From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V4 #419 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Tuesday, December 1 1998 Volume 04 : Number 419 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Today's your birthday, friend... [Mike Matthews ] What is the deal with age restrictions? ["Chris Montville" ] RE: What is the deal with age restrictions? ["Foghorn J Fornorn" ] Re: What is the deal with age restrictions? [FAMarcus@aol.com] I kissed a Jill ["Mike Mendelson" ] Re: What is the deal with age restrictions? [meredith ] Re: Rachael Sage (was Re:Ani Aust Tour/New Album) [meredith ] Re: Rachael Sage (was Re:Ani Aust Tour/New Album) ["Jeffrey C. Burka" ] Re: What is the deal with age restrictions? [rjk1@cs.wustl.edu (Bob Kollm] Dead Can Dance hope [Mark Lowry ] Susan McKeown at the Bowery Ballroom [Hillary Jackson ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 03:00:03 -0500 (EST) From: Mike Matthews Subject: Today's your birthday, friend... i*i*i*i*i*i i*i*i*i*i*i *************** *****HAPPY********* **************BIRTHDAY********* *************************************************** *************************************************************************** ****************** Mirko Bulaja (mbuly@student.math.hr) ******************* *************************************************************************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Mirko Bulaja Sat November 30 1974 Block Juha Sorva Thu December 02 1976 Sagittarius Chip Lueck Thu December 05 1968 Sagittarius Michele Wellck December 08 Sagittarius Jeremy J. Corry Fri December 11 1970 Sagittarius Renee Canada Tue December 13 1977 Sagittarius Julie C. Kammerzell Sun December 15 1968 Sagittarius/Scorpio combo Gloria Jackson-Nefertiti Sat December 15 1956 Sagittarius Damon Harper Tue December 16 1975 COOL BANANAS Laura Clifford Tue December 17 1957 Sagittarius Dirk Kastens Tue December 17 1963 Sagittarius Milla Wed December 17 1975 Sagittarius Chris Schernwetter Tue December 17 1974 Sagittarius Sherry Haddock Sat December 17 1960 Sagittarius Tracy Benbrook Tue December 18 1973 Sagittarius Mark Lowry Mon December 22 1969 Capricarius Uli Grepel Wed December 25 1968 Steinbock Joseph Wasicek Sat December 25 1976 Brown Eagle Stuart Castergine Mon December 30 1963 You Are Here - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 03:17:03 -5000 From: "Chris Montville" Subject: What is the deal with age restrictions? I suppose this isn't something people think about much once they get older, but whats the deal with age restriction on concerts? When I was under 18, it seemed like every show was 18-and-over. Now more and more shows in NYC (and practically everything in Philly within 500' of alchohol) are 21-and-over... why is this? How much of an inconvenience is it for venues to do 18-and over shows? Or even (perish the thought) all-ages shows? Why is it so hard to check ID's at the bar? And more to the point, why can't I see Susan McKeown on Friday? Why does this keep happening? Chris. +-------------------------------------------------------+ | Chris Montville / cmontvil@eden.rutgers.edu | +--------------------------+----------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 09:21:08 -0800 From: Neile Graham Subject: Re: What is the deal with age restrictions? Chris Montville wrote: >I suppose this isn't something people think about much once they get >older, but whats the deal with age restriction on concerts? This isn't something that I've had to worry about for a long time now, but it does seem that venues are more strict about their age restrictions and have to count their entire premises as off-limits to anyone underage and not just the bar. I think in particular enforcement of the laws has become much stricter--bars really have lost their licenses and paid large fines for not checking IDs and now everyone's more nervous and less willing to take any small kind of chance of coming into conflict with the law. It's too bad that so many shows are in alchol-selling places, but that's who can (barely) afford to put the smaller shows on. - --Neile - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Neile Graham ..... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ..... neile@sff.net The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music .... http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:09:52 -0500 From: "Foghorn J Fornorn" Subject: RE: What is the deal with age restrictions? In Connecticut, for instance, there are various types of licenses for establishments. One of the most common is a "Café" license, covering many bar/restaurants. State law forbids anyone under 21 from even being in such a place unless accompanied by legal guardian. Ironically, an exception exists for employees - bartenders and wait staff may be 18-21, may serve drinks but obviously not consume, and must vacate the premises immediately at the end of their shift. I remember going to a comedy club in NY state years ago where they required age 25 or better. So in some cases it's the choice of the venue, and as Neile says, everyone is more paranoid these days. But in other cases, it really is a legal requirement. