From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V4 #440 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Thursday, December 17 1998 Volume 04 : Number 440 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Moxy Fruvous and Rufus Wainwright-- [Old Spice ] Re: Defending Fiona [Faerymouse@aol.com] More on Dead Can Dance Breakup ["C. K. Coney" ] various replies [meredith ] Happy Talk on AOL [Richard ] Re: Defending Fiona [Richard ] Re: Defending Fiona [Greg Dunn ] Emm Gryner digs Beck [Mark Lowry ] Re: Defending Fiona ["Xenu's Sister" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 18:59:34 +0000 (GMT) From: Old Spice Subject: Moxy Fruvous and Rufus Wainwright-- - --though I shudder to mention them both in the same subject line. - ---meredith wrote: > > Hi! > > Charley helpfully opined re Moxy Fruvous: > > >I thought a more appropriate name for the group was "They > >Might Be They Might Be Giants, Only a Lot More Annoying." They're very > >talented musically and vocally, but I think their taste is, at its > >best, adolescent and provincial, and at its worst, cringeingly > >sophomoric. They're not anywhere near as funny as they think they are, > >and their musically stiff (though technically impressive) delivery > >does not go very far to make up for the artistic aridity of their > >material. > > While I'm certainly not Moxy's biggest fan, and the only album of theirs I > have ever been motivated to listen to more than once is their live CD of > earlier this year, I have to step in here and agree with Mike Curry. They > are a ridiculous amount of fun live. No, they're not geniuses or brilliant > artists, but they're hilarious, and they do harmonize really well. An obvious case of "humor" being in the mind of the beholder. I happen to think MF is about as funny as a drunk frat boy with self-esteem issues. And though they harmonize well, the idiocy of their humor shines through their musical strengths for me. Acappella (silly, folky acappella, that is, as opposed to say Gregorian chant) is one of those things like the banjo or crochet: it’s somehow cliché in its very essence, and has to try a lot harder to overcome the stigma that’s automatically attached to it. Uncle Banzai succeeds (succeeded) in transcending the tight-harmony, funny-folk genre; MF _waaay_ does not: they’re entirely enmired in it. As are the Nields. > Mark, I should also point out that Charley hates The Nields too, Saying I hate the Nields is like saying I hate it when somebody dumps gasoline on me and then offers me a light. I’d rather be turned inside out in an isopropyl alcohol storm than listen to the Nields. Or MF. But I love Uncle Banzai. Go figure. > so that > should give you a point of reference and hopefully convince you to take his > comments with about a pound and a half of salt. I might just as easily warn Mark that, since Meth is a Nields fan, he (Mark) might want to invest--heavily--in a salt mine before he considers her (Meth's) recommendation. > If you like to have a lot > of bouncy, giggly fun at a concert, - --for a moment there I thought we were going to Spice World > definitely go check Moxy out. If you > don't, then that's fine too - stay home and listen to Rufus Wainwright or > something. :) Or go out and see Rufus Wainwright: he’s currently on tour. And having just been named Rolling Stone’s best new artist, his shows are selling out the small venues he was booked into before the tour. And his opener, P.J. Olson, is a whole lot of fun. Yes, I said fun: one of the most fun I’ve had this year when not accosting strangers on the street and warning them to beware the evil called the Nields. Or go out and see Scarnella, the current incarnation of Geraldine Fibbers, also on tour. Lots of stuff to go out and have "bouncy, giggly" fun with. Or stay in and listen to MF, or the Nields, or "Barney’s Favorite Singalong Songs." - ---Mike Mendelson wrote, quoting Mark Lowry: > > >So, what are they like? > > > > To be very fair, I am a huge fruvous fan. But their stuff does cover a > range of styles. If you are interested in getting to know the band (well > worth your while if you ask me), and if you are not befuddled by a wry > canadian spirit and sense of humor (as clearly some here are), To be very fair, that’s an extremely unfair assumption. Those who know me will tell you that I am not one to be befuddled by _any_ sense of humor; given the minimal criterion of actually _having_ some humor. I’m a huge fan of funny music: Mick Harvey and Anita Lane’s covers of Gainsbourg’s stuff are wickedly, wickedly funny; Perez Prado is a scream and a half; I have a TMBG sticker on my car; my enthusiasm for Marilyn Manson is because he cracks me up, not because I take him seriously; I know most of Tom Lehrer by heart. And why do you think I love the Beastie Boys so much? Because they’re _serious_? But an attempt at humor is not enough: it has to work. And MF’s humor works for some people, but not for me. If you like Spike Jones and the Revenge of the Nerds movies, you’ll love MF. > As far as seeing them live, a large concert hall (a la the Holly Cole > opener denegrated by charlie) is *NOT* the way to see them. They opened for Holly at the Royal George theater in Chicago; by no means a large concert hall. And I was not far from the front of the audience. > Go see them at a club, And I saw them at a tiny club in Champaign, Illinois, with my old boyfriend, who was a rabid fan. We didn’t last long. > where you can stand right up close to the stage and heckle! They > are all actors by upbringing and education, Read: they are all obsessive attention-starved lampshade wearers. > and they have a great > stage-presence and repartee with the audience. Yes, that they do. I’m sure I was one of the only people there that night who’d paid money to see MF and hated every second of it: a performer’s loyal fans make the best audience. So anyway. To reiterate, MF definitely has a loyal following of serious fans, but I do not share their enthusiasm. And it’s not because of any lack of a sense of humor or fear of fun, but because of my own seriously considered judgment. I am, of course, as entitled to my opinion of MF as anyone else is of Rufus Wainwright, though I’m convinced that the Moxy Fruvous-shaped hole in my life is much smaller and less empty than the Rufus Wainwright-shaped hole in Meth’s. - --charley _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 14:36:05 EST From: Faerymouse@aol.com Subject: Re: Defending Fiona In a message dated 12/16/98 7:51:18 AM Pacific Standard Time, vickie@wwa.com writes: > At 11:59 AM 12/15/98 -0800, Eponine wrote: > > >Anyway - I got off on a tangent there, I think - someone mentioned Fiona > >Apple, and I think hers is an interesting case-in-point. No, she can't > >sing. But I happen to love her CD 'Tidal'. > > I love it too, but I'm completely flummoxed as to why anyone > would say she can't sing. I think her voice is perfect for the > songs she sing, and the songs she writes and sings are *great*. > Anyone who hasn't heard the entire album has no room to > comment on her talent, because they're probably commenting > more on a video they saw. Anyone who *has* heard the album > and still doesn't think she's talented...well, sorry, they're wrong > and their opinion has probably been colored by her media > persona (or more accurately, the mistakes she's made in front > of the media that were blown way out of proportion.) She's > another one who's scarily talented at a young age. > Personally, I *hate* her voice. With a passion. She sings flat and I think it sounds awful. I have heard clips of her live, and she sounds like a goat. IMHO. Personally, I think there are far more talented people who could and should be getting all the recognition she does...I'm not that impressed by her musicianship much at all. However, I do like the way she writes sometimes. I also think she is being totally exploited by her record company (obviously not her fault) but I also *really* do not like the attitude I have seen from her in interviews, which tends to be along the lines of "victim" (although I'll give her a little leeway because obviously reporters can twist things around). And that's my opinion, and I don't think it's *wrong* for me to hold that... - - Siobhan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 16:56:42 -0800 From: "C. K. Coney" Subject: More on Dead Can Dance Breakup Buried in one of my posts of today was a mention again of the DCD breakup. I should have given out a url for the official news. So, here it is... www.rocktropolis.com, click on "more allstar news" and scroll down. Hey, does anyone like Brendan Perry? I sure do! Not as much as Lisa G...but I'll be thrilled to hear and buy his solo work. Yes, indeedy. Carol (over and out) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 23:15:23 -0500 From: meredith Subject: various replies Hi! Ah, yes. Good to know Charley can still be counted on to keep ecto alive with tolerance, objectivity and good cheer, especially at this time of year. It warms the heart, it really does. :) Anyway. Jeffy noted: >I'm usually one of the ones with that reminder; I still get thrown >hearing the bonus tracks (which I guess just goes to show often >I listened to the 1st4 on tape before I got the CDs). Isn't it weird how those things can happen? I don't get thrown by the bonus tracks on Happy's CDs so much any more. However, it still amazes me that every single time I'm listening to _Hounds of Love_ and "Running Up That Hill" finishes, I do a double-take when "Army Dreamers" doesn't immediately start after it. (My first KaTe album was _The Whole Story_, you see... and yes, I did get Jeffy's "Oh Albany, My Leotard" reference instantly. :) Vickie fonted: >("Proof" - what was she *thinking*?) Probably something along the lines of, "I'm going to write a song that kicks ass." :) (Sorry, but I love it.) Tim responded: >Does perfect mean normal? Certainly not! By my definition, perfect >guitar-pop means timeless and totally unforgetable guitar-based songs within >the pop genre. Songs you can hear and instantly recognise without waiting >for the chorus. That's certainly a good explanation. But it doesn't apply to "Birthday". I don't know what "Birthday" is ... iceberg pop? The instrumentation that sets it apart and makes it instantly recognizable is the constipated trumpet wailing, not anything resembling a poppy guitar. It is a song that instantly evokes images of Iceland, and I'm totally in agreement with you in that it's one of the best songs ever ... but "guitar pop" it most certainly is not. (And for the record, I'm one of those who absolutely hated Einar ... my Sugarcubes albums got a lot fewer listens than they otherwise would have because of him. I was *so* glad when Bjork's _Debut_ came out -- finally, an Einar-free Bjork listening experience! And it was good.) Carol recalled: >Another thing having to do with Jane...didn't she get a major feature article in >either Mondo 2000 or Wired? Mondo 2000. (I haven't read it in a while -- is it still one of those publications that prides itself on making itself completely unreadable? I could never understand why magazines like that (and Ray Gun, and others I'm forgetting the names of) were intentionally laid out so it was totally impossible to follow the text or even see it half the time. What's the point? But I digress.) >How do people in the land >of geekdom find new music to listen to? We hang out on lists like ecto and scour the used bins a lot. :) +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | U.S.A. OUT OF THE MIDDLE EAST NOW!!! | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 00:23:08 -0500 From: Richard Subject: Happy Talk on AOL In case anyone here has access to AOL- The Kate Bush board there has had a lively Happy Rhodes thread going for the last few weeks, along with some talk about Emily Bezar.... I guess it's finally sinking in that KaTe is AWOL bigtime.. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 00:43:39 -0500 From: Richard Subject: Re: Defending Fiona Vickie sayeth: I love it too, but I'm completely flummoxed as to why anyone would say she can't sing. I think her voice is perfect for the songs she sing, and the songs she writes and sings are *great*. Anyone who hasn't heard the entire album has no room to comment on her talent, because they're probably commenting more on a video they saw. Anyone who *has* heard the album and still doesn't think she's talented...well, sorry, they're wrong and their opinion has probably been colored by her media persona (or more accurately, the mistakes she's made in front of the media that were blown way out of proportion.) She's another one who's scarily talented at a young age. Vickie, I bought _Tidal_ a while back and kinda liked it- then I saw her appearance on Saturday Night Live and was astonished by her *total* lack of singing ability and her listless persona: I remember commenting here that she exhibited all the personality of a turnip and I think I was being generous. And I did NOT see the awards gaffe and never considered that, but when she started appearing in the gossip rags, it was time to bail out, IMO. Yes, _Tidal_ is really not a bad album, but I can't help but think that it was studio gimmickry and maybe