From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V6 #12 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Friday, January 14 2000 Volume 06 : Number 012 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: fa.music.ecto [Andrew Fries ] Weird cover versions [anna maria "stjärnell" ] Re: fa.music.ecto [Bill Adler ] Re: fa.music.ecto [moseley@tatrc.org] Re: fa.music.ecto [Bill ] Re: fa.music.ecto [Leon van Stuivenberg ] Re: fa.music.ecto [Steve VanDevender ] Re: fa.music.ecto [Joseph Zitt ] Gray Code (Joe Zitt) in DC Friday night [Joseph Zitt ] Re: fa.music.ecto [Steve VanDevender ] Mary Lydia Ryan on KUOW, Seattle [Neile Graham ] Re: Message to Eva Cassidy fans [JavaHo@aol.com] Fiona Apple US (and one Canadian) tour dates [Michael Curry ] Re: fa.music.ecto [fartachu ] COWBOYJUNKIES tour dates [neal copperman ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 20:44:00 +1100 From: Andrew Fries Subject: Re: fa.music.ecto dan wrote: >Which brings up another question--how do the people opposed to the >newsgroup gateway feel about a searchable list archive? I accept that risk because I really want Ecto to have the archives in some form. Once we get that search engine (another subtle hint from Andrew) they will be a very valuable resource... But to be honest, I'd prefer if that archive was password protected. Am I paranoid? Well, perhaps I am. But that's only because I know they are after me. >Are the two substantively different? They are, in that a lot more people know about deja.news than smoe.org/lists/ecto. and this from meredith: >We've been accused of exclusivity enough in the past with things the way >they are -- why close ourselves off and prevent people from finding us? OK then, I'll come out and say it: A dose of exclusivity is in fact a good thing. And I'll support my argument by pointing to wide open forums of Usenet: I just paid a visit to what I'd consider our close relative, alt.music.alternative.female - of the 50 posts I scanned at least 10 were ads while the longest thread was "Grrl rock sucks". I didn't read the messages themselves, so it is possible this title hides one of the most intelligent, passionate and thought-provoking discussions ever seen in public... but I doubt it somehow. On the other hand, one Usenet forum does offer pretty interesting threads now and then, while remaining virtually spam-free: alt.gothic. Why? Because the regulars there enforce strict standards. How? By cancelling spam, naturally, but also by mercilessly hazing all newbies, flaming webTV users, HTML posters and in general everyone who meets with their disapproval. As their FAQ warns, "Some people on alt.gothic bite back. Cross them at your peril as they are subtle and quick to anger". This approach actually works, but is it how we want to live? I wouldn't like Ecto to become like either of those newsgroups. So maybe it isn't so bad if finding us requires just a little effort? Maybe it isn't neccessary for the whole world to join in? Small is beautiful, you know... - ------------------------------------------------------ "Circus dogs jump when the trainer cracks the whip, but the really well-trained dog is the one that turns somersaults when there is no whip." --George Orwell - ------ http://www.zip.com.au/~afries/hall.html ------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 05:04:18 -0800 (PST) From: anna maria "stjärnell" Subject: Weird cover versions Hi.. Has anyone else noticed the abundance of weird cover versions out there last year? Stina Nordenstam's weird takes on famous songs for instance..A bluegrass version of Purple rain..Prince himself doing Everyday is a Winding Road.David Gray's Dylanesque take on Soft Cell's Say Hello, wave Goodbye. Swedish singer Klintberg covering George Michael's Praying for time..Swedish alt-country rockers Intercooler covering Toni Braxton's Unbreak my Heart. Final swedish example will be ska-band Monster doing Lauryn Hill's Ex-factor nicely. My vote for best cover of last year goes to David Gray I think. Check him at www.davidgray.com. Anna Maria np-Margot Smith-Sleeping with the Lion __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 08:04:00 -0500 From: Bill Adler Subject: Re: fa.music.ecto Here are a few reasons to close the Usenet gateway. I'm personally not keen on making a post that says, "I'm going to be out of town next week at a concert," and have the world aware that nobody's going to be home. Perhaps it's the ex-New Yorker in me, but I just don't like advertising that I'm going to be away. There are people who use the Internet to find out when somebody's not going to be in. Another reason I think the gateway should be closed is that I once received a strange email from somebody who wasn't on the list. A newsgroup reader in another country had read a post of mine about a particular musician. He asked if I would make an illegal copy of that CD for him. I was very taken aback by that. Lists, because they are closed, create