From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V5 #363 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Monday, November 1 1999 Volume 05 : Number 363 Today's Subjects: ----------------- More newbie ramble! ["Mieu d'Iscalio Sedai" ] Today's your birthday, friend... [Mike Matthews ] Re: Ecto pantheon [Yngve Hauge ] Re: Crista/Tara ["Neil K. Guy" ] Re: More newbie ramble! [Andrew Fries ] Re: Ecto pantheon [Andrew Fries ] KRISTIN HERSH [blah blah blah ] Re: More newbie ramble! [Philip David Morgan ] all of this pantheon nonsense [John Drummond ] Meredith LaVande [Amy Lotsberg ] Re: KRISTIN HERSH [Songbird22@aol.com] Sorry [Amy Lotsberg ] Re: Ecto Goddesses [Larne Pekowsky ] Re: KRISTIN HERSH [Neile Graham ] Re: Sorry [Bill Adler ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 23:22:14 -0800 From: "Mieu d'Iscalio Sedai" Subject: More newbie ramble! This is a bit late, but I'm reading the digest version and it's a lot less tempting for me to reply early. I get so much mail from so many mailing lists, and I wish I had time to participate in them all! ^_^ Anyway, this is just to thank everybody for the warm welcome I got. Nice to know that the list has such a diverse age group, and diverse interests as well. A lot of you seem to be musicians yourselves, though. Er, I play the piano -- does that count? ^_^ I don't play it WELL, though. I guess that makes a difference... *twiddles thumbs* Anyway... um... there seems to be SO many different artists that the ecto people are fond of, and I have no idea where to start! Please try not to look TOO shocked when I say I have never listened to Kate Bush. *blushes* I am fairly young, and I'm also quite a newbie into this particular genre of music, so I guess I have an excuse, sort of. I don't want to interrupt in the "goddess" thread, but... I'm just curious as to what artists all of you would recommend to an ecto newbie. ^_^ I've heard Sarah and Tori... and Happy, of course, but that's about it. Oh, yeah, and thanks everyone who complimented me on my webpage! I was surprised that anyone actually bothered to check it out. I love sharing my interests so if you're interested in anything I do through my page keep mailing me privately! It's been lots of fun. *ducks away blushing more* I feel weird being a newbie ^_^ - -- Mieu Sedai of the Green Ajah aka the Dark Siren Sally d'Iscalio http://ecstasy.simplenet.com/mieu/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 03:00:04 -0500 (EST) From: Mike Matthews Subject: Today's your birthday, friend... i*i*i*i*i*i i*i*i*i*i*i *************** *****HAPPY********* **************BIRTHDAY********* *************************************************** *************************************************************************** ********************* Kathy Clark (Bunnies@cris.com) ********************** *************************************************************************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Marvin Camras Sat January 01 1916 Tapehead Jeanne Schreiter Tue January 03 1967 Capricorn John Sandoval Wed January 04 1967 Capricorn Paul Cohen Tue January 05 1954 Capricorn Tony Garrity Mon January 08 1962 Pool of Life Greg Bossert Tue January 09 1962 OfTheTimes Troy J. Shadbolt Thu January 14 1971 Capricorn Chris Sampson Wed January 15 1964 Void where prohibited Dennis G Parslow Fri January 17 1964 ...of the Saint Ross Alford Thu January 17 1957 Positive Nancy Whitney Mon January 19 1959 slippery when wet Sarah Noelle Pratt Ferguson Tue January 20 1970 Seanympf-Aquarius David Beery Tue January 20 1976 drum Terry Partis Sun January 22 1933 Rocker Sarah McLachlan Sun January 28 1968 Aquarius Ilka Heber Mon February 01 1965 Mermaid Bob Lovejoy Sun February 02 1947 Aquarius Diane Burke Sat February 02 1963 slow children Timothy S. Devine Tue February 03 1970 Aquarius Stephen Thomas Fri February 04 1966 Aquarius Doug Burks Tue February 14 1956 Blank Jim Sturnfield Thu February 18 1954 Aquarius Juha Kannisto Wed February 18 1970 Aquarius Joel Siegfried February 19 Penguin Crossing Linda Saboe Tue February 20 1951 aimless Teresa Ross Wed February 23 1977 pisces Michael Curry Fri February 24 1967 Pisces Paula Shanks Mon February 25 1952 Pisces Brni Mojzes Fri February 26 1965 