From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V4 #2 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Saturday, January 3 1998 Volume 04 : Number 002 Today's Subjects: ----------------- 1997 Faves [Emmy May Lombaerts ] Latest acquisitions [mbittner@juno.com] Re: Latest acquisitions ["jeffrey c. burka" ] Re: Innocence Mission [Heather Russell ] Michelle Shocked Discography (was Re: Latest acquisitions) [Riphug ] 10KM [sspan ] Re: Innocence Mission [Horter3 ] Re: 10KM [Bill ] Neile's 1997 (part 1, the top) [Neile Graham ] Re: Innocence Mission [Neile Graham ] Re: 10KM [Michael Curry ] Re: Innocence Mission [Michael Curry ] Re: Innocence Mission [Andrew Fries ] The Patty Griffin mailing list now launched on smoe.org :) [Mike Connell ] Re: Music swapping... (fwd) [Neal Copperman ] Re: 10KM [Neal Copperman ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 09:07:37 +0100 From: Emmy May Lombaerts Subject: 1997 Faves In no particular order: Albums: Veiled - Leah Andreone (strictly from 1996 but still a great 97 fave :) ) The Book of Secrets - Loreena McKennitt Surfacing - Sarah McLachlan Living In Clip - Ani DiFranco Dark, Dear Heart - Holly Cole Holly Palmer - Holly Palmer Evita - Madonna/O.S.T. Left Of The Middle - Natalie Imbruglia Secret Samurai - Live Tidal - Fiona Apple Under These Rocks And Stones - Chantal Kreviazuk Seen live: Kristina Olsen left a great impression at a small folk-festival I went to. As did Joan Osborne at Marktrock. Films: Liar Liar The People Vs Larry Flint Devil's Advocate Fierce Creatures Lost Highway Romeo & Juliet Happy New Year everyone =) Emmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 07:19:02 -0600 From: mbittner@juno.com Subject: Latest acquisitions Well, I was blessed with three great discs this holiday season. The first two complete artists' collections, and the last one I'm not sure about - more later. _Elemental_, Loreena McKennitt. I can understand why some people like her older stuff better. This is "true" celtic music, very "simple" (but not too simple - sorry, I just watched the Pinky and the Brain episode with the fashion stuff called "Calvin Brain") and very likable. However, for me, I like all the "earthy tones" on her later albums. Just MHO. _fumbling towards ecstasy_, Sarah McLachlan. I have had this on tape, but never got around to replacing it with a CD. Especially since I was more interested in buying "newer" stuff. Yes, for me personally, this is Sarah's best album. _Short Sharp Shocked_, Michelle Shocked. I have been wanting to buy the rest of her "stuff", and this was given to me as a gift. It's great. I truly enjoy Michelle, sometimes over other artists. My request: does anybody have a discography of Michelle Shocked? I have the above, plus _Captain Swing_, _Arkansas Traveler_ and _Kind Hearted Woman_. I went to her site, and she only lists _Kind Hearted Woman_, probably because it's the first disc on her new label. About a comment I made awhile ago that touched off some debate. When I mentioned that I thought it was bad that Loreena is getting more air time, it was because I meant now I will be inundated with "Mummer's Dance", which means I will get tired of it. I personally don't like getting tired of music because it's played over and over and over and... Which means I don't like most radio stations. :-) An ecto discovery I'm glad everybody mentioned earlier: Sarah Slean. I purchase her cassette through Gian (Thanks, Gian!), and it came while I was away on Holiday Vacation. Well, it has been in my car's tape deck since, and I think I've gone through the tape three times. Not a lot, but I'm not often in my car. She is quite amazing. At one point I thought "This is what Tori could have been if she didn't go the route of BfP", but then thought that was an unfair comment about Sarah. She is truly amazing. All songs are great. Now I need to buy some Veda Hille. ;-) Matt Bittner ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 09:33:01 -0500 (EST) From: "jeffrey c. burka" Subject: Re: Latest acquisitions matt asks: > My request: does anybody have a discography of Michelle Shocked? I have > the above, plus _Captain Swing_, _Arkansas Traveler_ and _Kind Hearted > Woman_. I went to her site, and she only lists _Kind Hearted Woman_, > probably because it's the first disc on her new label. er....the only other one I can think of is the _Texas Campfire Tapes_ (which came out after _Short, Sharp, Shock_ but was