From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V5 #68 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Wednesday, February 24 1999 Volume 05 : Number 068 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: pianists, keyboardists, etc *huff* [Paul Kim ] Re: keyboard players and melty male voices [Bill Mazur ] Re: pianists [Bill Mazur ] Re: Quick: Mock Turtles & Alice in Ectoland [Bill Mazur ] Re: Quick: Mock Turtles & Alice in Ectoland [kerrywhite@webtv.net (kerry ] Today's your birthday, friend... [Mike Matthews ] Re: Keyboardists ["Tim Finney" ] New XTC ["Neil K. Guy" ] Male Vocalist Recommendations/Keyboardists/Guitarists [G Perez ] Re: pianists, keyboardists, etc *huff* [Andrew Fries ] Re: pianists, keyboardists, etc *huff* [Michael Colford ] Re: New Music Recommendation - Fleming & John [Rubber DeNiro Subject: Re: pianists, keyboardists, etc *huff* At 04:30 PM 2/23/99 -0800, John Drummond wrote: >Y'all, > Here I am again, tooting a rare, ragy trumpet. FIONA APPLE, people. > Fiona's piano work is SO complex jazz. It's *real* jazz, she is >using such intense rich chords with added 7ths and 13ths and all sorts >of crazy shit like that, and her time changes... and God, it just >flows like water. Perhaps she *is* popular with the YM-reading crowd, >which of course means everyone on Ecto has to hate her ;p, and she >*is* young and tends to stick her foot in her mouth, but I love her >nonetheless. Her work connects with me on a much deeper level than >the work of most singer-songwriters out there. Paul being a farking devil's advocate here. hi :) I'll try not to pick too many nits since I'm a nitwit, but, well, I don't see/hear Fiona's piano playing as being complex jazz. Granted, I don't have an exceptional ear for piano work, especially in the jazz field (but goddamit, I'm learning! freakin' berklee...mumble grumble *grin*), and I can't very well relisten to Fiona's album right now since I gave it away more than a year ago, but I didn't find her piano playing to be all that. Sure, you can hear jazz influences in it, but...well..."real jazz"? 7ths and 13ths? I see 7ths as a member of most musics, especially blues...13ths (and 9ths) aren't necessarily an indicator of complex jazz...I assume that when you say "crazy shit like that", you might mean dissonant chords stacked on top of each other and alternate tensions and changing modalities? Anywhoo, when I've seen Fiona live, i've been greatly underwhelmed by her abilities at the keyboard...isn't she self-taught, not that that makes much of a difference? Aside from her posture and her hand positions (my sister's a pianist of almost 20 years, so I've seen her go through all that stuff), she just seemed to be playing in the same register and not doing much to distinguish herself. This could be a result of the confines of popular music structures, but I dunno...if you're a good pianist, you should be able to find a way to break out of that mold. I kind of had a similar rant to John's here, but not as ranty or as incredulous. I was gonna send it last night, but i thought it was kinda pointless...arguing over art and perceptions and objectives and subjectives. But I might as well spew. I'm just trying to figure out if we're talking about good pianists/keyboardists being people who have great technical skills (usually the result of some formal training), have the ability to use their skills to bend the form of music to their own way of thinking, and can convey their energy and emotions through their performance. Are we looking for people who can do all this (and possibly more, such as invent new techniques and approach the sound from a different angle), or can we name people who possess only some of these attributes? Is someone who can really wrench a good heartug out of us without possessing the necessary skills to be able to improvise complex chordchanges and melodies, or even just improvise period outside of what they have practiced, someone who is worthy of being called a great pianist? I think it's exceptionally tough to point out great pianists and keyboardists in the pop music genre (pop being popular, of course) because the forms of songs don't allow their abilities to shine through. Usually a piano is an accompaniment; it plays the chordchanges, acts as a rhythm section, provides harmonies. Only on solos and bridges is it allowed to show some hint of virtuosity (the same can be said of all instruments in a band supporting vocals). But even the most tasty of licks might not be an indication of the chops of the player, since they might be canned repetitions; you know, the solo that you hear them play during a song is performed the same way EVERY time they do the song because they practiced it over and over until