From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V4 #272 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Friday, August 14 1998 Volume 04 : Number 272 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: *Really* evil/anti Lilith/Sarah article up on the web... ["Neil K. Gu] EWS in Tx ["Bridges, Martin" ] Re: MWABT Hunting [Stuart Myerburg ] "Roy" single? ["Xenu's Sister" ] Lilith Fair in "Curve" magazine, too [Riphug@aol.com] Re: Lilith Fair in "Curve" magazine, too ["Xenu's Sister" ] Re: *Really* evil/anti Lilith/Sarah article up on the web... ["Xenu's Sis] Re: Lilith Fair in "Curve" magazine, too ["Joseph S. Zitt" ] Boston House Concert [Chris Snyder ] Re: Lilith Fair in "Curve" magazine, too [jason and jill Subject: Re: *Really* evil/anti Lilith/Sarah article up on the web... At 12:56 PM -0500 8/12/98, 00jnweiser@bsuvc.bsu.edu wrote: >Get prepared to get pissed at Judith Fitzgerald all over again. There's a rather sad self-righteous quality to that piece, I must say. And a tremendous amount of mean-spirited intolerance. It seems that the only way to address women's issues is *their* holy way and everyone else is, by definition, a traitor to the cause. They thus assume that the most malevolent intentions and motives are underlying everything. Typical assumption: last year's Lilith wasn't as diverse as it could have been because of deliberate conspiratorial policy. Doesn't it occur to some of these critics that many artists were invited but declined to participate? Or, for that matter, weren't able to. Another problem: the tiresome and nonsensical complaint that the Lilith bill is made up just of big star moneymaker headliners and not lesser-known artists. Presumably it's very easy to confuse Madonna, the Spice Girls and Janet Jackson with, say, 22 Brides, Lori Amey, Alexis Antes, Antigone Rising, India Arie, Erin Berginhouse, Neko Case, Clandestine, Cling, Thornetta Davis, Dead Girls And Other Stories, Drugstore, Arone Dyer, Erin Echo, Ali Eisner, Lin Elder, Nancy Falkow, Framing Amy, Frankly Scarlet, Ana Gasteyer, Laurie Geltman, Glassoline, Tami Grier, Half Mad Poet, Paris Hampton, Danielle Howle, Inhouse, Jepp, Audra Jost, Gordian Knot, Amanda Kravat, Julie Kryk, Stacy Lee, Litany, Felicia Loud, Rodie Ray, Lucie Gamelon, Cara Luft, Donna Martin, The Maryjanes, Idina Menzel, Trish Murphy, Maren Ord, Beth Lisick Ordeal, Kendall Payne, Alison Pipitone, Rose Polenzani, Robyn Ragland, Rodie Ray, Tammy RayBould, Amy Rigby, Joanelle Nadine Romero, Rebecca Scott, Sixpence None the Richer, Nina Storey, Swamperella, Talking to Animals, Tia Tejada, Eden White, Yvette and Adam... Yeah. Those are all huge big-name artists all right. Bloody sellout, I say. Sneering vindictiveness doesn't make the world a better place. Oh well. How it goes. - Neil K. - -- t e l a computer consulting + design * Vancouver, BC, Canada web: http://www.tela.bc.ca/tela/ * email: tela@tela.bc.ca speaking for myself; no-one else ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 10:59:15 +0100 From: "Bridges, Martin" Subject: EWS in Tx Hi folks, Well, not exactly EWS coz I was very restrained. Just got back from Dallas (stepped off the plane 4 hours ago so I'm still a little fuzzy, though not blue!). Only CD store I hit was Best Buy, as I didn't have a lot of time and I needed to do music, software and electronics in one place! So, purchases were: Happy Rhodes - MWABT. Took some tracking down. Filed under R, but in an unmarked slot. Just the one copy. Imogen Heap - I Megaphone. Heard plenty about it, and at 10 bucks how could I resist? Jewel - Poetry thing (the CD version, not the book). and the rest is non-ecto: latest Prince/The Artist/Squiggle thing strange George Clinton single I'm sure there was something else but my brain is failing. No CD-Rom here at work so will have to wait until tonight to hear em. Cheerio, Martin **************************************************************************** **** * Martin G Bridges - Consultant, Communications Division, Logica UK Ltd. * * Tel. +44 171 637 9111 http://www.logica.com email: bridgesm(at)logica.com * * All opinions expressed are mine, but may be shared. * **************************************************************************** **** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 09:11:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Stuart Myerburg Subject: Re: MWABT Hunting On Thu, 13 Aug 1998, C. K. Coney wrote: > Well, today I went Happy hunting in Atlanta. The Tower at Lenox had *no* placecard > for her, but the gal stocking shelves recognized her name & led me right to the one > Many Worlds cd there. I said "Is that all you have?" and she looked below, and said > "we had three, but two must already have been sold". Yay! (Hey, Stuart, did you buy > two of 'em?) I did, but not both at Tower. I ordered one from CDNow and