From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V5 #315 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Tuesday, September 21 1999 Volume 05 : Number 315 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: ectofest recordings - hold the phone (loooong) ["Chris Montville" ] Re: Lori Carson ecto-digest V5 #312 ["Paul Huesman" ] Re: ectofest recordings - hold the phone (loooong) [Andrew Fries ] Re: Scrappy Bitches / Emm Gryner in NYC [Damon des Jumeaux ] Re: Veda Hille [meredith ] Re: ectofest recordings - hold the phone [meredith ] RE: ectofest recordings - hold the phone ["Timm Lyons" ] Re: ectofest recordings - hold the phone (loooong) [neal copperman ] Re: Scrappy Bitches / Emm Gryner in NYC [Joseph Zitt ] Sarah Slean on Mountain Stage [Steve I ] Rachael Sage News...NYC Show This Friday! [SpiritWe@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 01:57:53 -5000 From: "Chris Montville" Subject: Re: ectofest recordings - hold the phone (loooong) > I'm sure no one wants to jeopardize any future concerts, or to upset > any of the artists (not that you were even accusing anyone of that). > Can you tell us anything about how these discussions are progressing? > Or if there has been any feedback (positive or negative) from any of > the artists involved? > > The simple reality is that, with the artist's support, we can make > something nice and earn more money for the charities (or to offset > ectofest debt.... hey, can someone comment on the alleged debt from > the show? Did it actually lose money? Did the charities make money? > If so to either, how much?). If the artist's are opposed to this, > then it's probably not a great idea to do anything "official". But > the artists should realize that it was a heavily booted show, and in > the small world that is ecto, a show that is generating enthusiastic > interest. And if they do not want to be part of a disc, that's fine. Gack. My paranoia has become reality. Here's my obscenely verbose take on the situation: Many artists tacetly allow people to record their performances. Fans who sometimes then bother to trade the recordings already own the released albums, and the artists get build a more loyal fanbase. However, none of this is really legal. Most performers are in contracts with record labels who own the distribution of their music, and the artists (understandably) want to maintain creative control over what get circulated on a wide scale. I assume that when audience recording and tape trading are permitted by artists, it is because they don't see any real harm in it. Audio tape copies degenerate after a couple of generations, and anyone who is asking to tape is probably a pretty serious fan anyways. Like most people, I don't tape when there is any indication that it would not be allowed, and I ask permission when it is convenient. I guess MP3's kind of blur the line. I did think about it a bit before offered ectofest, and I figured since ecto was a small friendly community of people who would mostly be trapped behind 56k modems, it wouldn't be any different from tape trading. In retrospect, I probably overstepped my bounds. Maybe the fact that I was trying to do something nice will neutralize my karma. I can understand why the discussion about an "ectofest CD" has caused problems. Suddenly, its possible for an fan to tape a show and then have it released as a quasi-official CD of somewhat- better-than-marginal quality. I can only imagine that this would give an artist a serious feeling of violation (how would you feel if someone took money for a recording of your copywritten work and distributed it to 100 people without your pemission?), and could cause problems with record companies. WE know that ecto is fuzzy-blue and harmless, but I can also understand that would set off some serious warning bells. I doubt it is a matter of negotiating with anyone. I can't imagine that any of these very artists would even consider allowing multiple copies of their impromtu remarks and silly jokes floating around on official-looking CDs with crappy digital audience-taped sound replete with side conversations and feedback. As far as I know, that sort of thing just isn't done. > However their performances will be available to anyone in the same way > boots are available on lists more isolated from performers and in the > world in general. That is, anyone can ask anyone who has one (which, > right now, includes anyone who taped it OR downloaded it), and will > probably get a copy. All artist reluctance will do is push it > underground, and remove any charitable contributions from the > activity. I think this sort of activity is "underground" for a reason -- it keeps the scale small, and limits trades to those who are "hard-core" fans and truely interested. I suspect that most artists perfer it that way, and many are probably artistically or even legally obligated not to encourage open distribution of live concerts. Its amazing how a bunch of intelligent, well-meaning folk can muck something