From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V6 #128 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Monday, May 8 2000 Volume 06 : Number 128 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Today's your birthday, friend... [Mike Matthews ] Laura Love -- new cd? ["Adam Kimmel" ] Dar Williams and a pointless anecdote. ["Adam Kimmel" ] MP3, CD RW, etc. [Dave Williamson ] Re: MP3, CD RW, etc. [neal copperman ] Re: Laura Love -- new cd? ["Jack Sutton" ] Re: Dar Williams [Jess913@aol.com] throwing muses' gut pageant 2000 [meredith ] Re: MP3, CD RW, etc. [Sue Trowbridge ] Re: MP3, CD RW, etc. [Sue Trowbridge ] Re: MP3, CD RW, etc. ["Scott S. Zimmerman" ] ID yet another commercial song? ["Foghorn J Fornorn" ] MP3, CD-R, & c., redux [Kim Justice ] Aimee Mann "Bachelor #2" [RocketsTail@aol.com] Quote from Chantal Kreviazuk [RocketsTail@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 03:00:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike Matthews Subject: Today's your birthday, friend... i*i*i*i*i*i i*i*i*i*i*i *************** *****HAPPY********* **************BIRTHDAY********* *************************************************** *************************************************************************** ************* Richard A. Holmes (rholmes@ccrma.Stanford.EDU) ************** *************************************************************************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Richard A. Holmes May 07 Taurus Steve Ito Fri May 08 1970 DA Bull... Brian Gregory Thu May 09 1963 Eclectic Heidi Maier Wed May 10 1978 Taurus Patrick Varker Wed May 12 1954 Torius Philip David Morgan Sat May 12 1962 Chinese Tiger in Bull Clothing Steve Fagg Tue May 13 1958 Nightwol Karel Zuiderveld Fri May 13 1960 Stier Michael Colford Wed May 16 1962 Taurus Christopher Boek Tue May 19 1970 Taurus Yngve Hauge Fri May 21 1971 Gemini Lisa Laane Tue May 22 1973 Gemini Jewel Kilcher Thu May 23 1974 The Gem Chandra Sriram Thu May 27 1971 Gemini Urs Stafford Thu May 31 1973 Give Way Perttu Yli-Krekola Thu June 02 1966 Kaksoset - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 12:12:52 +0100 From: "Adam Kimmel" Subject: Laura Love -- new cd? Harmony Ridge have a new Laura Love cd listed, "Fourteen Days" -- does anybody know anything about this? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 12:12:01 +0100 From: "Adam Kimmel" Subject: Dar Williams and a pointless anecdote. I was listening to the Dar Williams cd, and made it to the end -- no reflection AT ALL on the music, just a mixture of bad timing and me playing the first 4 songs over and over again. Oh boy. When I was 21 and living in NYC, I got stressed out and ill, and my weight dropped to 105lbs and my lungs closed up, and I had this job that meant getting up at 5AM to get there for the breakfast shift, and I could barely make it to the subway station, barely walk up an incline (stairs were insurmountable -- it would take me twenty minutes to walk up the four flights to my flat). But, at the time, the Kinks had this song out, Better Things, and whenever I heard it I'd laugh, and it always gave me some sort of faint hope. Now, almost 20 years later, I get to the end of this excellent cd by Dar Williams, and I hear her version. And I cry. This is a great album. Sorry to bore you with the details. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 10:12:23 -0400 From: Dave Williamson Subject: MP3, CD RW, etc. Frankly I found much of this thread bothersome. I am not addressing this to those of you recording CDs at home (for your own use) that include music you have in some way legitimately purchased, or music you are sampling at the discretion of the artist. But to those of you in effect stealing music: In the end you are simply killing the potential for a continued pipeline of artists that this list in fact celebrates. Small circulation artists live and breathe by whatever revenues they can gain through the rights to the music they created. They only get those revenues when you and I BUY what they create. Every time you copy something from Napster, or any of the other sources of so called "Free Music" out there on the web, you are effectively robbing the artist who created it of what they are due. You are probably also impacting the ability of that artist to survive and continue to create, and discouraging others from bothering to record in the first place. So when I see an entire thread devoted to telling people how to use technology to steal, and consider how that is so contrary to the purpose of the list that this exchange was carried out on, it disturbs me. My $0.02. Dave. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 08:40:20 -0600 From: neal copperman Subject: Re: MP3, CD RW, etc. At 10:12 AM -0400 5/7/00, Dave Williamson wrote: >But to those of you in effect stealing music: > >In the end you are simply killing the potential for a continued pipeline >of artists that this list in fact celebrates. Small circulation artists >live and breathe by whatever revenues they can gain through the rights >to the music they created. They only get those revenues when you and I >BUY what they create. Every time you copy something from Napster, or >any of the other sources of so called "Free Music" out there on the web, >you are effectively robbing the artist who created it of what they are >due. You are probably also impacting the ability of that artist to >survive and continue to create, and discouraging others from bothering >to record in the first place. Course, if you legitimately buy the music from a used CD store, which doesn't seem to have issues of legality associated with it, and no one would accuse you of stealing, then you also are giving absolutely no money to an artist. Granted, the distribition possibilities of something like Napster are far greater than the abilities of used CD shoppers (though there are plenty of stores linked together on the web too), but as far as supporting artists, the issues are the same. neal now shuffling over: Just Say Roe (bought used -especially good for a benefit album) Anna Wolfe (bought new from the artist) Buffy Sainte-Marie (bought new) Veda Hille bootleg (bootleg - whole other can of worms) Leona Naess (bought used) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 07:58:43 -0700 From: "Jack Sutton" Subject: Re: Laura Love -- new cd? The release date is June 27 on Zoe Records, a subsidiary of Rounder. Jack Sutton Harmony Ridge Music www.hrmusic.com - ----- Original Message ----- From: Adam Kimmel To: ecto list Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2000 4:12 AM Subject: Laura Love -- new cd? > Harmony Ridge have a new Laura Love cd listed, "Fourteen Days" -- does > anybody know anything about this? > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 12:46:39 EDT From: Jess913@aol.com Subject: Re: Dar Williams << Another big "thank you" to the ecto list -- on its recommendation, I picked up Dar Williams' Moral City, >> that would be MORTAL City, not moral....... just though i'd clear that up. and i must say that i think her first cd, The Honesty Room, is her best. I highly recommend checking it out. its has some of her most gorgeous songs on it. jess b ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 14:03:52 -0400 From: meredith Subject: throwing muses' gut pageant 2000 Hi! Yesterday the folks at Throwing Music threw the first "Gut Pageant", a fan appreciation day and Throwing Muses reunion show at the Middle East in Cambridge, MA. Oh. My. God. Mike Curry, woj and I got there a little after the doors were supposed to open at 1 pm, to find the line still snaking around the block. I took the opportunity to go purchase a sweatshirt (Salvation Army, $3! :), because despite the fact that it was 80+ degrees in Connecticut, it was still 50-something in Boston, and I was decidedly underdressed. Brrrr. Eventually the doors opened, and the festivities began. The day consisted of a hang-out period during which time Kristin Hersh, Bernard Georges and David Narcizo (the birthday boy!) mingled throughout the crowd meeting and greeting people. Well, Bernard and David managed to mingle -- Kristin just ended up at the head of some sort of silly receiving line and didn't have time to talk to many people before the sound check. There was a seemingly neverending supply of hummus, baba ganouj (or however the hell you spell that), falafel and Greek salad on a long table in the middle of the room, and the bar was open for business. We staked out a spot off to the side in the middle of the room by the mezzanine railing, and people-watched for a long time. It seemed like a lot of the people there were denizens of the throwingmusic.com message board, so there was a lot of net.bonding going on around us. It was rather amusing. There were kids running around too -- Kristin's were the only ones I figured as belonging to anyone specific. At one point a blonde woman walked past us with a baby on her hip, and a little while later Mike was able to make the connection that it was Tanya Donnelly (let's just say she hasn't lost her pregnancy weight yet :}). Speculation was rife that she was going to be the "surprise special guest" to open the Muses show that evening: rumors had ranged from Frank Black to the full Pixies to Kim Deal, but nobody knew who it was going to be. Around 3:00 the Muses sound check began, which meant those of us who didn't flee for some fresh air outside were subjected to The Snare Check, and The Bass Drum Check. (I'm not sure if the full band did a song in the check, as during the Bass Guitar Check I got paged from work and spent the next half hour on the pay phone upstairs. :P) Around 4:00 Kristin came on stage and did a 45-minute acoustic set. They had also opened up the