bought the other at Tower. So, we know there is at least one other Happy fan out there in Atlanta, apart from the 2 or 3 I've converted that I know didn't buy a copy at Tower. > Borders on Peachtree had to look it up on computer...there were three store workers > who went blank when I mentioned the cd. It was on their computer, and a fellow went > back to find it in the back room, and didn't find it. Another fellow showed up & > overheard, said "we have that in back" & he produced one. Rather than buy it, I put > it out in the Happy Rhodes section, where "Warpaint" was. The section was messy with > other stuff in there, so I helped them out and cleaned it up a bit, giving Happy a > bit more prominence. :-) I'm glad you did. I was in too much of a find-this-CD-now frenzy on Tuesday to bother, but I noticed Happy's section at Borders was a mess and it bugged me. Stuart np: Essential: R.E.M. in the Attic - R.E.M. _________________________________________________________ Stuart Myerburg Information Services, Rollins School of Public Health http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~stuart _________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 09:09:08 -0500 From: "Xenu's Sister" Subject: "Roy" single? Hoy, I need information about the promo "Roy" single too. What's on it? Thanks in advance. Vickie DIVX = GREED - Boycott Circuit City! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 10:15:15 EDT From: Riphug@aol.com Subject: Lilith Fair in "Curve" magazine, too The September issue of "Curve" is a special "music issue" and has a few things to say about Lilith Fair. However, they seem to be a bit more objective than the previously-discussed issue of "Girlfriends." <<"You know that's why you picked me." -- Me'Shell Ndege Ocello to Sarah McLachlan after a reporter asked McLachlan about the inclusiveness of lesbian and bisexual women in the Lilith Fair lineup.>> (I have a feeling that this was said in a humorous tone.) The opening editorial says this: <> On page 23, there's a brief profile of Vancouver's Veda Hille, who performed at this year's Michigan Womyn's Music Festival. Good review of her stuff! Page 24 includes a two-column article about Catie Curtis. And although I didn't buy it, the next issue of Girlfriends (after the Lilith- bashing one) had several letters to the editor -- from both sides of the fence. Jill :D *share the music!* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 09:47:49 -0500 From: "Xenu's Sister" Subject: Re: Lilith Fair in "Curve" magazine, too At 10:15 AM 8/14/98 EDT, Riphug@aol.com wrote: >The September issue of "Curve" is a special "music issue" and has a few things >to say about Lilith Fair. However, they seem to be a bit more objective than >the previously-discussed issue of "Girlfriends." ... >Hats off to Sarah McLachlan for bringing our music into the mainstream. But >women's music didn't start with Lilith. The revolution ignited more than 20 >years ago, with Olivia Records, the Michigan Womyn's Music Festival and >pioneers like Cris Williamson, Tret Fure and Holly Near...>> Lordy, women's music *didn't* start with Lilith. It also didn't start with the things listed above. Women's music started with Hildegard of Bingen, who was the first woman to have her music published, back in 11something. "Pioneers" my butt. Go back to Ma Rainey, now she was a pioneer dyke. Vickie (who's liking Lilith more and more) DIVX = GREED - Boycott Circuit City! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 10:00:46 -0500 (CDT) From: Kim Justice Subject: Re: Lilith Fair in "Curve" magazine, too On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Xenu's Sister wrote: > Lordy, women's music *didn't* start with Lilith. It also didn't start with > the things listed above. Women's music started with Hildegard of Bingen, > who was the first woman to have her music published, back in 11something. Heck, women's music probably started with lullabyes and harvesting songs a few hundreds of thousands of years ago. kj's gonna buy you a mockingbird - -- justicek@edge.net (Kim Justice) http://edge.edge.net/~justicek What's me what? -- Bubble ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 10:14:23 -0500 From: "Xenu's Sister" Subject: Re: *Really* evil/anti Lilith/Sarah article up on the web... At 04:50 PM 8/13/98 -0700, J." Wermont wrote: >Carol wrote: > > >> I'm no fan of Lilith Fair, but this article is over the top. My > >> biggest gripe is that people promoting these "womyn's" (spit) > > > > Er, what is the "spit" about? > >I was wondering about that myself... Because I hatehatehate that alternate spelling. It's unpronounceable and just draws attention to the separatism. It's stupid, IMHO. I understand all the political reasons behind the changed spelling, and actually agree with most of them, but it's silly to change the spelling