up, isn't it? As far as the big picture goes, though, the discussion itself was harmless, and there were a ton of issues to be settled before anything "bad" would have happened. Next time, we'll all know better. Chris. +-------------------------------------------------------+ | Chris Montville / cmontvil@eden.rutgers.edu | +--------------------------+----------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 03:00:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike Matthews Subject: Today's your birthday, friend... i*i*i*i*i*i i*i*i*i*i*i *************** *****HAPPY********* **************BIRTHDAY********* *************************************************** *************************************************************************** ******************** Joe Zitt (jzitt@humansystems.com) ******************** *************************************************************************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Joe Zitt Sat September 20 1958 Will Hack for CDs Ani DiFranco Wed September 23 1970 Virgo Paul Kim Sat October 01 1977 fetal position JoAnn Whetsell Fri October 01 1976 Pendulum William Gill Wed October 05 1960 A wide-eyed wanderer Dan Riley Sun October 08 1961 Libra Neile Graham Wed October 08 1958 pen Quenby M. Chunco Tue October 08 1968 Crunchy Frog Mike Garland Wed October 08 1952 Creature_of_the_Night Irvin Lin Tue October 09 1973 Libra Michael C. Berch Wed October 10 1956 No parking Chris Gagnon Sat October 10 1970 Libra Wolfgang Drotschmann Thu October 13 1966 Waage Gracescape Fri October 13 1967 unbalanced Brian Bloom Tue October 14 1969 spam Erik N. Johnson Tue October 16 1962 Handle with Care Kim Klouda Tue October 17 1967 Libra Anthony Amato Sat October 20 1973 Libra - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 07:23:10 -0500 From: "Paul Huesman" Subject: Re: Lori Carson ecto-digest V5 #312 Paul Huesman@BSSBNOTES 09/20/99 07:23 AM anyone know when lori carson's album is coming out? i read it was supposed to be late aug. but i guess it got bumped. Just getting around to checking my mail. Sorry if this has been posted already. Lori Carson's new CD is supposed to be out Sept. 28. Check out http://www.loricarson.com/main.html - - Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:06:05 +1000 From: Andrew Fries Subject: Re: ectofest recordings - hold the phone (loooong) On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, Chris Montville wrote: >Its amazing how a bunch of intelligent, well-meaning folk can muck >something up, isn't it? Sorry but I don't see what and where did we muck up? Nothing happened yet; we just discussed making a disk for our own use and we all agreed, I believe, that the artists in question should be asked for a permission to publish their recordings even in this limited way. That's as far as it went, and for all we know they might agree without any problem at all... Let's not panic, and just wait and see how it goes before we start blaming ourselves... ummm, for what, again? - ------------------------------------------------------ "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." --Helder Camara - ------ http://www.zip.com.au/~afries/hall.html ------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:28:00 -0400 From: Steve I Subject: Scrappy Bitches / Emm Gryner in NYC Hiya folks... saw the Scrappy Bitches show Sat night. Lots of fun as usual. They're doing a lot more songs together this time around, especially during Kinnie's set. They also do a cute little intro song and another cute little song to close out the show. Once again, I was inordinately tempted to grab a Bitches shirt (but again resisted the urge). Saw Sarah Harmer in the audience. Neile wrote, re: Veda's new disc: >Well, I hadn't hear the new songs as often as Meth has, and frankly none of >them had made that big an impression on me. After my experience with _Here >is a picture_, though, I've learned to just keep listening, as familiarity Agree with Neile on both counts here. Nothing on the new disc has really come out and grabbed me like some of the songs on _Path of a Body_ and _Spine_ did the first time, but with Veda repeated listens almost always pay off with greater and very durable appreciation in the long run. Changing topics slightly, has anyone noticed that the "spine" of _Path of a Body_ on the side that you open the disc has the pronunciation of Veda's name and the title of the disc printed on it? "vei'da hi'lee". I just noticed it a month ago, after owning it for an embarrassing number of years. In my defense, on the side that faces out in my CD rack, it reads normally (veda hille). - --------- All you NYC area ectophiles, please check out Emm Gryner at Fez on Friday. I have 8pm written down, that may be doors opening time, but I'm not sure. She'll be playing with Holly Palmer. Emm's been one of my local faves for a long time, and the material on her latest disc, Science Fair, is her best stuff yet. If you do go be sure to say hello for me! Steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:49:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Damon des Jumeaux Subject: Re: Scrappy Bitches / Emm Gryner in NYC > saw the Scrappy Bitches show Sat night. Lots of fun as usual. They're > doing a lot more songs together this time around, especially during > Kinnie's set. They also do a cute little intro song and another cute > little song to close out the show. Once again, I was inordinately tempted > to grab a Bitches shirt (but again resisted the urge). Saw Sarah Harmer in > the audience. heh... when i saw them together, i *had* to get that shirt... it's priceless. unfortunately it's also a little too small for it to be comfortable on me (i tend to like t-shirts that hang down to my knees ;) so i don't actually *wear* it... but i had to *have* it. :) > Neile wrote, re: Veda's new disc: > >Well, I hadn't hear the new songs as often as Meth has, and frankly none of > >them had made that big an impression on me. After my experience with _Here > >is a picture_, though, I've learned to just keep listening, as familiarity > > Agree with Neile on both counts here. Nothing on the new disc has really > come out and grabbed me like some of the songs on _Path of a Body_ and > _Spine_ did the first time, but with Veda repeated listens almost always > pay off with greater and very durable appreciation in the long run. i'm still in a listening stage as well, and couldn't really pull out individual songs on which to comment yet, but what i do know is that i do really like the album overall thus far! like meth, i find the `noodlings' a little annoying in places, but not to the point of distraction. i'm just listening to it now, actually, and i like this track - 3xthin. and i know there are lots of others too, but i won't be able to name them until the cd moves on to them ;) _here is a picture_, unfortunately, never really had a chance to grow on me properly. at the time i got it, i didn't have much music listening opporunity in general, so i didn't get to really `study' it. and now it's relegated to the `not new' pile, so ... someday i'll have to pull it out and really listen properly. > Changing topics slightly, has anyone noticed that the "spine" of _Path of a > Body_ on the side that you open the disc has the pronunciation of Veda's > name and the title of the disc printed on it? "vei'da hi'lee". I just > noticed it a month ago, after owning it for an embarrassing number of > years. In my defense, on the side that faces out in my CD rack, it reads > normally (veda hille). heh, yes, that was the first thing i noticed about it actually, being a linguistics buff. it's actually in the IPA too - hence the small cap I and the upside-down e. :) - -damon Damon Harper des Jumeaux _/>_ "Verbosity is the refuge of damon@jumeaux.bc.ca __\ /__ those who have nothing Les Jums: jumeaux@jumeaux.bc.ca \ / original to say." http://www.jumeaux.bc.ca/damon/ |/||\| - Weldon, Reasonable Doubts ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:03:32 EDT From: Songbird22@aol.com Subject: Re: Scrappy Bitches / Emm Gryner in NYC Steve writes: > All you NYC area ectophiles, please check out Emm Gryner at Fez on Friday. > I have 8pm written down, that may be doors opening time, but I'm not sure. > She'll be playing with Holly Palmer. Emm's been one of my local faves for > a long time, and the material on her latest disc, Science Fair, is her best > stuff yet. If you do go be sure to say hello for me! Yup, it's at 8 pm. Emm is opening and Holly Palmer is performing "Until the End of the world"... and a little fairy told me that Ms. Gryner may be joining Holly to back her up... You have to have a reservation for the fez, though, so call soon... And if you're in the NYC area, come out to my CD release party on Saturday night! It should be fun and it's only $3. Starts at 10, should be over by 11:30. Tricia Concepcion (detroit), rayanne, and michelle (both Toronto) are opening... :) Jessica www.aquezada.com/jess | www.earbuzz.com/jessicaweiser ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:20:02 EDT From: Suzannecerquone@cs.com Subject: Veda Hille I know Meth posted something about how to order Veda's new CD, but I lost it. Can Meth or anyone else help me out? I'm not seeing it on the usual online music sites... Thanks, Suzanne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:13:52 EDT From: "JoAnn Whetsell" Subject: canadian goddesses Hi. I haven't tried this myself yet, but will soon. I think what Meth had said was that if you went to Veda's site at http://www.n0place.com/veda/ and print out the order form and mail it in with the usual amount of money but requesting the new album, that would probably be ordered. Someone also mentioned that veda should have a new site up sometime this month hopefully. vedahille.com Other news... my Siberry trilogy FINALLY arrived today. The packaging is really gorgeous. I haven't had a chance to listen yet, but I already love Child, and I know I'll love Tree because I attended all 4 of those shows. So