt/ v06.n010:http://www.mp3.com/lacyjames/ v06.n017:http://www.mp3.com/jessweiser/ v06.n017:http://www.mp3.com/magdalenhsuli / v06.n020:http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/6/karling_abbeygate_amp_the_monk.html v06.n030:http://www.mp3.com/emilybezar/ v06.n032:http://www.mp3.com/sarahlentz/ v06.n040:http://www.mp3.com/yourhero v06.n041:http://www.mp3.com/melayneweb/ v06.n041:http://www.mp3.com/judecowan/ v06.n053:http://www.mp3.com/pondus/ v06.n064:http://www.mp3.com/paige/ v06.n065:http://www.mp3.com/michellecross/ v06.n073:http://www.mp3.com/pamelazero/ v06.n073:http://www.mp3.com/deborahconway/ v06.n098:http://www.mp3.com/michelleyoung/ v06.n101:http://www.mp3.com/graycode/ v06.n122:http://www.mp3.com/wendyrule/ v06.n125:http://www.mp3.com/kimjustice v06.n130:http://www.mp3.com/fisher v06.n131:http://www.mp3.com/maxsharam/ v06.n131:http://www.mp3.com/connieianieri/ v06.n135:http://www.mp3.com/aisth/ v06.n135:http://www.mp3.com/firstofjune/ v06.n135:http://www.mp3.com/aprillisa/ v06.n135:http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/20/lisa_richards.html v06.n138:http://www.mp3.com/rachaelsage/ v06.n143:http://www.mp3.com/esthervalentine/ v06.n147:http://www.mp3.com/elizabethschaefer/ v06.n155:http://www.mp3.com/lisacerbone/ - -- ian clysdale & "in 21st century america, harassment and cruelty are ian@redmaple.yi.org & fine as long as you don't do it on a computer." www.redmaple.yi.org & - http://slashdot.org/features/00/06/01/1526235.shtml ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 12:25:30 -0700 From: "Cerquone, Suzanne" Subject: record companies as banks?! Joe Zitt wrote: >>That what they do involves music is almost irrelevant -- after all a lot of the music put out today is done by branches of Seagrams, which is better known as a liquor provider.>> Hey now! Let's not forget there's a Seagrams/Universal employee on this list. Without sounding like a corporate blowhard, the fact that Seagrams owns us really doesn't mean much, much like other large multinationals that have their hands into many diverse cookie jars. If anything, it's a nice compliment. We just cross-promoted our New Zealand band, Oceania, with the product debut of a New Zealand wine from Brancott Vineyards, part of Seagrams. Other than instances like that, Universal is very much its own company. If you hate AOL, do you no longer listen to music from Warner Bros.? If you think alcohol is evil, do you boycott Universal music and films? I'm not asking this because there's a right and wrong answer, because there really isn't. As for Napster, I find it really incredible that of the 4 music lists I'm on, EVERYONE is fighting over this issue. It's obviously not an argument that can be won. What I can bring to the table is down-and-dirty market research: we surveyed just under a thousand people (mostly college kids, the biggest Napster/MP3 users), and there are definite instances of new release sales being lost due to MP3 downloading. It varies per artist and genre - usually it's the young bands like Backstreet Boys and Kid Rock who lose the most sales. We asked these same people if they feel guilty downloading music for free, and a very large percent said "not at all." Next question was "do you think the artists should be paid for their music?" and a large percent said yes. So there's a really obvious disconnect going on here: these kids don't realize that THEY are the ones who have to take responsibility to pay the artists! It's really quite incredible. And now a shameless plus for the websites I manage at Universal: http://www.universalclassics.com/usa http://www.deccabroadway.com If you like classical and broadway, and even a little crossover fare like the Gladiator soundtrack and such... ~ Suzanne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 15:53:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Ian Clysdale Subject: MP3.com references in the rest of the Ecto Archives OK, there don't seem to be any references to mp3.com anywhere earlier in the Ecto Archives than volume 5. (I only went as far back as volume 3, but I'm pretty sure that mp3.com didn't exist that long ago). Jess Weiser made a reference to there being "somewhere in the archives" a list of ectophiles who had their own sites on mp3.com, but I didn't find that list anywhere. Anyways, here are all of the ones from volume 5 that weren't already in my list from volume 6. Hope that these lists provide a basis for people to wander through mp3.com. ian. np: Cowboy Junkies, Pale Sun Crescent Moon nr: Ron Hutton, Pagan Religions of the Ancient British Isles v05.n121:http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/12/anne_omeara_heaton.html v05.n132:http://www.mp3.com/susancourt/ v05.n146:http://www.mp3.com/artists/13/azigza.html v05.n153:http://www.mp3.com/artists/11/june__the_exit_wounds.html v05.n164:http://www.mp3.com/artists/21/michelle_nagy.html v05.n168:http://www.mp3.com/bluehouse v05.n169:http://www.mp3.com/saraayers v05.n169:http://www.mp3.com/indiegrrl v05.n265:http://www.mp3.com/artists/25/brenda_kahn.html v05.n267:http://www.mp3.com/artists/28/donna_de_lory.html v05.n287:http://www.mp3.com/secondstory/ v05.n290:http://www.mp3.com/silverscene/ v05.n359:http://www.mp3.com/electrostatic/ v05.n362:http://www.mp3.com/meredithlevande/ v05.n369:http://www.mp3.com/suzycallahan/ v05.n403:http://www.mp3.com/trancevision/ v05.n424:http://www.mp3.com/antigonerising/ v05.n424:http://www.mp3.com/velvetchain/ v05.n424:http://www.mp3.com/tamlyn/ - -- ian clysdale & "in 21st century america, harassment and cruelty are ian@redmaple.yi.org & fine as long as you don't do it on a computer." www.redmaple.yi.org & - http://slashdot.org/features/00/06/01/1526235.shtml ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 13:48:47 -0600 (MDT) From: Neal Copperman Subject: Re: Napster On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, Andrew Fries wrote: > On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, glenn mcdonald wrote: > > >But surely you see what