the vanishing boy Pamela Pociluk Fri February 28 1964 Pisces Tim Steele Fri March 08 1963 Pisces Matt Bittner Thu March 12 1964 Pisces kIrI Hargie Fri March 13 1970 Pisces Bob Dreano Thu March 13 1958 Pisces Randall K. Smith Sat March 15 1969 Pisces Jessica Skolnik March 16 Pisces Alan Sodoma Thu March 18 1965 LuckyLurker Richard Konrad Sat March 18 1944 Pisces Barry Wong Thu March 19 1970 Merlin Graham Dombkins Fri March 19 1965 Pisces Ian Young Wed March 19 1969 Squiggol Jeff Wasilko Wed March 19 1969 Pisces Geoff Carre Sat March 20 1954 Pisces John Stewart Sat March 21 1970 Aries Bob Brown Thu March 22 1951 Ham Valerie Nozick Thu March 25 1971 Aries Tom Proven Sat March 27 1971 Eat at Joe's Jennifer Albert Wed March 30 1966 Aries (w/Cancer rising!:) Warpaint Mon April 01 1991 Brilliant! Michael Pearce Wed April 03 1946 Pegasus Michael E. Bravo Mon April 05 1971 Dandelion Wine Brion McIntosh Sun April 06 1958 Aries Marcel Kshensky Thu April 06 1950 Aries Bill Mazur Mon April 06 1953 Aries Sun/Cancer Rising David Dixon Tue April 07 1970 Aries Heidi Heller Mon April 08 1974 Aries Jill Hughes Sat April 09 1955 Aries Klaus Kluge Sun April 10 1960 Unicorn Steve VanDevender Sun April 10 1966 Racer Art Liestman Fri April 10 1953 Repeat Stephen Golden Sat April 10 1971 Jokey Michael Bowman Wed April 11 1962 Aries Wolfgang Ullwer Fri April 11 1969 Widder Janet Kirsch Thu April 11 1974 Aries Jerry Tue April 13 1971 Aries Stuart Myerburg Mon April 14 1969 Aries T-Bone Wed April 15 1992 happy cat Jeff Hanson Sat April 16 1966 Aries Michael Klouda Mon April 17 1967 Aries Harry Foster Sat April 21 1956 NiceGuy Kjetil Torgrim Homme Thu April 23 1970 Taurus Jeff Burka Thu April 24 1969 GoFlyAKite Christine Waite Tue April 25 1972 Taurus Matt Adams Thu April 26 1962 Taurus Brad Hutchinson Tue April 28 1964 What sign? Geoff Parks Sun April 30 1961 Taurus Marty Lash Sat May 01 1948 Taurus Barney Parker Fri May 02 1986 happy cat Gray Abbott Tue May 03 1955 Suprised Tamar Boursalian Tue May 03 1966 Taurus Richard A. Holmes May 07 Taurus Steve Ito Fri May 08 1970 DA Bull... Brian Gregory Thu May 09 1963 Eclectic Patrick Varker Wed May 12 1954 Torius Steve Fagg Tue May 13 1958 Nightwol Karel Zuiderveld Fri May 13 1960 Stier Michael Colford Wed May 16 1962 Taurus Christopher Boek Tue May 19 1970 Taurus Yngve Hauge Fri May 21 1971 Gemini Lisa Laane Tue May 22 1973 Gemini Jewel Kilcher Thu May 23 1974 The Gem Chandra Sriram Thu May 27 1971 Gemini Urs Stafford Thu May 31 1973 Give Way Perttu Yli-Krekola Thu June 02 1966 Kaksoset Alex Gibbs Thu June 08 1967 Betelgeuse Gleb Zverev Tue June 09 1964 Gemini Sonja Juchniewich Mon June 10 1963 Pegasus Joerg Plate Mon June 12 1967 Gemini Chris Montville Tue June 13 1978 Gemini Ectoplasm (original name) Mailing List Thu June 13 1991 Fuzzier blue Mark R. Susskind Wed June 15 1966 Gemini Mike Matthews Mon June 16 1969 Dr. Firewall Albert Philipsen Mon June 17 1968 Gemini Neal R. Copperman Thu June 17 1965 Gemini Susan Kay Anderson Tue June 17 1969 Gemini Ecto-The Mailing List Tue June 18 1991 Fuzzy blue Tracy Barber Mon June 18 1956 Gemini Greg Dunn Thu June 18 1953 + Paul Blair Thu June 18 1964 Objectivist David Lubkin Fri June 20 1958 OurLady Marisa Wood Fri June 20 1969 Gemini Cheri Villines Sun June 20 1965 Gemini-Leo rising Ray Misra Sat June 20 1970 Gemini Nik Popa Sun June 22 1969 Cancer Teresa VanDyne Thu June 23 1960 Cancer Dave Torok Mon June 24 1968 Cancer Ethan Straffin Thu June 24 1971 Cancer Kevin Dekan Mon June 27 1960 Cancer Samantha Tanner Tue June 30 1970 Wild Goose BunkyTom Tue July 02 1968 Cancer Anders Hallberg Tue July 03 1962 Cancer Kevin Harkins Thu July 05 1973 Cancer Laurel Krahn Mon July 05 1971 Cancer John J Henshon Mon July 05 1954 The Year Of The Horse / Ruled By The Moon Jim Gurley Mon July 06 1959 Cancer Lisa Wilson Fri July 08 1960 Moonchild with Java Rising Courtney Dallas Fri July 09 1971 Catte Michael Peskura Sat July 09 1949 HallOfFamer Finney T. Tsai Sat July 09 1966 Cancer Larry Greenfield Tue July 11 1950 Virgo Rising; Gemini Moon Marion Kippers Tue July 13 1965 Kreeft Ellen Rawson Thu July 13 1961 Double Cancer Mitch Pravatiner Mon July 14 1952 Cancer Rich R. Wed July 14 1954 Cancer John Zimmer Sun July 16 1961 Cancer Dan