From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V3 #104 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Monday, December 15 1997 Volume 03 : Number 104 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Vonda Shepard [Guesch40 ] and now the fake news.. [sspan ] Re: hex and harper?? [squeaky watson ] Re: and now the fake news.. [squeaky watson ] Re: Lilith Fair Artist info... [00jnweiser@bsuvc.bsu.edu] Re: and now the fake news.. [Neal Copperman ] Re: and now the fake news.. [meredith ] Re: and now the fake news.. [Joseph Zitt ] Re: and now the fake news.. [Michael Curry ] Loreena sTuff [Paul Blair ] Re: and now the fake news.. [jason and jill ] Re: dead cats [charleydarbo ] Re: and now the fake news.. -Reply ["Kenn" ] Re: music [Greg Dunn ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 08:24:17 EST From: Guesch40 Subject: Re: Vonda Shepard I have a 1989 CD simply titled: Vonda Shepard on Reprise. I did not like the entire cd, but loved two songs "Don't Cry Ilene" and Jam Karet(Time Is Elastic). (I also broke into tears hearing her version of "Let it Snow" on the Ally McBeal TV show!!! In other words, I think she has enormous potential. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 12:01:56 -0800 From: sspan Subject: and now the fake news.. Note to self: Continue avoiding Lilith Fair until they get some good acts. Missy Elliot? puh-leez. On another note.. someone mentioned Tori dying her hair red.. I seem to recall seeing a picture of her as a young girl with red hair, so she may dye it, but it's probably just a different red. Put me on the pro BfP list. Yes, almost time for those top CD lists... might be hard to keep it down to 10 this year.. - -- ++ -dave- ++ + irc.Dal.net #Panic_Beach + + Maria McKee/Grey Eye Glances/Lisa Loeb + ++ ++ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 11:09:14 -0500 From: squeaky watson Subject: Re: hex and harper?? also sprach Neal Copperman: >Saw both Hex cd's. (I bought Vast Halos. Was the other one a better >choice?) maybe, i don't know. i really loved the first hex album when it came out, but _vast halos_ didn't excite me nearly as much at the time. these days, i rarely listen to either record, but i'd probably pull out the first simply for nostalgic reasons. hmmm. i should go listen to them again sometime... >And 4 Roy Harper discs. [...] >Anyway, the discs were:Stormcock, Work of Heart, Descendant of Smith, and >Loony on the Bus. I almost bought Stormcock, as it sounded the most >familiar. Thoughts? i'm sure anthony kosky will pipe up shortly, but here is my take on these four records. _stormcock_ is reputedly a work of genius. it's also one of the harper albums i haven't picked up yet. _work of heart_ is roy in a more commercial-sounding mode: he's backed with a full band and the record is rather produced. that said, some of the songs on this record are wonderful ("drawn to the flames" and the epic "work of heart" itself in particular), but i think i prefer the demo versions available on _born in captivity_. _decendant of smith_ (also known as _garden of uranium_) is good, but not one of my personal favorites. _loony on the bus_ is a sort of odds-n-sods collection. most of it is from the _commercial break_ album, which was hastily recorded, never released by emi, finally saw the light of day as part of science friction's re-issue series, and is often considered to be one of roy's weaker efforts. there are a few other tracks tossed in for good measure, such as the first part of the epic "burn the world". _loony_ is an odd, but enjoyable, album, but perhaps not a good starting place. woj n.p. locus solus -- waverly ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 11:18:09 -0500 From: squeaky watson Subject: Re: and now the fake news.. also sprach sspan: >Missy Elliot? puh-leez. i found myself watching emptv's "year in rock" program last night and they had a short spot on missy elliot. that's probably not a good place for a first exposure, but i thought the clips they played of hers were alright. as an aside, i was yet again amused by how far out of touch i was with the "big" stories of 1997 in mainstream music: the marilyn manson uproar, the puffy combs' sampling controversy (i thought we all got over that after vanilla ice, the u2/negativland hoopla and plunderphonics), the spice girls (i didn't know any of their names until last night). woj n.p. roy harper -- garden of uranium p.s. the power of suggestion is strong. