From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V5 #366 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Wednesday, November 3 1999 Volume 05 : Number 366 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: To be or not to be Ecto [Bob Keefer ] Re: hey! i disagree again (shock) [Michael Curry ] Miranda Sex Garden, was: To be or not to be Ecto [Andrew Fries ] What a week/Kristeen Young [Paul Blair ] Re: Goddess criteria... [kerrywhite@webtv.net (kerry white)] Bryan Ferry (was Re: What a week/Kristeen Young) [Sue Trowbridge Subject: Re: To be or not to be Ecto > From: Yngve Hauge : > In the early 70's a young couple was signed to a small label called > Polydor. They did make a very fine album, but after spending money on > this record the label didn't spend any money on marketing it and it > flopped. Two years later these 2 artists were major rock stars. I > know someone already has guessed who these two were, but for those > not guessing I'll give you a hint: Fleetwood Mac. I don't need to > say more, do I? :) Ah, just to make sure our history is straight: the reason the "Buckingham Nicks" became rock stars was -not- because they "became" Fleetwood Mac, but because the -joined- the existing band, Fleetwood Mac, who were already pretty big stars in England, with some pretty good albums (try "Heroes are Hard to Find"). True, super-stardom came after they joined the band, but it wasn't like they turned themselves into Fleetwood Mac. Or maybe you already knew that... bob "one-time possessor of 'The Legendary Christina Perfect Album'" k. - ----------------------- --------------------- -------------------- Robert Keefer Psychology Department "Nothing, believe me, Mt. St. Mary's College (301) 447-5394 nothing is more Emmitsburg, MD 21727 keefer@msmary.edu satisfying to me - ----------------------- --------------------- personally than getting [Speaking for myself.] a great idea and then beatin' it to death." David Letterman, Late Night with, March 5, 1993 -------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 19:08:43 -0500 From: Michael Curry Subject: Re: hey! i disagree again (shock) At 12:04 AM 11/2/99 -0800, blah blah blah wrote: >truth is, what i cherish about ECTO is that there really >isn't a core sensibility of music here. sure there is a big >overlap when it comes to what brought most people >onto this list, (KATE, TORI, JANE, SARAH, HAPPY, >and well i guess VEDA) which perhaps help outline >what ECTO is all about, but a whole lot of us ectophiles >color outside those lines. whether it is the more crunchy >THROWING MUSES or the softer (or as i like to call it, >ectobland) side like ENYA, to the more experimental >disharmonious side of DIAMANDA GALAS, to the >jazz pop side HOLLY COLE and everywhere and >everything else on that musical map. > >i personally feel that an integral part of the definition >of what ECTO is, is the diversity of everyone's taste >on the list (gawd that sounds so cheeseball. everyone >GROUP HUG! lets break out in WE ARE THE WORLD >and spontaneously reinact HANDS ACROSS AMERICA!) >but damnit i mean it! as much as i find VEDA boring, >and as much as i almost never listen to HAPPY or KATE >anymore, i still consider myself an ectophile. First an eloquent defense of Kristin Hersh's place in the music world and now this! Thank you Irvin. I agree that part of what makes ecto ecto is the diversity of tastes on the list, and I think that any attempt to come up with some strict definition of what is and is not ecto is bound to fail since it can never really reflect the broad variety of tastes held by various ectophiles. Mike np: Natalie MacMaster -- My Roots Are Showing nr: All Tomorrow's Parties by William Gibson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 14:50:25 +1100 From: Andrew Fries Subject: Miranda Sex Garden, was: To be or not to be Ecto On Tue, 2 Nov 1999, Yngve Hauge wrote: >n.p. A combination of the second disc of the new Tori and Miranda Sex > Garden's Gush Forth My Tears. They are so different, but both so > very beautiful. I didn't recognise this title - is there a new Miranda Sex Garden out?!? Please tell me more... - ------------------------------------------------------ "Macintosh for Productivity, Linux for Development, Palm for Mobility, and Windows for Solitaire." - - spotted on a t-shirt @ macsurfshop.com - ------ http://www.zip.com.au/~afries/hall.html ------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 23:14:42 -0500 From: Jeffrey Burka Subject: Re: Miranda Sex Garden, was: To be or not to be Ecto Andrew Fries asks: > > On Tue, 2 Nov 1999, Yngve Hauge wrote: > > >n.p. A combination of the second disc of the new Tori and Miranda Sex > > Garden's Gush Forth My Tears. They are so different, but both so > > very beautiful. > > I didn't recognise this title - is there a new Miranda Sex Garden out?!? > Please tell me more... Nope, quite the opposite, really. Once upon a time, before the