merchandise table by this time, so I spent some time back there picking up the "Cleaner Light" single, Lakuna CD, and the special Gut Pageant t-shirt (whee). It was a nice set -- Kristin confessed that she had completely forgotten about this part of the day until she arrived, so she didn't have a set list. People just shouted out requests, and if she had an acoustic version of the song, she played it. I didn't note the exact set list, but songs I remember hearing are "Gazebo Tree", "The Cuckoo", "Houdini Blue", and "Your Ghost" (maybe Mike can fill in the gaps there?). After that they played the Lakuna CD, _Castle of Crime_. Lakuna is David Narcizo's project, and it's very trippy, Sunday evening-type stuff. Videos were made for the entire thing, and these were shown on a big screen set up on the stage. I wasn't too impressed by the videos -- seemingly disconnected strings of images that were essentially the same for every song -- but it was good to just sit on the floor and zone out for a while. woj and I had been out late the night before seeing Ellis Paul and Susan Werner (more on that later :), so I was pretty zonked. As 6:00 approached the place really began to buzz, as everyone who had gone out during the Lakuna interval to grab dinner or whatever came back in to stake out prime spots before the doors opened to the ticketholders for the concert-only portion of the day. Mike and woj recommended that I go up front, since there were lots of really tall people and otherwise I wouldn't be able to see a thing. That turned out to be an excellent plan. I ended up a couple rows of people back from the stage, and had a great view for most of the night. Around 6:00 someone came out on stage and started sound checking an acoustic guitar: the Surprise Special Guest, Bob Mould. I'm not a huge Bob Mould fan so I was ambivalent (though I was mighty impressed that he was there), but the guy standing next to me was having an intense religious experience. He was reacting much as I imagine I would have if Kate Bush had appeared on the stage. I was happy for him. :) Bob did a pretty good set. All of his songs tend to sound the same to me (guy shouting nasally over loudly strummed 12-string guitar), but I wasn't repelled. (Since Throwing Muses hold the distinction of having the Worst Opening Act Ever (Vibrolush), I tend to worry about their openers.) By this time the entire club was packed shoulder-to-nose, and I was very glad of my spot near the front. To a deafening cheer Throwing Muses appeared on stage and started into their set. I got this set list from the message board at throwingmusic.com, so any mistakes aren't mine (I'm still woefully ignorant of the actual titles of most Throwing Muses songs): Like A Dog Furious Shimmer The Field Shark Ellen West Bright Yellow Gun *Not Too Soon *Honeychain *Counting Backwards Pearl Snakeface Hazing Flood Carnival Wig Limbo *Tar Moochers *Two-Step (encore) Snailhead Cottonmouth Bea The asterisks denote the songs that TANYA DONNELLY PLAYED ON (!!!). It turns out that Bob Mould wasn't the only surprise of the evening. I thought the ovation was deafening when the band came out to start the set ... that was *nothing* like what happened when Tanya appeared on stage and strapped on her guitar. I didn't even notice at first that Fred Abong had also come out to play bass. (Kristin later said that Leslie Langston "sends her love", and would have been there except she was on vacation. Ack!) Suddenly I forgot how much my feet were killing me and how hungry and thirsty and hot I was. During the first two songs, which are of course Tanya lead vocals, I watched Kristin, standing off to the side playing guitar. I haven't seen anyone that totally happy in a *long* time. She had a little smile on her face, and it was amazing. She had earlier thanked us all for coming "and making us a band again", and I'm sure that having Tanya back playing some of the old songs was a dream come true for her as well as everyone else in the room. One of the really nice things about yesterday was the fact that all forms of recording were allowed: video, audio, and even flash photography. I took a lot of pictures, and I hope they came out (we'll see when I get them developed this week). I'll post whatever I can on my web page. I particularly hope the one of Kristin and Tanya hugging when she came on stage came out... But before any of you start e-mailing woj, I have to let you all know that the minidisc recorder is having problems, and we didn't even bother to bring it with us. :( I know there are tons of recordings out there, though - -- keep an eye on the message board at throwingmusic.com, because everyone's working out trades there already. (Must have copy. Yum.) So, in a nutshell, yesterday was an amazing day. My back will never be the same from standing up for 8 hours in totally bad shoes (I'm going to buy sneakers this