they memorized it physically. They couldn't come up with a new solo on the spot because they don't have the musicianship skills connected to the motor skills. i could argue with myself on and on about this kind of stuff, about technical skills being important and not important, about emotional attachement to the music being important or not important, blah blah blah. you get the picture. Who do I think is a great pianist? Ben Folds has got terrible technical skills, bad hand posture, but man, he can destroy a piano (in a good way) and do it in so many ways. He plays with great energy and makes it fun, sloppiness be damned. Harry Connick, Jr. is amazing at his versatility, babying the keyboard one minute, pounding away at it the next...he has an innate sense of musicianship. Diana Krall...I'd like to see her really let loose...when I've seen and heard her, she's been too polite on the piano, I think...but she's got the ears and the fingers to make the piano play. Can I stick Vince Clarke in here? Erasure? Or does he fit under a programmer/arranger/producer? > Emm Gryner I thought was an amateurish and bad piano player. not the descriptors I would use. Bad piano player is me. I'm a cellist. i don't need no stinkin' piano. actually, i probably should learn some skills on it :) Emm knows how to write tremendously catchy and hooky music, whether it be on the guitar or the piano. That's a skill and a talent. She doesn't have good technical skills and she doesn't provide much variety within songs and styles, but to be able to use the piano for her music is something. >Just >because there's piano on their albums doesn't mean they're good >pianists, y'all. This is funny, we're pigeonholing ourSEVLES here... >any girl we can think of who plays piano, we include on the list... I >know we wouldn't have done that with any male who plays piano... >something tells me none of y'all thought about Axl Rose when going >through your list of "good pianists". He's not good, but there's >piano on his album. I agree. I disagree. All of the women listed so far have piano as their primary instrument, behind their voices (well, pretty much...some exceptions could be made where the piano is the stronger point, but the voice gets them through the doors of popular music)...billy joel, elton john, bruce hornsby, joe jackson...doesn't it seem like piano + voice is more of a girl thing in pop music? >All we're doing here is thinking of girls who >have any half-asses piano-tinkling on their album and immediately >they're new prodigy geniuses...Emily Bezar, >conversely, IS a good pianist. She has had conservatory training. which of course could mean bupkis in this discussion of she only had the technical skills, and not the ability to create music that utilized those skills (but of course she does use those skills amazingly). > And, of course, there's Diamanda Galás. I'm sure the folks on the >Diamanda mailinglist would find all of this pianist talk really really >funny, seein' as how they're all familiar with Diamanda's keyboard >work. *rest of Diamanda stuff snipped* right on about Diamanda. she scares the hell out of me, but her talent is not able to be disputed. One of my profs at Amherst told us that she studied piano at college...her dad wouldn't let her study voice, and besides, she was a piano prodigy...but she'd still go off and get a practice room and just stand there by herself and torture her voice by screaming and singing at the top of her lungs, using that voice of hers that might very well be the sound of angels shrieking. Query - you can't very well speak in tongues in Italian, can you? Isn't the essence of speaking in tongues the fact that you aren't speaking in any one language? > I do adore Veda Hille, her piano work is incredible... and >distinctive, as well... I can't compare her to any other female >pianists... she doesn't sound like Tori *or* Sarah Slean *or* Fiona >*or* Emily Bezar. She sounds like Veda Hille, which is the mark of a >good artist, the ability to have a distintive style. ah ha. there is your definition. i still don't know what mine is. :) >The other piano >Sarah, Sarah McLachlan... nope, sorry, she has all the distinctive >piano style of astroturf. It's pretty, yes, the all-piano version of >"Possession" is indeed very pretty, but it's nothing that any person >with any knowledge of music theory couldn't sit down and bang out in >the course of twenty minutes. It's not original, not even the little >part before the third verse. It's just pretty... let's remember that >this is about VIRTUOSITY, not presence. ahhh...more definition...i think sarah has skills (classically trained), and she can create and play music with great emotion on the piano, but i think that she's