From: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org (ecto-digest) To: ecto-digest@smoe.org Subject: ecto-digest V3 #36 Reply-To: ecto@smoe.org Sender: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Friday, October 10 1997 Volume 03 : Number 036 Today's Subjects: ----------------- New Rainbirds album "Forever" [Marion Kippers ] Re: Loreena McKennitt's _The Book of Secrets_ [neile@sff.net (Neile Graha] Susan James news [neile@sff.net (Neile Graham)] B+N,BB,etc [kerrywhite@webtv.net (kerry white)] Re: indie stores vs chains [neile@sff.net (Neile Graham)] Re: indie stores vs chains ["J. Wermont" ] Re: indie stores vs chains ["Michael J. Doyle" ] indie recommendations, SF Bay Area?? ["J. Wermont" ] Rose Daughter (was Re: indie stores vs chains) [Silme@ix.netcom.com] Re: ecto-digest V3 #35 [sspan ] Re: _Portishead_ [Neal Copperman ] waterson:carthy [dee zed stroke zero one five ] Re: waterson:carthy [Silme@ix.netcom.com] Taking sides... [Paul Blair ] Re: waterson:carthy [Michael Curry ] Re: indie recommendations, SF Bay Area?? [The Heartbreak Kid Subject: New Rainbirds album "Forever" Hi, Last Saturday I was in a German music store, and in the store's magazine I noticed a short interview with the Rainbirds (Ulrike Haage, Tom Lorenz and Katharina Franck). They're about to release (or by now, have just released) a new album called "Forever" (out on 6 October on Rough Trade in Germany). The album is recorded in a modern high tech studio in an old factory in the Ardennes, Belgium, and it's produced by Jon Caffrey. They say it features electronic elements and a lot of strings (a string quartet is mentioned) and is apparently a lot more complex. Katherine Franck sees their music as "a modern movie a la 'Pulp Fiction', or 'Short Stories' from Robert Altmann. Several different stories happen at the same time and like in a movie one cuts to and fro." The album gets 4 out of 4 stars from the magazine. If anybody's interested I could try to translate the interview from German to English through Dutch or something. I noticed a German press release under 'RainbirdsForever - Presseinfo' on http://www.dfki.uni-sb.de/~endres/rainbirds/index.html (BTW, Neile, this isn't a Swedish Rainbirds page like the Ectophile Guide says - it's German). On this homepage are also tourdates for a German tour in January and February 1998. The official Rainbirds site www.rainbirds.com requires Java which I don't have. Of course I was in the shop on 4 October, so I haven't seen or heard the album yet. Ron and I'll go back there in a couple of weeks - if anybody's interested in a copy let me know, I'm sure we could work out a trade. Best wishes, Marion - ---------------------- n.p. Unni Wilhelmsen - Definitely me (thanks Yngve!) n.r. T.A. Shippey - The road to Middle-earth Marion Kippers Marion.Kippers@wkap.nl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 07:39:00 -0700 From: neile@sff.net (Neile Graham) Subject: Re: Loreena McKennitt's _The Book of Secrets_ Jeffrey C. Burka wrote: > and for those of us for whom _Mask and Mirror_ was a big >disappointment after the brilliance of _The Visit_? > >Oh, I suppose I'll buy it anyway...it is, after all, Loreena. But unlike >woj, I long for the days of her first 4 albums... Me, too, Jeffrey. I found _Mask and Mirror_ boring. Not sure _Book of Secrets_ is going to be much better. Something about the rawness of the early stuff and the new almost-lushness of _The Visit_ works for me whereas the last two begin to approach the New Agey Celtic sound of Enya et al. which my ears find offensive. I'm not sure what I was hoping for with her post-_Visit_ work, all I know is I don't find it fascinating listening like those first four. - --Neile - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Neile Graham ..... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ..... neile@sff.net The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music .... http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 11:22:32 -0700 From: neile@sff.net (Neile Graham) Subject: Susan James news Hi, ectoids-- Here's some Susan James news. Damn, I'm jealous of those of you in LA, Portland and NY! if you haven't heard her before, do come and check her out. I first heard of her from D2 on this list. She's an amazing guitarist and a great songwriter and has a powerful voice. I heard her live this summer, and though it was a little hard to hear her in the club because of crowd noise, she put on a good show. I suspect the friend who came with me to the show would have liked her better if he were more familiar with her songs, though--most of them, though they're catchy enough, require attention or knowing the songs in advance. It took me a few listens to "get" her album _Shocking Pink Banana Seat_ but I love it now! - --Neile >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 10:05:21 +0100 >To: susanj@pacificnet.net >From: susanj@pacificnet.net (susan james) >Subject: shows n' stuff > >Hello One and All! >Just an update as to what is going on show wise, etc. etc.: >First of all, I think I am fully rested and recovered from the Canada and >East Coast Tour - it was quite an adventure doing about thirty shows in >forty days! I can tell you now that my "roadie" for this tour was not a >roadie at all but a rock journalist posing as a roadie. Rock critic >extraordinaire Steve Stolder came along to write about what it was like be >a roadie and to do a club tour like this- several pieces will come out >because of it. I treated him just like I would anyone else I would hire to >do the schlep work for me. There will be an article in the November issue >of Pulse Magazine (put out by Tower Records) that chronicles some of the >strangest events and experiences on the road from Steve's point of view. >It's quite funny, and I'll um...er.. warn you now, you'll never want to >screw me over for money (or perhaps let me stay in your house!?!) after you >read of my little "revenge" against one sleazy club booker who tried to rip >me off! > I have some shows coming up in Los Angeles, Portland, and New York: > >This Saturday, Oct. 11th at LARGO, 432 N. Fairfiax in Los Angeles. Show >starts 8:30 or so. Also appearing is Colin Hay of "Men at Work" fame. I >dunno about you but I'm very curious to hear his new material and see him >perform - the owner of Largo says he's fantastic solo! Hope to see you >Angelenos there! > >Friday Oct. 17th I will be doing a show for the NXNW music convention in >Portland. Apparently, I'm headlining my show according to the NXNW >organizers, which means I go on ..um rather late. About 1 AM to be exact! >Sounds like a night a coffee night for me! This event will take place at >Artichoke Music on 3526 S.E. Hawthorne in Portland. Artichoke Music is a >music store that has a brand new stage and performance area they opened >several months ago. Appearing before me is Cindy Lee Berryhill who is >quite good so come check her out also. > >Then back to L.A. to play Dragonfly on Santa Monica Blvd. at 10 p.m. > >In November I will be doing several dates in New York : >Thursday November 20th I'll be performing at Brooklyn Academy of Music- I >will be performing around 8 p.m. (will get back to you on exact time) >before the world premiere performance of Robert Wilson's "Time Rocker" >performance piece, with music by Lou Reed. This will be quite an event and >I believe for the "show before the show" event that I'm doing, it will be >free. > >Another free show in NYC on Saturday November 22nd - at Arlene Grocery, 95 >Stanton Street. I do a set at 7 p.m. and after me at 8 is Matt Keating who >has a cool poppy record out on Alias Records right now. There has been >alot of flack from certain NY bands about Arlene Grocery's "pass the hat" >policy on paying musicians. I for one come from the coffeehouse background >where that's ALL you ever did to get paid, and actually, made quite a >great chunk of dough when I played Arlene's a month or so ago-so was quite >happy (and relieved!). Since they don't charge cover I don't really have >any resentment about having to pass the hat. What are your opinions on >this?? > >There will be one more NY show which I will update you on soon... > >In recording news, I've begun pre-production work on both my new albums - >the one with new songs, and my freaky instrumental album. I plan to have >both out for release by Feb/March of '98! Major Label Records! Yay! >Distribution is through N.A.I.L. (Northwest Alliance of Independent Labels) >and Cargo Records Canada. >Hope everyone on my list is well and look forward to seeing you at one of >the shows! >Thanks once again for all your support, you all are the best! >xoxo, >Susan James > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Neile Graham ..... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ..... neile@sff.net The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music .... http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 15:00:38 -0500 From: kerrywhite@webtv.net (kerry white) Subject: B+N,BB,etc Hi, In my necko dewoods, Topeky Cans-ass, we no longer have a mom+pop cd store. B+N , Best Buy and Backbreakers Music (for the year they were in town) killed them off. It's these guys or the Mall stores, ..ugh!!.. I go to B+N when there is no other venues for the cd I want, also for the bargain books (just got a new copy of a Clifford D. Simak pb for $1.) And the BB for blank tapes, and budget tapes (just got a cass of SMcL Freedom Sessions (for the car) and the Best of Al Stewart (w/ a LIVE Nostradamus!!!) for $4.99 each. K-Mart, Wal-mart, Musicland and Camelot (the mall stores ) and the above mentions are the full spectrum here,blah!. bye, KrW "Help me, Mr Wizard!!!" "Drizzel drozzel druzzel drome, time for this one to come home." also:zzkwhite@ktwu.wuacc.