doesn't make sense in this argument. You say you > >crave intimacy in your music, but when more people buy a record, the record > >doesn't change. > > .. but that's probably not what Neal meant, and definitely not what I > had in mind. It is the intimacy of the scene I was talking about, which, > sure enough, brings the accusations of snobbery. Yes, Andrew is right. I understand the the music on the CD is not different. I can sit at home and enjoy it as well as I did before. I was explicitly talking about the concert experience, and my relationship to it. I love live music, and for me, a lot of the music I like really comes to life live. One of my favorite things is being in a small, intimate environment, and experiencing powerful music. It is my belief that doesn't happen to me in stadiums and giant pavillions. Maybe it is a less pure way of relating to the music, but my connection dramatically increases the more I can see it live. I was not particularly into the Cowboy Junkies prior to seeing a loose, impromptu New Years Eve show just before Miles From Home came out. (And the Junkies apparently don't usually do loose shows at all, based on what I've seen.) I've now seen them twice, both in clubs from very close, and was entranced by the show. Last week they played at an outdoor amphitheater here, and I decided against spending the money for the amphitheater experience. I just figured it wouldn't add anything to my enjoyment of the cd's, and was more hastle then it was worth. Instead, I finally decided to quit being one of the many (and I say this cause I am editing the Junkies guide page, and I've seen this comment regularly) who say "why don't I have more of their albums?" I went to their web site, and every single album is under $10 US, so I ordered them all (minus the 2 that I have). And I have been to a number of shows over the years where I have been able to talk to the performers, on stage, during the show - answering or asking questions, requesting songs, amusing interactions. Does this increase the value of their recorded music? No, of course not. But it increases my connection with them, which affects how I listen to things. And it affects the images and memories that I associate with the music. This has happened with people like Holly Cole, Veda Hille, Susan McKeown, Jewel, Cindy Lee Berryhill and more. And most of these people push their live music beyond where it goes on CD. Jewel is the only one I've seen in a large place, and I was pretty impressed with her amphitheater show, but she certainly wouldn't have the place in my heart that she does if I hadn't started by seeing her in coffeehouses. (And judging by Glenn's reviews and comments on the subject of Jewel, he should be able to see where I'm coming from.) Well, work beckons, neal np: Forever - Rainbirds ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 15:12:39 -0400 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Ecto-MP3 OK, someone please grab the contents of http://silence.metatronpress.com/jzitt/ectomp3.html and post them someplace appropriate on smoe.org... On Thu, Jun 08, 2000 at 03:18:58PM -0400, Ian Clysdale wrote: > > > Hi. You don't know me because I never post, but I've learnt a lot sitting > and listening to all of you over the last while. > > Anyways, I just went and did what Joseph suggested, and ran grep on the > ecto list archives to find all references to mp3.com sites. I've finished > going through all of volume 6, and am going through volume 5 now - I'll > send it out next time I have some spare time to finish it. > > Anyways, here is (as far as I could find) every mp3.com site recommended by > ecto readers in volume 6 of the ecto digest. I've cleaned it up to give > them all the same format, but I've included the digest number that they > were all recommended in, so that people can go find what the various writers > actually had to say about the various sites. > > One thing that really struck me going through this is that small "ecto-ish" > musicians already know the value of distributing their music, and definitely > don't need the inconvenient and messy medium of Napster to promote it. > > ian. > > > > v06.n003:http://www.mp3.com/ediecarey/ > v06.n003:http://www.mp3.com/heather/ > v06.n009:http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt/ > v06.n010:http://www.mp3.com/lacyjames/ > v06.n017:http://www.mp3.com/jessweiser/ > v06.n017:http://www.mp3.com/magdalenhsuli / > v06.n020:http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/6/karling_abbeygate_amp_the_monk.html > v06.n030:http://www.mp3.com/emilybezar/ > v06.n032:http://www.mp3.com/sarahlentz/ > v06.n040:http://www.mp3.com/yourhero > v06.n041:http://www.mp3.com/melayneweb/ > v06.n041:http://www.mp3.com/judecowan/ > v06.n053:http://www.mp3.com/pondus/ > v06.n064:http://www.mp3.com/paige/ > v06.n065:http://www.mp3.com/michellecross/ > v06.n073:http://www.mp3.com/pamelazero/ > v06.n073:http://www.mp3.com/deborahconway/ > v06.n098:http://www.mp3.com/michelleyoung/ > v06.n101:http://www.mp3.com/graycode/ > v06.n122:http://www.mp3.com/wendyrule/ > v06.n125:http://www.mp3.com/kimjustice > v06.n130:http://www.mp3.com/fisher > v06.n131:http://www.mp3.com/maxsharam/ > v06.n131:http://www.mp3.com/connieianieri/ > v06.n135:http://www.mp3.com/aisth/ > v06.n135:http://www.mp3.com/firstofjune/ > v06.n135:http://www.mp3.com/aprillisa/ > v06.n135:http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/20/lisa_richards.html > v06.n138:http://www.mp3.com/rachaelsage/ > v06.n143:http://www.mp3.com/esthervalentine/ > v06.n147:http://www.mp3.com/elizabethschaefer/ > v06.n155:http://www.mp3.com/lisacerbone/ > > -- > ian clysdale & "in 21st century america, harassment and cruelty are > ian@redmaple.yi.org & fine as long as you don't do it on a computer." > www.redmaple.yi.org & - http://slashdot.org/features/00/06/01/1526235.shtml - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Jerusaklyn http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V6 #163 **************************