fairly medium in her ability. there's a category you didn't seem to invite...the large step between bad and virtuosic, where the majority would seem to fall. people such as beth sorrentino and paula cole and chantal kreviazuk. oh, and i've had numerous years of theory training, and i couldn't come up with the piano version of Possession if you gave me the full band version. not in twenty minutes, not in 2 days not even in two weeks. Why? well, partly because I don't have piano skills and you would need to know your way around a piano in order to transcribe a song for it, and partly because theory often means doodlysquat when applied to real world situations. you apply theory in real life, and it sounds mechanical. if you have a vague idea of theory and how it applies to your instrument, it sound better. you can have no idea of any theory, but know what works on your instrument and it can sound like heaven. >You can have all the presence >in the world and play one chord on a lap steel and make the universe >cry, but that doesn't mean you're any kind of lap steel virtuoso I dunno...i think being able to make a tune out of one chord, being able to make an audience cry out of one chord, takes an impressive amount of skill and viruosity...presence factors into it...how many times do you hear some blues guitarist jamming away and he gets stuck on one note and just repeats it over and over and it doesn't suck? it just becomes intense and he might vary the rhythm of that note and move it around in time, but it's still one note and he's got you hooked with it because he's feeling all these emotions through it. So that's me. And my thoughts. oh, i forgot to mention Susan Werner. I think she's faboo. And a good pianist too. I've had the good fortune of being able to hear her noodle around on the piano before her shows and she just loves to rip into jazz standard-style tunes and she kicks ass at that...of the songs she writes on the piano, she can cover many different styles and deliver wonderful little solos in each one. end transmission. Paul "not glenn gould" Kim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 02:17:32 -0500 From: Paul Kim Subject: Re: Alice in Ectoland >On the Wild Colonial's debut album, "Fruit of Life", they do a song called >Alice. In my memory, there are Alice in Wonderland references in it, but I >can't really remember the song well and I don't have the disc with me. It >was released in 1994 on Geffen. Alice in wonderland take off your shoes reach for the stars you have nothing to lose yep, i'd say those lyrics have something to do with mr. carroll's story :) bit of ectosynchronicity...i was watching a videotape of mine that has the first episode of VR.5 on it (well, it also has Appleseed the anime on it, which is what i was watching), and in that episode they use a Wild Colonials song from that album...it caught me by surprise...there seemed to be other ectophilic music in the episode, but i couldn't figure out who it was. Paul "back! back i say, you vile lurker!" Kim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 23:24:41 -0800 From: Bill Mazur Subject: Re: keyboard players and melty male voices > and for male vocalists, i forgot some of my favorites, dammit: > > luca (sings with leila) > greg dulli (he makes me melt) > and GAVIN FRIDAY > > how could i possibly forget dear ole' gavin? his voice makes me go all > gooey... > > jessa Jessa, I was completely unfamiliar with Gavin Friday. I must admit that your statement above made me very curious to hear his voice and music. I did a search and found his site. Very interesting! Thank you for pointing me in that direction. His history is also fascinating. I used to play in a band with a friend that knew Bono and The Edge quite well in their early days when they first toured through America. He used to work at SIR in San Francisco and provided help for them on their tours all the way up through the Rattle and Hum time period. He used to talk about them and share anecdotes quite a bit with us (his band mates). Yet, I never knew or heard any of this about Lypton Village and the Virgin Prunes. Interesting... Every time I think that I'm getting close to completing my CD collection, I am introduced to so much new music it is joyous, but at times overwhelming. This newsgroup is *very* dangerous! ;-) Thanks, Bill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 23:24:58 -0800 From: Bill Mazur Subject: Re: pianists FAMarcus@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 2/23/99 1:09:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, bill@wagill.com > writes: > > << as well as Keith Emerson, posses much > technical ability and artistic ability, and they too have put out > emotionally evocative