limitless retakes until she got it right...... Whatever, she lost me very quickly like few artists have, though Jewel's total sellout may end up rivaling or surpassing my disillusionment with Fiona. Richard n.p. Jane Siberry: CHILD ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 01:15:40 -0500 From: Greg Dunn Subject: Re: Defending Fiona Not picking on anyone, just bouncing a few of my own opinions off the list: >Vickie, I bought _Tidal_ a while back and kinda liked it- then I saw >her appearance on Saturday Night Live and was astonished by her *total* >lack of singing ability and her listless persona Funny thing -- I was quite impressed with _Tidal_ as well, so I jumped at the chance to see her live in concert here in Indy. Interestingly, I was hanging around backstage before the show and got to meet Fiona, minus makeup and stage fright. She was nice, friendly, and laughed easily. I think she relates better to small groups of people than huge crowds. Recall that she NEVER played live in front of an audience before her first tour; she seemed quite overwhelmed by the attention and remarked during the show that she really really wanted to get back home as soon as the tour was over... Oh yeah, the show. I was front row center, watching her play and sing from about 10 feet away. Other than the fact that she was obviously daunted by the pressing crowd, she exhibited what I would consider a fair amount of personality -- talking to individual members of the audience, cracking jokes, and even relating the stories behind a few of her most personal songs. Of course, she's about the same age as my daughter, so I guess I was distinguishing personality from teenage "attitude" out of habit. ;-) Her voice is untrained, certainly, but I thought she had a fair amount of natural talent and I was never annoyed or embarrassed by her singing. Believe me, I've heard some MAJOR acts exhibit bad vocals away from the protective environment of the studio. :-) I missed the SNL appearance, so I can't comment on it... Fiona sure didn't rely on FX for the live show I saw, though, I'll vouch for that. Just MHO... - -- | Greg Dunn | I really think it's better this | | gregdunn@indy.net | way; the more you suffer, the | | GregDunn@aol.com | more you show you really care. | | http://www.indy.net/~gregdunn/ | The Offspring | ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 00:46:36 -0600 From: Mark Lowry Subject: Emm Gryner digs Beck Hey, The Music Blvd news service has been running top 10s of the year by other artists. This one came across today. I don't know who she is, but I've seen her name mentioned here quite a bit. Emm Gryner 1. Beck, Mutations 2. Transistor Sound & Lighting Co., Transistor Sound & Lighting Co. 3. Morcheeba, Big Calm 4. U.N.K.L.E., Psyence Fiction 5. Belle and Sebastian, The Boy with the Arab Strap 6. Lauryn Hill, The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill 7. Unbelieveable Truth, Almost Here 8. Pulp, This Is Hardcore 9. Sloan, Navy Blues 10. Grant Lee Buffalo, Jubilee Later, Mark n.p. the new Murder City Devils ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 00:49:52 -0600 From: "Xenu's Sister" Subject: Re: Defending Fiona At 12:43 AM 12/17/98 -0500, Richard wrote: >Vickie, I bought _Tidal_ a while back and kinda liked it- then I saw >her appearance on Saturday Night Live and was astonished by her *total* >lack of singing ability and her listless persona > >Yes, _Tidal_ is really not a bad album, but I can't help but think that >it was studio gimmickry and maybe limitless retakes until she got it >right...... Whatever, she lost me very quickly like few artists have, >though Jewel's total sellout may end up rivaling or surpassing my >disillusionment with Fiona. I've never seen Fiona live, but I saw her perform on Sessions at 54th Street and she was excellent. There was no studio gimmickry there. Whatever, I'm not interesting in arguing about Fiona to anyone. I've said what I wanted to say about her and have no more to say. It isn't as if she were one of my goddesses or anything. I know what I hear, and I hear talent, but she doesn't speak to my heart the way Kate and Happy and Tori do. As I said, I wish Fiona the best. What she does with her talent in the future remains to be seen, and though I'm curious about it, it's not a pressing issue to me. Vickie ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V4 #440 **************************