Stark Sun July 16 1961 Cancer Cathy Guetzlaff Mon July 18 1955 Cancer Vlad Sat July 18 1970 Warning: severe tire damage Jani Pinola Thu July 20 1972 Jonquil Alvin Brattli Sun July 27 1969 Lefthanded Christy Eger Smith Thu July 27 1944 Horse Crossing Shirley Ye July 27 Lioness woj Sun July 28 1968 children at play John Relph Sat July 28 1962 Leo Bob Kollmeyer Wed July 28 1971 Leo Steve Lusky Tue July 29 1952 Bike! Kate Bush Wed July 30 1958 God Chuck Smith Wed July 30 1958 Reboot Yves Denneulin Fri July 30 1971 Lion-Heart Joel Kenyon Wed July 31 1963 Leo Eli Brandt August 05 Leo Martin Bridges Sat August 08 1970 BigGuy Happy Rhodes Mon August 09 1965 HolyGhost Michael Stevens Sat August 12 1967 For Sale or Lease Vickie Mapes Wed August 15 1956 WretchAwry Martin Dougiamas Wed August 20 1969 Positive Tori Amos Thu August 22 1963 Leo Sam Warren Tue August 22 1961 Leo Henk Van Wulpen Sat August 22 1970 Leo Kerry White Wed August 22 1951 Exact Leo/Virgo Don Gibson Wed August 26 1959 Virgo Marcel Rijs Mon August 31 1970 A rose growing old Meredith Tarr Wed September 01 1971 Virgo Mary Lou Rowe Sat September 03 1960 Virgo Scott Zimmerman Mon September 04 1972 Virgo Mike Mendelson Fri September 04 1964 Virgo Richard Dean Wed September 06 1967 Virgo David Blank-Edelman Sat September 09 1967 Neon Holly Tominack Thu September 10 1970 Virgo Sharon Nichols - Terra Incognita Wed September 11 1963 Victim of Christianity Heather Russell September 11 Total Virgosity Karron Lynn Lane Tue September 14 1751 Ophelia Virgo Troy Wollenslegel Mon September 18 1972 Virgo Mark Frabotta Sun September 19 1965 Don't even THINK about parking here Joe Zitt Sat September 20 1958 Will Hack for CDs Ani DiFranco Wed September 23 1970 Virgo Paul Kim Sat October 01 1977 fetal position JoAnn Whetsell Fri October 01 1976 Pendulum William Gill Wed October 05 1960 A wide-eyed wanderer Dan Riley Sun October 08 1961 Libra Neile Graham Wed October 08 1958 pen Quenby M. Chunco Tue October 08 1968 Crunchy Frog Mike Garland Wed October 08 1952 Creature_of_the_Night Irvin Lin Tue October 09 1973 Libra Michael C. Berch Wed October 10 1956 No parking Chris Gagnon Sat October 10 1970 Libra Wolfgang Drotschmann Thu October 13 1966 Waage Gracescape Fri October 13 1967 unbalanced Brian Bloom Tue October 14 1969 spam Erik N. Johnson Tue October 16 1962 Handle with Care Kim Klouda Tue October 17 1967 Libra Anthony Amato Sat October 20 1973 Libra Dave Steiner Sat October 24 1959 Scorpio Tara MacLean Thu October 25 1973 Scorpio Jessica Koeppel Wed October 29 1969 Scorpio Kathy Clark Sat November 01 1969 Bunnies Katie Dougiamas Sat November 02 1974 Scorpio Anthony Horan Fri November 04 1966 Positive Michael Sullivan Mon November 05 1962 Scorpio Anna Pryde Wed November 05 1975 Scorpio Sun; Sagittarius Moon; Pisces Rising Jens Brage Sun November 08 1964 Scorpio Rising Lynn Garrett Sat November 08 1958 Scorpio Sam Murgie Fri November 08 1957 Scorpio Rachel Kramer Bussel Mon November 10 1975 Scorpio Ken Latta Sun November 11 1951 Scorpio Michael Doyle Wed November 12 1969 Scorpio Neil K. Thu November 14 1968 Grocible Dave Cook Mon November 15 1971 Scorpio Jeff Pearce November 16 Orpheus Naama Avramzon Mon November 18 1974 Scorpio Jeff Smith Mon November 19 1962 Crash Kevin Bartlett Fri November 21 1952 Scorpio Claudia Spix Wed November 23 1960 Schuetze Anja Baldo Tue November 23 1965 Garbanzo Tommy Persson Wed November 25 1964 Sagittarius Pat Tessitore November 26 Sagittarius Valerie Kraemer November 26 Sagittarius Justin Bur Fri November 27 1964 Sagittarius Sue Trowbridge Sun November 27 1966 Skytten Ward Kadel Tue November 29 1977 Sagittarius Mirko Bulaja Sat November 30 1974 Block Juha Sorva Thu December 02 1976 Sagittarius Chip Lueck Thu December 05 1968 Sagittarius Michele Wellck December 08 Sagittarius Jeremy J. Corry Fri December 11 1970 Sagittarius Renee Canada Tue December 13 1977 Sagittarius Julie C. Kammerzell Sun December 15 1968 Sagittarius/Scorpio combo Gloria Jackson-Nefertiti Sat December 15 1956 queen_nefertiti@prodigy.net Damon Harper Tue December 16 1975 COOL BANANAS Laura Clifford Tue December 17 1957 Sagittarius Dirk Kastens Tue December 17 1963 Sagittarius Milla Wed December 17 1975 Sagittarius Chris Schernwetter Tue December 