works. >> > > I saw Keith play on 3 different ocassions in the 70's and nothing has > surpassed that for me from a pianist point of view. I have a background > playing the piano so it's an instrument I take notice of. I've seen Tori > three times and even though I appreciate and love her much more as an artist, > his was the performance that i was most impressed with as a keyboard player. > And while I'm on the subject of EMERSON, LAKE AND, PALMER............. male > lead singers don't really motivate me but Greg Lakes vocals on songs such as > Lucky Man and Take a Pebble for ELP and his vocals on THE COURT OF THE CRIMSON > KING for King Crimson will always stay with me as my favorites by a male. > This comes from someone who does not like to live in the past. > fred Well stated Fred on all points! Keith and Tori are probably the two most impressive piano players I have had the privilege of seeing perform. They are both are passionate, dynamic and technically gifted. I also heartily agree with your opinions of Greg Lake on the early Crimson and ELP material. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 23:29:27 -0800 From: Bill Mazur Subject: Re: Quick: Mock Turtles & Alice in Ectoland neal copperman wrote: > > At 7:18 PM -0600 2/23/99, Mark Lowry wrote: > > >Also, can anybody think of references to "Alice in Wonderland" in pop > >music (besides Jefferson Airplane's "White Rabbit" and the video for Tom > >Petty's "Don't Come Around Here No More"?) > > On the Wild Colonial's debut album, "Fruit of Life", they do a song called > Alice. In my memory, there are Alice in Wonderland references in it, but I > can't really remember the song well and I don't have the disc with me. It > was released in 1994 on Geffen. > > neal > > np: That's Not Funny - Joan Baez at UNM Popejoy Hall > nr: Death Comes For The Archbishop - Willa Cather How about Bill Bruford's "Fainting in Coils"? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 01:49:56 -0600 (CST) From: kerrywhite@webtv.net (kerry white) Subject: Re: Quick: Mock Turtles & Alice in Ectoland    Bill said: >How about Bill Bruford's "Fainting in Coils"?< Two lines of quotes from the book, the rest is insrumental, wonderful but not pop or likely to be what he wants. 8-) bye, KrW "Yes, it left a great gaping hole in the water!" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 03:00:04 -0500 (EST) From: Mike Matthews Subject: Today's your birthday, friend... i*i*i*i*i*i i*i*i*i*i*i *************** *****HAPPY********* **************BIRTHDAY********* *************************************************** *************************************************************************** ********************** Michael Curry (mcurry@io.com) ********************** *************************************************************************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Michael Curry Fri February 24 1967 Pisces Paula Shanks Mon February 25 1952 Pisces Brni Mojzes Fri February 26 1965 the vanishing boy Pamela Pociluk Fri February 28 1964 Pisces Tim Steele Fri March 08 1963 Pisces Matt Bittner Thu March 12 1964 Pisces kIrI Hargie Fri March 13 1970 Pisces Bob Dreano Thu March 13 1958 Pisces Randall K. Smith Sat March 15 1969 Pisces Jessica Skolnik March 16 Pisces Alan Sodoma Thu March 18 1965 LuckyLurker Richard Konrad Sat March 18 1944 Pisces Barry Wong Thu March 19 1970 Merlin Graham Dombkins Fri March 19 1965 Pisces Ian Young Wed March 19 1969 Squiggol Jeff Wasilko Wed March 19 1969 Pisces Geoff Carre Sat March 20 1954 Pisces John Stewart Sat March 21 1970 Aries Bob Brown Thu March 22 1951 Ham - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 19:18:00 +1100 From: "Tim Finney" Subject: Re: Keyboardists - ---------- >From: Greg.Jumper@Eng.Sun.COM >To: ecto@smoe.org >Subject: Keyboardists >Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 3:55 AM > >Now that we've done guitarists thoroughly, how about some discussion >of piano/keyboard players? (This subject came up tangentially in the >recent Marillion discussion.) To follow on, Mark Kelly from Marillion will be my first nomination: Mark's one of the few "progressive" keyboardists who can both handle the widdly technical stuff and come up with something really simple but effective. The two best examples of his craft I can think of are "Out Of This World" and "This Strange Engine". The first juxtaposes solemn keyboard washes with simple chord changes and a lovely rolling piano line which reminds me of some of Vangelis' work. The second has just about everything a prog keyboardist can do on it: the slow washes, the incidental noises and faux-instruments, an amazing and slightly amusing set of moog solos (this being a 97 release), and a few minutes in this beautiful trick