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:32:22 -0800 From: Neile Graham Subject: Re: Neile's discoveries At 5:01 PM +1100 11/20/98, Andrew Fries wrote: >Neile recently mentioned two artists I have never heard of before: Sara Ayers >and Margot O'Breslin... Well, I visited their websites and now I'm going to >order a CD from both of them. My credit card starts to tremble whenever I get >on the Net! Anyhow, do check them out and if you like what you hear enough to >order a disk or two, just send the bill to Neile - it was her fault after >all :) > >Sara: >Margot: Just a note to let people know that the address on Margot O'Breslin's web page isn't correct. Her current address is: Margot O'Breslin P.O. Box 1431 Gambier, OH 43022 I highly recommend both these discs. And Pepper Acton. >n.p: Cat Power - Moon Pix. Reading the notes I just noticed with some suprise >that this CD was in fact recorded in Australia! And this one! I love the bluesy feel of this! BTW, I guess I just don't get Rachael Sage. I bought both her albums, and while they're okay there nothing I think I'm going to particularly get enthused about. Her musical style sounds so much like Ani's that I expect her to be as good as Ani, and the lyrics in particular seem forced and awkward and run by rhyme rather than sense. Sometimes Ani's come across like that but they seem intentionally so, as though she's laughing at herself a little. I think that may be the difference: Rachael Sage's sense of humour is buried and the lyrics are much more personal than Ani's personae. It seems unfair to compare her to someone who has had more albums to develop and grow, but so much of her style comes from Ani it seems unavoidable. For me her take on it isn't different enough. Interesting, too, that her vocal style is very like Susan Court's. While I like it in Susan, my general discomfort with Rachael's songwriting skills make me distrust her vocal control as well. Weird, isn't it? Anyway, I _will_ be giving the discs more time. I haven't even had them a week, and I'm still obsessing with Margot O'Breslin's very different take on the Tori thing. For me Margot adds a very focused passion and sound to the girl-and-piano thing. - --Neile - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Neile Graham ..... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ..... neile@sff.net The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music .... http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 16:51:28 EST From: FAMarcus@aol.com Subject: Re: What is the deal with age restrictions? on the other hand, i wish i was the age that was needed to be restricted............ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 16:48:49 -0600 From: "Mike Mendelson" Subject: I kissed a Jill Well, OK, it was actually just two hugs. Saturday night I went to see Jill Sobule play with Lloyd Cole at the Double Door in Chicago. I wasn't going to go. Well, originally I was, but then I decided I didn't know anything about lloyd cole (for a long time I mixed him up with John Cale ;-), and haven't heard Jill's new album (though I have the 1st two). I adore her first album (Things Here Are Different). I was underwhelmed by the second one. Then, at the last minute, I decided what the heck (what's a canadian to do on thanksgiving weekend, anyways?) and went for it. In retrospect I made the right choice. Lloyd Cole is, well, unextraordinary. He is virtually emotionless on stage and his songs lack energy and conviction. They are not offensive, they just are not impressive. For some reason, he has lots of fans, though. Don't know why. When I arrived, I chatted with the woman selling Jill's CD, who said that she was actually opening *and* in the Negatives (Lloyd's current band, his first being the commotions, I think). So this made me happy after plunking down $17.50. At least I get to her playing and singing all night. And it was a long night. Starting aroung 10pm, the show went past 1am. Lloyd started with an acoustic set with just himself and his guitarist (neil) -- this was pretty squarely in the "sensitive-new-age-depression-longing-singer-song-writer-balladeer-dreamer-a lmost-had-her-now-she's-gone-but-boy-was-it-almost-swell-while-she-was-here" genre, with little to no variation at all. All the songs were interchangeable to my ear. After playing for a bit, he brought Jill out and she was center-stage, solo, for over 1/2 hour. This naturally was great. Compared to Cole, (or anyone for that matter) she is a ball of musical energy. She is a great guitarist, sounding like a whole band in one person! I was most impressed. She just came alive on stage like few performers do. She was animated, fun, funky, funny, jumped around alot, and quite cute (though much tinier that I would have guessed from the picture on THAD and from what I recall having