Lips is the only one I don't know. Anyway... JoAnn ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:55:25 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: Veda Hille Hi! Suzanne inquiredL >I know Meth posted something about how to order Veda's new CD, but I lost it. > Can Meth or anyone else help me out? I'm not seeing it on the usual online >music sites... JoAnn was right - if you print out the order form on Veda's site (http://www.n0place.com/veda/order.html) and write in the title of the new CD and enclose the same amount of money as for the others (US$16), you will get our CD. This has been confirmed to work. Or, you can try A&B Sounds, though they've got it listed as a "special order" so it'll probably take a while. Once the new site is up at vedahille.com (should be within the next couple weeks or so), the order form will include the new CD. Every single one of you needs to do this, btw. :) And Damon, your assignment for next week is to dig out _Here Is A Picture_ and listen to it on headphones in a dark, quiet room. Report back on your findings and on how your life has been changed. ;> One final note, for those NYC-area folk who may have noticed Veda's name in the printed edition of the Knitting Factory Knotes as playing at the Old Office on October 6: I'm not sure of that's actually happening or not. It's not listed on the web calendar. I'm trying to get the scoop and will post here what I find out. Wishing the Scrappy Bitch Tour were coming to my area this time, +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY: the Veda Hille mailing list *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:24:27 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: ectofest recordings - hold the phone Hi! Neal inquired: >I'm sure no one wants to jeopardize any future concerts, or to upset any of >the artists (not that you were even accusing anyone of that). Can you tell >us anything about how these discussions are progressing? Or if there has >been any feedback (positive or negative) from any of the artists involved? I received some negative feedback yesterday, which prompted my note. I haven't had a chance to check with all of the artists yet, though. >hey, can someone comment on the alleged debt from the show? Did >it actually lose money? Did the charities make money? If so to either, >how much?). Unfortunately, ectofest ended up losing a chunk of money for the charities. We would have needed at least twice the number of people through the gate than we actually got in order to make money for them. Based on the number of ticket reservations placed with Chuck prior to the event, we were sure going in that we would have enough people there to break even and then some - -- but never underestimate the power of the human mind to completely flake out, I guess. Sigh. To make matters worse, hardly anyone who did come through the gate actually bought anything. The food tents tanked, and we have enough t-shirts, hats, posters, and bumper stickers left over to clothe and decorate the shelters of every flood victim in North Carolina. We're trying to work out the logistics of fulfillment before we make this official, but I can let you all know that we *are* going to be selling the t-shirts (both the light blue and dark blue ones, the latter is more of a "limited edition" but I know people were saying they liked what the staff had on better), the hats, bumper stickers, and official ectofest posters via the web site soon. You can see what everything (but the posters, alas) looks like at . (Note: the posters are *very* limited (I think there may not be more than 20-25 left), and kids, they're worth it. Irvin Lin produced a true work of art -- when I took mine in over the weekend to get it framed, the workers at the frame shop were positively drooling over it.) We've also got some stuff we're going to put up for auction, probably at eBay (but if someone has a suggestion for a better online auction site, please let me know). Happy was kind enough to sign an official ectofest poster, as well as two MWABT flats for this purpose. Basically, the first ectofest was a big learning experience for us all (especially me). With the short amount of time we had to throw it together, we're all amazed it actually happened! Next year we'll have enough time to properly plan, and we have some ideas already that we hope will ensure that we can actually write the charities a big fat check at the end of the day. (Fortunately, the charities are still willing to hear the words "next year", which is a good thing. :) >If the artist's are opposed to this, then it's probably not a >great idea to do anything "official". Exactly. ectofest was a concert just like any other, and far be it from me to try to prevent any honest trading from happening! :} But as far as anything "official" goes (or anything where any money at all is going to change hands, even if it's just to reimburse cost), that's a very sticky situation that could have bad repercussions for ectofest the event