of playing only three notes over and over again. Nothing is especially complicated (except the moog solos I suppose), but everything is so effective, both in isolation and accumulatively. Also, Mark has a really good knowledge of how to use his parts to support and highlight Steve Hogarth's singing, instead of just being a selfish show-off I also really like Imogen Heap's piano and keyboard work. Not really on her album, where its nice but buried under the production, but on her instrumental b-side work where she (all by herself), combines piano pieces with layers of keyboards, beats and sound effects, yet still allows the piano to breathe. On both the songs Wireless and Miel it's a gorgeous and haunting mix. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 01:50:55 -0800 From: "Neil K. Guy" Subject: New XTC OK - not really Ecto per se and totally unrelated to keyboard playing flames, but hey - a new XTC studio album is cause for celebration, as far as I'm concerned. So anyone else heard Apple Venus yet? It's growing on me. Doesn't break new ground particularly, but some great well-crafted tunes as always. - Neil K. ob ecto: personally I think the reason why people seemed to have difficulty coming up with big name women guitarists and so on is because for some reason people associate a lot of show-off guitarists with the 70s, an era of major male guitar-wanking but a low female profile in music compared to the 90s. And besides, many of the more interesting women performers seem to express themselves through their voice rather than showing off their instrument-playing skills for the sake of doing so. Or maybe I'm just over-generalizing. :) - -- t e l a computer consulting + design * Vancouver, BC, Canada phone: (604) 254-0520 * email: tela@tela.bc.ca web: http://www.tela.bc.ca/tela/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 02:01:08 -0800 From: G Perez Subject: Male Vocalist Recommendations/Keyboardists/Guitarists jjhanson@att.net typed: >Gregory Page - >Anyone know anything? Gregory is my long-time favorite and I'm glad to see his name mentioned here. His second album was recorded in the summer of '97 with John Doe of X producing but he's been waiting to release it until he's on a label that's willing to really back him. He's been trying to break out of the acoustic singer/songwriter mold with newly written roots-rock material and a full band -- consisting of bassist David J. Carpenter and drummer Evan Stone (who are also the rhythm section of the Orange County jazz/fusion group Speak) and the great Frank Lee Drennen (of Loam). The band will be performing at this year's SXSW. Greg has given me a few demos of some of his new material. Two songs in particular, "Diamonds and Gold" and "Flying Underwater," are his strongest productions. The former can be found on last year's SLAMM compilation. The Steve Poltz co-written tune, "The Great Mystery," is also on the pending album and Poltz does some backing vocals on it (to return the favor of Greg backing the same song on his album.) Currently, Greg is still recording demos when he can get studio time. I heard he recently got some time in Daniel Lanois' digs. He also produced Carlos Olmeda's new record and a 3-song demo for the Los Angeles group Starbelly. For more info check out his new website: www.gregorypage.com Other Male Recommendations: Jon Brion - Jon is the most amazing male artist I've ever seen. Watching him and Fiona Apple do her new song "Paper Bag" a few weeks ago was just one of his many highlights of the young year. His final performance of 1998 included one of the best satire songs I've ever heard: impromptu jazz/ spoken word set to the poems of Jewel. If that wasn't funny enough his finale was an ode to 90's top 40 (matchbox20, Jewel, Marcy Playground) as sung by Tom Waits. He's been inviting tons of "celebrity" guests recently as kind of a rehearsal to his upcoming VH1 show. Buzz is that Elliott Smith may pop up sometime soon... Other Favorites (although not necessarily Ecto): Richard Thompson Teddy Thompson Andy Prieboy Mark Stewart (The Negro Problem) Ted Hawkins Dale Grundle (Catchers) Jason Falkner Elliott Smith Kristian Hoffman Jeff Buckley Brian Wilson Martin Luther Lennon Jake Smith (The Mysteries of Life) PJ Olsson Jim White Emitt Rhodes Carlos Olmeda Cinjun Tate (Remy Zero) Lloyd Cole Ian Brown Joakim Berg (Kent) Syd Barrett Brian Molko (Placebo) Brad Mehldau Beck Grant Lee Phillips John Oszjaca One of the best keyboardist I've ever seen is Gere Fenellie (formerly of Redd Kross). I'm sure anyone who has ever seen her can back me up. Also Maria McKee has excellent technique and feel. And Nels Cline and Susan James are two of my favorite local guitarists. __ gp np: dudley - _doin' jack_ (household ink) ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:27:38 +1100 From: Andrew Fries Subject: Re: Putting Music On The Web In a message "Putting Music On The Web" on 21/Feb/1999 22:54:42 Chris Snyder says: > Does anyone know of a good shareware program for recording music onto a > macintosh into wav or aiff format, or others? I also use a Mac and if you're interested I can tell you how I make samples of music already on a CD. But I suspect that is not what you want to know and I'm not really sure about recording from any other formats... > Also what would you suggest as a format for song samples on a musicians site? Well Steve's option of 3 different formats is perfect if you have sufficient disk space on your server... in my case it was a real concern so I had to decide on just one format and in the end I settled on mp3. The reasons: - - cross platform compatibility - I believe there are free mp3 players available for most operating systems that matter - Mac, Windows, Linux and BeOS are the ones I know for sure. - - while WAVs can also be played on most systems, they are absolutely huge! mp3 strikes a more sensible balance between sound quality and file size. - - RealAudio seems to me very proprietary - I don't like to be locked into a one-source system. mp3 software is available from a number different sources and that makes me sleep a bit easier. I might add that I wasn't really concerned about streaming. Personally I hate it, mostly because on my connection streaming usually appears more like dripping! But if that's what you want, realAudio is better suited - files can be made really quite small (at the expense of sound quality). Besides while RealAudio will work on a Mac, streaming mp3 will not - as yet. That's why I still haven't heard these fabled Vickie's broadcasts... - ------------------------------------------------------ The world is divided into good people and bad people. The good ones sleep better, while the bad ones enjoy the waking hours much more. - ------ http://www.zip.com.au/~afries/hall.html ------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:22:57 +1100 From: Andrew Fries Subject: Re: pianists, keyboardists, etc *huff* John Drummond says: > You can have all the presence > in the world and play one chord on a lap steel and make the universe > cry, but that doesn't mean you're any kind of lap steel virtuoso It's all very interesting, but I've no musical training whatsoever - I wouldn't know your 7ths from the 13ths if they both sat on my face... so I have to use some other criteria for greatness. And here it is: If the music brings some kind of emotional response from me then I consider it to be good. If it really moves me I consider it great. But the number of notes artist used to get that response from me just doesn't enter the equation. Simple? Sure it is... I disagree with you John. If you could make the universe cry it would indeed make you a virtuoso, and if you could do it with just one note you'd be the greatest of them all. - ------------------------------------------------------ The world is divided into good people and bad people. The good ones sleep better, while the bad ones enjoy the waking hours much more. - ------ http://www.zip.com.au/~afries/hall.html ------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 07:29:17 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Colford Subject: Re: pianists, keyboardists, etc *huff* Okay, just want to chime in with my idol, Christine McVie of Fleetwood Mac. Now before you all jump all over me, I know that technically she's not a "GREAT" keyboard player. Still, I wanted to mention her because she's been around a long time, and she was probably my inspiration to take up playing keyboards in a band. She's also Elton John's inspiration, by the way! ;-) Michael n.p. Imogen Heap - I Megaphone - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Colford | Reading Public Library Head of Technical Services | Reading, Massachusetts colford@noblenet.org | *North of Boston Library Exchange* - -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:00:24 -0500 From: Patrick Moseley Subject: New Music Recommendation - Fleming & John Hello all... Any other Fleming & John fans in Ectoland? Their sophomore CD, "The Way We Are" came out yesterday, and it's utterly fantastic. They're a husband/wife duo. John does the recording/producing and plays just about any instrument he can get his hands on (the liner notes list bass, guitar, percussion, clavinet, theremin, timpani, chimes, cello, flugelhorn, balalaika, vibes, piano, oud, saz, buhl buhl, harmonium, porta chord, tabla, trombone, lap steel, xylophone, dilruba, spacephone, bodrhan, accordian, dulcimer, udu, khinjira, and bongo... this dude