From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V4 #315 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Thursday, September 10 1998 Volume 04 : Number 315 Today's Subjects: ----------------- ecto tastes [Carolyn Andre ] Today's your birthday, friend... [Mike Matthews ] Bonnie/Beth at Bumbershoot (was re:LONG POST) [Alundra Madusa Blayze ] Over the Rhine/Cowboy Junkies [Riphug@aol.com] Re: irate customer ["jeffrey c. burka" ] Re: irate customer [Riphug@aol.com] Re: irate customer [Stuart Myerburg ] Re: irate customer [Old Spice ] Re: irate customer ["jeffrey c. burka" ] Re: irate customer [Yves Denneulin ] Re: irate customer [Old Spice ] Re: in-your-face music [Greg Jumper ] Re: irate customer [Stuart Myerburg ] Re: irate customer [Stuart Myerburg ] Re: irate customer ["Joseph S. Zitt" ] Re: irate customer [Eponine ] Re: irate customer [Chip Lueck ] Re: irate customer [Old Spice ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 01:22:00 -0500 From: Carolyn Andre Subject: ecto tastes dag-nabbit! I keep *starting* a reply - or at least a contribution - to this discussion, and keep getting caught up in lengthy rhetoric which goes nowhere . Overall, I think emotion comes into play more on my side than the music - my relationship to music depends to a large part on *my* emotional state. Yes, I can pick music that will depress me, and find other music more 'fun'. But the epitome of lasting music with me is that which I can put on *regardless* of my mood; if I'm 'up', it may enhance the enjoyment... if I'm stressed out, it may even things out a bit ... if I'm 'down', it may even out the keel a bit. Offhand, I can't think of a piece of music that brought an epiphany. I used to think my tastes were influenced by strength of lyrics, but have come to realize that its more a matter of the *combined* harmony of the lyrics (if there are any) and the instrumentation ... "instrumentation" actually consisting of both the vocals and the other 'instruments' ... the artist choosing the songs that fit their voice, and the backing musicians & instruments that fit the voice and the song ... tho I've a distinct preference for slightly obscure lyrics - analogies, metaphors - than the direct, in-your-face self-analysis of some of the contemporary singer-songwriters. So I came to ecto with recommendations from Mike Mendelson & ecto-mama Vickie who I'd encountered repeatedly at various ectoish shows in the area (Loreena McKennitt, October Project, Susan Werner, Mary Coughlan, & I forget who else). and suggestions to look up the list from ecto-talent Susan McKeown. first of all, I've finally been given a legitimate excuse for my music addiction (EWS) . and yes, the list and great ectophile guide *have* pointed me to some new music. But then I started checking out the various websites & sound samples of many of the ecto favorites. And realized something shameful about my musical tastes ... superficial!!! *I* am influenced by the voice more than I thought!! ...dare I even mention it, but - best way I can describe it left-handed & backwards: I'm attracted to music which is carried by strong, rich voices. more alto-ish for women. (and definitely not that strained tenor that too many of the popular male singer-songwriters - that aren't mentioned on ecto - seem to display). ... put the other way around, it seems to me that most of the ecto faves have lighter voices, not so far as what I call 'little girl voices' like [I'm blanking - black glasses, the one-hit first album & pink rug 2nd album??], but ethereal, lighter & thinner ... Maybe I just have a hearing problem that deals better with altos than sopranos . ... so, the plus list would include folks like Susan McKeown, Lisa Moscatiello, Mary Black, Susan Werner, Mary Chapin Carpenter, Mary Fahl/October Project, Kate Campbell, - but also Loreena McKennitt, Sarah McLachlan. And I also quite recently realized that I listen to Cowboy Junkies as if its an instrumental group, with Margo's voice an instrument; I recognize the songs & the albums, but don't ask me the lyrics! . To cut things finer, all of that list *except for* McKennitt and McLachlan would fit into my category of music that works for me with any mood. so, am I kicked off of ecto? or just accepted as one of the weird examples of ecto-diversity?? (and, can *anyone* explain what the common factors of my tastes *are*??!!) Regards, Carolyn Andre - ------------------- Chicago, IL / USA | Support Independent Music! Use the Internet candre@enteract.com | Carolyn's House of Music: http://house-of-music.