recorded earlier) jeff ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 09:56:01 -0500 From: Heather Russell Subject: Re: Innocence Mission > The new year is already looking promising, > and I'm especially looking forward to new releases by Tori Amos, Susan > McKeown, Kristen Hersh, Ani Difranco, Suddenly, Tammy!, and Innocence > Mission. > > > Mike I'm a fan of the Innocence Mission but I didn't realize they were coming out with a new album this year - any more details? Heather - -- |***********************************| | Heather Russell | | http://www.freecloud.com/heather | | hrussell@bellsouth.net | |___________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 11:02:55 EST From: Riphug Subject: Michelle Shocked Discography (was Re: Latest acquisitions) In a message dated 98-01-02 09:03:21 EST, mbittner@juno.com writes: << My request: does anybody have a discography of Michelle Shocked? I have the above, plus _Captain Swing_, _Arkansas Traveler_ and _Kind Hearted Woman_. I went to her site, and she only lists _Kind Hearted Woman_, probably because it's the first disc on her new label. >> I like Michelle Shocked, too! I have "Short Sharp Shocked," "Arkansas Traveller, " and "Mercury Poise 1988 - 1995." The last one is my favorite because she uses so many different styles of music -- jazz, country, blues, a little of everything. ;-) After searching the internet, this is the discography I've found: Kind Hearted Woman Mercury Poise - 1988 - 1995 Arkansas Traveler Captain Swing Texas Campfire Tapes Short Sharp Shocked Bsides! Lyrics for songs from all of these (except Mercury Poise) are available at the Lyrics section of Michelle's website www.shellshock.com In other news..... <> The following review is from UKOnlineMusic. Wav files are available for downloading from this site: http://www.ukonline.co.uk/UKOnline/Music/cdreviews/michelle.html <> A partial discography including singles and appearances on other CD's can be found at: http://web.cgrg.ohio- state.edu/folkbook/artists/discographies/shocked.michelle2  Finally, a list of Michelle Shocked bootleg recordings can be found at: http://www.spacecoast.net/users/mrrunion/shocked.htm I could probably do this all day.......but I guess that's enough for now, huh? *hugs and kisses* all around, Jill :D ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 13:47:54 -0500 (EST) From: isometric plaything Subject: Top 10 lists... My top 10 finds for 1997 would have to be: 1. Spirit of the West - Weights & Measures 2. Great Big Sea - Play 3. Linda McRae - Flying Jenny 4. Sarah McLauclan - Surfacing 5. Alphaville - Salvation 6. Jonatha Brooke - 10 cent Wings 7. Leahy - Leahy 8. Swingers Soundtrack 9. Everything by the Squirrel Nut Zippers released this year. 10. Ben Fols Five - Whatever And Ever Amen. Best performances - The Mudhens, Barbara Kessler/Jennifer Kimball. Happy new year everyone! - -cas np. Linda McRae - Flying Jenny ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 18:40:43 -0800 From: sspan Subject: 10KM I've now noticed several people putting 10,000 Maniacs' new CD as one of their big disappointments of the year. I was wondering if this would still hold true if this was their debut and no one had heard them with Natalie. If you were expecting them to sound the same as they did before of course you'll be disappointed. I think it's a great album, fun to listen to, and the band is apparently having fun with it too. I understand they're a lot more approachable than they were before, much more easy going. And remember, the alternative to 10KM with Mary and John is no 10KM at all.. and Tigerlily wasn't anything spectacular, now was it? - -- ++ -dave- ++ + irc.Dal.net #Panic_Beach + + Maria McKee/Grey Eye Glances/Lisa Loeb + ++ ++ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 17:28:50 EST From: Horter3 Subject: Re: Innocence Mission In a message dated 98-01-02 10:24:42 EST, hrussell@bellsouth.net writes: > I'm a fan of the Innocence Mission but I didn't realize they were coming > out with a new album this year - any more details? I thought that they broke up?? And that the lead singer (name??) was doing a solo album. Or had one out already. Or something! :-) Tom ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 15:21:48 -0800 From: Bill Subject: Re: 10KM > ... and Tigerlily wasn't >anything spectacular, now was it? I enjoyed Natalie Merchant's Tingerlily album very much. Perhaps it wasn't her best effort, nor a pure work of art (as many other debut solo albums have been), but still very enjoyable. I played Tingerlily over and over on my 1,300-mile drive from San Francisco to Bellingham, WA along HWY 1 (da coast). - - Bill. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 17:46:53 -0600 From: Neile Graham Subject: Neile's 1997 (part 1, the top) - ----my absolute tops for 1997: music I expect will haunt my cd player far into the next millenium---- Veda Hille--Here Is A Picture Meth and woj have my eternal gratitude for sending this to me. This disc is a delight and actually it surprises me how very much I like it. You see, when I heard Veda do these songs in concert, while I liked them I never loved them as I love the songs from her other three collections. Maybe it's the fact that I'm hearing them for the first time in context and recorded and not in a tavern where everyone is yacking around me, but I find this album wonderful and affecting. And most miraculously, it does capture a feeling of who the painter Emily Carr mighthave been, and gives the sense of a life progressing. How does Veda do this? I don't really know, but I find this an amazing, effective collection. Canadian--special order, but U.S. distribution forthcoming. Ingrid Karklins--Red Hand A highly individual effort: a construct of passion, both of affection and anger. This is power without bombast--sonic richness and simplicity and density and clarity all at once. And of course Ingrid's voice and sensibility. An album that forces you to listen. To get involved. And the gorgeous packaging. U.S.--mail order. lamb--lamb This one really caught my ears this year and didn't let them go. Electronica in the Portishead vein, but melodic and musically intriguing, and oh, that voice and the powerful songs she sings! By far my favourite debut of the year. I play this and play this and play this and can't seem to tire of it. The songs have the emotive strength of Beth Gibbons of Portishead, but are just enough more upbeat that and with a greater variety of emotion evoked that I find this is something I want to listen to more often. U.K.--widely available, though maybe in the Trip Hop area. - ----Other excellent music---- Bjork--homogenic My favourite of Bjork's albums, this is mysterious and wonderful. Haunting tunes. Less pop and more strangeness than her earlier albums but still dancey. Widely available everywhere. Broadcast--Work and Non Work More electronica, but great songs and a great voice. Another disc that stood up to obsessive repeat plays. Material overlaps with their Booklover's EP of last year. U.K.--import stores in U.S. Lisa Cerbone--Mercy While I found her first album nice enough to keep and play every once in a while, this album really caught my ears (thanks, Neal). The songs show a wonderful maturity and her style is so much richer in this album. Great pop music--catchy but not thin. Enough sonically and lyrically to listen to for a long time. U.S.--pretty widely available in the U.S. ani difranco--living in clip I usually don't like live albums. That said, I think this is a wonderful compilation of Ani's material and presence. This is one of the few live albums that will get a lot of player time. Listenable in the best of all ways. And Ani is a great performer. U.S.--wide distribution Laika--Sound of the Satellites What was it about electronic music this year, anyway? Somehow it just seems to have found its feet for me. Anyway, I've always liked Laika's music, but this album is a delight. Full of strange and catchy songs and lines, it's the find of music you find yourself humming and trying to remember where it's from. Hey, and there's even a song called "Spooky Rhodes". Have they been listening to Happy? Anyway, great electronica. Lovely voices and songcrafting. Not to be confused with the surf rockers, Laika and the Cosmonauts. U.K.--in import shops in U.S. Lida Husik--Fly Stereophonic Lida Husik is an unrecognized pop genius. Each of her albums takes me a while to realize just how different each sounds yet how very Lida they all are. She's got a subtle way with a song hook, and I frequently don't realize how much she's grabbed my attention till I find myself carrying her songs in my head with me all the time. This is another fine album from her. She deserves far more recognition than she receives. She's truly wonderful. U.S.