down the road if things aren't handled properly. Like I said, I would love to be able to do a "best of" CD and sell it to help make this a positive thing for the charities. But there are discussions to be had with the artists and permissions to obtain first before anyone can even think about that. I don't want to start a big "ethics of recording and trading" debate here, either. I'm speaking as a festival organizer who has a responsibility to protect the reputation of the event so it can happen again, is all. I know nothing has gotten past the idle discussion stage, but even that discussion was starting to cause a problem, so I had to say something. I hope this clear things up... if not, any and all are welcome to e-me off-list so we don't clutter the room too much. +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY: the Veda Hille mailing list *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:14:57 -0700 From: "Timm Lyons" Subject: RE: ectofest recordings - hold the phone On Sun, 19 Sep 1999 at 15:37:58 meredith wrote: > While I personally love the idea of making a "best of" CD and > selling it > with all proceeds going to the charities, I've got some serious damage > control to run here before we can even think about making > that reality. > ectofest is intended to be a long-running event that has integrity. > Unfortunately, the discussions that have been going on here > this week are > seriously jeopardizing that. here, here. Thanks meredith, for your vote and for helping to avert a possible disaster in the making. I personally love the idea too, but the concept can become far more involved than folks realize. Several scenarios are possible with this venture: a) The artists approve, things are set in motion to make it happen and everyone's happy with a souvenir cd and the charities make some extra dough. b) The artists, unaware that this was even plausible, become a tad upset, making them reluctant to consider doing another such event. c) From here going forward, it becomes noticeably difficult to even tape at a show. _That_ would be a real bummer. This is sounding pretty involved. If the show was just Happy, things _might_ be different, however, you're dealing with several artists, and when money begins changing hands things start getting pretty involved. The artists have managers and record labels to answer to. They also have to answer to the performing rights and societies publishing agencies (ASCAP and BMI). Because my occupation involves music licensing, I think that this will be the biggest barrier here. To produce a cd that will be for sale, there will be contracts involved regarding who owns the masters and publishing for _each piece_ performed. One of ASCAP and BMI's functions is to PROTECT THE ARTISTS from being ripped off in these situations. If the proper legalities aren't worked out, these agencies don't send a "cease and desist" order, rather they slam someone with a huge lawsuit...and they never lose a case. I'm not a "license police" or anything of that nature, however ASCAP and BMI do have their own force of spies and police of sorts. I just feel that I should be sharing my knowledge in this area at this time to avert a disaster amongst folks with only good intentions. Taking this venture "underground" won't help things, if anything, it would most likely damage the relationships that have been so carefully developed thus far. I think it's time to take two steps back, and put yourself in the artists shoes. The fact alone that none of this was prearranged should speak for itself. On the other hand, if this doesn't work out, maybe it's time to direct the energy from this project into a campaign to make things happen on this level at the _next_ event. That way, there are no surprises or glitches for anyone involved. Also, I think that this should serve as a wake up call to Samson records. Folks are apparently clamoring to get their hands on some live Happy material. Howza 'bout folks writing to Samson to support the concept of a live Happy CD? When they finally get her "big" tour underway, it would be a great thing to tape it all and release a double live disc, or even add a live bonus disc to her following studio release. I'm not trying to be a party pooper here, but careful thought and planning are the reality in this case. I'm willing to own a bootleg just as much as the next fan, but again, the difference here lies in the fact that serious organizing will be occurring for money to be exchanging hands, and that's where it starts losing all integrity. just my .02 cents. timm lyons ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:44:08 -0400 From: neal copperman Subject: Re: Scrappy Bitches / Emm Gryner in NYC At 12:49 PM -0700 9/20/99, Damon des Jumeaux wrote: > That Steve Ito guy wrote: >> Changing topics slightly, has anyone noticed that the "spine" of _Path of a >> Body_ on the side that you open the disc has the pronunciation of Veda's >> name and the title of the disc printed on it? "vei'da hi'lee". I