From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V4 #201 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Thursday, June 25 1998 Volume 04 : Number 201 Today's Subjects: ----------------- To John, Ariana, Philip David, anyone else... ["Xenu's Sister" ] Today's your birthday, friends... [Mike Matthews ] Glastonbury Festival [The Lamplighter (Apusskidu) ] Tori on BBC radio [Neile Graham ] Re: Imogen Heap, Ecto-synchronicity [Ofer Inbar ] Ecto's badly needed altitude adjustment [charley darbo ] Re: Ecto's lowest point [Neal Copperman ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:06:00 -0500 From: "Xenu's Sister" Subject: To John, Ariana, Philip David, anyone else... This may not help at all, but I really need to explain something. You see, John wrote what he wrote in complete innocence, having no idea whatsoever how what he wrote would affect me. Charley, however, knows me too well, and in his horror at what he was reading, he reacted wildly, striking out at John on my behalf. If Charley and I had had a chance to talk before he posted, I might have been able to calm him down. When John wrote: j> However, there is no indication that this relationship j> is non consensual (which I regard as sort of a j> requirement for a relationship to be called abusive) Charley knew that this would be a "trigger" for me and I'm sure he was afraid that it would send me into a deep pit of depression. I have never been subjected to father/daughter incest as in the film _The Sweet Hereafter_, but I have quite a sordid history of sexual abuse and rape in my childhood and adolescence. The above sets off alarms because for a few years I was involved in a "normal" (to *me at the time*) "romantic" "consensual" sexual relationship that I didn't realize was abusive until decades after the fact. I didn't know any better, I didn't know much about the world, I was innocent and naive. This happened between the ages of 2 and 6. I was "taught" by my "lover" that it was what *I* wanted, that it was good for me, that it meant that I was deeply loved and that it was the only way I'd ever be loved. It messed my mind and my life up in countess ways that I wouldn't even begin to realize until I was in my 30s. Charley cares about me. We've been friends for 8 years. He knows all about my past and he's seen me rant, rave, cry, dissolve into fits of blackness so stifling that I wouldn't want to go anywhere or speak to anyone for weeks at a time. He's always been there for me, even after the time I struck him in rage at some innocent something he said. Anyone else would have "fuck you, I don't need this" but he understood that it was a fluke, that it had never happened before and would never happen again and that it honestly didn't have anything to do with him, but came from a dark place in me that I'd tried so hard to hide. Charley is a truly good person. His striking out verbally at John was much like my striking out physically at him. Only Charley had a reason. I had no reasons or excuses. My writing this is to tell people Charley's reason. I'm sorry for John, but I'd be even sorrier if people pass a judgement on Charley that he doesn't deserve, for a lapse in civility that was only due to his desire to protect me. Vickie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 02:14:50 -0400 From: Steve I Subject: Arrogant Worms Damon piped in, re: the Arrogant Worms >the worms! speaking of them, has anyone heard their latest albums? i know >they had a christmas album out, and i think they had another one too >(post-_c'est cheese_). sad, really - i was living in kingston (their >hometown) all year and couldn't find the albums (not that i looked *too* >hard - conserving money - but *still*). Woohoo! Let's keep this thread going on as long as possible! :-) Anyway, I didn't know you were living in Kingston, Damon... how is it? I miss it... pretty shocking that you couldn't find their albums there though. Of course I bought all mine (everything up to cheese) direct from the group so I never looked in the stores... And yeah the other postcheese album was a live one, I forget what it was called. I was too poor to get it but one of my friends did and loves it! Sherlyn typed: >> Paul K wrote: >> >>Speaking of Moxy Fruvous... if ectofolk like them, they >Actually, *I* wrote that. :) oooh I really must be more careful with my quoting. It gets confusing after a few quote generations. My apologies, Sherlyn! Steve ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 03:00:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Mike Matthews Subject: Today's your birthday, friends... i*i*i*i*i*i i*i*i*i*i*i *************** *****HAPPY********* **************BIRTHDAY********* *************************************************** *************************************************************************** ********************* Dave Torok (torok@nynexst.com) ********************** ************** Ethan Straffin (straffin@xenon.stanford.edu) *************** *************************************************************************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Dave Torok Mon June 24 1968 Cancer Ethan Straffin Thu June 24 1971 Cancer Kevin Dekan Mon June 27 1960 Cancer BunkyTom Tue July 02 1968 Cancer Anders Hallberg Tue July 03 1962 Cancer Kevin Harkins Thu July 05 1973 Cancer Laurel Krahn Mon July 05 1971 Cancer John J Henshon Mon July 05 1954 The Year Of The Horse / Ruled By The Moon Jim Gurley Mon July 06 1959 Cancer Lisa Wilson Fri July 08 1960 Moonchild with Java Rising Courtney Dallas Fri July 09 1971 Catte Michael Peskura Sat July 09 1949 HallOfFamer Finney T. Tsai Sat July 09 1966 Cancer Larry Greenfield Tue July 11 1950 Virgo Rising; Gemini Moon Marion Kippers Tue July 13 1965 Kreeft Ellen Rawson Thu July 13 1961 Double Cancer Mitch Pravatiner Mon July 14 1952 Cancer Rich R. Wed July 14 1954 Cancer John Zimmer Sun July 16 1961 Cancer Dan Stark Sun July 16 1961 Cancer Cathy Guetzlaff Mon July 18 1955 Cancer Vlad Sat July 18 1970 Warning: severe tire damage Jani Pinola Thu July 20 1972 Jonquil - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 08:26:26 +0000 (GMT) From: The Lamplighter (Apusskidu) Subject: Glastonbury Festival And it looks like the weather's going be good for Glasters! :) Not that last year's mud stopped anyone from enjoying themselves. So, anyone else from around here going? I'll be leaving tomorrow morning (Thursday) to make a nice mid-afternoon arrival. Bounce bounce! Garrick. - -- "We strangers know each other now as part of the whole design"-Suzanne Vega garrick@area51.upsu.plym.ac.uk http://area51.upsu.plym.ac.uk/~garrick/ lamplite@prot.upsu.plym.ac.uk finger/mail for pgp key... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 06:51:01 -0700 (PDT) From: charley darbo Subject: The Orginal Harmony Ridge Creek Dippers in Chicago last night So anyway. Chris and Vickie and I went to see The Orginal Harmony Ridge Creek Dippers last night at Schuba's. (Aside to Schuba's-going Chicagophiles: they have a new policy, which I will protest loudly, wherein they bring to the front of the line people who've bought tickets via their web site.) We didn't manage to snag a playlist after the show--not that that's relevant when Victoria's on the stage--so I can't list every song they played, but every song they played was wonderful. It was one of the best Victoria concerts I've seen, despite (or perhaps because of) the fact that she made a real effort to deflect the spotlight from herself and keep it on the ensemble--especially on her husband Marc, whose project the Dippers putatively is. (Maps to that sentence will be sold at intermission.) Mark tried to get Vic to stick to a playlist that largely alternated between his stuff and hers, while she kept goading the band to play Mark's songs. They continually deferred to each other, which kept the show warm and spontaneous. At one point, at what might have been a near impasse of wills, Vic trumped Mark by announcing she had to go to the bathroom, so he'd _have_ to play his song next. While whe was offstage, however, Mark told the audience a story instead. Vic returned to the stage in time to help him wrap up the story, and the play resumed. The unquestioned high point--a highlight of my concert-going life--was during a song called maybe "Old Blind Dog" or something (vintage Vic: 'you still have three legs to run with'). They prefaced this song by announcing that it would be accompanied by four banjos--four banjos! And as if that wasn't enough (and it was, it was) Vic took us all to another level of musical daredeviltry when she mischievously stomped on the banjo's wa-wa pedal. For the rest of the song, sounds came out of her banjo that were never meant to be heard by human ears. It was nearly a hallucinatory experience. I predict a new trend. - --Charley _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:10:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Jumper Subject: Re: Ecto's lowest point (was re: Sarah Polley) John Higdon wrote: If, as Charley says, I have offended or hurt anyone with my submission to this list, I apologize. I did not intend hurt, and I am truly sorry if anyone felt hurt by it. As a mostly-lurker, I feel compelled to pipe up and say that you certainly didn't offend me. I don't have the posts to quote from now (which actually underscores my point about the perceived intent), but I recall *your* post as essentially a discussion of the semantics of the word "enjoy". (That is, one can "enjoy" [as in "appreciate"] a work which is not nominally "enjoyable" [as in "pleasant", "fun", etc.]