--stores that carry indie recordings. Susan James--Shocking Pink Banana Seat (1996) Susan James--Life Between Two Worlds (1990) Well, _Life Between Two Worlds_ is a tape from 1990 and _Shocking Pink Banana Seat_ is officially from 1996, but I got them both this year. _Life Between Two Worlds_ is a mostly folky-sounding rock album, with some lovely work and two great songs that I've been busy adoring since I first heard them: "From Across The Sea" and "Far Away". There are other lovely moments, too, but those are the songs that reach up and grab me if I allow my attention to drift. I've written about _Shocking Pink Banana Seat_ before on ecto let me say again, I think it's a wonderful album. It took me a while to be able to hear it at first, but damn I love it now. I think she's one of the guitarists around. Versatile player and a knockout voice. U.S.--mail order. The Moon Seven Times--Sunburnt Yes, I know I was disappointed with this when I first got it, but it has since grown on me. A lot. I still hate the guitar noodling over a couple of the songs, but underneath that Henry Frayne's brilliant guitar work and Lyn Canfield's voice still get me every time. "Some of Them Burn" is one of M7X's best songs every, and there's other great work here. Don't dismiss this as I did at first because it's not another album like their ethereal eponymous debut or their rocky _7=49_. _Sunburnt_ is a wonderful album that is another side of this creative and talented band. Wonderful songs, great guitar, and catchy vocals. The is is a great band. U.S.--stores which carry indie discs. Seely--Julie Only Seely--Seconds Seely sounds a lot like early Stereolab, and now that Stereolab has abandoned that style (much to my dismay) the territory is Seely's alone. Not that they're doing the 60s stuff that Stereolab doing, it's more in the vocal harmonies and overall complexly simply soundscapes they create. Lovely music, wonderful female vocals. Ethereal, yet more song-oriented than the Cocteau Twin stream of things. Highly recommended. U.S.--stores that carry indie and U.K. rock Shai nO Shai--Human Condition No one else seems to have heard this album or at least mentioned it on ecto. I found this by being bored in Tower and idly playing with the sound station in the world music area. This is worldish rock and has great female vocals (lyrics in English). Strong Middle Eastern flavour with contemporary pop has all kinds of echos. First it reminds me of early Sheila Chandra, then Sinead O'Connor, then early Bel Canto, with a bit of the yelling/singing of Boo Trundle and rap influences at times then beautiful ballad-like songs. High energy. I like urgency--this album has it. France--seems to have good distribution in the U.S. More to come when I've had a change to finish re-listening. - --Neile - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Neile Graham ..... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ..... neile@sff.net The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music .... http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 18:03:52 -0600 From: Neile Graham Subject: Re: Innocence Mission At 5:28 PM -0500 1/2/98, Horter3 wrote: >In a message dated 98-01-02 10:24:42 EST, hrussell@bellsouth.net writes: > >> I'm a fan of the Innocence Mission but I didn't realize they were coming >> out with a new album this year - any more details? >I thought that they broke up?? And that the lead singer (name??) was doing a >solo album. Or had one out already. Or something! :-) Nope, you must be confusing them with someone else. The Innocence Mission are still together, and I have heard that they were in the process of recording a new album due out this year, but I don't know anything more than that. Don't have a release date or anything. - --Neile - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Neile Graham ..... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ..... neile@sff.net The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music .... http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 18:17:41 -0600 (CST) From: Michael Curry Subject: Re: 10KM On Fri, 2 Jan 1998, sspan wrote: > I've now noticed several people putting 10,000 Maniacs' new CD > as one of their big disappointments of the year. I was wondering if > this would still hold true if this was their debut and no one had > heard them with Natalie. If you were expecting them to sound the same > as they did before of course you'll be disappointed. I think it's > a great album, fun to listen to, and