discovered noise, Miranda Sex Garden released an album called _Madra_, which was basically a collection of a capella madrigals 'n such. Quite lovely. One of the tracks was called "Gush Forth My Tears," which was composed by William Holborne at the end of the 16th century (it's downright frightening how easy it is to research some of this stuff on the web...) Anyway, MSG (anyone else getting a headache?) released a CD single in '91 containing the a capella version of the song, along with three remixes which...weren't quite a capella, to say the least. I would imagine this is one of those things that these days one would be most likely to find hidden in a used bin somewhere, but... jeff n.p. _A Darker Passion_, Ingrid Karklins ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 21:30:01 -0800 (PST) From: John Drummond Subject: Miranda Sex Garden & Mediaeval Baebes Y'all, Actually, Miranda Sex Garden are on hiatus at the moment, because Katherine Blake, who was more or less the main creative force of the group, started another project, the Mediaeval Baebes, whose music is more in the _Madra_ vein... kind of... it's all old(e) English stuff, VERY old VERY amazing songs, not the high chirpy Italian madrigals, but old Latin hymns and the first Christmas carols and things... their first album _Salva Nos_ is available in America, but their second, _Worldes Blysse_, is not... sadly... but the Baebes actually sold very well, both albums topped the Classical charts in Britain and they toured all over... well, all over England... but anyhow, it's 16 girls and Katherine is the main creative force, yet again... she took a few of the girlies from MSG along for the ride as well... apparently, it was making them more money than MSG was at the time, though I love MSG and have all of their albums except "Gush forth my tears", because it's one of those legendary ... anyhow, it's most a capella and overall very compelling amazing music... I'd say go check it out if you can find it... Mediaeval Baebes and Portishead are the only things that got me through my bad traumatic Christmas of 1998. Bad bad bad time for me... and they were all I could listen to, I'd light all of my strange 99-cent saint candles from the grocery store and crawl under my down comforter and listen to _Salva Nos_ over and over and over... I also have a special place in my heart for medieval sacred musics, especially a capella vocal music... Lordy... how I love that stuff... anyhow... so umm... yeah, that's what Miranda Sex Garden are up to now. ;D John ===== "However, for all you S&M fans out there, fill your jodhpurs with whatever tickles your fancy, xoxo." - - Kym Brown __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 00:36:12 -0500 From: Paul Blair Subject: Re: Pantheology/Ecto isn't really "ecto" I've long admired Glenn McDonald's writing, and was happy to see his thoughtful message on Pantheology, a worthy contribution from the warrior against silence. Then Karen Hester came along with an equally thoughtful post--Karen who? Why haven't we heard more from her?--to make a point that should have been made earlier, that by defining an ecto pantheon nobody is trying to restrict the range of artists that are discussed on this list. That wide range of interests is part of what makes ecto wonderful. But, as Karen points out, this broad variety of tastes really has nothing at all to do with what is and isn't "ecto." Just because something isn't "ecto" doesn't mean it shouldn't be discussed here. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 21:55:24 -0800 From: "Neil K. Guy" Subject: Re: Miranda Sex Garden & Mediaeval Baebes At 9:30 PM -0800 11/2/99, John Drummond wrote: > Actually, Miranda Sex Garden are on hiatus at the >moment, because Katherine Blake, who was more or less >the main creative force of the group, started another >project, the Mediaeval Baebes, whose music is more in >the _Madra_ vein... kind of... it's all old(e) English >stuff, VERY old VERY amazing songs, not the high >chirpy Italian madrigals, but old Latin hymns and the >first Christmas carols and things... their first album >_Salva Nos_ is available in America, but their second, >_Worldes Blysse_, is not... sadly... [...] Well, what do you know? My latest Nettwerk plug that I'm trying not to be a Nettwerk plug... Nettwerk America released the Baebes' Worldes Blysse in the US this summer. (it's on... EMI in Canada, I think) One audio clip at: http://www.nettweb.com/nettwerk/owa/album_select.show_album?p_alb_id= 2651&p_where=a There's a remixed single out that has beats and stuff, but as John noted the actual album hasn't any drum machines or electric-powered instruments at all. Note for fans of Dave McKean's artwork - he did the cover. - Neil K. - -- t e l a computer consulting + design * Vancouver, BC, Canada web: http://www.tela.bc.ca/tela/ * email: tela@tela.bc.