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 03:00:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike Matthews Subject: Today's your birthday, friend... i*i*i*i*i*i i*i*i*i*i*i *************** *****HAPPY********* **************BIRTHDAY********* *************************************************** *************************************************************************** ****************** Holly Tominack (htominack@erols.com) ******************* *************************************************************************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Holly Tominack Thu September 10 1970 Virgo Sharon Nichols (Rhodeways) Wed September 11 1963 Victim of Christianity Heather Russell September 11 Total Virgosity Karron Lynn Lane Tue September 14 1751 Ophelia Virgo Troy Wollenslegel Mon September 18 1972 Virgo Joyce Wermont Sat September 18 1954 Virgo Mark Frabotta Sun September 19 1965 Don't even THINK about parking here Joe Zitt Sat September 20 1958 Will Hack for CDs Ani DiFranco Wed September 23 1970 Virgo Paul Kim Sat October 01 1977 fetal position Dan Riley Sun October 08 1961 Libra Neile Graham Wed October 08 1958 pen Quenby M. Chunco Tue October 08 1968 Crunchy Frog Mike Garland Wed October 08 1952 Creature_of_the_Night Irvin Lin Tue October 09 1973 Libra Michael C. Berch Wed October 10 1956 No parking Chris Gagnon Sat October 10 1970 Libra - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 00:35:24 -0700 From: Alundra Madusa Blayze Subject: Bonnie/Beth at Bumbershoot (was re:LONG POST) "Bill" wrote: > [...]As we settled into our seats Bonnie was > putting on the final touches to what turned out > to be the last song of her set, her silky-smooth > voice playing out a poignant ballad as only she > can do. And there was no encore. Or perhaps > that was the encore. > [...] Sorry that you missed Bonnie, Bill. I would imagine that her show was similar to her performance on Monday night at Seattle's yearly Bumbershoot festival. She closed out this year's fest in front of a huge crowd at the main stage. Even though the show was outdoors in a huge stadium-type of venue, the sound system was excellent. My sister decided to stake out her place as near the stage as she could for her favorite artist Bonnie, while I chose to blow off seeing Joan Baez and Keb Mo (who each did a set before Bonnie took the same stage) and go see Burning Spear instead at another stage. I arrived right as Keb Mo was doing his encore, and 15 minutes later Bonnie came on and did probably the best show I've ever seen her do (I've seen her about 5 times over the years). I loved this one especially since she was very spontaneous and seemed in the mood to play more ballads than rockers. And long ballads, as well. Bonnie put her heart into her playing. My sis said later that during an especially poignant song (the name of which escapes me), Ms. Raitt was actually shedding a few tears and had to turn away from the crowd as she felt self-conscious. As you mentioned, her voice is in fine form. A performance I will long remember and treasure. Earlier in the day, we went to see Beth Orton do a set in an indoor auditorium. Mary Lou Lord had played before Beth, but we didn't catch Mary Lou, choosing instead to go see Peter Green (of original Fleetwood Mac fame) do a FANTASTIC set, god was I happy I saw him. It was like being transported back to 1970. :) Anyway, we arrived as Beth was doing her third song, so we caught most of her show. Wonderful! Beth was accompanied by another male acoustic guitarist, and to my surprise played more new songs (well, songs I've never heard) than songs from _Trailer Park_. Heck, I didn't mind at all, since just being able to see her live was all I had hoped for. Beth is one of the best new artists that I've had the pleasure of discovering in the last year or so. Larry (alundra@olypen.com) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 02:53:08 -0500 (CDT) From: kerrywhite@webtv.net (kerry white) Subject: re: HR Hi, I think I just sent a confusing e-mail to Joyce. I think I sent it "reply" instead of to Ecto. There is one bit in which I write, "...to send you (Joyce) a sampler...". In group that made sense. At any rate I suggested that some1 send her a sampler tape of latter HR. I'd do it but I'm about to drive cross country. bye, KrW TV or not TV? That is the question. Whether to suffer the lies of outrageous pitchmen, or to slit your throat with an electro-coated stainless steel blade? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 04:56:06 -0400 From: jjh969@juno.com (John J Henshon) Subject: Re: a different view on Happy <> >I definitely identify with the "chills" effect (and fondly remember >previous discussions here on "goose bump moments"); however, I'm >wondering about music bringing one to tears. Do you mean this >literally? Movies (and books, occasionally) can get me choked up, but >I don't think music has ever really done that to me... I was starting >to conclude that my being male might be part of the "problem", but I >notice that some follow-ups from other male posters have also >mentioned music bringing them to tears. I've been aware of this >disparity in my reactions for some time, but hadn't previously thought >much about why it existed. I'm sure the presence of visual imagery in >film explains part of the difference. > Greg I've had the experience of being physically effected by music without any conscious emotional element being in play. A teary eye brought on by sympathetic vibration of the eye's water molecules ? Sort of like the tingling you can get in your eyes from being too close to a poorly shielded cheepo microwave oven. The military experimented with broadcasting low frequency sound waves on the field of battle aiming to elicit loss of bowel control in their opponents. They can't shoot at me if their too busy taking a dump was the thinking. The non-linearity of their transducers caused them to abandon the effort. It was a shitty idea from the get go. ;^)) The combination of physical and emotional aspects of music can rip tears from the eyes of the manliest of men and melt the coldest of hearts. J.H. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 05:04:40 -0400 From: jjh969@juno.com (John J Henshon) Subject: JJH969: Re: Ectoparty in Dortmund, Germany On Thu, 10 Sep 1998 07:34:53 +0200 "Klaus Kluge" writes: >Announcement - Ectoparty in Dortmund, Germany >Celebrating the release and tour of "Many worlds are born tonight", an >ectoparty will be held in Dortmund, Germany on October 18th. It was >about time, wasn't it? >We've already invited the usual suspects directly, but everyone else >is invited as well. If you are interested to join us, please contact us >at klaus.kluge@gmx.de for details. >Keep on listening... >...Klaus & Claudia Susan McKeown will be in that neck of the woods around that time. Perhaps Klaus, Claudia or some of their Ecto-guests might be interested. Susan McKeown tour dates. Thursday, 15 October - Casino / Herisau, Switzerland Friday, 16 October - Volkshaus / Zurich, Switzerland Saturday, 17 October - Stadtcasino / Bern, Switzerland Sunday, 18 October - Theater im National / Bern, Switzerland Tuesday, 20 October - Gurzenich / Koln, Germany Wednesday, 21 October - Burgerhaus Sprendlingen / Dreieich, Germany Thursday, 22 October - Schwabenlandhalle / Fellbach, Germany Friday, 23 October - Circus Krone / Munchen, Germany Saturday, 24 October - Sportzentrum 19 Uhr / Landsberg, Germany Sunday, 25 October - Frankfurter Hof / Mainz, Germany Monday, 26 October - Saalbau / Essen, Germany Tuesday, 27 October - Musikhalle / Hamburg, Germany Tuesday, 28 October - HdK / Berlin, Germany Wednesday, 29 October - Pier 2 / Bremen, Germany Thursday, 30 October - Tonhalle / Dusseldorf, Germany Friday, 31 October - Stadthalle / Kreutzal, Germany _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 07:44:12 EDT From: Riphug@aol.com Subject: Re: Faces with names... In a message dated 9/10/98 2:46:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, lageng@hotmail.com writes: << I liked the idea of putting my face out for you to watch very much, so here I am! http://www.pol.no/~haakonl >> Hey! Was that a trick? All I can see is your eyes! Or is it just my browser? Jill :D ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 07:42:51 -0500 From: "Mike Mendelson" Subject: irate customer I am ver disappointed in Music Blvd. It took them 5 days to figure out that all 3 CDs I ordered were out of stock. I sent them a long nasty letter. Anyone else had crappy experience with this outfit? I would highly UNrecommend anyone from patronizing them. What irks me the most is that the CDs I ordered were *new* -- i.e. they *should* be in stock now if they were *ever* in stock! 1 1 Many Worlds Are Bor Happy Rhodes 2 1 Fantastic Voyage James, Susan 3 1 Flaming Red Patty Griffin - -mjm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 09:11:31 EDT From: Riphug@aol.com Subject: Over the Rhine/Cowboy Junkies In a message dated 9/9/98 7:29:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bill@wagill.com writes: << Yesterday evening I had planned to be concert-going with my ecto-buddy Jill, to see Over The Rhine opening for Cowboy Junkies. >> I'm really sorry that Bill couldn't join me for the OTR/CJ concert here in Cincy. But I'm glad you got to get a peek at Bonnie (with Sarah, no less!) and saw Mr. Clapton ("Tears in Heaven" always makes me cry inside). Over the Rhine was predictably wonderful. They did more of their slower songs for this concert than they had at the