seen her open for Joe Jackson 100 years ago). She played stuff mostly from the latest album, some from #2, but none from THAD... that is, until I yelled out "play something from the 1st album", which caused quite a stir from her and from a guy in the audience. He came right over to me and said "do you know her?" Turns out he lived in the same complex as her in Denver many years ago, and has followed (loosely) ever since. He asked me if I wanted to meet her after the show, and I said sure, so we did. Anyways, she looked a little startled that anyone in the audience was interested in her first album, and she proceeded to tell a Todd Rundgren (producer of THAD) story -- they recorded the record around labor day 1992 (??) and he had this big party with 150 of his friends at his house/studio (he has a studio in his basement) at which there was "a pile of mushrooms on a table that went up to the ceiling" and the whole weekend people just tripped out and it was wild. So that was the Todd story. Then she proceeded to play perhaps my fave song (tied with Evian) on the record, the title track and told a story of when she was in Spain on a student exchange, there was this 15-yr-old kid and she was pregnant and Jill gave her some advice and the kid was like "you don't know what you're talking about" and therein lay the basis for the song. It was the hilight of the show for me and worth every cent of the admission price to see/hear her play this. Reminds of the time I saw Jonatha Brooke and asked her to play something from GiG and she played the title track of that CD and it totally was other-worldly (i.e. great). Sobule is one of those people who have an incredible facility with the guitar, who seem to just effortlessly go at it and make it sound amazing so much so that you look in disbelief and cannot understand how *that* sound can come out of her doing *that* to that instrument. Wow. I would put Shawn Colvin in that camp, and Jonatha, and Susan Werner... anyways, there it was, this very quirky, pixie-ish woman playing her songs for a while until Lloyd came back with his band and they actually backed *her* up on a few songs (which were equally great) and then they switched and Lloyd played the rest of the night except for I kissed a Girl which they did towards the end of the show. Watching Jill play backup/lead guitar (??) for Cole was just fine. She still did some cool stuff on her gretsch and the mini-acoustic she had played before. Fun stuff. Who cares what the songs were, I just watched her the whole time. After the show, true to his word, the guy came to find me and met Jill downstairs where we chatted for a while and tried to entice her to come out with us. (This guy must have been loaded, since he bought us all drinks and wanted to take us to the House of Blues where he is some kind of member or something.) Anyways, Jill politely bowed out (she was very tired). She told me she had hooked up with Cole at an Irish songwriters thingy where Cole saw her play and asked if she wanted to be in his touring band. She initially was hesitant but then figured it would be fun to just play and not have to worry about being the main act on stage, and she has enjoyed it so far. I felt watching her the same way I felt watching Jane siberry sing backup vocals for IG on that suffragette thing. Jill she blows Cole out of the water, but hey, a gig is a gig. She is living in NYC now. She says she doesn't have a website but wants to get one soon. I snooped around a bit on the web and found some stuff but not too much. Anyways, she also gave out her email address to everyone (send me email if you want it). I asked her if she had ever heard of Ecto or Happy and she said no and wasn;t too interested in hearing about them. So that's the story. Bottom line -- if you like her music, go see her on this tour and don't be afraid of having to sit thru alot of nondescript Cole music. She promised next time she was in chicago she would play on her own. I hope she gets the recognition she deserves. - -mjm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 20:19:10 -0500 From: meredith Subject: Re: What is the deal with age restrictions? Hi! Chris wondered: >How much of an inconvenience is it for venues to do 18-and over shows? Or >even (perish the thought) all-ages shows? Why is it so hard to check ID's >at the bar? And more to the point, why can't I see Susan McKeown on >Friday? Why does this keep happening? Well, in the particular case of Susan's show I think it's probably because the Bowery Ballroom is owned by the same people who own the Mercury Lounge, which got nailed for serving minors a couple summers ago and almost got shut down because of it. Ever since then you can't even stand in front of the Merc without showing ID. (Believe me, I know - I forgot my driver's license one time going to see Katell Keineg there, and only bumping into someone fortuitous (not to mention remarkably patient) got me in.) It only stands to reason that the Bowery Ballroom would be the