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 12:11:49 -0500 (EST) From: 00jnweiser@bsuvc.bsu.edu Subject: Re: Lilith Fair Artist info... For anyone who saw Saturday Night Live when Sarah McLachlan was on, Ana Geyster (sp) is the one who sang "Basted in Blood" with her. She's got a strong, pretty voice imho. :) hth, Jessica ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 12:38:37 -0500 (EST) From: Neal Copperman Subject: Re: and now the fake news.. On Sun, 14 Dec 1997, squeaky watson wrote: > as an aside, i was yet again amused by how far out of touch i was with the > "big" stories of 1997 in mainstream music: the marilyn manson uproar, the > puffy combs' sampling controversy (i thought we all got over that after > vanilla ice, the u2/negativland hoopla and plunderphonics), the spice girls > (i didn't know any of their names until last night). So, what's the marilyn manson uproar, who is puffy combs' (and what was sampled), and aren't the spice girls Rafael, Donatello, Leonardo and co? np: A Happy Sampler (Phobos) and rice crispies ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 13:30:23 -0500 From: meredith Subject: Re: and now the fake news.. Hi! woj noted: >i found myself watching emptv's "year in rock" program last night and they >had a short spot on missy elliot. that's probably not a good place for a >first exposure, but i thought the clips they played of hers were alright. The only reason I've ever heard Missy Elliott's name is because Prodigy Internet packaged their software on her CD (why, I have no idea) and I had to help with the marketing end of that at work. I could've gotten a free CD out of it, but I chose to decline. I think I'm glad I did. :) >as an aside, i was yet again amused by how far out of touch i was with the >"big" stories of 1997 in mainstream music: the marilyn manson uproar, the >puffy combs' sampling controversy (i thought we all got over that after >vanilla ice, the u2/negativland hoopla and plunderphonics), the spice girls >(i didn't know any of their names until last night). I'm proud to say that I'm completely out of it too. I think I've only heard a few bars of a Spice Girls song (and from what I hear my life is all the better for it), and I still don't know their names. The few seconds of the Year In Rock thing that I did see were my first-ever sighting of Marilyn Manson (anyone else think he looks just like the singer of Dead Or Alive? :). And who's Puffy Combs, anyway??? (What's the big deal about sampling? It's not art, it's plagiarism. Avoid it and move on. But I digress.) Of course, if I were to trap Kurt Loder in a room and ask him who Happy Rhodes, Dar Williams, and Veda Hille are I'd get a blank stare from him too. Oh hey, I was listening to my favorite show on our local NPR station this morning, Sunday Morning Baroque, and they ended with a series of Medieval Christmas Carols. The last selection they played was a very period rendition of "There Is No Rose", the 15th-century English Carol that's on Susan McKeown's _Through The Bitter Frost and Snow_. This one was done by the Folger Consort, and it was very much more subdued than Susan's version; simply soprano with lute accompaniment. If anything it was reverent, where Susan's version is more celebratory, if that makes sense. Pretty neat. Just had to share. :) +==========================================================================+ | Meredith Tarr meth@smoe.org | | New Haven, CT USA http://www.smoe.org/~meth | +==========================================================================+ | "things are more beautiful when they're obscure" -- veda hille | |***TRAJECTORY, the Veda Hille mailing list: trajectory-request@smoe.org***| +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 14:01:58 -0600 From: Joseph Zitt Subject: Re: and now the fake news.. meredith wrote: > (What's the big deal about sampling? > It's not art, it's plagiarism. Avoid it and move on. But I digress.) Well, no. Sampling is useful. I've done it a lot. It's probably done a lot more than people are aware. What's critical is that people who sample should give credit and, if appropriate, payment to the people who they sample. Done ethically, it's no more plagiarism than using a musical instrument that someone else designed is plagiarism. - -- - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 13:20:18 -0600 (CST) From: Michael Curry Subject: Re: and now the fake news.. On Sun, 14 Dec 1997, meredith wrote: > :). And who's Puffy Combs, anyway??? (What's the big deal about > sampling? It's not art, it's plagiarism. Avoid it and move on. But I > digress.) Puffy Combs is more often known as Puff Daddy, the guy who managed to leap to fame on the back of his friend and fellow rapper The Notorious Big getting shot to death. Not that I'm in any way implying he planned it that way, but that it the way it worked out. Anyway, the plagarism charge often levelled at Puff Daddy comes from the fact that rather than just sampling riffs and other bits of songs to achieve a certain sounds (something I think can work well if done creatively) he takes almost entire songs and lays down raps (pretty bad raps) over them. For example, his tribute song for B.I.G. was just a complete ripoff of "Every Breath You Take", while his latest single is build on David Bowie's "Let's Dance". My opinion of Puffy is that he is to rap what Mariah Carey is to pop (and yes, I mean that as an insult). Mike np: Richard Shindell -- Blue Divide | Michael Curry / mcurry@io.com / mcurry@compuserve.com | | http://www.io.com/~mcurry | | Am I bitter? Do I sound bitter? -- Veda Hille | ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 14:12:53 -0500 From: Paul Blair Subject: Loreena sTuff meth wrote (in answer to Jeff): >>oh -- and don't forget that