louder Bogart's venue. The Taft Theatre is sooooo much nicer than Bogart's -- even Margo Timmons commented on that fact at one point! Of course, I can't remember set lists, but here are some of the songs they did (in no particular order): Poughkeepsie All I Need is Everything Latter Days Lucy and a new one called Moth The Cowboy Junkies set list included: Blue Guitar Miles From Our Home The Summer of Discontent Blue Moon Revisited (Song for Elvis) Sweet Jane Lost My Driving Wheel Misguided Angel Crescent Moon Anniversary Song Terri Templeton, Karen Berquist, and Linford Detweiler from Over the Rhine performed with the Cowboy Junkies for much of their set. Margo and Karen's voices blended nicely together -- I thought they even looked somewhat like sisters. ;-) Margo has such a sweet stage presence.....Someone had sent her a dozen (or two) yellow roses and they were sitting on a table next to her for the whole performance. She made a point of thanking the couple who had sent them to her, and also mentioned the hairdresser she and Karen had seen that morning. She also talked about how Karen had talked her into wearing some unusual nail polish colors and that she'd worn green polish for their appearance on Good Morning America......then found out that Karen only wears the weirder colors on her toes! (Ok, you had to be there....) Just before the encore, Margo told the audience that she and the band would be coming out into the lobby for a meet-and-greet as soon as she'd changed into *something more comfortable*. I wish I could have stayed for that, but my husband was anxious to get out of the potentially packed parking lot and get home to our babysitter. When they came out to do their encore, Margo said something about how they probably came back too soon, but that she hates having to stand there and clap for ten minutes before a band comes out for their encore. How considerate! ;-) Other semi-connected thoughts: Michael Timmins is quite the intense guitar player, bending over his instrument the entire time. The only time actually faced the audience was when Margo was introducing the band! Pete Timmins is quite the jumpy drummer, bouncing along with the music in doubletime......even on the slower songs. ;-) Jeff Bird plays a multitude of percussion and other instruments. He did an electrified mandolin thing, which was not my style but impressive nonetheless. He had two cds for sale in the lobby, samples of which can be heard at his website through Dave's Records of Guelph (www.drog.com/drog). The lighting effects were quite cool and colorful. If my pictures had turned out better, they would have been beautiful. But I had used 800 speed film and no flash....and most of them are very blurry. Bill, I'll be sending you a couple of the better ones since you had to miss this great concert. Geeze......I just remembered! I have no immediate plans for future concerts. :( Better start checking MusiCal and PollStar, I guess...... Jill :D *share the music!* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 09:36:50 -0400 (EDT) From: "jeffrey c. burka" Subject: Re: irate customer mjm palindromed: > I am ver disappointed in Music Blvd. It took them 5 days to figure out > that all 3 CDs I ordered were out of stock. I sent them a long nasty > letter. Anyone else had crappy experience with this outfit? I happened on one of those $10 coupons a few weeks ago and placed an order for 3 discs. One was a vaguely recent release (_Car Wheels On A Gravel Road_ / Lucinda Williams) and I'm blanking on the other two right now (one might have been Emm Gryner's _Public_?). The discs arrived quickly and cheaply, and I had no complaints. Sorry to hear about your bum order. I've used 3 or 4 of the online music sellers and have had good experiences with all of 'em... jeff ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:23:26 EDT From: Riphug@aol.com Subject: Re: irate customer I just received Susan James' Fantastic Voyage from CD Universe with no problems......you might try there. Jill :D ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:32:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Stuart Myerburg Subject: Re: irate customer On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Mike Mendelson wrote: > I am ver disappointed in Music Blvd. It took them 5 days to figure out > that all 3 CDs I ordered were out of stock. I sent them a long nasty > letter. Anyone else had crappy experience with this outfit? I would > highly UNrecommend anyone from patronizing them. What irks me the most > is that the CDs I ordered were *new* -- i.e. they *should* be in stock > now if they were *ever* in stock! I usually use CDNow, but I just ordered from Music Boulevard