same way. In general, the places in NYC have tightened up a lot in the past few years because of Mayor Rudy's "quality of life" laws, which have cracked down on bars that serve minors in a BIG way. Unfortunately, what that means is that if you're not 21, even if you don't intend to drink, you're basically screwed. :P I can sympathize, really. It took me about 6 extra years to hit 21, I swear, especially after having spent my 19th year in a country where I was legal. Now I wouldn't mind having that problem again ... funny how these things happen, isn't it? :) Chris, if you're willing to drive an extra hour, Susan's playing at the Acoustic Studio in Stamford, CT on Sunday the 6th, doing two shows, at 3 and 6. She won't be with the Chanting House (that I know of, anyway), but it's definitely going to be a great performance. +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 20:40:28 -0500 From: meredith Subject: Re: Rachael Sage (was Re:Ani Aust Tour/New Album) Hi! Jeffy mused: >Interesting that you should leave out the other influence Sage thanks >in her liner notes, Marc Cohn, because I hear his influence ALL OVER >her piano playing. Especially the piano opening to "Ode to a Sailor," >which to my ear could be a Cohn piece. Hmm. Well, I forgot his name because I didn't have the liner notes in front of me ... and plus, I don't think I've ever heard a Marc Cohn song, so. Neile commented: >BTW, I guess I just don't get Rachael Sage. I bought both her albums, and >while they're okay there nothing I think I'm going to particularly get >enthused about. Her musical style sounds so much like Ani's that I expect >her to be as good as Ani, and the lyrics in particular seem forced and >awkward and run by rhyme rather than sense. Sometimes Ani's come across >like that but they seem intentionally so, as though she's laughing at >herself a little. Wow. I think Rachael is laughing at herself too, though. Someone told me that she used to be a professional ballerina, and if you keep that in mind, lines like "I only wanna eat candy and I hate the word nutrition" have a bit of an extra punch. >I think that may be the difference: Rachael Sage's sense of humour is >buried and the lyrics are much more personal than Ani's personae. I don't think it's buried ... I just think it's subtle. And does it really make a difference that her lyrics are personal? For me that gives them more meaning, but then again, that's just me. >It seems >unfair to compare her to someone who has had more albums to develop and >grow, but so much of her style comes from Ani it seems unavoidable. For me >her take on it isn't different enough. I'd like to see Ani play piano like that and use that same eclectic instrumentation. I think the similarities between them are in the style of the lyrics and to a certain extent in the vocal style, but they pretty much end there. >Weird, isn't it? Yes. :) But I just don't "get" Imogen Heap (if I wanted to listen to Alanis I'd buy her albums), so I guess we both have our deficiencies. ;) +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | | *** TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: *** | | *** http://www.smoe.org/meth/trajectory.html *** | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 23:24:05 -0500 (EST) From: candy darling Subject: new Ani!!! and the cover photo looks cool...it's yellow and she's jumping in the air!! You can listen at the link from www.ubl.com Ani DiFranco Up Up Up Up Up Up Righteous Babe Album Release:1/19/99 Everyone's favorite folk-punkster grrl, Ani DiFranco, steps it "Up" with her latest album. Still full of the stop-and-go finger-bleeding style that makes here live performances so electric, Up also features slow ballads that exhibit an innocent voice and thoughtful lyrics. She also delves into sound experimentation, jamming with a pocket cajun, space phone, clavinet, and even an unlikely water cooler. It's not due out until January 1999, so listen now! 'tis of thee virtue come away from it jukebox angel food up up up up up up ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 23:44:43 -0500 From: "Jeffrey C. Burka" Subject: Re: Rachael Sage (was Re:Ani Aust Tour/New Album) meth sez: > Hmm. Well, I forgot his name because I didn't have the liner notes in > front of me ... and plus, I don't think I've ever heard a Marc Cohn song I think _everyone's_ heard "Walking in Memphis." Hell, it was even used in an episode of _The X-Files_ (a version sung by Cher and apparently lipsynched by a drag queen (? it certainly wasn't Cher on that stage!)) jeff (npimh: remnants of the really fabulous Great Big Sea concert he just got home from...much better than when he saw them open for Sinead and the Chieftains) - -- |Jeffrey C. Burka|||||http://www.cqi.com/~jburka|||||"I've got time to rest / | ||||||||||||||| And I've got a clear, able mind that sees my life going fine. | ||| 'Cause everything I need is right here in my hands..." --Melissa Ferrick | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 