From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V5 #69 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Thursday, February 25 1999 Volume 05 : Number 069 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Jewel boxes (was Re: New (to me) music) ["Joseph S. Zitt" ] Re: New Music Recommendation - Fleming & John [Patrick Moseley ] An Update on Jill :D [Riphug@aol.com] Re: trashmonk, ["N. Janee' Hunter" ] Re: trashmonk, ["N. Janee' Hunter" ] Re: Jewel boxes (was Re: New (to me) music) [Neal Copperman ] Re:Beth Orton [Songbird22@aol.com] Ecto compilation ["Foghorn J Fornorn" ] additions [meredith ] Re: pianists, keyboardists, etc *huff* [Bill Mazur ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:12:12 -0600 (CST) From: "Joseph S. Zitt" Subject: Re: Jewel boxes (was Re: New (to me) music) On Tue, 23 Feb 1999, Neile Graham wrote: > Mark Lowry wrote: > > >And while we're on that subject ... who has opinions on jewel cases? > > I do. They're too damn wide. Most of our have been donated to the public > library, and we keep discs fro any artist we have more than one disc from > in vinyl cases. We save one jewel box to put a name label in so we can > actually find artists we're looking for and voila! All our discs are still > in two bookcases rather than taking over our entire house. It's frustrating that, bulky and fragile as they are, it's actually muh cheaper, from what I've seen, to package CDs in them than in any other format. (Well, except for those envelope things, which, having no spine, disappear from view when placed on shelves.) We'd love to find a different, cost-effective package for our next CD. If shelving isn't an issue, those sleeve-like holders are good -- but from the one's that I've seen, while it's easy to store the booklets with them, they don't have enough room for the traycard, which are an important part of the packaging and I don't want to lose. - - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:10:04 -0800 (PST) From: Rubber DeNiro Subject: Re: New Music Recommendation - Fleming & John - ---Patrick Moseley wrote: > They're definitely a critic's > darling This surprises me. Any reviews you can point me to? > And I've > never minded even the most blatant stylistic ripoffs as long as the songs > themselves are original and interesting. I can't agree more. Some of my favorite artists have never written a song in their lives: they interpret others' writing, like an actor doesa script. And I'm thrilled about the rejuvenation that sampling has brought to pop music. And I love Spiritualized, whose music is basically a tribute to the grand cliches of 70s prog rock. I love it when an artist takes an old tool and makes a new thing with it. But F&J, in my opinion, do absolutely nothing new. In a perfect world (when I'm emperor) they'd be playing proms in suburban Aakron as a Pat Benatar tribute band. And I _like_ Pat Benatar. But I don't like tribute bands. > n.p. F&J's _The Way We Are_. And I won't apologize! And I'd never want you to. What I love most about Ecto is the diversity of perversities, as it were: I love reading opinions that differ from mine; sometimes I've even been persuaded to reconsider. The first few times I heard PJHarvey, I hated her stuff. Now I'd have her baby if I could. - --Charley n.p.i.m.h: _Harden_My_Heart_ by Quarterflash n.r.: _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:35:35 -0800 From: Neile Graham Subject: Re: Jewel boxes (was Re: New (to me) music) Joseph S. Zitt wrote: >It's frustrating that, bulky and fragile as they are, it's actually muh >cheaper, from what I've seen, to package CDs in them than in any other >format. (Well, except for those envelope things, which, having no spine, >disappear from view when placed on shelves.) We'd love to find a >different, cost-effective package for our next CD. > >If shelving isn't an issue, those sleeve-like holders are good -- but from >the one's that I've seen, while it's easy to store the booklets with them, >they don't have enough room for the traycard, which are an important part >of the packaging and I don't want to lose. The traycards fit easily in the ones we use. They're twice the width, and open in the middle (meaning they're made from a piece of vinyl the equivalent of 4 jewel boxes wide, and the outer edges are folded in to meet in the middle and the top and bottom are sealed, leaving the ends open in the middle to slip the booklet and disc & traycard in). The traycard and disc slide easily in one side and the booklet in the other (never a problem getting them to fit it under those little tabs), then they fold together once more to they're just a little bigger than a booklet. The only problem with them is that they slide if you stack too many of them on top of each other. Usually the odd single cd we have that don't have two discs