From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V6 #14 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Sunday, January 16 2000 Volume 06 : Number 014 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Today's your birthday, friend... [Mike Matthews ] RACHAEL SAGE @ MAKOR 1/20/00. [MPressinfo@aol.com] Re: fa.music.ecto [Leon van Stuivenberg ] Re: fa.music.ecto [Neile Graham ] Re: fa.music.ecto [Bill ] And now, for some ecto content [Bill ] Re: fa.music.ecto [Bill Adler ] new acquisitions [meredith ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 03:00:04 -0500 (EST) From: Mike Matthews Subject: Today's your birthday, friend... i*i*i*i*i*i i*i*i*i*i*i *************** *****HAPPY********* **************BIRTHDAY********* *************************************************** *************************************************************************** ****************** Chris Sampson (chris@neuron.uchc.edu) ****************** *************************************************************************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Chris Sampson Wed January 15 1964 Void where prohibited Dennis G Parslow Fri January 17 1964 ...of the Saint Ross Alford Thu January 17 1957 Positive Nancy Whitney Mon January 19 1959 slippery when wet Sarah Noelle Pratt Ferguson Tue January 20 1970 Seanympf-Aquarius David Beery Tue January 20 1976 drum Terry Partis Sun January 22 1933 Rocker Sarah McLachlan Sun January 28 1968 Aquarius Ilka Heber Mon February 01 1965 Mermaid Bob Lovejoy Sun February 02 1947 Aquarius Diane Burke Sat February 02 1963 slow children Timothy S. Devine Tue February 03 1970 Aquarius Stephen Thomas Fri February 04 1966 Aquarius Doug Burks Tue February 14 1956 Blank - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 04:21:02 EST From: MPressinfo@aol.com Subject: RACHAEL SAGE @ MAKOR 1/20/00. RACHAEL SAGE will be appearing @ M A K O R: THURSDAY JANUARAY 20TH, 9-10:30PM (one long set) 35 West 67th St. (between CPW & Columbus Ave.). ..."NY's newest & most innovative music venue" $8 Cover...call Makor @ 212.601.1000 for info/reservations. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Featuring: Mike Visceglia (bass), Ben Butler (guitars), David Rosenberg (Drums) This should be an exciting show - new tunes, new atmosphere, & plenty of space to roam...and they actually have a grand piano! Hope to see y'all there!!!!!! Peace & xoxoxo - The Folks @ MPress Records * * * * * * * * * * * www.rachaelsage.com MPress Records 61 E. 8th St. Box 109 NYC 10003 * To be removed from this list, please reply w/ "remove" in the header. Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 10:33:01 +0100 From: Leon van Stuivenberg Subject: Re: fa.music.ecto ReHi, Steve VanDevender wrote: > You're denying a group of people access to the list that they previously They're not denied access to the list; they can subscribe to the actual thing via email. Okay, that would deny people who don't have an email account.. As far as I understand it, the gateway is one-way. If so, why isn't it bidirectional? "While ecto developed as a forum in which to discuss Happy and her music,..." Discussion is hard when one can't reply to the list. I'm not saying the gateway should work both ways; I'm saying, choose one format. Btw, while fa.music.ecto might be searchable through deja, that doesn't mean that an interested reader can access the newsgroup. E.g. my isp doesn't carry fa.*. > This list won't feel any different whether the newsgroup gateway > continues to exist or not; you just may have chosen to feel differently > about the list now that you know that the newsgroup gateway exists. For those who can actually choose how to feel it's probably easier to accept (in this case) the gateway than those who feel the way they do as a result of the knowledge they acquire. > And trust me, I know about spam and spammers; I administer email systems Personally, spam is not the reason why I'm objecting against the gateway; it's the irresolution of having a mixture of distribution formats. meredith wrote: > Ah, but what is the difference between reading the archive and reading the > list through the gateway afaik, a usenet group is not an archive but a discussion forum. Sure, people can start up their own discussions in the newsgroup, but if people have something to contribute, why not share it with ecto as a whole. In the end, contributing members are what makes the community work. Lurking is fine, i do it a lot myself, but if the newsgroup is actually used for sth else than an archive, it's a pity there's nothing of it pouring back into ecto. > (other than the fact that reading the archive > doesn't allow for threading and other means for easy reading)? An archive can be made as easily readable as a newsgroup. That a usenet reader provides easy reading virtually for free, and that setting up a nicely formatted archive takes more effort is another