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 22:01:37 -0800 From: blah blah blah Subject: MAGNETIC FIELDS, VEDA > jeff was listening to: > n.p. Magnetic Fields - 69 Love Songs > > (I'm really liking this 3-disc set by the way. I find > Stephen Merritt to definitely have an ecto sensibility > about him--even though he mostly does lo-fi pop--his > humor and pop sensibility remind me of Steve Poltz, > but without the fascination with beer and hot dogs.) hmmm. i never really got into STEVE POLTZ but now you make me want to check him out again. i think i was initially turned off by him because he was the cowriter of that JEWEL song wasn't he? YOU WERE MEANT FOR ME? not that it is terrible song per se. but still. that happened to be the only exposure i had of his skills, and it probably wasn't the best first impression i don't think i would have listed STEPHIN MERRIT as having an ecto sensibility, but i love him still, and i think that there are quite a number of fans of his here on ecto. for those out there who are wondering about his box set, and don't want to invest in all three disc (though you should, you really should) pick up disc one, it is the strongest one of the three, though the other two are quite excellent as well. those who are not aware of STEPHIN MERRIT or his many incarnations should check out his projects THE MAGNETIC FIELDS, THE SIXTHS, FUTURE BIBLE HEROES and GOTHIC ARCHIES. THE SIXTHS first album WASPS NESTS is notable for inclusion of many ECTO FRIENDLY artists, including BARBARA MANNING, ANNA DOMINO and AMELIA FLETCHER (TALLULAH GOSH, HEAVENLY and MARINE RESEARCH - the last by the way is quite excellent, i think all fans of TWEE and INDIE rock should rush out and get it - a little more mature and sophisticated than the former band, HEAVENLY). STEPHIN is known for his lo-fi pop songs, synthpop sensibilities, and wry deadpan sense of humor. he often plays with gender stereotypes with his songs (writing from both gender's point of view, a fact that is compounded by often having someone, male or female, sing the songs, as well as the fact that it is common knowledge by his fans that he is gay). and he writes the damn catchiest songs to boot. in fact 69 LOVE SONGS(his latest 3 CD set) is probably the gayest thing he has done (so says my friend FORREST). i have to agree. and his most bitter as well. favorite stand outs include A CHICKEN WITH HIS HEAD CUT OFF, I DON'T WANT TO GET OVER YOU, THE LUCKIEST GUY ON THE LOWER EAST SIDE, MEANINGLESS, PAPA WAS A RODEO, SWEET-LOVIN' MAN, COME BACK FROM SAN FRANCISCO, and WASHINGTON DC. i have to list that many songs, because, yes, there are actually 69 songs, split between the three CDs (23 each). and um, yeah, i didn't know that VEDA had 5 CD's but then i wasn't aware of her self produced first tape (i usually don't count those sort of things or else i would have include the 1983 and 1985 demos that THROWING MUSES in the catalog list, and i would have to count things like the tape that JILL SOBULE did before THINGS HERE ARE DIFFERENT or the tape that JEWEL did before she was signed as well). it was different counting the four tapes that HAPPY did, because she later rereleased them on CD. but still four or five discs does not (in my eyes) merit a large body of work. true TORI only has five studio discs, but her bsides in and of themselves could fill about five other discs, so i feel that she is a little more justifiable in being listed in the pantheon. even if BOYS FOR PELE was so completely subpar. (ha! had to throw that in). and yeah, i only have PATH OF A BODY and never got SPINE. i have been told by many people (and that includes METH, NEILE and many others) that i should at least pick up SPINE and check it out. but since i was so NOT impressed with PATH OF THE BODY, i haven't been motivated, despite often seeing SPINE in the cheap bins. and i have since not paid all that much attention to any posts since. so perhaps i do jump to conclusions, but to my credit i really do go back and listen to certain CD's to see if they grow on me. and some do (like TORI's BOYS FROM PELE which has moved up from "ectobland and boring" to the "hey i wouldn't mind actually owning a real CD of this, instead of the promo tape i got from ATLANTIC way back when"). PATH OF A BODY just hasn't though. i still find it generic ectobland. she doesn't really push any boundaries that i can hear. her pseudo-jazz folkish musicality doesn't interest me, her voice isn't all that special to my ears, her melodies are neither hook filled enough to hold my attention, nor beautiful enough for me to enjoy, nor rocking enough or alarming enough to merit any sort of reaction other boredom. and her lyrics, well i find them better than JEWEL's but that isn't saying much. which just goes to show that my tastes do vary from others on this list. which is fine. which is better than fine. if we all had the same tastes i would find this list rather boring and would have unsubscribed ages ago. i have been on more