there have been a number of us who've dumped on >>Loreena for two albums now...not just because "Mummers Dance" is suddenly all >>over the radio. ;-) > >And I have to state that you're all confused. So Loreena got tired of the >Celtic thing after 4 albums of it. If you can't deal with that, just listen >to those 4 albums, then. Why can't people respect an artist's right to >explore new things and go off in new directions if they choose to do so? Interesting you should bring this up--lately I've been bringing *The Mask and Mirror* to listen to at work so I can identify why I haven't been so enthusiastic about it. (BTW, I don't have *The Book of Secrets* yet--it's on my Christmas list--so don't count me in with those who've "dumped on Loreena for two albums now," only one album.) And for my part I really don't think it has to do with her leaving behind the "Celtic thing"--though I'm not enough of a musician to be able to define exactly what constitutes the "Celtic thing." Here are my impressions going through the tracks: 1. "The Mystic's Dream"--this track perhaps most captures for me the ambivalence I feel about the album. On the one hand, I really like this song. On the other, there's something missing--there's this faint organ or keyboard part that comes in underneath toward the end of the last two verses, and I'm always listening for it from the beginning, and when I get to it it's not enough. It's something I'm wanting in the bass that gets into your hips and makes the music feel really sexy, something that would add a real yearning stab when she sings "call me home." Without it the music feels a bit ascetic. Loreena's a good enough musician where I'm sure this is intentional, and it is the mystic's dream, after all. But I get frustrated every time I hear it by the promise of a fulfillment that it doesn't deliver. 2. "The Bonny Swans"--Love it. But then, you'll say that that's because it's leftover "Celtic thing." :-) 3. "The Dark Night of the Soul"--Now the album gets more introspective. But after a few listens I've come to really like this song too. 4. "Marrakesh Night Market"--Here's where the album starts going downhill for me. It's not so much that the music has set off for southern ports--rather, it's that it's missing something hot and driving underneath that would make it really rock. The music is upbeat, after all, but it doesn't catch me up in it. And the track is six and a half minutes long. This song reminds me of the way I reacted to that Gerard Depardieu movie *1492* about Columbus: here are a bunch of northern Europeans from the winter lands trying to play fiery-blooded southern Europeans, and they just don't get it. 5. "Full Circle"--This is actually quite a beautiful song. Unfortunately, for me it's similar to the beautiful slow songs Enya does: for some reason they all tend to run together in my mind. Perhaps it's because by this point in the album I'm frustrated about not getting caught up in the upbeat stuff, so getting a slow, quiet song here just makes me more impatient. 6. "Santiago"--This one's closer to scratching the itch, but I can't help wanting even it to be more furiously intense. There's a little transitional bit after about the first third that sounds like it's going to lead somewhere interesting, but instead it disappoints me by going right back to the top. 7. "The Two Trees"--Every time I hear this, I think, "Wow! That's fantastic! How come I didn't remember that this was on the album?" This is as Loreena as Loreena comes. 8. "Prospero's Speech"--This is a real letdown after "The Two Trees," which would have made an excellent album-ending track. Bleak. Unfortunate, because then you're not left with as good a memory of the album as you might have had. Here's what it all adds up to for me: there are some real gems on this album, but I tend to lose them unless I'm paying real close attention to what's going on. As the album progresses I get disappointed by the upbeat tracks, which waters down my appreciation of the stunning slow, introspective tracks. Then finishing off with the last track's bleakness undermines my recollection of the other slow tracks. It was surprising to me how much the order of the tracks had to do with my original lack of enthusiasm for this album. I'd be curious to know whether the rest of you who've said you were bored by the album had similar experiences. Cheers, Paul ***************************************************************************** "Let her out? But she's a killer!" "No she's not. And give her your coat." SINED "Why me?" "Because you're perfect." Paul Blair "You have a point there..." psfblair@ix.netcom.com ***************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 14:51:50 -0500 (EST) From: jason and jill Subject: Re: and now the fake news.. On Sun, 14 Dec 1997, meredith wrote: > :). And who's Puffy Combs, anyway??? (What's the big deal about sampling? > It's not art, it's plagiarism. Avoid it and move on. But I digress.) Tough talk for someone from Charles Ives' hometown. ;) Jason ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 14:13:04 +0000 From: charleydarbo Subject: Re: dead cats forum@inlink.com [irvin] wrote: > by the way, the KOSTARS cd entitled KLASSICS WITH A K is excellent. > being a fan of LUSCIOUS JACKSON helps, but still even if you don't like > them that much i would recommend them. side project with jill and vivian > of LJ, they are softer and much more organic than LJ. stand out tracks > include RED UMBRELLA, and FRENCH KISS (sung entirely in a bad french > accent, i love it), and the track right before that which i can't remember > the name of, but feature the WEEN brothers. what a great side project. has > anyone talked about them and i missed the conversation? I'm pretty sure I talked about this album when I first picked it up over a year ago. I don't remember exactly when, but I got it a month or so before it was released and loved it immediately and immensely. I'm surprised I di.dn't play it for you on one of your trips up here, irvin. I still haven't written to ecto about my trip to Seattle where I met Neile Graham and spent $600 on cds. Though I'll deny it in the future. I found some amazing stuff, and some real garbage. Nelie was wonderful; an excellent guide to a city I'm already homesick for. I think I'm moving there as soon as it makes practical sense to do so. Anyway. No more time to write now--I'm trying to accumulate as many overtime hours as I can to recover from my binge. - --charley np: Spiritualized: _Ladies_and_Gentlemen_We_Are_Floating_in_Space_ - --definitely on the short list for best album of 1997. nr: Ellen Ullman: _Close_to_the_Machine_ --a beautifully written book about the humanity at the heart of the inhuman world of computers. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 15:35:19 -0500 From: "Kenn" Subject: Re: and now the fake news.. -Reply Regarding sampling, Joseph wrote: > Done ethically, it's no more plagiarism than using a musical instrument > that someone else designed is plagiarism. Thank you, Joseph, for being the voice of enlightenment. Who's to say what mediums should or should not be used in a creative endeavor? To belittle any given person's creativity simply because one doesn't approve of (or, likely, understand) that person's choice of artistic expression is myopic on the part of the critic. To adhere to the belief that any particular form of artistic expression is more or less valuable than another limits the potential breadth of art we might come to know and love in the future. And who among us has the right to put walls around the evolution of art? On a similar note, some of you have been quite vocal lately and in the past about your negative impressions of the music created by artists who do not necessarily fall within the general definition of an Ecto artist. But, I wonder if, when you've been riding any given artist into the ground for what you view as substandard creativity, you've taken a moment to consider that there are many others out there who might very well have been touched in a meaningful and enriching manner by the work of the same artist you've dismissed as a low-talent hack. Perhaps a bit more general respect for the thoughts of others is in order at those times. Personally speaking, I've held my cyber-tongue more times than I can count when I've read certain posts on this list and others extolling the virtues of musicians whose work I find unimaginative, dull or downright repugnant. They've simply been those "if you don't have anything nice to say..." situations and I've felt that it's better to hold back than to take the chance of offending others who might be devout fans of that artist whose work I find unappealing. It's no wonder that lurkers and newbies on mailing lists are often hesitant to offer their opinions. When the long-timers are casting aspersions at artists other than the one(s) because of whom the mailing list exists, I'm not at all surprised that so many people remain silent on lists or unsub altogether. That can be pretty intimidating. Please understand that I do not mean to for this post to come off sounding pedantic. I'm just concerned about the fairness of such behavior as these kind of potshots. Please remember that there are people who subscribe to this list who are very well-rounded in their musical tastes and that you might very well be stepping on toes you might not know even exist. I've been on this list for quite a while now and I don't think anyone here would insult anyone intentionally, but there are those of you who are doing so thoughtlessly. Peace. Kenn ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 15:44:28 -0500 From: "Kenn" Subject: Re: Lilith Fair Artist info... -Reply -Reply Joseph wrote: > That would be the Ann Peebles's memorable classic. Tina got around to > doing it much, much later. Oh, heavens... it would appear my tender youthfulness is showing. ;^) Thanks for the correction, Joseph. It is appreciated. Peace. Kenn ------------------------------ Date: 13 Dec 1997 11:43:56 EDT From: Ariana@nycmetro.com Subject: music I bought about a month ago. I've been either lazy or busy to write about the music I bought some time ago. I wanted to give a fair listen