thing. > The fa.music.ecto gateway has existed for almost as long as the mailing > list has. Has this mailing list ever felt like a USENET group? ok, let me repeat what i wrote earlier: "a mailing list has a fundamental different 'feel' to it than a newsgroup". Well, okay, it's probably not 'fundamental' anymore with all the convergence that's going on. But I didn't say ecto felt like a usenet group. I do think that forwarding email from a place where music is discussed is sth different than forwarding email from announcements lists like e.g. bugtraq. > because you know about the gateway today and you didn't before? Nothing at > all has changed. But something _has_ changed. People on ecto who didn't know about the gateway now know. Shouldn't they have been aware in the first place that any mailing list can have forwarding subscribers and that their posts can appear anywhere on the internet? Perhaps. Is it what they expect from a mailing list? Or should it be made clear in the welcoming email that this gateway exists? As pointed out, it seems to have existed almost as long as the list itself. If it's such an integral part of ecto, i think it would be fair to at least mention it in there. woj wrote: > (it is interesting to see how the lines are drawn. those who have supported > the status quo tend to be long-time subscribers while those who don't tend > to be more recent recruits. both sides have good reasons too.) Interesting observation (being a newbi (to ecto) myself, i didn't notice it). Would it still be the same if instead of long-time subscribers you'd choose long-time internet users? anna maria stjdrnell wrote: > dejanews. I wouldnt have found ecto without it and I > dont get spammed to hell either. The advantages Do you mean you wouldn't have found ecto at all or not through the newsgroup but perhaps some other way? Ken Descoteaux wrote: > quo as well. Mailing list exploders, mailing list gateways, and such things > are facts of life and have been since mailing lists were invented. No one What is technically possible is not always what is desirable. What is desirable is not always enforceable. I don't think an attitude of 'accept things the way they are; they're out of your control anyway' is going to do much good, but that's a different discussion. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 11:25:13 -0800 From: Neile Graham Subject: Re: fa.music.ecto The funny thing is that I have mentioned this newsgroup on at least one occasion, possibly more, and no one has ever commented on it. - --Neile - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Neile Graham ...... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ....... neile@sff.net Les Semaines: A Weekly Journal . http://www.sff.net/people/neile/semaines The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music ....... http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 11:39:40 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Subject: Re: fa.music.ecto On Sat, 15 Jan 2000, Neile Graham wrote: > The funny thing is that I have mentioned this newsgroup on at least one > occasion, possibly more, and no one has ever commented on it. That's perhaps because people had not been affected by it; fa.music.ecto only became a concern to me when I realized that everything I type here is seen by the usenet community at large. And, no matter how big the ecto mailing list's membership is, I still consider it a closed circle. Moreover, I have much more respect for the people whose postings I see on ecto, than the people whose postings I see on usenet, generally speaking. As has been echoed by others, my concern is not so much one of spam, but rather one of my postings being circulated in the usenet world at large, a world that I chose long ago not to participate in due to, generally speaking, its low intellectual content, its high signal-to-noise ratio, and its overall disrespect for the opinions of others (at least in the newsgroups which I happen to participate in at the time). - - Bill G. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 11:45:25 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Subject: And now, for some ecto content New buys (every time I go away I come home with new discs... it's just a little tradition of mine...): IRENE FARRERA - SOY DE TI thanks, Joann!! (it was you, right?) MORCHEEBA - WHO CAN YOU TRUST PLUS BEATS AND B-SIDES yes! yessss!! oh, yes!!! ISRAEL KAMAKAWIWO'OLE you gotta here his medley performance of Somewhere Over The Rainbow / What A Wonderful World (which appeared at the end of the movie Meet Joe Black) ANTONIO CARLOS JOBIM great jazz from Brazil of which I should know more about and have more of - - Bill G. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 15:47:06 -0500 From: Bill Adler Subject: Re: fa.music.ecto I would like to echo Bill's sentiments. Although there's no such thing as a completely private list --you have to assume that any message you send to even the most closed list could become public-- there's a big difference between a list and a newsgroup. It appears that most email lists don't have usenet mirrors, and for good reason: It's easy for cranks and nuts to read usenet messages. With a simple newsgroup searcher anybody in the world can put together a list of all the messages sent by any member of the Ecto list. It only takes a few seconds. Certainly having a usenet mirror makes it easy for people to quickly read our comments on Happy, Rachel Sage or other musicians, but it also makes it just as easy to compile a dossier of our personal music tastes. That's what I don't like about a usenet mirror. Posts to the usenet mirror appear within a day, as far as I can tell. So when you send a message to the Ecto list that says, "I'll be away at the Susan McKeown concert next weekend," you're letting the world at large know where you're going to be -- or more importantly, where you're *not* going to be, namely at home. Personally, I feel uncomfortable announcing that I'm going to be away, when I know that anybody can find out. (Having a searchable archive on the Ecto site is different from having our messages appear instantly in a newsgroup.) So I weigh in on severing the link between the Ecto list and newsgroup readers. - --Bill n.p. The Best of Orleans, Dance WIth Me At 11:39 AM 1/15/00 -0800, you wrote: >On Sat, 15 Jan 2000, Neile Graham wrote: > > > The funny thing is that I have mentioned this newsgroup on at least one > > occasion, possibly more, and no one has ever commented on it. > >That's perhaps because people had not been affected by it; fa.music.ecto >only became a concern to me when I realized that everything I type here is >seen by the usenet community at large. And, no matter how big the ecto >mailing list's membership is, I still consider it a closed circle. >Moreover, I have much more respect for the people whose postings I see on >ecto, than the people whose postings I see on usenet, generally speaking. > >As has been echoed by others, my concern is not so much one of spam, but >rather one of my postings being circulated in the usenet world at large, a >world that I chose long ago not to participate in due to, generally >speaking, its low intellectual content, its high signal-to-noise ratio, >and its overall disrespect for the opinions of others (at least in the >newsgroups which I happen to participate in at the time). > >- Bill G. > Bill Adler www.adlerbooks.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2000 00:20:39 -0500 From: meredith Subject: new acquisitions Hi! To actually bring the conversation back to music, I've received a few CDs in the mail in the past week or so. - -- _Magnolia_ Soundtrack: Yummy. Aimee Mann is a goddess. :) Can't wait to see the movie! - -- PJ Harvey, _To Bring You My Love_ and _Is This Desire?_ Believe it or not, woj and I hadn't gotten round to picking either of these up until now. My boss got me a CDNow gift certificate for Christmas, so I figured it was about time. I like _Is This Desire_ much better than the other one, on one listen apiece. But at least I'm able to listen to them all the way through - -- I haven't been able to get through an entire PJ Harvey disc before this. - -- Richard Shindell, _Somewhere Near Paterson_ On one listen, it's definitely better than his last release, but I don't think anything will ever surpass _Sparrows Point_ in my heart. It's got more of his trademark hit-you-in-the-gut songwriting, though, and Dar Williams and Lucy Kaplansky provide lovely harmonies in all the right places, as usual. Richard even performs a Dar song, "Calling The Moon" (which I don't believe she's recorded yet herself). Any album that contains a piece entitled "Merritt Parkway, 2 am" is automatically going to get points in my book, anyway. :) Good stuff, as usual. Tomorrow night I'll be working the door for the Peter Mulvey show at the Acoustic Cafe. It promises to be great -- he's just an amazing guitarist. Anyone in the area should try to come on down. Show starts at 7 pm. I also have it on pretty good authority that there are going to be some PA, NY and CT dates on Veda Hille's tour page the next time she updates it... Finally, I just have to respond to this: Anna Maria noted: >Oh just saw The Bitter Suite episode of Xena..that was >quite wild. Lucy Lawless sure can sing. Can't she, though? She apparently has pretty good taste in music, too (Sarah McLachlan, Natalie Merchant, Lyle Lovett) so one holds out hope that eventually she'll put out an album of good material, once this Xena gig is over. (Next week's episode is supposedly another musical, so hopefully we'll get to hear her sing again!) In fact, I think I'm going to go watch this week's Xena ep again. It was really good. :) +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V6 #14 *************************