of an existing word that everybody *knows* ends with "man" originally. Why not come up with a whole new word or change a different existing word. Do they change the spelling of "female" to "femayl"? Give me a break! I consider myself a feminist, but it's things like this that make people snort at feminism. > > Why do you say Lilith Fair is boring? Just curious. >I think it's idiotic to state that a festival is evil or shouldn't >exist, merely on the basis of "it's boring." (That was one of the >Girlfriends arguments against it.) I do think it's boring as a whole, though I like a lot of the individual performers. A lot of that has to do with my taste in music and I would *never* say it shouldn't exist. I just want to make sure that what I said isn't being lumped with what *they* said in the article. I'm certainly more on Lilith's side than the Girlfriend people. I'm pretty hostile to the Girlfriend mindset and protective of Lilith. >So I have to ask again - why does this festival have to be diverse? ... >She took a risk with this festival. It was her idea, she did the work >to make it happen, and she put her name on it - why shouldn't she get >to pick the artists? Count me in as a big "me too"! I agree completely. Few artists that I *really* wanted to see played Lilith, and the ticket prices were too high and the venues too hard to get to, to see the artists I did want to see (Lisa Gerrard, or Victoria Williams, for instance). But I think the basic idea of Lilith Fair is a good one. It doesn't *have* to be anything more than what it is, and Sarah should do what she wants. If *I* started a women's festival thing (as I would have, had I listened to Charley back in the early '90's) I'd sure as hell invite the artists I liked and wanted to see play. And if it got in any way popular, I can just imagine the bitching that would go on. Vickie (sorry for not answering Carol, Carolyn, Joyce, jessica & Ellen individually. I'm interested in what everyone has to say though. You all are very articulate about things whereas I tend to just knee-jerk react.) DIVX = GREED - Boycott Circuit City! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 10:29:24 -0500 (CDT) From: "Joseph S. Zitt" Subject: Re: Lilith Fair in "Curve" magazine, too On Fri, 14 Aug 1998, Xenu's Sister wrote: > Lordy, women's music *didn't* start with Lilith. It also didn't start with > the things listed above. Women's music started with Hildegard of Bingen, > who was the first woman to have her music published, back in 11something. Hildegard was a latecomer. Although the music didn't survived, the lyrics, at least, of Miriam's song at the Red Sea are in the book of Exodus. - - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 10:59:16 -0500 From: "Xenu's Sister" Subject: Re: Lilith Fair in "Curve" magazine, too Xenu's Sister wrote: >> Lordy, women's music *didn't* start with Lilith. It also didn't start with >> the things listed above. Women's music started with Hildegard of Bingen, >> who was the first woman to have her music published, back in 11something. Kim writes: >Heck, women's music probably started with lullabyes and harvesting songs a >few hundreds of thousands of years ago. >kj's gonna buy you a mockingbird and Joe writes: >Hildegard was a latecomer. Although the music didn't survive, the lyrics, >at least, of Miriam's song at the Red Sea are in the book of Exodus. It just goes to show you, there's no use in anyone trying to claim ownership of women's music or fighting about who started what when. Women's music has been around since the first woman (Lilith, so some believe) opened her mouth and sang a little ditty. Vickie np: Happy Rhodes: Many Worlds Are Born Tonight (what else?) DIVX = GREED - Boycott Circuit City! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 12:51:41 -0700 (PDT) From: "J." Wermont Subject: Re: Lilith Fair in "Curve" magazine, I think there's some confusion, due to the use of a euphemism which was unfortunately necessary at the time, but now tends to cloud the issue. And that is that venues like Michigan, and also Olivia Records, were really promoting *lesbian* music (by and large). But since this all started in the 1970's, it wasn't OK to talk so openly about lesbianism, and if they wanted their records to have a bin in places like Tower, they had to call it something less threatening, like "Women's Music." Also, lots of the women's music festivals had to rent space at places like boy scout or girl scout camps or public parks, and they couldn't afford to be too in- your-face about what the festivals were really about, so again, they called them *women's* festivals. But for the most part, it's lesbians who attend them. So, to address the comments about how women's music has been around since there've been women - yes, that's true, but I think the term "women's music" as we're