by the artist and so we haven't graduated to vinyl holders & a name jewelbox divider will stabilize the pile. ;> FYI, here's the info about where we get ours: Cadence Cadence Building Redwood, NY 13679-9612 315-287-2852 They're simply called "cd Sleeves" the description is "compact disc plastic sleeves". They are $0.15 ea., or were the last time we bought some, sometime last year. Their web page is http://www.cadencebuilding.com/Cadence/CJR.html, but I don't think it mentions the sleeves. We heard about them from Art Liestman, and haven't at all regretted changing to them. A couple of other ectophiles have gotten and liked them, and I think one person (Neal?) got them and didn't much care for them. so everyone's mileage varies on this one. Not sure I'd use them to sell disc in, though--too few people are used to them, and they don't stack prettily enough for sales tables unless you keep them in a box. - --Neile - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Neile Graham ...... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ....... neile@sff.net Les Semaines: A Weekly Journal . http://www.sff.net/people/neile/semaines The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music ....... http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:52:32 -0500 From: Patrick Moseley Subject: Re: New Music Recommendation - Fleming & John >This surprises me. Any reviews you can point me to? I was afraid you'd ask me that. Can I just ask you to take my word for it? ;-) No? Well, to be honest their debut garnered very little reaction, but the handful of reviews I could find were all positive. Here's what Alternative Press said: "...Fleming & John explode with a big, grandiose production and a soaring female voice that can fill stadiums with broad, excessive emotions. It's pure, heavy gorgeousness, of a stripe known to fans of Heart and Eurythmics..." >And I'm thrilled about the rejuvenation that sampling >has brought to pop music. Here's the thing, though... you've mentioned sampling twice now, but to my knowledge (and ears), there's no sampling on F&J's debut at all. Unless I'm just totally unfamiliar with the music they're supposedly sampling, which is quite possible. But from what I've read and heard, all the music they've recorded is original...no sampling at all. And their arrangements are so thick and obviously a lot of thought went into the arrangments... Arrgh! I'm chuckling at myself because it's obvious we just have different (like polar-opposite) opinions of them, which is fine. Would it help at all to mention that F&J have worked with Ben Folds Five and Sixpence None the Richer, and that Ben Folds makes an arrangement cameo on their new one? Just out of curiousity, how did you end up with their CD in your possession at all if you so dislike them? >In a perfect >world (when I'm emperor) they'd be playing proms in suburban Aakron as >a Pat Benatar tribute band. And I _like_ Pat Benatar. But I don't like >tribute bands. Nah, in a perfect world, F&J's brand of off-beat pop would be a radio staple, and people like the Backstreet Boys would have no voice at all! >What I love most about Ecto is the >diversity of perversities, as it were: I love reading opinions that >differ from mine; sometimes I've even been persuaded to reconsider. >--Charley This I agree with totally. I'm sure you'd easily let me have my dose of F&J if I admitted to you all (with red cheeks) that my guilty pleasure is Ace of Base... a band of pure pop fluff and obvious derivitiveness that I absolutely adore, especially when it's workout time, and a group that probably couldn't be more NON-Ecto. Patrick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:12:54 -0600 (CST) From: "Joseph S. Zitt" Subject: Re: Jewel boxes (was Re: New (to me) music) On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Neile Graham wrote: > The traycards fit easily in the ones we use. They're twice the width, and > open in the middle (meaning they're made from a piece of vinyl the > equivalent of 4 jewel boxes wide, and the outer edges are folded in to meet > in the middle and the top and bottom are sealed, leaving the ends open in > the middle to slip the booklet and disc & traycard in). The traycard and > disc slide easily in one side and the booklet in the other (never a problem > getting them to fit it under those little tabs), then they fold together > once more to they're just a little bigger than a booklet. Yup, I've tried these. As you'd mentioned, I find keeping them on a shelf unwieldy. They tend to flop open and slide all over the place, but they do indeed hold everything. What I'd love to see would be the more common sleeve-based ones (I forget the brand name but they're everywhere) made just half an inch or so wider so that the tray card would fit in them. BTW, in addition to the