17 1974 Sagittarius Sherry Haddock Sat December 17 1960 Sagittarius Tracy Benbrook Tue December 18 1973 Sagittarius Mark Lowry Mon December 22 1969 Capricarius Uli Grepel Wed December 25 1968 Steinbock Joseph Wasicek Sat December 25 1976 Brown Eagle Stuart Castergine Mon December 30 1963 You Are Here ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 09:27:16 +0100 (CET) From: Yngve Hauge Subject: Re: Ecto pantheon > I just thought of a possible solution. The artists could be divided > by decade, ie, the sixties goddesses, 70's, 80's, etc. Most people > have been nominating artist's from this decade - hardly enough time > to have been influential. Being classified in the 90's would > imply that these are the up and comers who we think will be the > most influential from this decade. Sounds like the best solution (IMHO). > Sixties: > Carol King Carole King is a must on a sixties list even though she did influence other artists through 50's to 70's. Without her there wouldn't have been the radical change of music style which gave us Beatles and about everything from then on. > Janis Joplin A huge influence on many artists mostly cause of her stage persona. I agree on her being included though. > Grace Slick > Tina Turner Never had any likes for Tina Turner, and I'm not sure of her overall influence except for being the "super grandma" :) > Seventies: > Joni Mitchell > Laura Nyro > Patti Smith > Deborah Harry I agree with the 3 first, but am not sure about Deborah Harry though. Mainly because I'm not quite sure which decade to put her in. > > Eighties: > Laurie Anderson > Kate Bush > Jane Siberry > Madonna? > Chrisie Hynde Madonna maybe, but I wouldn't put Chrisie Hynde in such an Pantheon. > Nineties: > Happy Rhodes > Tori Amos > Veda Hille > Emily Bezar Can't do much with this list - perfect I would say :) *hugs* - -- Yngve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 00:49:52 -0800 From: "Neil K. Guy" Subject: Re: Crista/Tara At 12:53 PM +1000 10/30/99, Andrew Fries wrote: >In that notice on my site I promised the first person to provide the >answer will have a shrine with their likeness built in my backyard; so >feel free to send me your picture and I'll get to it! Oh my. Um. Well, perhaps the thought would be enough? :) >Now I just have one more favour to ask: do you think with your Nettwerk >connections you could somehow discover her email address? (I couldn't >find it anywhere on the site!), I'd be really, really grateful... I could ask, I suppose. I have no idea myself. >While browsing nettwerk site (which I find terribly confusing, but >perhaps it's just me) I noticed Tara Mclean has a new album, "Passenger". >It was released on 26th Oct, apparently. Does anyone have any comments? Passenger has been released in Canada on Nettwerk. Hasn't come out in the US - scheduled for next year. Unlike her first album it won't be carried by Nettwerk America but by Capitol. I don't feel I can offer a review, but it is quite a different work from Silence - much less folky, for one thing. She worked with New Orleans producer Malcolm Burn, though many of the songs were written at home with her husband and guitarist Bill Bell in their home studio. It's actually pretty cool to have heard the early demos in their studio and then hearing the final album. But then, I love following the process of creation. If you have LiquidAudio and want to hear most of the album itself: http://www.nettweb.com/nettwerk/owa/album_select.show_album?p_alb_id=2673 Plus a QuickTime video clip of the first single. I keep meaning to ask her about the significance of that teddy bear passenger, though... If you prefer the simpler arrangements she and Bill are touring with a drummer, not a full band, as I recall. - Neil K. - -- t e l a computer consulting + design * Vancouver, BC, Canada web: http://www.tela.bc.ca/tela/ * email: tela@tela.bc.