using it here (to talk about the Michigan festival, Olivia, etc), was justg a euphemism, at least in the 70's, for lesbian music. And those folks really did start that movement, so they can rightfully claim it. But with Lilith, that's not the case. "Women" really means *women* (OK, straight women in the public eye, but what I mean is, it's not a euphemism). What they've really started is not, of course, the existence of women's music itself, but rather the *visibility* of women in the music scene - on the radio, on stage, in the news media, in the commercial world - and in large numbers. There's still a real glass ceiling for women in commercial music, and they have broken that barrier. Joyce ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 16:04:03 -0500 From: Chris Snyder Subject: Boston House Concert Hello everyone I hope your day is going well. I am pleased to invite you to two special concerts taking place the weekend of August 22nd, and 23rd. They are special because of the artists and the enviroment in which they are presented. On August 22nd at 7pm we are pleased to present an evening show with Trina Hamlin, and Mica Richards. On August 23rd at 3pm the show will again feature Trina Hamlin this time teaming with Jess Klein. Admission for each show is $10 which goes straight to the performer. We are located at 39 Longfellow St. in Boston. If you want to make reservation we can be reached at this e-mail address or at (617) 288-4381. These two concerts are part of a homegrown concert series called Longfellow St. Concerts. Longfellow St. Concerts is a series of shows held in my family's house or in our backyard. Our goal is to present some of the best acoustic musicians in the business, in an intimate, comfortable enviroment. This type of show has long been the standard through the middle of the country where folk clubs are few and far between. For years artists like Greg Brown, Christine Lavin, and others have opted to play shows in peoples homes rather than risk playing a show in a local bar. Because we live in one of the richest music enviroments in the country we have been denied the privelege of seeing artists in such a small, intimate setting. Because of seeing how special some of these shows are, we decided to bring some of this special brand of live music to the city. Our concerts have an audience of 20-30 people making each show a special evening for audience and artist alike. It is very hard to describe how special these shows are. The only way to know what they are like is for you to come one. Once you have seen the joy in the artists faces you will never want to miss a show. Trina Hamlin has been playing coffeehouses, and clubs around the New York scene for the past four years. She has become a fixture at such New York clubs as CBGB's and The Living Room. Trina just played two amazing sets at the 1998 Newport Folk Festival. She opened Sunday with a set on the main stage and was followed by such artists as Ani Difranco, Dar Williams, and The Indigo Girls. Trying to describe what Trina Hamlin is like in concert is like trying to describe Monet to someone who has never been able to see. There are things that Trina does with a harmonica that I have never heard since. She is a ball of firey energy from the get go, that picks you up and takes you on a musical journey through blues, folk, rock, and roots music. There is an energy watching Trina like few other artists I have ever seen. She is a performer that needs to be seen live to truly be appreciated. Mica Richards is one of the few piano playing folk singers on the Boston folk scene. She mixes the best of folk, blues, and jazz. She has been playing in and around Boston for the past few yesr at such clubs as Passim, The Kendall Cafe, and many others. She has an amazing ability of making someone feel that each time they listen to a song it is the first time they've heard it. Mica is an amazing performer drawing comparisons to Jerry Lee Lewis and Billy Holiday. Her first cd titled "Properties Of Motion" is a wonderful sampling of ballads, jazz vocals, and driving piano rhythms. Some of the songs on Properties can be heard at http://www.folkweb.com/micarichards/ This past June she recorded 3 shows to be released on her next cd. She is a one of a kind artist that is soon to be a major star. "Wonderful...Go, go, go!" -- Dar Williams "When I heard her I thought Oh *@!"