afternoon, I'm getting too old for this stuff), but seeing "Throwing Muses Mach 1.5", as Kristin put it was well worth the price of admission, the drive, and the conditions in the club. Yow. +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 11:41:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Sue Trowbridge Subject: Re: MP3, CD RW, etc. On Sun, 7 May 2000, Dave Williamson wrote: > Frankly I found much of this thread bothersome. I am not addressing > this to those of you recording CDs at home (for your own use) that > include music you have in some way legitimately purchased, or music you > are sampling at the discretion of the artist. [...] > So when I see an entire thread devoted to telling people how to use > technology to steal, and consider how that is so contrary to the purpose > of the list that this exchange was carried out on, it disturbs me. Just thought I'd mention that one of the wonderful things about the MP3 "revolution" is that people have access to so much music that they would never otherwise have heard under the old distribution methods. It's possible to completely step outside the boundaries of the music biz and still find lots of great stuff to listen to. For instance, I have set up MP3.com pages for several of my friends. Here are a couple of them: http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/72/belle_da_gama.html http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/114/tris_mccall.html In the first case (Belle da Gama), there are no official CD releases; just a couple of CD-R's distributed to friends. In the second, Tris is selling his CD at cost -- only $5, which covers the manufacture and postage costs only. Obviously there are still a lot of folks out there hoping to make a living as performers, but today there are even more people do music for a hobby and just want to be heard. I think downloading and burning their tracks on CD is perfectly legitimate. Of course we all know that ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 11:52:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Sue Trowbridge Subject: Re: MP3, CD RW, etc. Oops, I hit the "send" button too soon, so part of this message got cut off!! Here's the whole thing: On Sun, 7 May 2000, Sue Trowbridge wrote: > On Sun, 7 May 2000, Dave Williamson wrote: > > > Frankly I found much of this thread bothersome. I am not addressing > > this to those of you recording CDs at home (for your own use) that > > include music you have in some way legitimately purchased, or music you > > are sampling at the discretion of the artist. > [...] > > So when I see an entire thread devoted to telling people how to use > > technology to steal, and consider how that is so contrary to the purpose > > of the list that this exchange was carried out on, it disturbs me. > > Just thought I'd mention that one of the wonderful things about the MP3 > "revolution" is that people have access to so much music that they would > never otherwise have heard under the old distribution methods. It's > possible to completely step outside the boundaries of the music biz and > still find lots of great stuff to listen to. For instance, I have set up > MP3.com pages for several of my friends. Here are a couple of them: > > http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/72/belle_da_gama.html > http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/114/tris_mccall.html > > In the first case (Belle da Gama), there are no official CD releases; > just a couple of CD-R's distributed to friends. In the second, Tris is > selling his CD at cost -- only $5, which covers the manufacture and > postage costs only. Obviously there are still a lot of folks out there > hoping to make a living as performers, but today there are even more > people do music for a hobby and just want to be heard. I think downloading > and burning their tracks on CD is perfectly legitimate. Of course we all > know that ...going on Napster and downloading and burning a bunch of songs that are commercially available is wrong. But at the same time, I sort of agree with Neal that there is definitely a "gray area" involving used CDs, which I buy quite a few of. A lot of the CDs sold as "used" are actually promos (these usually have a hole punched through the UPC code) which have been sold to the store by music critics, radio stations, etc. I guess the scary thing about Napster and its ilk, though, is that there's a potentially infinite number of times the songs can be downloaded, whereas the number of promos and used CDs available is limited. If I go to Amoeba Records looking for a used copy of the new N'Sync CD, I may not be able to find one, but I'm sure I could download the entire thing on Napster right this instant. (Not that I'd actually *want* to, you understand...) - --Sue Trowbridge * albany, california trow@slip.net * http://www.interbridge.