for the first time because of the discount they were offering. I ordered 2 Split Enz Australian imports, which are not exactly CDs I would expect them to have readily available. But according to the online order checking, they shipped yesterday, meaning it took about 3 days to process the order. That's a little slower than CDNow, but still not bad. Anyway, sorry Music Blvd. screwed up your order. I've never had any trouble with CDNow, so you might want to try them instead. Stuart np: Celebrity Skin - Hole nr: Pale Fire - Vladimir Nabokov _________________________________________________________ Stuart Myerburg Information Services, Rollins School of Public Health http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~stuart _________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:15:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Old Spice Subject: Re: irate customer - ---Stuart Myerburg wrote: > Anyway, sorry Music Blvd. screwed up your order. I've never had any > trouble with CDNow, so you might want to try them instead. Charley weighs in: Hate CDNow. Lifelong boycotter, me. Rather slice my eyeballs vertically than buy from them again. Hope that was helpful. Support your local independents! Surely there's a little Mom&Pop record store who can order stuff for you? If not, let me know, I'll direct you to several--you know the type: dirty floors, peeling pop-poster wallpaper, official cat on the counter, owner works there alone every day but Saturday--that track down whatever obscure indie/impoort I'm looking for and are happy to do mail order. --Ch.D > np: Celebrity Skin - Hole > nr: Pale Fire - Vladimir Nabokov n.p.: my heartbeat, amplified through my skull: at work today with a hallucinatory headache. "Pentagon on line one, want to buy your headache as vehicle of mass destruction." On good days, I lease out my headaches to demolition crews. I can reduce a brick building to flour-fine dust with one throb. n.r.: Mikhail Bulgakov: _The_Master_and_Margarita_ Oy, what a book. Satan comes to Moscow and puts on a magic show with his assistants, including a child-sized black cat who walks upright, drinks from a glass, talks, and, as part of the act, removes with his claws the head of a volunteer from the audience. Meanwhile, anyone who figures out who this magician is and tries to tell someone about it, tries to do something about it, is thrown into an insane asylum. Halfway through the book, and the asylum is filling up. Can't wait to see what happens when they all realize they're there for the same reason. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:19:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "jeffrey c. burka" Subject: Re: irate customer Charley weighs in: > Hate CDNow. Lifelong boycotter, me. Rather slice > my eyeballs vertically than buy from them again. er, other than the "support your local indie", why? > Support your local independents! Surely there's a little Mom&Pop > record store who can order stuff for you? I've got one or two discs on order via the internet right now, and bought 3 from the dirty-floored shop down the street from home last night. Does that make me evil or not? > n.r.: Mikhail Bulgakov: _The_Master_and_Margarita_ Oy, what a book. Yeah, that's why it's been mentioned in numerous NR's (or just come up in literary threads) numerous times before. jeff np: _The Carl Stalling Project_ / Carl Stalling, compiled by the ever-popular Hal Willner (also ndslfc -- now drawing strange looks from coworkers because he keeps on bursting out laughing over the music) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 18:05:40 +0200 (MET DST) From: Yves Denneulin Subject: Re: irate customer Stuart Myerburg writes: > np: Celebrity Skin - Hole So, is it good? I am considering buying it tonight, I am in a "crunchy" music period. Best, - -- Yves Denneulin Campus Universitaire LMC/IMAG, Institut Fourier, BP 53X Yves.Denneulin@imag.fr 100 Rue des Mathematiques Tel: (33) 4 76 51 46 68 38041 GRENOBLE CEDEX 9 Fax: (33) 4 76 51 48 46/ 04 76 63 12 63 FRANCE n.p.: computer fans n.r.: Connie Wills _Bellwether_ excellent! It was in the SF category in the bookstore but I fail to see any SF elements in it. The main character is studying fads (Barbie dolls, smoking ban etc.) from a sociological point of view, it is both amusing and thought provoking. Are we *that* predictable? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 09:21:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Old Spice Subject: Re: irate customer - ---"jeffrey c. burka" wrote: > > Charley weighs in: > > > Hate CDNow. Lifelong boycotter, me. Rather slice > > my eyeballs vertically than buy from them again. > > er, other than the "support your local indie", why? Mostly because I really enjoy slicing my eyeballs. But beyond that, I've had more than one unpleasant episode with their crustomer-service dweebs, involving unexpected charges, misleading promises of availablity, and stealth backorders, none of which was resolved anywhere _near_ my satisfaction (I've worked retail management and corporate customer service, and no one at CDNow has any idea how to handle such things--a universal problem in the world of e-commerce [about which if have my own theories, 'fyou're innerested]). > > > Support your local independents! Surely there's a little Mom&Pop > > record store who can order stuff for you? > > I've got one or two discs on order via the internet right now, and bought > 3 from the dirty-floored shop down the street from home last night. Does > that make me evil or not? If you're evil, Jeffy, I doubt the above transgression had anything at all to do with it. But it probably does make you broke. > > n.r.: Mikhail Bulgakov: _The_Master_and_Margarita_ Oy, what a book. > > Yeah, that's why it's been mentioned in numerous NR's (or just come up in > literary threads) numerous times before. > > jeff > > np: _The Carl Stalling Project_ / Carl Stalling, compiled by the > ever-popular Hal Willner That is _so_ on my shopping list, but I haven't gotten around to getting it. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:10:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Jumper Subject: Re: in-your-face music Joyce wrote: It's interesting - you used the phrase "in your face." I think even that description is probably somewhat relative, depending on whose face you're talking about. :) It's relative to whatever else you listen to. Well, I was exaggerating :) to draw a distinction between music where the emotional content is subtle or veiled and music where the emotion is obvious and direct. In other words, maybe my scale, from subtle to hit-over-the-head, spans a different range from yours? Sounds likely... I don't go for raucous, raw metal or "head-banging" music, but I definitely have songs that are aggressive or that "wail" that I like a lot, particularly when I'm upset. My tastes tend to mellow, on average, as I get older, though (now there's a surprise :). There is no shortage of this second type of music within the Ecto spectrum, but I'd agree with Joyce that there's comparatively little of it, for me, in the center of the Ecto continuum. Could you recommend some of those artists? I'm always up for discovering new music. These threads on emotion in music have been some of the most interesting since I've been on Ecto, and I've found myself thinking a lot about which artists move me emotionally, and why, over the last couple of days. I realized I'm hard pressed to come up with artists whose work I find consistently "emotional" in the obvious sense; even nominating albums which "push my buttons" for their duration is difficult. Mostly, I have a collection of songs I turn to for certain moods (which is a pain when the CD player is not a changer... :). I've been known to buy an album just to have one sad song on it; after initial listens, that one song is the only thing I go back to. The songs are quite numerous, but include Kate's "The Man with the Child in His Eyes", "Under the Ivy", and "And Dream of Sheep"; some aggressive works from the Genesis catalog; Cyndi Lauper's "Time after Time"; Tara MacLean's "That's Me"; a number of cuts from the This Mortal Coil project; works by Beethoven and Debussy... Well, I could go on for some time. Some of the "mood albums" I can think of right now are Lisa Germano's _Geek the Girl_ (intense and creepy at times), Red House Painters' _Songs for a Blue Guitar_ (melancholy), Spain's _The Blue Moods of Spain_ (ditto), and Tindersticks' _Tindersticks_ (sad and, again, creepy). I know there are others I'm forgetting. However, it's no contest which artist I find most emotional: Peter Hammill. I hope no one else can inject such despair into a song (wouldn't want people jumping off buildings :). His voice can take on a raw, knocked-down-by-life, world-weary quality that I find mesmerizing. Some of his work with Van Der Graaf Generator has that aggressive in-your-face quality; much of his solo work has a more immediate and personal emotional content. His album _Over_, written either during or in the wake of his divorce, showcases both anger and sadness. In honor of this thread, I listened to _The Love Songs_ last night, which is a compilation of some of his, well, love songs. I find them often exquisitely sad, yet hopeful and meaningful as well. Greg np: Ingrid Karklins, _Red Hand_ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:19:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Stuart