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 20:52:48 +1100 From: Andrew Fries Subject: Re: More newbie ramble! On Sun, 31 Oct 1999, Mieu d'Iscalio Sedai wrote: >A lot of you seem to be musicians yourselves Somewhere in the not-too old archives there is a list of Ecto members featured on mp3.com; I won't attempt to list them now for fear of leaving anyone out, but we do have quite a presence there! You might also be interested in what I think was one of the more successful Ecto projects: home-burned CD, "Ectopia", compilation of works by the members of this list. It was top quality, and you could probably still get a copy if you ask the right person nicely - err, isn't that right Fog? >Please try not to look TOO shocked when I say I have never listened to >Kate Bush. *blushes* I am fairly young, and I'm also quite a newbie into this >particular genre of music, so I guess I have an excuse, sort of. I don't believe any excuses are neccessary or expected. I know it's been at least 5 years since I listened to any Kate Bush myself... We really are a pretty diverse and tolerant bunch here; as long as you respect opinions/preferences of others, you're welcome to yours. >I'm just curious as to what artists all of you would recommend to an ecto >newbie. Rather than recommending specific artists I'd like to mention this excellent resource: The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music, found at Explore and have fun! BTW, welcome to Ecto. - ------------------------------------------------------ "Macintosh for Productivity, Linux for Development, Palm for Mobility, and Windows for Solitaire." - - spotted on a t-shirt @ macsurfshop.com - ------ http://www.zip.com.au/~afries/hall.html ------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 20:47:18 +1100 From: Andrew Fries Subject: Re: Ecto pantheon On Sun, 31 Oct 1999, meredith wrote: >Kristin Hersh is a great artist, sure, and lots of ectophiles like her a >whole lot, but I don't see her influencing a lot of people or carving an >indelible niche for herself in the music world. At the risk of stepping on a few toes I'd say Kristin Hersh is more influential than the current dweller of the Pantheon Veda Hille, if only by virtue of being on the scene since 86. And she's Veda's equal in other ways: right from the start, her songwriting and voice have always been individual and instantly recognisable in a way befitting a Goddess, and she has a presence to match - seeing Throwing Muses play is one of my most cherished musical memories. Just think back to the music that was around in 1986 and then play that first Throwing Muses album - really this was pretty amazing stuff. It still is! That's probably the main reason she never had much commercial success Sarah M's style, but she's truly a "musician's musician". I base this opinion on my personal experience where mentioning Throwing Muses to other artists usually brings at least some sort of recognition while Veda Hille draws a blank as a rule. Conversations on Ecto are the only exception I've come across and even here, I wonder just how many Ecto members would actually know Veda's music, compared to Kristin/TM? Mind you, I don't dispute Veda's right to be up there; my point is that Kristin is just as worthy, at least of being included in the voting process if we ever end up having one. np. Splendid, "Have you got a name for it?" - still trying to make up my mind before I say anything... - ------------------------------------------------------ "Macintosh for Productivity, Linux for Development, Palm for Mobility, and Windows for Solitaire." - - spotted on a t-shirt @ macsurfshop.com - ------ http://www.zip.com.au/~afries/hall.html ------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 02:16:32 -0800 From: blah blah blah Subject: KRISTIN HERSH > From: meredith said: > Kristin Hersh is a great artist, sure, and lots of ectophiles like her a > whole lot, but I don't see her influencing a lot of people or carving an > indelible niche for herself in the music world. Maybe time will prove > otherwise, but for now that extra *something* isn't there for me to see her > on the Goddess list. i so COMPLETELY disagree. well not with the part about KRISTIN HERSH being a great artist. but i think her influence in the alternative rock scene is SO highly underrated. i think the sensibilities of KRISTIN HERSH from her earlier punk rock roots of THROWING MUSES have help paved the way for bands like THE BREEDERS, LETTERS TO CLEO, VERUCA SALT, JULIANA HATFIELD/BLAKE BABIES, LIZ PHAIR, BETTIE SERVERRT, and of course her stepsister's group BELLY even the