...She's really great." -- Carol Noonan "She's the one with that voice" -- Club Passim, Cambridge, MA Jess Klein is one of the rising stars on the Boston music scene. Her style could be described as words in the style of Joni Mitchell, a singing style that can mirror Patty Griffin, a voice that matches Rosalie Sorrels, and a personality reminiscent of Tracy Chapman. Jess just released her first CD titled "Wishes Well Disguised." Portions of the cd can be heard at http://www.folkweb.com/jessklein/ Jess has been nominated for numerous Boston area awards and is on the brink of a career that is about to take off. She has opened for the likes of Dar Williams, Carol Noonan Band, Martin Sexton, Disappear Fear, Diane Ziegler, Jabbering Trout, Cosy Sheridan, The Nields, Jim's Big Ego, Kevin So, and Moxy Fruvous. So If these artists, and the uopcoming concerts sound of intrest here are the details once again. Start Time: August 22nd 7pm, August 23rd 3pm. Location: 39 Longfellow St. Boston, MA Performers: Trina Hamlin, and Mica Richards on the 22nd Trina Hamlin, and Jess Klein on the 23rd. Admission: 10 dollars To make reservations, and for directions: e-mail gegertha@tiac.net or call 617-288-4381 If you have any other questions about the show please feel free to e-mail me. I will be out of town visiting relatives for the next couple days but will be checking e-mail and voice mail. I hope all is well with everyone reading this. Take care Chris Snyder ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 16:20:26 -0400 (EDT) From: jason and jill Subject: Re: Lilith Fair in "Curve" magazine, too > > Hildegard was a latecomer. Although the music didn't survived, the lyrics, > at least, of Miriam's song at the Red Sea are in the book of Exodus. > Ah, didn't you know? All of Miriam's lyrics were written by her producer? Jason ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 13:52:44 -0700 (PDT) From: charley darbo Subject: Re: *Really* evil/anti Lilith/Sarah article up on the web... - ---"Neil K. Guy" wrote: > > At 12:56 PM -0500 8/12/98, 00jnweiser@bsuvc.bsu.edu wrote: > >Get prepared to get pissed at Judith Fitzgerald all over again. > > > Another problem: the tiresome and nonsensical complaint that the Lilith > bill is made up just of big star moneymaker headliners and not lesser-known > artists. Presumably it's very easy to confuse Madonna, the Spice Girls and > Janet Jackson with, say, 22 Brides, Lori Amey, Alexis Antes, Antigone > Rising, India Arie, Erin Berginhouse, Neko Case, Clandestine, Cling, > Thornetta Davis, Dead Girls And Other Stories, Drugstore, Arone Dyer, Erin > Echo, Ali Eisner, Lin Elder, Nancy Falkow, Framing Amy, Frankly Scarlet, > Ana Gasteyer, Laurie Geltman, Glassoline, Tami Grier, Half Mad Poet, Paris > Hampton, Danielle Howle, Inhouse, Jepp, Audra Jost, Gordian Knot, Amanda > Kravat, Julie Kryk, Stacy Lee, Litany, Felicia Loud, Rodie Ray, Lucie > Gamelon, Cara Luft, Donna Martin, The Maryjanes, Idina Menzel, Trish > Murphy, Maren Ord, Beth Lisick Ordeal, Kendall Payne, Alison Pipitone, Rose > Polenzani, Robyn Ragland, Rodie Ray, Tammy RayBould, Amy Rigby, Joanelle > Nadine Romero, Rebecca Scott, Sixpence None the Richer, Nina Storey, > Swamperella, Talking to Animals, Tia Tejada, Eden White, Yvette and Adam... Great list, Neil. Where'd you get it? Certainly not from any of the LF stops within a day's drive of Chicago. I didn't track down the lineups of every single stop, but I did look to see if any of the accessible stops were worth travelling to. I stayed home. - --charley _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 16:53:18 +0000 From: Silme@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: *Really* evil/anti Lilith/Sarah article up on the web... charley darbo wrote: > > Great list, Neil. Where'd you get it? Certainly not from any of the LF > stops within a day's drive of Chicago. I didn't track down the lineups > of every single stop, but I did look to see if any of the accessible > stops were worth travelling to. I stayed home. Some of them were the local winners. Nancy Falkow won the Philly contest. Nina Storey, an excellent Denver area artist, will grace the village stage in Denver. Where is Lin Elder playing? I've seen her perform with Jann Arden. Nancy Falkow was thrilled to be there. She also got to sing (backup) on the main stage, and she was beaming when I later saw her walking through the "village." (No, I don't know her -- just recognized her. There was an article in the Philly City Paper about her experience. You might still find it on-line: http://www.citypaper.net ) My biggest complaint about the Camden, NJ, Lilith was having to pay $3.50 for a SMALL bottle of water. My own water bottle (well, ice bottle, actually -- the water bottle had spent some hours in the freezer) was confiscated at the gate. The guy at the gate told me that the point was for me for buy water inside. I could find nary a water fountain. The only free water I could find was in the bathroom, and I didn't know if it was potable or not. (After you live in the mountains of Colorado, you learn to wonder about that. The water in the bathrooms in Colorado is NOT potable, for example. However, Red Rocks permits water bottles. Food is also allowed there. I'm spoiled by Red Rocks and Planet Bluegrass' Rocky