than 25 lists most of them single musician topics (except for the SUBBACULTCHA list which deals with the THROWING MUSES and PIXIES bands and offshoots) and ECTO is the only one that has survived the test of time. *shrug* and i certainly do feel that lately i have been veering off the ECTO path lately. but that hasn't meant that i will be unsubscribing anytime soon, much to many of you all's shagrin i am sure. (oh NO! another post from IRVIN!). um. as i have said before, i do shut up eventually. i was quite a lurker a couple of months ago. too much spare time nowi guess. i seem to check my email too regularly nowadays. now you know why i use BLAH BLAH BLAH for my name. irvin NP: ANI DIFRANCO - TO THE TEETH ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 01:06:10 -0500 From: Paul Blair Subject: What a week/Kristeen Young Good grief! This week I'm seeing (saw) Kristeen Young tonight at Acme Underground, Brendan Perry and Kristin Hersh tomorrow night at Bowery Ballroom (if I can get tickets), Bryan Ferry Friday night at Beacon Theatre, and then Kevin Bartlett and Black Tape for a Blue Girl Saturday night in Philadelphia! (Suzanne tells me I could go see Peter Hammill Thursday night, but I've got a lecture on the Apache web server API I want to go to...) Anyway, I went to see Kristeen Young this evening. I'd never been to Acme Underground before--a space more or less Arlene-Grocery-like. The show was sparsely attended, and of the fifteen or so people in the room, only one (besides the bartender) was a woman--actually, a second woman came in toward the end of the show. An interesting demographic. Kristeen's hair was in narrow but not quite corn-rowed braids pulled back behind her head, except for one that fell across her face; the sum effect was to give her a Medusa-like quality. She wore a long-sleeved halter top with bands of sky blue and lime green divided by narrower stripes of violet and ivory. Her almost-floor-length skirt (over the standard black Doc Marten-style boots) matched the pattern of the top; on her bare stomach was printed the word "OBLIGATORY." She played keyboards and was joined by two guys--a somewhat distractingly fluid bass player and a drummer. For some reason--mainly my own inattention to postings about her, I'm sure--I somehow expected Kristeen Young to be on the "folkier" side of ecto. Zotz! As her set started, I thought, "Let's see... this is what would happen if Rachael Sage sold her soul to the devil, turned up the volume knob all the way, and started yelling..." But that didn't really capture it. For awhile I thought that Kristeen Young might be a sort of budget Veda Hille, but as the show went on I learned to appreciate Veda Hille's musicianship a lot more--every one of the songs in tonight's set had the same sort of percussive, repetitive keyboard stuff going on under it. At the beginning it's catchy, then it gets a little tiresome, and finally (with apologies to Don Keller, who seemed to be having a pretty good time) it reaches the point of ostinato ad absurdum. I think she actually has a pretty good voice, but with the volume turned up as loud as it was, little that she sang was anywhere near intelligible. I may go see her again some time, just to make sure, but my tentative judgment is that for me, this one's not a keeper. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 00:21:23 -0600 (CST) From: kerrywhite@webtv.net (kerry white) Subject: Re: Goddess criteria... I haven't read every word of evry post on this: it may have been mentioned already: how about a list of "Ecto Favorites" to be situated under the Goddess list. This would keep the Goddess a bit more elite and still have a list that most (but not >all<) ectos would agree on. Visitors to the Guide would get two sources of artists to check out. Hmmm? bye, KrW "Yes, it left a great gaping hole in the water!" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 22:29:30 -0800 (PST) From: Sue Trowbridge Subject: Bryan Ferry (was Re: What a week/Kristeen Young) On Wed, 3 Nov 1999, Paul Blair wrote: > Good grief! This week I'm seeing (saw) Kristeen Young tonight at Acme > Underground, Brendan Perry and Kristin Hersh tomorrow night at Bowery > Ballroom (if I can get tickets), Bryan Ferry Friday night at Beacon > Theatre, Paul, could you (or for that matter anyone else who happens to see Bryan Ferry on his current tour) please post a review? He is playing in Oakland in mid-November, and despite my almost-lifelong fandom, I haven't bought tix because (a) they're $75/each and (b) the ad said that he would be performing the '30s covers from his new album, and well, that's not really my bag. Still, I'm curious whether or not he'll throw in a rendition of "In Every Dream Home A Heartache" or "Do The Strand" to appease the Roxy faithful... - --Sue Trowbridge trow@slip.net np: Wilco, SUMMERTEETH ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V5 #366 **************************