the band is apparently having > fun with it too. I understand they're a lot more approachable than they > were before, much more easy going. And remember, the alternative to > 10KM with Mary and John is no 10KM at all.. and Tigerlily wasn't > anything spectacular, now was it? If it was the first 10KM album I probably never would have bought it at all if I had listened to it first at a listening station in some record store or only heard the rather bad Roxy Music cover song. It isn't that Meredith and I miss Natalie. She and I saw the new 10KM lineup before they even started in on the album, and we thought they were great. The stuff 10KM were doing back when John was still in the band was some of thier best stuff. The albums John and Mary did together are good. So we had high expectations for _Love Among the Ruins_. Unfortunately the album didn't live up to what it could have been, and instead is (imo) overproduced, bland and boring. That's the disappontment. Mike np: Mila Drumke -- Illinois nr: The Demon-Haunted World by Carl Sagan | Michael Curry / mcurry@io.com / mcurry@compuserve.com | | http://www.io.com/~mcurry | | Am I bitter? Do I sound bitter? -- Veda Hille | ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 18:27:29 -0600 (CST) From: Michael Curry Subject: Re: Innocence Mission On Fri, 2 Jan 1998, Heather Russell wrote: > I'm a fan of the Innocence Mission but I didn't realize they were coming > out with a new album this year - any more details? Maybe I'm jumping the gun a bit... last I heard they were headed into the studio last summer so I guess I'm just assuming there will be a release at some point this year. I certainly have not heard anything about them breaking up or Karen doing a solo record, as someone else mentioned, and none of the web sources for IM info mention anything about such events. You can hear Karen and Don on Mila Drumke's _Illinois_, where Karen sings backing vocals on a song and Don plays guitar on a couple. Mike np: Mila Drumke -- Illinois | Michael Curry / mcurry@io.com / mcurry@compuserve.com | | http://www.io.com/~mcurry | | Am I bitter? Do I sound bitter? -- Veda Hille | ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 14:04:51 +1100 From: Andrew Fries Subject: Re: Innocence Mission Horter3 writes: >I thought that they broke up?? And that the lead singer (name??) was doing a >solo album. Or had one out already. Or something! :-) Could it be that you're confusing the Innocence Mission with 10,000 Maniacs by any chance? I know I do that myself occasionally :) And speaking of the Maniacs/Natalie Merchant... sspan says: >and Tigerlily wasn't >anything spectacular, now was it? I thought it was! I loved this album right from the start, and I still rate it highly. But I'll admit that Natalie's voice is one of my favourite sounds on this planet - if they ever released a CD of her just reading out the pages from a phone book I'd probably buy it too, and what's more, I'd enjoy it! So OK, maybe I'm biased... - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Jordan: Hey Amy do you love me? Amy: Yeah. Totally. Why? Jordan: Just, "I love you" can mean a lot of things, like "You'll do until someone better comes along" or "I can't describe how I really feel but I know I'm supposed to say this" or "Shut up! I'm watching TV"... The Doom Generation Visit my site devoted to little-known Australian bands... http://www.zip.com.au/~afries/hall.html - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 22:59:18 -0500 From: Mike Connell Subject: The Patty Griffin mailing list now launched on smoe.org :) Hey there ectofiles :) I am not sure if anyone has yet mentioned this on the ecto list, but I just wanted to take this opportunity to announce the launching of mad-mission@smoe.org - the Patty Griffin mailing list. :) I am certain more than a few of you have either heard of or seen Patty, and I DO know those of you who were at JewelStock did. She's great! :) You can check out her page on the A&M Records site at: http://www.amrecords.com/current/pattygriffin/index.html or a *great* fan page by Jerry Zigmont at: http://nw3.nai.net/~zigmont Please spread the word around to any folks you feel may be interested in joining this new list (launched January 1st). To subscribe, send an email to mad-mission-request@smoe.org and have ONLY the word subscribe in the BODY of the email. If you have a signature file attached to your emails, please disable it. If you