sleeves, I've bought way too much stuff from Cadence :-) They're an invaluable source for obscure jazz-like things -- I found Anthony Braxton's "Willisau" 4-CD set there when everyone insisted that no more copies existed anywhere. They also run the very good North Country Distribution, which does a good job of getting stuff into Borders, etc. - - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:32:50 -0800 From: Neile Graham Subject: Re: Jewel boxes (was Re: New (to me) music) Joseph S. Zitt wrote: >Yup, I've tried these. As you'd mentioned, I find keeping them on a shelf >unwieldy. They tend to flop open and slide all over the place, but they do >indeed hold everything. Ours don't have the space to flop open, that's for sure. You obviously don't have enough cds! Let me tell you about this mailing list called ecto... - --Neile - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Neile Graham ...... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ....... neile@sff.net Les Semaines: A Weekly Journal . http://www.sff.net/people/neile/semaines The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music ....... http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:38:40 EST From: Riphug@aol.com Subject: An Update on Jill :D For those of you who have been wondering (I'll understand if the rest of you just go ahead and delete this)........ First of all, my apologies to anyone and everyone to whom I've appeared antisocial. Please know that if I've seemed to snub you, you haven't been singled out....I've been letting piles of mail go unanswered since about November, and have had my Instant Message service turned off nearly all of the time since then, too. I'm not going to get into any of the personal stuff that's been going on with me since I've become somewhat of a lurker.....as always, the personal side of my life has its ups and downs. All I'll tell you is never, never, never stop taking your antidepressants cold turkey -- without consulting your therapist! As some of you know, I've started a freelance editing business. Some of you have even had enough faith in me and have been kind enough to send a bit of work my way, and I thank you! So.....what I'm doing businesswise is freelance editing, writing, indexing, research, and book reviewing.....and other related aspects of publishing/communications that happen to come my way. I feel very fortunate to be able to thank my internet friends for helping me to get started, specifically Michael Moore (a former member of FTE) and Adrian Brassington (a former member of harbinger). Adrian gave me the opportunity to collaborate on his most magnificent (yet-to-be-published) novel, and Michael helped to get me connected with Book-of-the-Month Club, for whom I now work as a freelance manuscript reader/reviewer. Because of those two people....and because of all the support I've received from so many of you.....I am now a regular contributor to BOOK Magazine -- a brand new literary magazine based in Chicago. Yes, I'm published! ;-) If you have the time and interest, I hope you'll take a look at the two reviews I have up on the internet (so far): Book - The Magazine for the Reading Life (Go to "Capsules" and look for my review of the book titled "Nola.") IN PLANE VIEW (Click on "Reviews" -- the link to my review of this book is near the bottom of the page.) Well....I won't bore you all any longer with this self-centered horn tooting.....but thought this would be the easiest way to let you know why I've been rather invisible for so long. Unfortunately, I can't participate in my music mailing lists nearly as much as I used to enjoy....but I *do* miss you all. And I thank you for the ego-boosting support you've always given to me.... *share the music with hugs and kisses all around*, Jill :D the editor's mark (website coming soon!) 6276 Mere Drive Mason, OH 45040 (513) 459-7506 or (513) 509-2792 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:57:11 PST From: "N. Janee' Hunter" Subject: Re: trashmonk, For more information on Trashmonk, see below page... http://www.serve.com/brenta/nlc/trashmonk.html (Some copies have already leaked out. The full album should be available by mid-March in the UK and in the US in April) Janee' > >On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, girl with the curious hair wrote: > >> trashmonk: this one stood out more than any others. it feels like it was recorded underwater, his voice is absolutely hypnotic, it truly does sound like elliot smith produced by the beastie boys, or bob dylan with samplers. then i find out this guy wrote songs with pink floyd and did that song in the 80's, life in a northern town. does anyone have any more information about this guy? the magazine came with a short interview, but i'm really interested in how his album, 'mona lisa overdrive' is.... >Yup, the guy used to be with The Dream Academy, which ranked among the much-mentioned here in days of yore (or perhaps days of mine :-]). He was featured on one of those ubiquitous VH1 "Where Are They Now?" shows. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:08:37 PST From: "N. Janee' Hunter" Subject: Re: trashmonk, For more information on Trashmonk, see below page... http://www.serve.com/brenta/nlc/trashmonk.html (Some copies have already leaked out. The full album should be available by mid-March in the UK and in the US in April) Janee' > >On Mon, 22 Feb 1999, girl with the curious hair wrote: > >> trashmonk: this one stood out more than any others. it feels like it was recorded underwater, his voice is absolutely hypnotic, it truly does sound like elliot smith produced by the beastie boys, or bob dylan with samplers. then i find out this guy wrote songs with pink floyd and did that song in the 80's, life in a northern town. does anyone have any more information about this guy? the magazine came with a short interview, but i'm really interested in how his album, 'mona lisa overdrive' is.... >Yup, the guy used to be with The Dream Academy, which ranked among the much-mentioned here in days of yore (or perhaps days of mine :-]). He was featured on one of those ubiquitous VH1 "Where Are They Now?" shows. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 12:54:08 -0700 (MST) From: Neal Copperman Subject: Re: Jewel boxes (was Re: New (to me) music) On the Cadence CD sleeves: On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Neile Graham wrote: > changing to them. A couple of other ectophiles have gotten and liked them, > and I think one person (Neal?) got them and didn't much care for them. so > everyone's mileage varies on this one. Wasn't me. I use them and love them. Ever since that first visit many years ago when I saw how Neile and Jim were storing their discs. Many of my friends hate them though, which is really their problem. THey don't hate them enough not to borrow my discs though. Jeff Wasilko didn't like them for pretty much the same reasons Joe said. He didn't think they were stable enough. I haven't bought any in years cause I bought all of Jeff's (something like 700 or 1000). I have a slight worry that sliding discs in and out of the sleeves scratches them. I think this probably is the case, though it doesn't seem to do enough damage to effect playability. > Not sure I'd use them to sell disc in, though--too few people are used to > them, and they don't stack prettily enough for sales tables unless you keep > them in a box. I wouldn't sell discs in them though, at least, not if I wanted to display them. I think it would be ok for mail order, though people might be upset when they received their discs. Many people seem to have a strong negative reaction to them. A small number, like me, thought they were wonderful and immediately recognized what their advantages are. However, I find nothing beats the jewel box for flipping through cd's in a used store. Places that just have the covers seem really awkward to me. Which is kind of funny, since that's the complaint I get the most about them. People think it's hard to browse my collection. I don't have a problem though. I love how I can store 3 times as many cd's in one place, and can just grab 20 or 30 discs and throw them into my suitcase and still have room for clothes. On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Joseph S. Zitt wrote: > Yup, I've tried these. As you'd mentioned, I find keeping them on a shelf > unwieldy. They tend to flop open and slide all over the place, but they do > indeed hold everything. This is certainly true if you just stand a dozen of them up. BUt if you cram hundreds of them on a shelf, they have plenty of bulk. I keep the singles, multi-disc sets, and various oddities in cardboard in their original containers, which helps add a bit of stability too. neal np: Holly Cole - Girl Talk ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 14:32:18 -0600 (CST) From: "Joseph S. Zitt" Subject: Re: Jewel boxes (was Re: New (to me) music) On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Neal Copperman wrote: > > On the Cadence CD sleeves: > I wouldn't sell discs in them though, at least, not if I wanted to display > them. I think it would be ok for mail order, though people might be upset > when they received their discs. Many people seem to have a strong > negative reaction to them. A small number, like me, thought they were > wonderful and immediately recognized what their advantages are. However, > I find nothing beats the jewel box for flipping through cd's in a used > store. Places that just have the covers seem really awkward to me. If I recall correctly, Cadence offers $$ off the shipping charges if they can send you your order in the