. Seems eminently reasonable to me -- would "tear-jerkers" ever get made, otherwise? Wouldn't comedies win Oscars every year?) The response you received was unprovoked, unwarranted, and out of all proportion to anything *I* read in what you wrote. Sorry it had to happen here. Greg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:14:34 -0700 From: Neile Graham Subject: Re: Ecto's lowest point Greg wrote: >Sorry it had to happen here. Ditto, though I understand where Charley was coming from and why he reacted as strongly as he did. I must say in Charley's defense that John's response did send alarm bells up for me, as well, mostly because his semantic argument didn't take into account what Vickie's post actually _said_ about where she was coming from. So anyway, there was miscommunication all around, and I'm sorry it happened. It is important to me that particularly in situations where we're talking about other people's reactions to art we remember that it is entirely subjective and keep our comment in terms of the piece of work itself rather than arguing about people's responses to it--those things are unarguable. The list seems to recently be going through a big growing pain in relation to the whole issue of art versus response to art, and I think it would be helpful if we all--at all times--take a deep breath before responding to messages that upset us. That's what I've been trying to do. This list used to have a reputation for being friendly--let's all work at keeping it that way! This goes beyond "making nice"--in a list with such diverse tastes we need to respect each other's opinions no matter how much we disagree or we'll continually have situations like this. I'd rather not see such divisions grow and divide the list. We need to remember what we all have in common--a passion for music--or we wouldn't be here. - --Neile - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Neile Graham ..... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ..... neile@sff.net The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music .... http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:03:56 -0700 From: Neile Graham Subject: Tori on BBC radio For our U.K. Toriphiles on the list: >From: "Toni Rolland" >To: "Tori News" >Subject: Tori at Glastonbury >Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 21:37:02 +0100 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-Priority: 3 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 >Sender: owner-torinews@smoe.org >Precedence: bulk > >Just thought all you Toriphiles in the UK would like to know that highlights >of Tori's concert at Glastonbury will be on BBC2 at 8pm and the full >concert (I think) is on Radio 1 starting around 2pm. I don't know how long >she's playing for. (It's in the Radio Times) > > >Toni > >************************************************* >You won't gain weight from a doughnut hole > >************************************************** > >__________________________________________________________________________ >To unsubscribe from ToriNews, e-mail torinews-request@smoe.org with the >word "unsubscribe" in the message body. > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Neile Graham ..... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ..... neile@sff.net The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music .... http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:54:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Ofer Inbar Subject: Re: Imogen Heap, Ecto-synchronicity Greg Jumper wrote: > In the synchronicity department, a few weeks ago I wrote: > > I've just started looking at the Tangerine Dream bins in the > music stores again recently. It looks like some of their > earlier work is reappearing, sometimes in remastered > versions. I'd love to get _Ricochet_ and _Stratosfear_ on > CD; maybe they'll turn up soon... > > In fact, later that same week I *did* find both _Ricochet_ and > _Stratosfear_ locally, for anyone else who's looking... And in further syncronicity... Last week I finally read the liner notes of a random Tangerine Dream album I picked up in a used bin in New Hampshire last year. I had never heard of it when I bought it, but it became one of my favorites (second only to Le Parc, I think), and now I know why. I saw Tangerine Dream live at the Berklee Performance Center in 1992. They had with them an amazing woman, Linda Spa, who played all manner of flute & brass instruments. So now it turns out that this CD I got, "220 Volt live", is a live CD from their 1992 tour, and it has Linda Spa on it. Previously, the only recording of theirs she appeared on was the "B side" of the Rockoon promotional single, "Oriental Haze", which I don't think was ever sold in stores. I think it's actually the same recording of Oriental Haze as on 220 Volt live. -- Cos (Ofer Inbar) -- cos@leftbank.com cos@polyamory.org Any system of 'justice' in which ignorance of the law is no exception, but in which there are too many laws for any one person to know and remember, is by definition unjust. -- Stanton McCandlish, mech@eff.