can't, then instead send the following two-line command: subscribe end to mad-mission-request@smoe.org You will soon thereafter get an email from confirm@smoe.org Reply to that, sending back a key/code it sent YOU, and you are in.... any problems or questions, feel free to email me :) Hope to see you on the list :) Mike :) **** The Jewel EveryDay Angels List Homepage & Guide is at: http://www.spectra.net/~ducksoup The Patty Griffin/Mad-Mission@smoe List Homepage is at: http://www.spectra.net/~ducksoup/pattyg/patttour.htm Ducksoup@spectra.net DuckofPrey@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 00:11:55 -0500 (EST) From: Neal Copperman Subject: Re: Music swapping... (fwd) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 20:11:10 -0800 From: Greg Bossert (inadvertantly sent to me but not ecto...) > Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 01:35:32 -0500 (EST) > From: Neal Copperman > > On Mon, 29 Dec 1997, Robert I. Stewart wrote: > > > P.P.S. In another weird piece of ecto-synchronicity(?), I discovered > > that the bass player on Kate Bush's The Red Shoes used to > > play bass for one of my favourite bands, Simple Minds. At > > least, I *think* there can't be too many bass players called > > John Giblin around - but hey, I've been wrong before :) > > He also appears on Never For Ever and The Sensual World, as well as Peter > Gabriel's melting face and Birdy albums. (Undoubtedly not a conclusive > list.) John Giblin has been most associated with the 'fusion jazz' group Brand X (which occasionally includes Phil Collins, who is, BTW, an extraordinary drummer when he gets around to it), and he's played with everyone from Alan Stivell to to the Everly Brothers... John is one of the somewhat ubiquitous british art-rock bass gods (along with Mick Karn, Pino Palladino, and my personal fave Percy Jones). The acoustic bass player Danny Thompson also pops up in similar circles -- i adore his playing on KaTe's _Hounds of Love_ a great resource for looking up backing musicians is the AMG All-Music guide: http://205.186.189.2/amg/music_root.html for years i've wanted something like the Internet Movie DataBase for music -- looks like AMG has done it. plus, Happy and Kevin are in there :) 'tah. - -- greg bossert 650-933-6431 -- - -- gwis, silicon graphics, inc. bossert@sgi.com -- - -- i have never been afraid to change -- Happy -- - -- the circumstances of the world -- Rhodes -- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 00:18:58 -0500 (EST) From: Neal Copperman Subject: Re: 10KM On Fri, 2 Jan 1998, Michael Curry wrote: > > On Fri, 2 Jan 1998, sspan wrote: > > > I've now noticed several people putting 10,000 Maniacs' new CD > > as one of their big disappointments of the year. I was wondering if > > this would still hold true if this was their debut and no one had > > heard them with Natalie. If you were expecting them to sound the same > > as they did before of course you'll be disappointed. > > If it was the first 10KM album I probably never would have bought it at > all if I had listened to it first at a listening station in some record > store or only heard the rather bad Roxy Music cover song. > > It isn't that Meredith and I miss Natalie. She and I saw the new 10KM > lineup before they even started in on the album, and we thought they were > great. I agree completely with Mike. I don't miss Natalie, I miss John & Mary. I think the two J&M discs are better than the last 3 or 4 Maniacs discs. They went in similar, but not the same, directions. Most of what I like on the J&M discs seems to have gotten lost in the band sound of 10KM, and Mary seems to be working too hard to be Natalie Merchant (whereas everyone just naturally thought she was on the J&M records!). I guess I can't compare too much, because I was unexcited enough by what I heard not to pick up Love Among The Ruins, though I may at some point anyway. Over a year ago, I saw them live and they showed a lot of potential. In fact, I have a tape they were selling more like 2 or 3 years ago of J&M+10KM and a few Femmes, that showed some potential too. But live earlier this year I was just bored. And the Roxy Music cover was exciting in concept for the first 20 seconds, but then it never amounted to anything, either live or on the radio. Here's to the next release... Neal np: The New & Improved Inner Change Days - Jewel ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V4 #2 ************************