to most of it before I wrote. I found sister 7-This the trip for .88 at Sounds. It's growing on me. I really like the song "Perfect". I bought Kim Fox-Moon Hunt for $3 at Venus Records. I hesistated to buy it but I must say I love this album. There is something about her voice and her piano playing that I like. She has some interesting songs on the album like "Could have been a saint" and "Flowers have o's" which is about some weird dreams that might mean something. I got Barenaked Ladies Shoe Box Ep for $1.99 at Sounds. If it wasn't that cheap it wouldn't been worth it. The songs were ok. I like cd rom stuff that's on it also. I got Pet for .88 at sounds. I haven't listened to it enough but the few songs that I have listened to I like it. Another album that I haven't listened to enough but I like alot is Kristeen Young-Meet miss young and her all boy band. I found that for $1 at Venus Records. Her voice/style is very interesting it has sort of a goth sound, jazz, opera, and punk sound. I also found Lili Haydn-Lili for .88 at sounds. I haven't really played it enough. I think I have to let it grow on me since some people on here seem to give her some ok reviews. I found Alana davis-Blame it on me for 3.99 at Sounds. I like 32 flavors but a friend of mine can't stand it. I am having a hard time getting through the rest of the album because it's kind of jazzy but I will give it a chance eventually. I can't stop listeing to holly McNarland-Numb which I found for 3.99 at sounds. It's very good but I didn't care for her picture of a dogs ass. I also got The dear janes for .88. The name looked familar to me. I haven't really listened to it yet. Another album that I mentioned this summer that I probably gave a lousy review about was Garrison Starr's 18 over me. A friend heard one of her songs on a cmj album and liked her so I taped some of her songs on a tape for us to drive to work. After listening to a few of those songs over and over she has grown on me. I let him borrow the album and now I want it back because it is becoming one of my favorite albums. Funny enough my friend got to see the sundays and her and managed to have her sign a poster for me. :) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 22:40:56 EST From: JavaHo Subject: Re: hex and harper?? In a message dated 97-12-14 01:52:53 EST, elan@access.digex.net writes: << Anyway, the discs were:Stormcock, Work of Heart, Descendant of Smith, and Loony on the Bus. I almost bought Stormcock, as it sounded the most familiar. Thoughts? >> I have Stormcock, and I would recommend it if you are a Roy fan. It has very heavily layered acoustic guitar. The vocals are very reminiscent of "Have A Cigar", although I don't remember the sequence of which was recorded first. I think Stormcock is very old, though, so it was probably done before the guest work for PF. I'm not familiar with the others you mentioned, but Bullinamingvase was good...I think that album was also referred to as Cricketer. I have these on vinyl, which tells you how many years ago I bought them. Considering that my turntable is collecting dust somewhere, it has been many years since I have listened to them as well. I may just be fondly remembering something that, on current listening, might make me wince. I don't think so, though. One thing I will say about Roy's releases is that I *strongly* recommend previewing them before buying. He was always an odd guy, and would pretty much release an album of anything that popped into his head if the mood struck him. Some were brilliant; some were...well...less brilliant. Good luck and let me know if you find any Roy gems. Java ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 22:23:47 -0500 From: Greg Dunn Subject: Re: music >I found sister 7-This the trip for .88 at Sounds. It's growing on me. >I really like the song "Perfect". I got turned on to this group right before the release of this album, and have seen them three times in concert since then. They are one of the most dynamic live bands I've ever seen, and the albums don't quite do them justice when it comes to representing their sound. Lead singer Patrice Pike has one of the most versatile voices in pop music today, and I'd have to write a paragraph on each of the four members to begin to express myself. If you like this album, hear their previous self-titled effort. (You may find copies of it and their first CD "Free Love and Nickel Beer" under the name "Little Sister"; the band underwent a name change a couple of years ago). >can't stop listeing to holly McNarland-Numb which I found for 3.99 at >sounds. It's very good but I didn't care for her picture of a dogs ass. Um... is that a promo? The full-length CD is called "Stuff", although "Numb" is one of the songs. Holly's "Sour Pie" EP was one of my top ten picks from last year. - -- | Greg Dunn | who am I, that I should be vying | | gregdunn@indy.net | for your touch? who am I; bet | | GregDunn@aol.com | you can't even tell me that much | | http://members.aol.com/gregdunn | Ani DiFranco | ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V3 #104 **************************