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:54:35 -0700 (PDT) From: charley darbo Subject: Ecto's badly needed altitude adjustment Leave it to Neile to cut, bladeless, to the heart of the matter. I did not mean to suggest that John was being intentionally cruel; only insensitive. I, too, am sorry it happened on Ecto, but I chose to post my reply rather than email it privately because my almost literally overwhelming feeling when I wrote and hit “send” was that Ecto was where Vickie had been—whether intentionally or merely unthinkingly—injured (as I knew she certainly must have been) by John’s post. I disagree vehemently and remain horrified with John’s understanding of the subject at hand, and would have said exactly the same things to him if we’d had the discussion in person; though I might have modified my tone if we’d been discussing it in the abstract, rather than as a response to Vickie’s post. The whole episode has been antiEctopian—not least my contribution to it (especially my gratuitous disparaging of John’s sig.line, for which I _will_ apologize). Thannks for being the grownup, Neile, and Vickie—I wish I had the courage she’s displayed in her last few posts. —Charley _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 21:59:49 -0500 From: Felix Strates Subject: Re: mix tape help At 2:22 AM -0400 on 6/21/98, Pez Girl wrote: >Okay, I've got about three-five minutes of blank tape at the end of a mix >tape I'm making. So far, the side looks like this: > >"Indian Summer"/Luna "Wow and Flutter"/Stereolab "Make the >Weather"/Waitresses "Driving with One Hand on the Wheel"/Aimee Mann "Wanted >Was"/Bob Mould "Lay of the Land"/Merrie Amsterburg "Angeles"/Elliott Smith Well, you've prolly already found stuff to finish this tape with and I don't know many of the artists you list, but I'll tell you...I like to pair "Angeles" with "Coming Up Roses." np: Janis Ian, "Take Me Walking In The Rain" - - - - - - - - - - Felix Strates watch you foam at the mouth panflx@earthlink.net and transcend today Omaha -- June of '44, "The Dexterity of Luck" - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 01:29:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Neal Copperman Subject: Re: Ecto's lowest point On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Neile Graham wrote: > > Greg wrote: > > >Sorry it had to happen here. > > Ditto, though I understand where Charley was coming from and why he reacted > as strongly as he did. I must say in Charley's defense that John's > response did send alarm bells up for me, as well, mostly because his > semantic argument didn't take into account what Vickie's post actually > _said_ about where she was coming from. But this is what Vickie's post said: "My reasons for hating it are very personal and so wouldn't apply to anyone else seeing the film." And that was it. That was enough for me, and you, and Charley, and anyone else who has been around for enough years (and it would have to be at least 3 or 4) to know what she was talking about. But without that knowledge, it doesn't seem at all obvious to me. > This list used to have a reputation for being friendly--let's all work at > keeping it that way! > > This goes beyond "making nice"--in a list with such diverse tastes we need > to respect each other's opinions no matter how much we disagree or we'll > continually have situations like this. I'd rather not see such divisions > grow and divide the list. Everyone seems to agree with this philosophy, in theory at least. I wouldn't add to this except that this post read (to me) as a (slight) defense of Charley's post as a valid response to John's. If John's post hurt anyone's feelings, it was done accidentally and politely, neither of which is true about the response. John posted something that was an opportunity to engage in a dialogue that could have been enlightening for many of us. The response, while perhaps comprehensible (as opposed to defensible), didn't offer any of that. And to top it off, John apologized for any accidental pain he caused anyone. If anything, his reactions have (largely) been a model of exactly what you are talking about above. Neal ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V4 #201 **************************