sleeves rather than the jewel boxen. I haven't taken advantage of this though. I have a few, and may try storing my CD-Rs in them, since I've found that, on the one hand the blank that I get with jewel cases have uniformly cheezy cases, and the ones on spindles are cheaper. > This is certainly true if you just stand a dozen of them up. BUt if you > cram hundreds of them on a shelf, they have plenty of bulk. I keep the > singles, multi-disc sets, and various oddities in cardboard in their > original containers, which helps add a bit of stability too. *nod* It might help if I test them with a whole bunch of CDs... n.p. Gorguts - Obscura - - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:37:34 -0500 (EST) From: cos@wbrs.org (Ofer Inbar) Subject: Re: Male Vocalist recommendation I just skimmed this thread, and saw barely any mention of Richard Shindell. He's got a voice that does something undefinable. I can't describe it, but it really catches my attention and holds my interest, no matter what he's singing. In all the direct comparisons I've had a chance to hear, where I can listen to the same song sung by him or by someone else, I've always preferred his version (over Dar Williams, James Keelaghan, Robert Earl Keen, ...) And along with moxy fruvous, The Nields, and Southern Rail, my Richard Shindell mix tape is one of my favorite driving tapes, that I can use to keep myself awake and fend off boredom on long drives across such exciting terrain as I-90 in upstate New York :) I'd also like to put in a plug for a Boston area local, Vance Gilbert. He's got tremendous power and depth in his voice. A male counterpart of someone like Trina Hamlin or Mica Richards. There are a few songs he usually does without sound reinforcement. He steps away from the mic, and can still fill the room. I've even seen him pull it off outdoors, at Falcon Ridge Folk Festival. See him live if you can. -- Cos (Ofer Inbar) -- cos@polyamory.org cos@leftbank.com -- WBRS (100.1 FM) -- info@wbrs.org http://www.wbrs.org/ "I'm going down to the hollow, where the trees meet the soul" -- Trina Hamlin, Down to the Hollow ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:02:24 -0600 (CST) From: "Joseph S. Zitt" Subject: Re: Male Vocalist recommendation On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Ofer Inbar wrote: > He's got tremendous power and depth in his voice. A male counterpart Which reminds of someone else I haven't seen here (though he may have been in the longer lists): Brad Roberts of Crash Test Dummies. And, when he's crooning rather than barking, Iggy Pop. n.p. Prince and the Revolution: 1999: The New Master - - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:52:07 -0500 (EST) From: "Donald G. Keller" Subject: Apple/Vega/vocal Perusing the liner notes for Fiona Apple's =Tidal=...as a matter of fact there is =one= song ("Criminal") where piano is credited to someone else besides her. (The guitarist plays tack piano on several tracks, but that's a slightly different instrument.) The other track where she isn't credited with piano has no piano credited. Just for the record. I've run into this before, so I shouldn't be as surprised as I am at how the bulk of Suzanne Vega fans dismiss =Days of Open Hand=, which is not only my favorite Suzanne Vega album, but was my favorite pop album of that year (I probably heard less than a dozen, to be fair--I was heavily into 20th century classical music at that time). And the opening track, "Tired of Sleeping," is my single favorite Suzanne Vega song--I was so glad she played it at her Knitting Factory show last year. Basically, I think the first two (rather similar) albums have some classic songs, but are fairly uneven; and =99.9= is really interesting but a little out of the way of what I usually like. And =Nine Objects of Desire= is so bland I lent it to a friend and haven't missed it. It's not that I love everything on =Days of Open Hand=; there are a few tracks I skip. But it's the one I go back to most often. The fave male vocalist bit really stumped me; I was beginning to wonder if I even =had= a favorite, since every male artist I liked (Neil Young for example) had a serviceable voice at best which conveyed the song but little more. Well, I finally settled on Roy Orbison, which is distressingly retro of me. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 20:00:21 EST From: Songbird22@aol.com Subject: Re:Beth Orton In a message dated 2/24/99 8:41:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, bravegirl@earthlink.net writes: > Finally, I don't know what's wrong with me, but a year and a half later > I've discovered Beth Orton's "Trailer Park." It's freakin' gorgeous. I > can't get it out of my player. Can someone fill me in on when her new > album is due? I know it was mentioned numerous times here, but I was > paging down before--DUH! Central Reservation is the title of the album, and it was actually supposed to be out in early march but I've heard it's been moved back... It's already been reviewed in SPIN and JANE magazines... in Jane it got 4 stars, I believe... Spin says she has the voice of an angel but nothing to say... Hopefully it will be out SOON. I've been listening to a boot of the Sessions performance and it's making me crave new Beth :) Do i dare watch the grammys?? :) jessica http://adam.nettfriends.com/Jess ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 23:23:00 -0500 From: "Foghorn J Fornorn" Subject: Ecto compilation OK, I've read/skimmed my mail since last Sunday, and I have the following list of people who either have demos or want to do new demos for an ecto compilation: Jessica Weiser [Songbird22@aol.com] John Drummond [johnxxiii@yahoo.com] Heather Russell [hrussell@bellsouth.net] Joseph S. Zitt [jzitt@humansystems.com] Holly J Tominack [htominack@erols.com] "Stimulus Bound" Bill Mazur [wpm@value.net] and Katheleen Michaels If I missed your response please resend, I looked at all mail addressed to me, and in ecto especially under this subject. I did see a couple posts from Bob Lovejoy and Bill Mazur about some sort of long distance collaboration. I'll let you kids sort out the logistics of that one. On Jessica's question of overseeing, I am willing to play that part until someone with more experience and/or resources who is willing to do this steps forward. I can burn CD Recordable discs on my computer, from WAV or MP3 files, or from cassette tape or vinyl. (Might be able to do reel tape if I rummaged thru the storage room :). I think I know people who could lend me a DAT or Minidisc player if needed. I have a scanner and a decent color inkjet printer and have printed my own CD compilation booklets, which have turned out resonably nice. Obviously there are far more professional ways to do all this, but they generally cost money. So until someone else speaks up, or this gets to be too much for me, I'm willing to continue the project as far as I can go with it... Next question(s): Anyone else have anything to contribute? To those who have expressed interest (or are yet to do so): Do you have any idea how much time your demo(s)/music will need on the CD? Anyone interested in working on cover and/or booklet art? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 23:43:21 -0500 From: meredith Subject: additions Hi! Favorite male vocalists? Well, I can think of just five male singers I'll voluntarily listen to: Richard Shindell, David Sylvian, Bruce Cockburn, Peter Gabriel, and Robyn Hitchcock, in that order. Robyn simply canNOT sing, but his songs are great, so I don't care. :) I agree with what Ofer said about Richard Shindell's voice -- he just makes me sit up and listen, no matter what he's doing. And David Sylvian has just an incredible, smooth, amber-honey-rich voice. Mmmm. I discovered Bruce Cockburn because I thought a David Sylvian song on an unlabeled compilation tape I got sixth-hand from someone in college was him (long story). And Peter Gabriel ... well, what can I say. Not much of a voice, but he does great things with it. Keyboard players? I don't think I can add any surprises here. Tori is the goddess. I agree with what folks said about Veda -- she sounds like herself, and she can integrate her piano into the band yet still let her virtuosity shine through where it counts. Both she and Tori can sweep me away with their keyboards alone - they don't have to sing a note. Sarah Slean is also quite amazing, but I haven't see her live so I don't know if she can give me *that* feeling yet. After seeing Beth Sorrentino play live last night I have to say that she's good, but I wouldn't call her great. All of her compositions sound alike and seem to be structured in the same way. But I like what she's doing, so hey. :) Speaking of the goddess, I know several ectophiles did watch Tori on Storytellers the other night (to those who missed it, it'll be on again at 6 pm EST on Friday), including myself and woj. She's such a freak. :) It was a great hour of television entertainment. Then to torture myself I sat through the Grammys tonight. I hadn't heard of Lauryn Hill before tonight - I take it I'm the only one? Where did she come from? Since she won Best New Artist (and everything else, it seems), does that mean she's going to disappear off the face of the earth now? Was the Ricky Martin who gyrated his way to a win in the Latin category the same Ricky Martin who was in Menudo when I was 13? I found it quite curious that every single performer won the award given out immediately following their performance. (Things that make you go "hmmm".) For me, the only cool moments were John Williams conducting a live rendition of the Star Wars theme, and Luciano Pavarotti's performance. Do I get my "snob" badge now? ;) Sleep beckons (the secret word is "barnacle"!)