mainstream rockers like ALANIS MORISSETTE and all the ALANIS wannabees owe a nod to KRISTIN and her songwriting. i even would go as far as to say ANI DIFRANCO's sound and style is a result of her groundbreaking guitar work and music writing. KRISTIN was alternative rock way before that word was used as a catch phrase by MTV. listen to the complexity of HOUSE TORNADO or the first THROWING MUSES album (both guitar/songwriting and lyrics). then think of the era that it was released in. 1988 and 1986. think of what type of music that was being played on the radio. people like MADONNA and CYNDI LAUPER. the new romantics. new wave. that sort (nothing against them, i happened to be a big CYNDI fan, but she was groundbreaking a in totally different way). KRISTIN HERSH really pushed the boundaries of rock, punk, and pop way before her time. she is someone who certainly should be listed as a goddess. and i am not alone. consistantly she is listed as one of the most influential and underrated artists out there, from the mainstream mags (SPIN, ROLLING STONE, AP) to the more underground zines (BITCH, BUST, etc.). she is cited as an influential artist by musicians like KIM GORDON, KURT COBAIN, and AIMEE MANN. she has collaborated with MICHAEL STIPE and BOB MOULD. i think one of the reasons that people don't give her the credit that she deserves is because her music isn't quite as hookfilled or as accessible as people are used to. certainly she missed a few opportunities with her music (BRIGHT YELLOW GUN could have been her big hit, if MTV buzzbinned it, but instead it was released a year too late, and MTV had already picked up on FEED THE TREES by her sister's group BELLY). but she says in interviews now that she is quite content with her own level of success and work. i certainly think she deserves to be on the list more so than someone like ANI (who i love, but whose music, at least for me, doesn't push any boundaries or carve any niches that haven't been done before). if i were to include ANI it would be for her business savvy and DIY mentality more than her music writing. she certainly has influenced artists into starting up their own labels and forging their own path. but her music isn't really breaking all that many boundaries. and if ANI were included in that list for that reason, i think artists like LAURIE ANDERSON and JENNY TOOMEY should be considered too. and if DIY and business savvy is factor in including someone in the pantheon, KRISTIN was one of the first artists to exploit and use the web and MP3's as a viable way of selling her work (via her website THROWINGMUSIC.com). she was nominated as one of the first annual ARTIST direct online music awards, for recognition of her website. she was also able to juggle being a mother of three all the while (even touring while pregnant and with her children). KRISTIN HERSH has been around WAY longer than VEDA HILLE or for that matter ANI DIFRANCO. i give NEILE the perogative to add VEDA to the list because she it the editor-in-chief of the ectoguide, and can do what she wants with it, but VEDA has only put out two (or is it three?) CD's while KRISTIN has a catalog of 14 + CD's (including THROWING MUSES stuff) that span nearly fifteen years. and while we are at it, since we are citing people who are influential in the music industry, instead of musicians that the majority of ectophiles like, should DEBBIE HARRY be listed? i think someone needs to define what the pantheon of goddess is to me. is it a list of influential musicians for ectophiles? or is the most popular musicians for ectophiles? because if it is the list of most influential, HAPPY shouldn't be listed, since she certainly hasn't influenced all that many artists, as she is relatively unknown outside of ectoland. if it is most popular, perhaps VEDA HILLE should be reconsidered because outside of a few core ectophiles, i don't see her name pop up all that much (though in truth i do ignore nearly every post that her name is mentioned in....) anyway all this IMO but that should go without saying. irvin ps. still waiting on that ECTOFEST poster. pps. favorite spice girl: SPORTY SPICE. used to be SCARY but then she turned out to be stupider than i thought she was. then it was GINGER but she turned out to be less talented than i thought she was. so now it's SPORTY. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 06:16:02 -0500 From: Philip David Morgan Subject: Re: More newbie ramble! Good Morning, Mieu! > ...*ducks away blushing more* I feel weird being a newbie ^_^... ....You should have seen me the day it dawned on me that I _am_ an otaku... and it's good to welcome another to Ecto. Now I don't feel alone on this list. Welcome, Mieu-han. Philip David (more later - I have to get to work!) 11/1/1999 - -- http://members.dencity.com/SakuraNation/ http://dianewolkstein.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 05:43:56 -0800 (PST) From: John Drummond Subject: all of this pantheon nonsense Y'all, Okay... Irvin Lin posited one question about whether or not the Ecto pantheon should be based upon who is the most influential or the most popular... and I think something that he and most everybody else involving themselves in this conversation is kind of overlooking is the fact that we aren't the be-all and end-all of all popular music... that's not what we're about... and so, the pantheon has to consist of the most popular-and/OR-influential artists from the ECTO PEOPLE... Debbie Harry? No, sir. Madonna? No... bless her, I love her... NO. We can't go adding everybody who's been putting out albums since 1978 just because they have tits... I'm sorry, but no. "woman" does not equal Ecto, y'all. The way the list is now, the Goddess list I mean, each Goddess is on there for kind of a different reason, but the main thing is that they're all still putting out albums of new and groundbreaking material fairly regularly and still have tour schedules and things (Kate Bush being excepted from that criteria, who is I believe on the pantheon because of her acutely inalienable influence upon Tori and Happy etc), so to include the DECADES is just totally going to fuck everything up... listen... the very first time I came upon the Ectoguide more than a year ago, I found the pantheon and was of course already very familiar with Tori and Sarah M and I knew who Kate was... and so I was totally interested to listen to all of these other people who were apparently good enough to be put on the level of Tori etc... that's the main deal... these Goddesses are Ecto's best and brightest... and so we can't go adding every last woman who's happened to write a song... and we also can't all get pissy because our personal favorites aren't on there... as much as I worship Polly Jean Harvey, she isn't one of the epitomes of Ecto, let's face it, she isn't... but I love her... but I understand that she doesn't need to be up there... Björk also... she's ecto, but she's not Ecto... I'd love to see some of my other favorite weirdos get this kind of lauding, but they don't deserve it insofar as they aren't Ecto... let's go ahead and admit as Ectophiles that the vast majority of the music we listen to is very VERY obscure... okay? Can we say that together now? Happy Rhodes? Who the hell is that? Nobody on the street has ever heard of her... same with Veda, same with Jane Siberry, and really, when you get down to it, same with Tori Amos... she's been getting mad name recognition lately... but it's surprising to me as a fan and "cult member" to find her face plastered up everywhere, because the most entertaining thing about Tori in the beginning (and I've been listening for a LONG time) besides her wonderful piano and freak-girl-faerie-sticker-let's-do-it lyrics was the fact that NOBODY know who the fuck she was. And now, that's the fun of Sarah Slean and Kym Brown and Emily Bezar and Lauren Hoffman and Veda Hille and Katell Keineg... are y'all getting the picture? We have to put our favorites as a GROUP into the pantheon, and it has to be the people whose music has been and continues to influence us and shape the way we think and approach music itself and everything... every woman in the Goddess category right now belongs there, period. There are a few girls who could stand entrance. I'm not even going to mention any names anymore, just so I don't get my ass more chewed than it may already get... but all of these extra people... Joni Mitchell? Not obscure enough. SORRY, but not obscure