just >> noticed it a month ago, after owning it for an embarrassing number of >> years. In my defense, on the side that faces out in my CD rack, it reads >> normally (veda hille). Well, sure Steve, I noticed that immediately. There, feel silly now? :) Actually, I suspect I noticed it since I take apart my discs to fit them in the sleeves. So in that case, the phonetics is actually clearly visible when I look at the disc. >heh, yes, that was the first thing i noticed about it actually, being a >linguistics buff. it's actually in the IPA too - hence the small cap I >and the upside-down e. :) Great, so maybe you can help me. I was writing a paper at work today and wanted to include the upside-down e (that's a schwa, right?), but couldn't find it in any of the symbol tables in Microsoft Word. Can anyone help me? neal still shuffling ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:32:47 -0400 From: neal copperman Subject: Re: ectofest recordings - hold the phone (loooong) I hope I wasn't too harsh in my comments yesterday. I think I'll abstain myself from the conversation in the future (after clearing up a few misconceptions below), since I'm not really sure why I'm arguing it. I make the same arguments over and over again for musical openess on the list, and I never really see anyone back me up. And I'm not arguing for me. It's not like I'm begging to be given any of this stuff. I have it all. I go to the shows. I make tapes, and I'm given tapes. And I won't have any trouble getting copies of the ectofest shows. I just tend to feel that there are a lot of ectophiles out there - the lurkers, the people who aren't in the middle of things, the people in foreign countries (or even the west coast!), the people who occasionally accuse us of being cliquish - all Happy fans (and potential fans of the other ectofest artists) who would love a chance to hear her live. Lots of lists actually tree things. Hell, before Doug left and the tape dubbing project died, you could even get ectophillic tapes (why, even boots of concerts ) from a central source. Someone is always willing to give me copies of things, so I have no personal need for a tree. It just seems like a friendly, inclusive kind of thing. Rather than having to know people to get ahold of the music. At 1:57 AM -0400 9/20/99, Chris Montville wrote: >I doubt it is a matter of negotiating with anyone. I can't imagine >that any of these very artists would even consider allowing multiple >copies of their impromtu remarks and silly jokes floating around on >official-looking CDs with crappy digital audience-taped sound >replete with side conversations and feedback. As far as I know, >that sort of thing just isn't done. If there aren't negotiations to be done, then why didn't Meth just say that the artists are all opposed to the idea? Negotiations could include defining song selection, discussions on a limited ecto-only distribution, a cap on the number "officially" produced, or even a request to be left off entirely. Actually, I brought up the topic in advance of ectofest in hopes that those discussions could happen to enable the distribution of an official ectofest disc. I didn't foresee that people would offer such a thing on their own. I just thought it'd be a nice idea. I'm not really sure how these "crappy digital audience-taped" shows are different then boots before. No one is trying to pass these off as polished studio works. And I haven't gotten any homemade CD's yet (or even boots by big foreign companies) that were official looking. They look like homemade CD's. Sometimes they look quite nice, sometimes they look like crap. (And, actually, it's the homemade ones, the labors of love, that look better than the boots in the stores.) But you have an obviously homemade CD with less than stellar quality as your end product. Hmmmm, sounds just like a boot. >I think this sort of activity is "underground" for a reason -- it keeps >the scale small, and limits trades to those who are "hard-core" fans >and truely interested. I was talking about the world of ecto - which is already underground. I didn't make that explicitly clear, but believe me, there is no interest in the world at large for these discs. The difference between a treed disc on ecto, and underground trading on ecto, is probably only about 100 or so copies. Most people in the world aren't interested in boots. And, if offered the chance to buy a boot at half the price of the studio disc, would probably still elect to buy the studio disc. (Hey, these people go to Sam Goody's in the Mall to buy their 2 discs a year, so cost isn't really an issue.) I still firmly believe that boots do more good than harm for an artist. I'm not sure there is much point in trying to make that case, but I applaud people like Richard Thompson and King Crimson, who regularly release good quality live recordings so the hardcore fans have something to buy. And, the money goes back to the right people, rather than to people who are scratching an itch but don't have