Myerburg Subject: Re: irate customer On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Yves Denneulin wrote: > > np: Celebrity Skin - Hole > So, is it good? I am considering buying it tonight, I am in a "crunchy" > music period. It's quite good. Instantly likeable. However, I still think I like _Live Through This_ better. I miss some of the rougher edges from that one. While all of the songs are excellent on _Celebrity Skin_, the whole thing is almost too polished. Stuart _________________________________________________________ Stuart Myerburg Information Services, Rollins School of Public Health http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~stuart _________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:25:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Stuart Myerburg Subject: Re: irate customer On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Old Spice wrote: > Support your local independents! Surely there's a little Mom&Pop > record store who can order stuff for you? If not, let me know, I'll > direct you to several--you know the type: dirty floors, peeling > pop-poster wallpaper, official cat on the counter, owner works there > alone every day but Saturday--that track down whatever obscure > indie/impoort I'm looking for and are happy to do mail order. I do that too. But sometimes I just feel like being lazy and conveniently purchasing a CD or two from the comfort of my home or at the office when I should be working. And, I figure I spend enough money at indie stores, even after shopping on-line, that they will never miss the $20-30 I send off to CDNow or Music Boulevard every once in a while. Stuart still playing: Celebrity Skin - Hole ________________________________________________________ Stuart Myerburg Information Services, Rollins School of Public Health http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~stuart _________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:34:47 -0500 (CDT) From: "Joseph S. Zitt" Subject: Re: irate customer On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Stuart Myerburg wrote: > I do that too. But sometimes I just feel like being lazy and conveniently > purchasing a CD or two from the comfort of my home or at the office when I > should be working. And, I figure I spend enough money at indie stores, > even after shopping on-line, that they will never miss the $20-30 I send > off to CDNow or Music Boulevard every once in a while. I don't think I've ever bought a CD from the big online dealers, though I do do a lot of my CD buying online directly from tiny labels and artists (can one get Ingrid's "Red Hand" in stores outside of maybe Austin?) and from local-level stores online. The Downtown Music Gallery in NYC, while they don't have a website, has a good mailing list with reviews and specials, and I get quite a bit from them online (and even more when I zoom through the shop on my trips into NYC). n.p. Various: Lesbian American Composers n.r. Douglas Coupland: Microserfs - - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:55:27 -0500 From: Eponine Subject: Re: irate customer Bonjour Yves, Sorry to butt in, but I can't resist: 'Celebrity Skin' is great!! Every bit as great as 'Live Through This'. Upon first listen, I wasn't sure. I mean, I knew I liked it, a lot, but to me 'Live Through This' is legendary, one of the most important rock releases of the 90s. That's a hard act to follow. I don't mean that 'Celebrity Skin' is also one of the most important releases of the 90s, but it's just really, really good. 'Celebrity Skin' is full of hook-laden pop songs, made "edgy" by Courtney's still really bad singing (!), yes, but also by her outrageously witty, brilliant lyrics. The guitars are a little janglier than on LTT, and they've got lots of layers of Courtney's harmony vocals, which IMHO makes for a really great "package" - a cohesive musical sound - that I, personally, really, really like. Of course not everyone will agree, right?! Oh well. But I don't mean to imply that the tiger has lost her fangs: SHE HAS NOT!! It's just the band is going in a *slightly* different direction, or perhaps more accurately, expanding on the direction they began to take on LTT. (And the last two songs, "Playing Your Song" and "Petals", rock as hard as anything on LTT.) I give the band (especially Courtney) a lot of credit for this recording, because everyone thought, "Oh, well Courtney's got something to prove. She's got to prove that she hasn't "gone Hollywood" and sold out, that she can still rock like a Riot Grrrl." So for her to have resisted that and taken this path instead I think took a lot of confidence (not that she's ever lacked confidence!). I salute her!! Go buy 'Celebrity Skin'!! Kind regards, Eponine P.S. I'm so happy to hear Hole come up in conversation on this list. Since I joined the list two weeks ago it seems everyone here is prepared to vote canonization for the interminably bland Sarah McLachlan. Iiiiicccchhhhh!! (OK - - please no hate mail. I plan to unsubscribe from this list.) Yves Denneulin wrote: > Stuart Myerburg writes: > > np: Celebrity Skin - Hole > So, is it good? I am considering buying it tonight, I am in a "crunchy" > music period. > > Best, > -- > Yves Denneulin Campus Universitaire > LMC/IMAG, Institut Fourier, BP 53X > Yves.Denneulin@imag.fr 100 Rue des Mathematiques > Tel: (33) 4 76 51 46 68 38041 GRENOBLE CEDEX 9 > Fax: (33) 4 76 51 48 46/ 04 76 63 12 63 FRANCE > > n.p.: computer fans > n.r.: Connie Wills _Bellwether_ excellent! It was in the SF category > in the bookstore but I fail to see any SF elements in it. The main > character is studying fads (Barbie dolls, smoking ban etc.) from a > sociological point of view, it is both amusing and thought provoking. > Are we *that* predictable? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:37:08 -0500 From: Chip Lueck Subject: Re: irate customer Charley sez: >anywhere _near_ my satisfaction (I've worked retail management and >corporate customer service, and no one at CDNow has any idea how to >handle such things--a universal problem in the world of e-commerce I, too, have had *horrible* "service" from CDNow. Last year, I placed a large order with them. Since I'm out of town more days than not, I emailed and asked that they send the packages via the US Post Office instead of UPS because my mailbox is in a locked secure environment, whereas UPS would either leave it at my front door, or make me go pick it up. To make a very long story short, I ended up driving 1/2 hour each way five different times (everything was backordered!) to the UPS office because they kept shipping via UPS even though I would keep asking them to send all remaining items via the USPS. After it was all over, I kept trying to contact customer service to get some satisfaction -- to give them a chance to right a wrong in their customer's eyes. I was really ready to give them the benefit of the doubt if they had only apologized and had given me some hope that I could count on them to get it right the next time. A coupon for a free CD would have been a good gesture, too. Unfortunately, they did nothing but pass the blame and give lame excuses and they lost a formerly active customer. That's my experience, fwiw. =========================================================== Jeff "Chip" Lueck http://www.acronet.net/~chip/ chip@acronet.net According to the latest official figures, 43% of all statistics are totally worthless. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 12:03:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Old Spice Subject: Re: irate customer - ---Chip Lueck wrote: > > I was really ready to give them the benefit of the doubt > if they had only apologized and had given me some hope that > I could count on them to get it right the next time. A > coupon for a free CD would have been a good gesture, too. > Unfortunately, they did nothing but pass the blame and give > lame excuses . . . That's the M.O. of e-commerce customer service. In any other commercial environment--retail, service, wholesale, whatever--if a customer expresses dissatisfaction, someone at the offending company will take responsibility for the problem and see that it gets fixed. That _never_ happens in e-commerce. I've had customer service issues with ISPs, with pay-for-access sites, with on-line retailers, and never once has anyone simply apologized and fixed the problem: they've only explained to my why ther _is_ no problem, or they simply ignore me. And contrary to the impression I give on Ecto, I'm not a crank: these have been legitimate, even mostly minor problems of the sort that one encounters in say, 1 out of every 10 business exchanges. The problem is, as I see it (here comes my theory), is that these companies tend to hire people with a wide disparity between their technological acuity and their business experience: most of the staff of most of these companies are young people who probably haven't worked outside the computer universe since they were kids at McDonalds. None of these companies have given me the impression that they've hired a customer service manager with a background in customer service; it's just one step on the way up from techno-grunt to big boss. Anyway, that's my theory. - -charley _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V4 #315 **************************