an openness and a sense of community that newsgroups just don't have. I wouldn't mind a searchable archive of our messages, but I'm not keen on the idea of all my posts being available to anybody who wants them, or happens to stumble on them. My messages are for my friends on Ecto, not the world at large. - --Bill n.p. Raven, A Soft Wind Blows At 08:44 PM 1/13/00 +1100, you wrote: >dan wrote: > > >Which brings up another question--how do the people opposed to the > >newsgroup gateway feel about a searchable list archive? >I accept that risk because I really want Ecto to have the archives in >some form. Once we get that search engine (another subtle hint from >Andrew) they will be a very valuable resource... But to be honest, I'd >prefer if that archive was password protected. Am I paranoid? Well, >perhaps I am. But that's only because I know they are after me. > > >Are the two substantively different? >They are, in that a lot more people know about deja.news than >smoe.org/lists/ecto. > >and this from meredith: > >We've been accused of exclusivity enough in the past with things the way > >they are -- why close ourselves off and prevent people from finding us? Bill Adler www.adlerbooks.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:37:59 -0700 From: moseley@tatrc.org Subject: Re: fa.music.ecto I agree with everything Bill said, and would also like to add that I was shocked to see all my past messages available via deja.com several months after I joined this list. If nothing changes, and the Usenet gateway stays open for this list, at the very least it should be made very clear from now on to new subscribers to the list that their postings are going out worldwide. Don't assume that they know this, as obviously I and others had no idea. Patrick >Here are a few reasons to close the Usenet gateway. > >I'm personally not keen on making a post that says, "I'm going to be out of >town next week at a concert," and have the world aware that nobody's going >to be home. Perhaps it's the ex-New Yorker in me, but I just don't like >advertising that I'm going to be away. There are people who use the >Internet to find out when somebody's not going to be in. > >Another reason I think the gateway should be closed is that I once received >a strange email from somebody who wasn't on the list. A newsgroup reader >in another country had read a post of mine about a particular musician. He >asked if I would make an illegal copy of that CD for him. I was very taken >aback by that. > >Lists, because they are closed, create an openness and a sense of community >that newsgroups just don't have. > >I wouldn't mind a searchable archive of our messages, but I'm not keen on >the idea of all my posts being available to anybody who wants them, or >happens to stumble on them. My messages are for my friends on Ecto, not >the world at large. > >--Bill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 08:33:18 -0800 (PST) From: Bill Subject: Re: fa.music.ecto On Thu, 13 Jan 2000, Bill Adler wrote: > My messages are for my friends on Ecto, not > the world at large. Exactly! - - Bill G. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 19:29:13 +0100 From: Leon van Stuivenberg Subject: Re: fa.music.ecto Hi, Having ecto piped to a newsgroup is like having diner with a group of friends, a mic on the table, and the PA hanging outside the restaurant, blurting out the conversation over a couple of blocks. > We've been accused of exclusivity enough in the past with things the way > they are -- why close ourselves off and prevent people from finding us? > | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | so i agree with veda ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:33:09 -0800 (PST) From: Steve VanDevender Subject: Re: fa.music.ecto Bill writes: > On Thu, 13 Jan 2000, Bill Adler wrote: > > > My messages are for my friends on Ecto, not > > the world at large. > > Exactly! I have a rather different philosophy on this, which is that once I've sent a message and it leaves my system, I've given up any control I had over it or any expectation that it will remain private. Perhaps this is because as a system administrator I'm intimately familiar with how email works and because I've been using email for a long time and been through a few tribulations of my own. I agree that people should understand that if they send a message to ecto it may appear in places they don't expect and be read by people other than list subscribers. But closing newsgroup gateways or the public archives won't guarantee that your email will stay only within the list. Anyone on ecto might forward an item of list mail anywhere, usually with the best intentions; a malfunctioning system might put your mail where someone else can read it; and so on. So I don't believe we need to close the newsgroup gateway -- and all of you who are clamoring to do so should really take into account the wishes of the people who are reading ecto via that gateway, because in a sense you're kicking them off the list (at least temporarily) by doing so. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 14:09:26 -0500 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: fa.music.ecto On Thu, Jan 13, 2000 at 07:29:13PM +0100, Leon van Stuivenberg wrote: > Hi, > > Having ecto piped to a newsgroup is like having diner with a group of friends, a mic on the table, and the PA hanging outside the restaurant, blurting out the conversation > over a couple of blocks. I think I've performed that piece :-) - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Shekhinah: The Presence http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 14:11:43 -0500 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Gray Code (Joe Zitt) in DC Friday night I don't recall whether I've posted this one yet, so this is either a late announcement or a reminder :-) It'll be mostly the material we performed at Galaxy Hut, but audible this time *grin* ***** For immediate Release Gray Code: featuring Comma with Brian Fending and Jonathan Matis at MOCA-DC: The Museum of Contemporary Art in Washington, DC 1054 31st Street, Gallery Courtyard Washington, DC 20007 Friday, January 14th - 8:00 pm, free admission The closing reception for MOCA-DC's current exhibition will feature experimental improvised music by Gray Code: an ensemble featuring the trio Comma, with Jonathan Matis and Brian Fending joining them on guitar and percussion, respectively. Comma is an ensemble specializing in music that involves improvisation and mindfulness practices. Their repertory includes newly composed musical works, performance poetry, chant from various early traditions, and group improvisations. Techniques include many extended uses of the voice as well as electro-acoustic environments. The performance will feature compositions which combine predetermined structures and group improvising in various ways, as well as totally spontaneous compositions featuring the whole ensemble. Metatron Press is proud to announce the release of the first three recordings in a new series. CDs will be available at the performance, or directly from Metatron Press: * "Even the Widest Aardvark Outdreams the Gnu" by Zitt/Matis featuring Comma member Joe Zitt and guitarist Jonathan Matis * A self-titled release by Gusty Winds May Exist, a shakuhachi/recorder duo featuring Nancy Beckman and Comma member Tom Bickley * "Animals: electronikazoomusique", a collection of electronic works and mixes by Comma member Matthew Ross Davis. * COMING SOON (February 2000): "Death Slug 2000", guitar duos by Tyondai Braxton and Jonathan Matis For more information about the artists, please see: http://www.metatronpress.com/artists/graycode http://www.metatronpress.com/artists/zittmatis http://www.artswire.org/comma http://www.metatronpress.com/artists/gwme http://www.metatronpress.com/artists/mrd For information about MOCA-DC, see http://www.dc.net/vertical/MOCA.html or call 202-342-6230 For more information please contact Jonathan Matis j_matis@yahoo.com 202 296-5101 - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Shekhinah: The Presence http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 19:57:38 +0100 From: Leon van Stuivenberg Subject: Re: fa.music.ecto Hi (once more) > you who are clamoring to do so should really take into account the > wishes of the people who are reading ecto via that gateway, because in a > sense you're kicking them off the list (at least temporarily) by doing > so. Nobody is kicked off, since there're not on the list in the first place. If they can't handle the traffic, they can scan the archive. Although in the end it's all bits and bytes flying around, which are accessable from mostly anywhere anyway (if you can find them), whether the gateway is there or not, a mailing list has a fundamental different 'feel' to it than a newsgroup, imo. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 11:11:06 -0800 (PST) From: Steve VanDevender Subject: Re: fa.music.ecto Leon van Stuivenberg writes: > Nobody is kicked off, since there're not on the list in the first > place. If they can't handle the traffic, they can scan the archive. You're denying a group of people access to the list that they previously had, and for reasons that I consider to be rather arbitrary. > Although in the end it's all bits and bytes flying around, which are > accessable from mostly anywhere anyway (if you can find them), > whether the gateway is there or not, a mailing list has a fundamental > different 'feel' to it than a newsgroup, imo. This list won't feel any different whether the newsgroup gateway continues to exist or not; you just may have chosen to feel differently about the list now that you know that the newsgroup gateway exists. Basically, whenever you post to this list, your posting will be read by a lot of people who you don't know and have no control over, and that will still be true if the newsgroup gateway is removed. No one has shown that the newsgroup gateway is a concrete threat, and many people have testified to its benefits. And trust me, I know about spam and spammers; I administer email systems that serve over 30,000 people collectively. But I don't believe in trying to avoid it by becoming ever more secretive and restrictive. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 16:04:43 -0800 From: Neile Graham Subject: Mary Lydia Ryan on KUOW, Seattle Mary Lydia Ryan news for those in the Seattle area. - --Neile >Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:56:36 -0800 >From: "Mary Lydia Ryan" >To: "Neile Graham" >Subject: Mary Lydia Ryan on KUOW! >MIME-Version: 1.0 > >Hi Neile: > >Just confirmed... > >In anticipation of my show this weekend at the Paradox, I will be doing an >interview tomorrow (Friday) morning on KUOW, 94.9 FM at 10:30 a.m. I will >be on for approximately 20 minutes, and should be able to play 3 songs. >Tune in! > >-Mary Lydia Ryan >http://www.marylydiaryan.com > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Neile Graham ...... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ....... neile@sff.net Les Semaines: A Weekly Journal . http://www.sff.net/people/neile/semaines The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music ....... http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 19:19:35 EST From: JavaHo@aol.com Subject: Re: Message to Eva Cassidy fans Eva had the most lovely voice, and I, for one, would love to hear more of it. "Songbird" is the only release I've found. I'll definitely be checking out the website. Cheers...Lisa PS...the gateway discussions have been very interesting. Seems like everytime I read a well-written opinion one way or the other I find myself agreeing and changing my opinion. Oddly, the thing that creeped me out the most was when someone mentioned receiving an e-mail from an artist whose show had been lacking in sound quality. The idea of an artist, especially one I like, read something less than glowing that I may have written makes me a little uneasy. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 19:24:56 -0500 From: Michael Curry Subject: Fiona Apple US (and one Canadian) tour dates I spotted a newspaper ad for my local venue (Oakdale) going on sale this Saturday at 9:00am, so I grabbed the rest of these dates from Fiona's official web site... 2-24-2000 Wallingford, CT OAKDALE THEATRE 2-25-2000 Boston, MA ORPHEUM THEATRE 2-26-2000 Rochester, NY UNIVERSITY OF ROCHESTER, PALESTRA 2-28-2000 Wilkes-Barre, PA F.M. KIRBY CENTER, F.M. KIRBY CENTER 2-29-2000 New York, NY ROSELAND 3-2-2000 Albany, NY PALACE THEATRE 3-3-2000 Upper Darby, PA TOWER THEATRE 3-4-2000 Washington, DC 9:30 CLUB 3-6-2000 Pittsburgh, PA AJ PALUMBO CENTER 3-7-2000 Cleveland, OH DRAFT HOUSE TAVERN & MUSIC HALL 3-9-2000 Cincinnati, OH TAFT THEATRE 3-10-2000 Detroit, MI STATE THEATRE 3-11-2000 Chicago, IL RIVIERA THEATRE 3-13-2000 Milwaukee, WI RIVERSIDE THEATRE 3-16-2000 Denver, CO FILLMORE AUDITORIUM 3-18-2000 Seattle, WA PARAMOUNT BALLROOM 3-19-2000 Vancouver, Canada ORPHEUM THEATRE 3-20-2000 Portland, OR ARLENE SCHNITZER CONCERT HALL 3-22-2000 San Francisco, CA THE WARFIELD Michael np: Sarah Slean -- Blue Parade nr: nothing ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 13:47:30 -0800 From: stunning@ripco.com Subject: Susan Voelz in San Francisco Susan Voelz has left the blustery snowy Chicago for 6 weeks and has settled into her cozy hotel room in San Francisco. She's in the play "The Irish and How They Got That Way". She plays the violin, naturally. I'm not sure what theatre she's at but I'm sure it's listed in the papers there. Check her out, check-check her out! Thomas Dunning Brown Star Records Chicago The Kate Bush tribute CD is here! I WANNA BE KATE: The Songs of Kate Bush http://www.ripco.com/~stunning/kate VISIT THE WEBSITE! http://www.baltimores.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 21:48:26 -0500 From: meredith Subject: Re: fa.music.ecto Hi! leon noted: >Nobody is kicked off, since there're not on the list in the first place. If they can't handle the traffic, they can scan the archive. Ah, but what is the difference between reading the archive and reading the list through the gateway (other than the fact that reading the archive doesn't allow for threading and other means for easy reading)? If you do a search on "Veda Hille", a post of mine to ecto from the list archive usually shows up in the listing before either her official web page or my Trajectory page. (FWIW, I've never seen an ecto post archived through deja news on a similar search.) If you're going to close off the gateway you might as well delete the archives too, and that would just be bad. >Although in the end it's all bits and bytes flying around, which are accessable from mostly anywhere anyway (if you can find them), whether the gateway is there or not, a >mailing list has a fundamental different 'feel' to it than a