Mountain Folks Fest -- I can bring in my "ice" bottles and my dinner.) I am going to venture with friends to the Lilith in Denver next Sunday. At least we can bring in empty plastic bottles and fill them with water inside Fiddler's Green, thus saving me some money and some anger. (Denying someone free water in that heat we had in Camden seemed almost unconstitutional. I do not like the E-Centre.) Ellen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 17:02:22 +0000 From: Silme@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: *Really* evil/anti Lilith/Sarah article up on the web... Forgive the waste of band width, but I must correct my typo. The water in the bathrooms at RED ROCKS is not potable. The water at sinks in other bathrooms in Colorado may be. (I know the water in my bathroom is drinkable. :) Ellen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 16:09:35 -0700 From: Birdie Subject: Re: *Really* evil/anti Lilith/Sarah article up on the web... 00jnweiser@bsuvc.bsu.edu wrote: > > I asked, regarding the Lilith article: > > >> You do? Wow, can I ask why? > > And Charley responded: > > > 1) LF is not about promoting female artists as much as it is about > >selling tickets: almost all the women invited to perform are safe bets > >from a promoter's point of view. In other words, they are women who > >have been little, if at all, affected by the anti-woman bias of > >mainstream radio and record sales; women who have a right, of course, > >to sympathize with overlooked female artists, but less right, in my > >opinion, to capitalize on that unfortunate fact. > > Heh, I don't think that's very true. As Jason said, none of > the women on that tour (with the exception of Sarah, Paula > Cole, IG, and anyone else that got a bit of radio play), were > safe bets until it all took off last year and they realized > how successful everyone was. Who wasn't sure they were safe bets? Corporate sponsors? Who are the corporate sponsors for Lilith Fair ? If Levi's is one of them - that name brand alone is more famous and better known than any of the acts. If lesbian music festivals sell out - I don't see who in their right mind would think a tour of currently trendy getting famous with corporate label support - packaged by agents tour of women artists would be a risk! The risk would be if the tour organisers had never done a tour before and didn't have a proper business framework set-up. In otherwords - if not managed properly - anything can lose money. > For example, there's a 17 year old artist on the tour this > year, Maren Ord, who is being scouted by labels and management, > but has yet to be signed. This is, in my opinion, a chance > that they're taking, and I think that people will see this person > perform and be encouraged by the fact that a 17 year old writes > and performs her own material, yet there's still a risk putting > her on the tour... Excuse me, but Laura Nyro wrote some of her biggest hits before she was 16 years old..."And When I Die" is one of them. Who was the young woman (13 - 14 years old) that just walked off with more grammys than any other woman in a long time? Mozart and a great many after him were all musical genius' as children.....How many children are presently taking violin and piano lessons and playing quite well? And those Hanson Boys.....they've already earned more than most adults will in their entire lifetime. ***Please explain why you think Maren Ord and local artists are a risk.**** > > 2) Most of the artists invited are the kind of performers who (and > >this is related to #1) reinforce the stereotype of female artists as > >toothless, sentimental, non-feminist serenaders of the status quo: > >pretty makers of pretty music. I agree with this 100% because this is exactly what has been portrayed in the media....whether they were naive and didn't realise this is how they were going to come off once squeezed through the likes of People magazine and your basic mainstream media or is how they wanted themselves portrayed - I don't know, but there is truth in all of this..... > I think that's kind of putting all of the performers into one > category, though. Yes, this is how the media works. If you don't like it - than you need to be upfront about presenting things differently and concert promotion is all about...presenting. the media has portayed what they were presented. I was not impressed by the press - but ah....they are young and it was their first go around...so...live and learn. > Have you heard of Kinnie Starr? Indigo Girls? > Holly McNarland? Meredith Brooks (shudder)? I mean, I'm not > going to comment on their physical appearance, cause that makes > no difference to me, but their music isn't *all* pretty.... and > there's some louder artists on the bill this year... and Missy > Elliot? How much press have they been getting? I