00:15:48 -0500 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Zen Cohen I just picked up a CD that's got me scratching my head. Zen Cohen is a poet and multi-instrumentalist whose "The Future" is one of the more all-over-the-place things I've heard in a long time. Vocally, she's somewhere between Alanis and Yoko. Her music runs from free improv (including a duet for wordless voice and tuba) to sorta folk stuff. The texts range from what I *think* is a Javanese poem to beat stream-of-consciousness to, well, sorta folk stuff. It's on the Blood Muscle Records label (her own?). The recording is as mixed as the material -- the dynamic range on a single track, mostly voice and guitar, was wide enough to have me flapping the volume knob up and down. Come to think of it, maybe I should crosspost this to the Zorn list :-) Anyone else heard (of) her? - -- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 23:24:22 -0600 From: rjk1@cs.wustl.edu (Bob Kollmeyer) Subject: Re: What is the deal with age restrictions? "Chris Montville" writes: > > How much of an inconvenience is it for venues to do 18-and over shows? Or > even (perish the thought) all-ages shows? Why is it so hard to check ID's > at the bar? In addition to the alcohol issues, there appears to be a curfew issue around these parts - I suspect it is similar elsewhere. All ages shows have to clear the place by 11:00 (or is it midnight?), 18+ it's everyone out by 1:00 and 21+ seem to be able to go 'til 3:00. Mind you, that's all the more reason (in my eyes) to have all ages/18+ shows, especially in the middle of the week. But then I don't run a bar. bob, who's had to pass on more than one weeknight show that had the main act coming on at 11:30... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 23:27:16 -0600 From: Mark Lowry Subject: Dead Can Dance hope Hey, I pulled this from the Music Boulevard news service today. Looks like we can rest easy (maybe) that they haven't broken up. Mark n.p. Babe the Blue Ox _The Way We Were_ - ------------------ Amid rumors of the band's demise, Dead Can Dance have cancelled a slew of upcoming European tour dates and a proposed North American tour date due to "scheduling conflicts," according to a spokesperson from Sacks and Co., the band's public relations firm. Dead Can Dance were scheduled to kick off a European tour on March 11 in Paris, with dates in Germany, Belgium, Italy, Greece, the Netherlands, Poland, and the Czech Republic to follow, and winding up in Hamburg, Germany on April 6. At press time, there were no plans to reschedule the tour. A North American tour was to take place following the European dates, but that idea has been sacked as well. Rumors that the band has broken up were denied and, in fact, countered with the fact that the band is currently finishing up the follow-up to 1996's Spiritchaser in Ireland. The as-yet- untitled LP (the band's eighth) is scheduled for a spring 1999 release on 4AD Records. According to the spokesperson, one conflict which contributed to the tour's cancellation is that vocalist Lisa Gerrard was presented with an opportunity to do some soundtrack work on an upcoming film project by director Michael Mann (Heat, The Last of the Mohicans). It was unclear at press time if Mann's upcoming film, tentatively titled Man of the People, is the movie in question. - - by Kevin Raub ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 01:20:08 -0500 From: Hillary Jackson Subject: Susan McKeown at the Bowery Ballroom Just a reminder that Susan McKeown is playing the Bowery Ballroom this Friday December 4th. She'll have the full Chanting House with her. The card says the show starts at 9pm but I also know that Mila Drumke is playing so I don't know if that means Mila is on at 9 and Susan is on at 10, or what. The number to call for info is 212-533-2111. This is the first time Susan and the band have played New York since MAY!!!!!! See you there!! hillary ====================================== Hillary Jackson 468 Sixth Avenue #4 New York, NY 10011 212.675.9629 212.645.0298 (fax) hillaryj@mindspring.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 22:58:27 -0700 From: neal copperman Subject: Re: Neile's discoveries At 1:32 PM -0800 11/30/98, Neile Graham wrote: >Just a note to let people know that the address on Margot O'Breslin's web >page isn't correct. Her current address is: > > Margot O'Breslin > P.O. Box 1431 > Gambier, OH 43022 Oh good. Glad I ordered from the address on the web site. I don't think they should be allowed to post an inacurrate address on their web pages! I gather it eventually gets to the right place. >>n.p: Cat Power - Moon Pix. Reading the notes I just noticed with some suprise >>that this CD was in fact recorded in Australia! > >And this one! I love the bluesy feel of this! This is the first disc in the Village Voices turkeys of the year list - for what that is worth. neal np: The Scrappy Bitches ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V4 #419 **************************