enough. Sarah M isn't even obscure AT ALL anymore, but it didn't used to be that way... remember the _Touch_ days? Lord, I do. Scary! And nobody knew who in Christ she was. Nobody had any idea except the folks in the coffeehouses in, like, Nova Scotia. Or wherever. We have to keep it here, folks, Ecto is all about (and forgive me) exclusionary obscurity... we *like* the fact that you have think about the lyrics we listen to, and that most people, you know, "just wouldn't understand", and we like it. We also like being able to drop the names of our Fabulous Utmost Goddess Favorites and have the girl who's way into Top 40 radio just sort of blink and feel uncool for not knowing. It's just how we are... we're music fans, yes, but we're also nerds, people, and so we like having our own little nerd language, our code, and this is one really good way for us, this obscure amazing wonderful transformative music that nobody else in the fucking world has ever heard of or will ever hear of. It's a painful truth, but it's still the truth. So come on. John ===== "However, for all you S&M fans out there, fill your jodhpurs with whatever tickles your fancy, xoxo." - - Kym Brown __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 08:26:05 -0600 From: Amy Lotsberg Subject: Meredith LaVande http://www.meredithlevande.com/ http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/41/meredith_levande.html ~Amy "Cuz when I look down I miss all the good stuff and when I look up I just trip over things." ~Ani DiFranco (As Is) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 09:39:52 EST From: Songbird22@aol.com Subject: Re: KRISTIN HERSH iflin@sirius.com writes: > and if DIY and business savvy is factor in including someone in > the pantheon, KRISTIN was one of the first artists to exploit and what is DIY?!?! Thanks, Jessica www.aquezada.com | www.mp3.com/jessweiser ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 08:43:53 -0600 From: Amy Lotsberg Subject: Sorry Sorry for the previous post! I meant to send those links to myself at home and I hit the wrong thing...oops! I did go to her (Meredith LaVande's) web site by suggestion of Nick and I really liked her! ~Amy "Cuz when I look down I miss all the good stuff and when I look up I just trip over things." ~Ani DiFranco (As Is) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 09:46:23 -0500 (EST) From: Larne Pekowsky Subject: Re: Ecto Goddesses Jeff Hanson wrote: > Siouxsie Sioux - it seems she deserves some sort of > title, though goddess may not be it I think by any of the criteria mentioned (originality, influence on other artists, longevity) Siouxsie qualifies as Goddess. However, I'm not at all convinced she qualifies as Ecto. - Larne [Seeing the Creatures on Wednesday!] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 1999 07:08:33 -0800 From: Neile Graham Subject: Re: KRISTIN HERSH At 9:39 AM -0500 11/1/99, Songbird22@aol.com wrote: >iflin@sirius.com writes: > >> and if DIY and business savvy is factor in including someone in >> the pantheon, KRISTIN was one of the first artists to exploit and > >what is DIY?!?! Do it yourself! A British-ism that is crossing the Atlantic more and more. - --Neile - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Neile Graham ...... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ....... neile@sff.net Les Semaines: A Weekly Journal . http://www.sff.net/people/neile/semaines The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music ....... http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 09:55:20 -0500 From: Bill Adler Subject: Re: Sorry Amy, Don't be sorry about your mis-post. It directed me to the MP3 site where I was able to sample Meredith LaVande's songs. I liked them and ordered a CD. - --Bill At 08:43 AM 11/1/99 -0600, you wrote: >Sorry for the previous post! I meant to send those links to myself at home >and I hit the wrong thing...oops! >I did go to her (Meredith LaVande's) web site by suggestion of Nick and I >really liked her! > >~Amy >"Cuz when I look down >I miss all the good stuff and when I look up >I just trip over things." >~Ani DiFranco (As Is) > Bill Adler www.adlerbooks.com ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V5 #363 **************************