any right to the profits. Well, I think I'm done with this rant for awhile... my 98 cents worth, neal now shuffling over: Souvenir Folder of Beautiful Arlington VA - Tsunami Spirit - Vasen Mighty Rain - Susan McKeown and Lindsey Horner Tock - Yazbek Colossus (but not Building The ...) - Clark's Ditch ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:56:08 -0400 From: neal copperman Subject: Re: ectofest recordings - hold the phone At 8:24 PM -0400 9/20/99, meredith wrote: >Neal inquired: >>hey, can someone comment on the alleged debt from the show? Did >>it actually lose money? Did the charities make money? If so to either, >>how much?). > >Unfortunately, ectofest ended up losing a chunk of money for the charities. > We would have needed at least twice the number of people through the gate >than we actually got in order to make money for them. Please keep us informed if there is anything we can do. A number of people have commented that they thought the event was ridiculously underpriced. I'd certainly be happy to forward more money to the charities (or the organizers!) to offset the low ticket price. Just think, if everyone did that, you'd have the numbers you needed to break even at the gate! (Yeah, I'm not idealistic enough to think that's going to happen, but it's a nice thought.) Also, my somewhat skewed ethical sense dictates that I should reimburse someone for boots that I have (or will have eventually). Usually that means going out of my way to buy another new album by the artist (assuming there are any that I don't have), but I'm kean on the Dar Williams "pay my charity for my boots" concept too. (How much do you think a pair of Dar's boots would cost, anyway?) (um, if I make a suggestion more sweeping than that, I'll be involving myself in the discussion again, won't I?) Neal still shuffling ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:48:07 -0500 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: Scrappy Bitches / Emm Gryner in NYC On Mon, Sep 20, 1999 at 11:44:08PM -0400, neal copperman wrote: > Great, so maybe you can help me. I was writing a paper at work today and > wanted to include the upside-down e (that's a schwa, right?), but couldn't > find it in any of the symbol tables in Microsoft Word. Can anyone help me? You may have to use a different font. Take a look at http://www.sil.org/computing/catalog/encore_ipa.html (Font geeks of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but your ligatures.) - -- |> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <| | jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt | | Latest CD: Shekhinah: The Presence http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt | | Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:03:20 -0400 From: neal copperman Subject: Re: ramblings, reviews, & requests At 2:03 AM -0700 9/18/99, plegm master wrote: >ALUMINUM GROUP. why hasn't anyone told me about them before? >not exactly ECTOish (gasp. male singer!). but rather loungy fun. their >latest PEDALS features my friend EDITH FROST, but in truth i really >like their second album PLANO the best. fans of BELLE and >SEBASTIAN should check them out. intelligent lyrics, and fey sounding >vocals, think a loungey MORRISSEY, or a new wave sounding BELLE >and SEB. Hey, irvin, you should order yourself a copy of I Wanna Be Kate. The Aluminum Group opens that disc with a really fine version of L'amour Looks Something Like You. Plus, there's some other cool things on it too that I suspect you would enjoy. (I think I must have mentioned them when I ran into guitarist John Ridenour, who's worked with Ingrid Karklins and Susan Voeltz and maybe that whole Poi Dog collective, at the Angels of Light show in Chicago.) Neal shuffle shuffle shuffle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 01:18:20 -0400 From: Steve I Subject: Sarah Slean on Mountain Stage Hey folks, just got some exciting news from Heather... Sarah Slean's been invited to perform on the (US) nationally syndicated radio program Mountain Stage, in Charleston, West Virginia! She'll be taping on November 9. More details closer to the date! Steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 01:39:55 EDT From: SpiritWe@aol.com Subject: Rachael Sage News...NYC Show This Friday! GNYC-TV & J-Bird Records Present: **Rachael Sage** This Friday, September 24th, 9:00 pm @ CB's Gallery (313 Bowery, NYC) ...All artists featured at this show are being recorded and will appear on the upcoming GNYC-TV/J-Bird Records Compilation. Come support Rachael & make some personalized noise for posterity as she performs for her first ever online-distributed live recording! *Also appearing on the bill will be our friends "Amelia's Dream" & "Jake" among others, so come early and stay late! For more info contact: Lisa Cohen, MPress Records wickedroz@aol.com / 212.533.3443 * * * www.rachaelsage.com • www.electrosquire.com • www.humbucker.com/rachael ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V5 #315 **************************