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 13:44:36 -0700 (PDT) From: "Scott S. Zimmerman" Subject: Re: MP3, CD RW, etc. > A lot of the CDs sold as "used" are actually promos > (these usually have a hole punched through the UPC code) which have been > sold to the store by music critics, radio stations, etc. That's possibly the sweetest plum for used record stores! Music critics and radio stations might sell *some* of those promos to stores, but certainly a good portion of those promos were sent directly to stores by distributors, so it works out to pure profit! And... certainly not all promos are marked as such, so no doubt a lot of promos are being sold new.... I never have the heart to punch holes in promos I send out and neither do most indie small labels.... For fun: if you have a label or are a musician distributing your own stuff--punch holes in one spot for discs you sell to music critics, in another spot for ones you send to radio, and in another spot for distributor-promos. Then when you find in horror that the disc is being sold used somewhere you can kinda figure out where it came from... [or if you're really distrustful put serial numbers on every one! ;) ] Scott ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 20:43:30 -0400 From: "Foghorn J Fornorn" Subject: ID yet another commercial song? OK, who does the song under the VW Vapor (limited edition Beetle) commercial? Starts out with a bassoon (I think), then becomes a more alt-rock tune, female vocals. I like it. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 21:28:08 -0400 From: Jeffrey Burka Subject: Stephin Merritt a cool article can be found (at least for the next two weeks, 'til it's moved to the pay-for-view archives) at: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A19925-2000May6.html jeff ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 20:58:17 -0500 From: Kim Justice Subject: MP3, CD-R, & c., redux There was a comment earlier today, indicating that the poster was disturbed that we were be talking about technology that's used for piracy. Maybe I missed part of the thread, but all I remember replying to in regard to MP3 encoding and CD-R was stuff having to do with an independent artist like myself who wanted to upload to MP3.com or burn a CD of their work as part of an effort at self-promotion. However, IMHO: 1. The digital genie's out of the bottle and it's going to be hard to put it back in again. 2. "Music is not the music industry." -- Keith Jarrett 3. All this affordable digital technology is a great boon for indie artists. 4. Re Metallica vs. Napster: If I found out tomorrow that 350,000 people downloaded pirated copies of my songs over a weekend, I'd faint with joy. It's especially amusing given that they encouraged bootlegging of their early work to spread the word. 5. Scarcity increases value; artists and labels are going to have to figure out how to make money in other ways, now that the bitstreams that represent their recorded works are no longer difficult or expensive to reproduce. In a way, the Rolling Stones and other acts already realize that it is the event of performance and things like t-shirts and trinkets that have value, not their latest CD. For good or ill, I suspect that the music that gets paid for will have attributes that cannot be carried via digital media; for example, fancy artwork and collector cases and such will become more prevalent for selling CDs. 6. Over time, I think our culture will rediscover the value of amateur performance. Art has become too professional and has too much monetary value attached to it. kj - -- justicek@home.com (Kim Justice) Free kj music at http://www.mp3.com/kimjustice "There can always be new beginnings, even for people like us." -- Susan Ivanova ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 22:48:16 EDT From: RocketsTail@aol.com Subject: Aimee Mann "Bachelor #2" Yesterday I went out and bought Aimee Mann's new CD "Bachelor #2" (I was surprised to be able to find it so easily)...I have to say this is a BRILLIANT piece of work and I definatly recommend everyone running and out and getting a copy. Aimee's song writing skills just keep improving and I can't say enough good things about this album!!!!! -Eric so life turns up empty and you're so dissatisfied, who are you blaming this time? don't you know? ~Cyndi Lauper ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 23:44:26 EDT From: RocketsTail@aol.com Subject: Quote from Chantal Kreviazuk "I don't know where I fit in with Christine Ag...whatever and the Backstreet children" ~Chantal Kreviazuk talking about whether her new album will succeed in the United States. Sorry I found that true and funny lol. -Eric so life turns up empty and you're so dissatisfied, who are you blaming this time? don't you know? ~Cyndi Lauper ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V6 #128 **************************