is talented). Fleming does the singing... and my, what a voice. Her quieter side is kinda little-girlish along the lines of Bjork, but her higher range is loud and powerful. This woman can wail as well as sing some bits of opera soprano, and she displays the most amazing breath control throughout. Their music is hard to describe. Fleming desribes it as "weird pop," and that's about as close as you can get. It rocks, it discos, and it whispers... And there's not a single lyrical cliche in sight, and many of the lyrics are either downright profound or hilarious (intentionally). Especially striking is "Don't Let it Fade Away," which runs the gamut from a guitar-and-voice folk/country ballad to a full-orchestra swell. There's not a bad cut to be found, and the melodies all sound fresh and memorable. And no, I'm not being paid by their record company! ;-) I'm simply overwhelmed by this disc. Their debut, "Delusions of Grandeur," which released in 1995/1996, was excellent, but this one is just jaw dropping. So, consider that my friendly recommendation to all Ectophiles. Be on the lookout. It was rather disheartening to me yesterday when I walked in the music store past *hundreds* of new TLC and Blondie CDs in front displays to go in the back alternative music section to find their lone new copy of F&J's album. *Sigh* Patrick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 08:37:22 -0600 From: Suzanne Cerquone Subject: Male Vocalists/Marillion/XTC/Beth Orton A part of me wants to list Peter Gabriel as my fave male vocalist, too....but then when I think about it more, it's really not his vocals that do me in. He's more my "favorite consumate male artist," invoking great lyrics, varied instrumentation, stage presence and incredible human qualities that foray into humanitarian and socio-political issues. That's what is great about him, not really his voice. I would say second place goes to Robbie Robertson. For great voices, I'd vote for Steve Hogarth (Marillion) first and foremost, then Jeff Buckley, Duncan Sheik, Matthew Sweet, Midge Ure and John Wesley. A soft spot is still held for Jon Anderson of Yes, although I rarely listen to his music anymore. Although he's working on a rock opera with Sherman Helmsley (The Jeffersons' TV show!) right now, so that might be worth it for the laughs alone! I *really* enjoyed Bill and Tim's back and forth on things prog, especially the Marillion talk. (I'm sure some of you were bored with it, but we promise not to take over the list or anything!) I wanted to put in my two cents on "Radiation" vs. "This Strange Engine." First, the best thing about Marillion is that no two albums can really compare. I'm sure Bill and Tim know this, being big fans. That's what makes Marillion so special, in my opinion. Therefore, I can't really compare the two CDs. I did like TSE a bit more, though. Every few albums they try to aim for a more mainstream sound (see Holidays in Eden) and I think it fared well. Yeah, some songs like "Accidental Man" and "Hope for the Future" were a bit half-assed, but then you have the utter brilliance of "Man of 1000 Faces" (which turned out to be one of their most powerful songs live, EVER--that ending chorus knocked me out), "Estonia," and the title track. Again, TSE is uneven, but I think "Radiation" is even more so. For one, "Answering Machine" was tampered with after a suggestion from a studio assistant. It started out as this rollicking, Celtic-feel acoustic vibe that was just *amazing* (saw them perform it this way last year in Oswestry), and when they recorded it they made it hard, loud and dense. Blech. "Now She'll Never Know" is a just a tad too understated, and "Cathedral Wall" is just way over to top, IMHO. Still, I enjoyed "These Chains," "Three Minute Boy," "Under the Sun," and "A Few Words for the Dead." These songs translated very well live as well. Someone a few digests ago mentioned XTC, and that they weren't too "ecto-ish" but that they had a new album. That album, "Apple Venus V.1" came out yesterday on TVT Records. I think XTC would fit nicely into these discussions, because they have great melodies, harmonies and lyrics. Some people don't "get" Andy Partridge's voice, and while it's not top notch, it has its charms. This is a much-anticipated album for XTC fans as XTC have not recorded for six years! And it's worth the wait--the album screams genius and then some. If you like incredibly smart pop music, give it a whirl. Finally, I don't know what's wrong with me, but a year and a half later I've discovered Beth Orton's "Trailer Park." It's freakin' gorgeous. I can't get it out of my player. Can someone fill me in on when her new album is due? I know it was mentioned numerous times here, but I was paging