think the toplining artists get all the press.....and are therefore the ones representing Lilith Fair to the general public and benefitting the most. >>Most of the artists in the LF tour are, in my > >opinion, more comfortably lumped in with Celine Dion and Mariah Cary > >(sp?) than with the real female pioneers of the musical arts: Patti > > I don't think that's true at all. I do. Moreover, chances are that the most famous artists may not be the most talented or best or most interesting or the most worthy of your time or personal taste. This also means that a 17 year old like Maren Ord *could* in fact be more talented than Paula Cole or more to someones taste. I know that there are women far far more talented and interesting and worthy of attention OFF the Lilith Fair line-up than on it. Patti Smith, Kate Bush, Alison Moyet, Joni Mitchell, Ronee Blakley, Judy Collins, The late great Malvina Reynolds, Dusty Springfield, Aretha-Aretha-Aretha, Patti LaBelle, Marcella Detroit, Sousie, Annie Lennox, Garbage, k.d Lang, Gloria Estfan and really...the list goes on and on. Where is Wendy & Lisa? I'd wait to see the IG at Michigan or the Suffragette sessions. I'd rather see any or all of the above than the white-middle class status quo artists on the Lilith Fair line-up. I'd rather stay home and listen to Carmen Miranda. Which in fact, I did do. The 40's musically - as far as women go - was brilliant. >There's a fairly big difference, > in my opinion, between the artists on Lilith (I'm willing to bet > 99% of whom) who write their *own* music and words, many produce > their own stuff, etc. Mariah and Celine seem very much to me to > be products of a corporation Nettwerk isn't a corporation? Lilith Fair doesn't have corporate sponsors? Lilith Fair is the product of a very ambitious artist who wanted to be a huge star and out of insecurites they wouldn't be as big as they wanted to be - on their own - they put together this show, which has in fact made said artist a bigger star - using corporations to do so. No no wait. She wasn't that big before she did this and yes, all the attention from it has helped her and her agents and her managers and her record company sell bushels more CDs than they ever would have..... That was *the* point. To be as successful as possible. Lilith Fair is a packaged event with corporate backing. She used other artists and the press to help her. Nothing wrong with getting yourself some support! It could also be supporting more men than women financially. Well, if one woman is singing and her whole band is male... and what about the crew and all the companies that furnish equipment and places to play and transportation...... Somebody should go count the beans and report how many men vs women were employed and/or male owned businesses used vs female.... I don't think it should be billed as a "womens" anything. Not fair to all the men - and as men are very much involved from the top on down, and most of the women are straight and are into men, it really isn't an accurate description. More accurate would be "The women supported by and supporting men tour." Of course, it appears that they are into bondage with the men involved as they seemed to have them all gagged. the poor guys. As a lesbian, I want to hear what the men of LF have to say! >, and I'd be willing to bet they don't > care a whole, whole lot about their music and causes... I don't > know. No, you don't know...you are simply trolling using well known names like Mariah and Celine. Both of them do charity work and are very well respected for it. Nobody does their singing but themselves. Complain about Paula Abdul or Milli Vanilli or Spice Girls or NKOTB if you want to dis corporate creations......the acts like Maren Ord could become the next corporate creation....for "the trend". Trends sell. record companies depend on them. > Um, Patti Smith *did* play at Lilith, it was either this year > or last, but I'm fairly certain that she did. > > Also, some "pioneers" that performed this and / or last year are > Emmylou Harris, whoever it is that sings "Love is a Battlefield" > (I can't remember her name right now and it's driving me crazy :), Pat Benatar > and didn't Joan Baez play a show? hmm.I can't remember, oh well. > Another pioneer is rumored to be appearing at an upcoming show, > but who knows if that will happen... Gee, maybe.....Holly Near? > L7 and PJ Harvey were asked to be there, so was Ani, so were > about 350 other solo or female bands, all of which said no > repeatedly for one reason or another. Yes, that speaks of many many rejections. This is sarah's show - maybe if it didn't have one artist using it for their own personal gain far beyond the others involved, she would have gotten more takers. It doesn't take a genius to figure that one out. > >And even the more mainstream, but more intelligent