newsgroup, imo. The fa.music.ecto gateway has existed for almost as long as the mailing list has. Has this mailing list ever felt like a USENET group? (Well, okay, there have been a few incidents, but even then we were all keeping it in the family, so to speak. :) The list is set up not to allow spam to be posted to the list; and if there have been trolls through here, they have been few and far between, and have been convinced to leave quickly enough. What's going to suddenly flood ecto with the detritus of USENET, just because you know about the gateway today and you didn't before? Nothing at all has changed. Lisa commented: >Oddly, the thing that creeped me out the most was when >someone mentioned receiving an e-mail from an artist whose show had been >lacking in sound quality. The idea of an artist, especially one I like, read >something less than glowing that I may have written makes me a little uneasy. Why? Are you afraid of someone knowing your honest opinion? Constructive criticism is just that, and most of the artists I know appreciate it when it comes, particularly when it comes from a fan, because that way they know it's coming from the right place. Now, if I'd said in my post that "Rickard Westman is a funny-looking dork" I'd have a right to feel weird about knowing he read it ... but I was just making a comment about the sound quality in the venue that he ended up wholeheartedly agreeing with. I know most musical artists don't want to join mailing lists or other groups where people discuss their music, for precisely the reason that they don't want the list members censoring themselves because they're afraid to say something negative. But if you're constructive in your opinions, I think most artists have strong enough skins to be able to deal with it. (Heck, they'd better!) Anyway. Hopefully woj will come to a final decision about this gateway thing soon, so we can go back to discussing music et al. around here again... +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 23:09:48 -0500 From: fartachu Subject: Re: fa.music.ecto when we last left our heroes, meredith exclaimed: >Anyway. Hopefully woj will come to a final decision about this gateway >thing soon, so we can go back to discussing music et al. around here again... me? make a decision? hah! why do you think i tossed the question out to the list at large? ;) unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any consensus. (it is interesting to see how the lines are drawn. those who have supported the status quo tend to be long-time subscribers while those who don't tend to be more recent recruits. both sides have good reasons too.) woj n.p. kristin hersh ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 23:57:05 -0500 From: neal copperman Subject: COWBOYJUNKIES tour dates >From: "Cowboy Junkies" >To: >Subject: COWBOYJUNKIES >Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 15:25:50 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-Priority: 3 (Normal) >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 >Importance: Normal > >Junk Mail 01 13 00 > >Hi everyone. Winter Waltz Tour 2000 is about to get underway. We will be >playing shows throughout February and we hope that each of you can catch us >somewhere along the road. > >Also, our on-line store attached to our web site ( will (hopefully) be >opening in the next couple of weeks. Check it out if you get a chance. If >you haven't checked out Pete's Scattered Dog Press (in the Exclusives >section) then do so, it's good for a few laughs. And any day now, Margo >will also be posting a new chapter of Margo's Photo Album (also located in >the Exclusives section). > >Here are the tour dates so far. More will be announced in the next week or >so and will be posted on our site at: > > >Hope to see you out there. > >Margo, Michael, Peter and Alan > >Winter Waltz 2000 > >Feb 2 Ann Arbor, MI - Michigan Theater >Feb 3 Kalamazoo, MI - State Theater Kalamazoo >Feb 4 Chicago, IL - Park West >Feb 5 Milwaukee, WI - Rave >Feb 7 Minneapolis, MN - Guthrie Theater >Feb 9 Des Moines, IO - Hoyt Sherman Auditorium >Feb 10 Kansas City, MO - Beaumont >Feb 11 Columbia, MO - Blue Note >Feb 12 St. Louis, MO - Mississippi Nights >Feb 14 Cincinnati, OH - Bogarts >Feb 15 Columbus, OH, Newport Music Hall >Feb 17 Athens, GA - Georgia Theater >Feb 18 Atlanta, GA - Variety Playhouse >Feb 19 Orlando, FL - House of Blues >Feb 20 Charleston, SC - The Music Farm (tentative) >Feb 22 Baltimore, MD - Recher Theater >Feb 24 Washington, DC - 9:30 Club >Feb 25 Philadelphia, PA - Theatre of the Living Arts >Feb 26 (Northeast) >Feb 28 New Haven, CT - Toads Place >Feb 29 Boston, MA - Sommerville Theater (tentative) >March 2 New York, NY - Irving Plaza >March 3 Northampton, MA - Pearl Street >March 4 Burlington, VT - Higher Ground >March 5 Montreal, QUE - (tentative) >March 8 Nashville, TN - TVZ Tribute (tentative) > ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V6 #12 *************************