down before--DUH! - --Suzanne <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> The Web North America web site: http://window.to/webna e-mail inquiries: WebNA@eudoramail.com <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 09:25:14 -0500 From: "Heather Russell" Subject: Re: Male Vocalists >Butare there venues out there that support male singer->songwriters in the >same way? [soapbox] Other than the few scattered women-only venues, *every* single venue supports the male singer-songwriter and the male-fronted band. There isn't much need for special "men in music" sites because men are already well represented in mainstream music sites. Women in music have mostly been considered out of the mainstream, fads at best. Of course, that perception is starting to fade, but even a few months ago on alt.music.alternative they were discussing that women in music was just a fad, and were speculating what the next fad was going to replace it - ska, retro, etc. [/soapbox] :-) heather ************************************************** * Heather Russell * My music site: http://www.freecloud.com/heather * Indiegrrl: http://www.indiegrrl.com * Email: hrussellatbellsouthdotnet - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Access your e-mail anywhere, at any time. Get your FREE BellSouth Web Mail account today! http://webmail.bellsouth.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 06:54:15 -0800 (PST) From: Rubber DeNiro Subject: Re: New Music Recommendation - Fleming & John - ---Patrick Moseley wrote: > > Hello all... > > Any other Fleming & John fans in Ectoland? ... > Their music is hard to describe. Oh, I don't know. This was the review I posted here of their first album, _Delusions_of_Grandeur_: " If this had come out at the height of Pat Benatar's and Quarterflash's popularity, its status as a hit would have been virtually assured. What's with all this literal seventiesism? These people (I won't call them artists) who aren't afraid of influences but are afraid to synthesize them into their own art. Sampling has gone too far. It's okay to sample an artist's product, but not, I think, to sample their art. I've wasted enough time on this album. " I went back and listened to it again, and I can't urge you strongly enough to back slowly away from this album. Patrick's description of the second album intrigues me, and if I get a chance to hear it--listening station, gun to my head--I'll do so, but fewer "efforts" in recent years have given me a stronger feeling of revulsion than _Delusions_of_Grandeur_. (Available, by the way, to anyone with the price of postage and the proper protective clothing.) - --charley _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 10:26:22 -0500 From: Patrick Moseley Subject: Re: New Music Recommendation - Fleming & John >--charley wrote: > I've wasted enough time on this album. >I went back and listened to it again, and I can't urge you strongly >enough to back slowly away from this album. EEE-ouch! :-) You might find this hard to believe considering your reaction to their music, but yours is the very first negative response I've heard from anyone concerning F&J's music. They're definitely a critic's darling if not (yet) overly popular. I still consider their debut among my favorites from the year of its release. > If this had come out at the height of Pat Benatar's and >Quarterflash's popularity, its status as a hit would have been >virtually assured. What's with all this literal seventiesism? These >people (I won't call them artists) who aren't afraid of influences but >are afraid to synthesize them into their own art. Sampling has gone >too far. It's okay to sample an artist's product, but not, I think, to >sample their art. This I can kinda see in a roundabout way. F&J definitely infuse a bunch of varied influences into their music, but to my ear at least their product puts a different and original spin on things. The seventies influence is definitely there, but as an avid loather of disco and a lot of music spawned from that decade, the comparisons must not be overt. And if nothing else, Fleming's voice and their original lyrics are above and beyond the typical Pat Benatar-style you've compared them to. And I've never minded even the most blatant stylistic ripoffs as long as the songs themselves are original and interesting. And to me, F&J aren't even blatant. Fair warning, though, Charley. If "Delusions" made you ill, you best not eat before sampling "They Way We Are"! I think it's a better disc all-around, but I doubt the departure is drastic enough to change your opinion of them. Patrick n.p. F&J's _The Way We Are_. And I won't apologize! :) ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V5 #68 *************************