... +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:54:19 -0800 From: Bill Mazur Subject: Re: pianists, keyboardists, etc *huff* Paul Kim wrote: > oh, and i've had numerous years of theory training, and i couldn't come up > with the piano version of Possession if you gave me the full band version. > not in twenty minutes, not in 2 days not even in two weeks. Why? well, > partly because I don't have piano skills and you would need to know your > way around a piano in order to transcribe a song for it, and partly because > theory often means doodlysquat when applied to real world situations. you > apply theory in real life, and it sounds mechanical. if you have a vague > idea of theory and how it applies to your instrument, it sound better. you > can have no idea of any theory, but know what works on your instrument and > it can sound like heaven. Paul you make some very powerful points here. I especially like the last two sentences. I will relate my feelings on this subject from my own experiences. When I first was learning how to play guitar (at 18 years old), I learned little bits and pieces from friends who played and showed me things. The rest of my learning was based on self study by listening to music, playing songs from fake books, and playing with other musicians. Because I took a little bit of violin and sang in the choir at school I was able to apply that "vague idea of theory" to my playing. I wasn't thinking about theory though. I was playing from my heart and desire to play as well as I could. When I listen to things that I did back then, I find some parts that I am proud of because there was some passion and inventiveness going on, even though I didn't know exactly what I was doing half the time. I then ran into a point of great frustration where I felt that I couldn't learn anything more on my own. I went to take lessons, but became frustrated with the teachers covering ground in a rote manner that I had already learned on my own. I wanted to get to the good stuff. Finally, I found a teacher that cut to the chase and taught me all kinds of really great things. I then took what he taught me and started buying theory books and threw myself into them. For a awhile all I cared about was how music was constructed and was enamored with the theory. I kind of lost touch with the heart and passion that I played with when I didn't know very much. I refer to that period of time as the time I was "seduced by the dark side of the force". Eventually, I was able to strike a balance where I could draw on my knowledge when needed to figure something out, but I could also now play from the heart again with renewed confidence. I have a very good friend who is an outstanding singer (I put his name on my favorite singers list) and musician (guitarist, keyboards) who hasn't taken a musical lesson or theory class in his life. Yet, he is one of the most talented and capable musicians that I have had the pleasure of working with in my life. Isn't it true that Happy has had little, if any, formal musical training? Yet she is absolutely amazing! I really love your last sentence Paul. It is so true! I feel that I admire passion and honesty of expression first in a musician no matter what their instrument. I really think the voice is the most immediate, honest, and difficult instrument of them all. I DO also admire technical prowess, as long as the other elements are there as well. Technical prowess by itself just doesn't do a thing for me. "Luke, don't be seduced by the dark side!" ;-) > >You can have all the presence > >in the world and play one chord on a lap steel and make the universe > >cry, but that doesn't mean you're any kind of lap steel virtuoso > > I dunno...i think being able to make a tune out of one chord, being able to > make an audience cry out of one chord, takes an impressive amount of skill > and viruosity...presence factors into it...how many times do you hear some > blues guitarist jamming away and he gets stuck on one note and just repeats > it over and over and it doesn't suck? it just becomes intense and he might > vary the rhythm of that note and move it around in time, but it's still one > note and he's got you hooked with it because he's feeling all these > emotions through it. Really well stated Paul and Andrew! John D., you did stir up a good discussion here, which I'm fairly certain was your intention. You DO make sure it isn't boring and overrly polite around here. Using my best Bill Murray (from Stripes) voice : "You knucklehead, you're a wild man. I really want to party with you sometime." or something like that... ;-) ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V5 #69 *************************