and challenging > >artists are sadly underrepresented in LF: Where's Kirsty MacColl? Jane > >Siberry? Anna Domino? etc.etc.etc. > > Hmm. I wonder--none of them, with the exception of *maybe* Jane > Siberry-- really put out new music anymore--why would anyone *want* > to seem them? Because they are intelligent, challenging, talented and loved by their audiences perhaps? I think what you said is "why would anyone want to see someone who isn't currently trendie?" The LF is top heavy with the currently trendy. That's what it is all about and for the wanna-be next trendies. The IG are their own trend like the Grateful Dead were their own trend...They'll be around like Patti Smith, Kate Bush, Alison Moyet, Annie Lennox, et al. I'm not so sure about some of the top-lining acts at LF. I'm already completely overdosed on Sarah and Paula Cole just from radio and TV exposure. They have reached their expiration date...much like Hootie and The Blowfish did.....they seriously cashed in...which checks people out. > > So, in other words, to oversimplify and summarize (I gotta catch a > >train), the people profiting from LF, either financially or > >exposure-wise, are doing so by hypocritically exploiting the plight of > >the artists they are _not_ including in their event. Right and I think more men are gaining from this per capita than women - financially - payroll and accounts payable wise...... > The people from LF *did not* profit last year, and may not even > see a profit for another year. Really. Well, that is a business management issue unless the shows are not selling out. The real money is made in the record bins caused by the PR the event generates which shows up in a set of books completely different than the books for the tour. Also in other merchandising. Sarah, I am sure made ***loads*** more $$ off her CD's because of LF. Meanwhile, I'll be delighted if the Suffragette Sessions comes to the West Coast as that gives the impression of a variety of very talented artists going out to play music rather than being currently trendy artists with corporate sponsors going out to get a lot of press to sell more CDs and make bigger names for themselves and and throw in some good causes and make a statement they are not ball busting women or lesbians. Which can be said for LF. Currently trendy and whoever gets the most attention matters to record companies, sponsors, and the general mainstream press and public. The best and most incredible and the hippest thing to do however would be......to see Jane Siberry with 30 other people in Portland, Oregon for a weekend event at someones house................................. Or Cindy Lee Berryhill on her LR tour.... Or Marcella Detroit who played with Eric Clapton and co-wrote "Lay Down Sally", "Chinese Wall" and "The Core" with him and went on and formed Shakespears Sister (#1 hit for 8 weeks with the song "Stay") and who has has 2 solo CD's play......in a very intimate and casual setting like Little Frida's coffeehouse ( she is straight and Little Frida's is a lesbian coffeehouse)..... Amazing talent upfront and in your face. And hey! Whatever happened to playing music and jamming to work on the art and craft of playing music and having a fabulous time while doing it? And being close to your audience..... and straight artists DO have entire careers forged by having a gay following.....and engage in a wonderful repartee with them - could be a straight woman artist with lesbian and/or gay male fans.... Sarah I *don't* think quite does...and I don't think she cares if she does and cares perhaps more that she doesn't. Could someone list an *out* gay artist who had their career made by having a primarily straight following? This is a test. The whole Living Room Tour scene and massively talented artists playing in wee small cafes and clubs is without question the most exciting and refreshing music scene going on...... Those are about just going out to play and connect with the audience. No agents, managers, corporations, record labels involved. Just the artist-music-audience. Which is what the big shows should be about as well. The men behind LF should come out and do a press conference about their experience with it. Now, that would be interesting. As a lesbian, I am more interested in the guys in LF than I am with the girls. Which just goes to show how maybe the show is homophobic and sexist....and its portrayal and its presentation has not been very honest or.....fair. LF is more about creating and exploiting a commerical trend than anything. I'd prefer a more honest approach. Birdie ( who has produced women artists from the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's - some lesbian - some not - some with all women bands and some with men -) ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V4 #272 **************************