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 14:24:42 -0700 From: neile@sff.net (Neile Graham) Subject: Re: indie stores vs chains J. Wermont wrote: > >I'm just saying this to establish where I'm generally coming from, on the >issue of chains vs. indies. I do have strong feelings about it in general. >However, when it comes to CD's, my first choice for shopping is Tower. I >will buy CD's at local indie shops if I already know what the music sounds >like and I'm sure I want it. But Tower offers something that no other music >store does: you can return a CD within 2 weeks for any reason (no questions >asked) and get full credit. Other places *may* take your CD's back, but >usually on the basis of "buying back" the CD, rather than as a return, and >they offer less store-credit value on the buy-back than what you paid for >it. Of all the places I've shopped in my area, only Tower gives you a credit >in the full amount that you paid. I was curious about this because it hasn't been my experience at our local Tower Records stores. I asked a friend who had worked at one of them a couple of years ago, and he said that at that time they only took cds back if they were defective. When I recently bought a cd at Tower (which I generally avoid since their prices are always a couple of dollars higher than the local indies) I got a slip of paper about a change in their return policy. I actually didn't read the slip, so after reading Joyce's ecto message I phoned them. They said if a cd has been opened they will take it back only if it is defective, and then they will only exchange the disc. They will exchange or give a refund for an unopened disc with a receipt within 14 days. You might want to check to see that the liberal return policy you describe is still in effect at your local Tower. It may be that there are differing policies in different geographic regions, but that certainly isn't active at the local Tower stores here in Seattle. Worse luck--I might tend to shop there more often if it were. As it is, there is one indie store that puts new releases on sale as soon as they get them. We tend to go there on Tuesdays quite often. ;) Discs we're uncertain about we try to find used--you can listen to used cds at almost all of the stores that carry used discs here. - --Neile n.r. Robin McKinley, _Rose Daughter_. Damn I love her writing, but it is a little odd that she's doing a second retelling of Beauty and the Beast! n.p. The Sundays in my head. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Neile Graham ..... http://www.sff.net/people/neile ..... neile@sff.net The Ectophiles' Guide to Good Music .... http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 15:26:57 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. Wermont" Subject: Re: indie stores vs chains Neile Graham wrote: > I was curious about this because it hasn't been my experience at our local > Tower Records stores. Interesting - this may be a regional difference. I know it's not just my local store, but other Tower stores in the Bay Area offer the same policy. > You might want to check to see that the liberal return policy you describe > is still in effect at your local Tower. It was, last week anyway, when I returned a bunch of stuff. :-) They did change their policy about 5 or 6 months ago. It used to be that you could return a CD (*opened*, listened to, and not defective) up to *30 days* after the date of purchase, as long as you had your sales slip. But then they shortened it to 14 days. I still think that's reasonable! > It may be that there are differing policies in different geographic > regions That may be it. Although I wouldn't expect the Bay Area to have a more liberal policy than Seattle! I would've expected those two markets to be about the same. > Discs > we're uncertain about we try to find used--you can listen to used cds at > almost all of the stores that carry used discs here. That's not always true around here. There's a popular store around here called Streetlight Records (San Francisco and San Jose). They sell used CD's and they do not let you listen to anything first. I was considering something I saw in the store (SF Seals - I heard it recommended here, in fact), so I asked them if they'd play it for me, and they said, "Sorry, we don't play CD's in the store." All the while, a CD was blasting through the store's speakers. So I asked, "What's that we're listening to right now?" And the snotty little clerk said, "Oh, we play CD's, just not for the customers." Well, f*ck you very much. The problem with used CD stores is that you can't guarantee what they'll have, whereas with a new CD store at least you can expect them to have a certain inventory. Tower certainly doesn't have a lot of indie records, but I have fairly mainstream tastes, at least mainstream enough that I find most of what I want in mainstream stores. Occasionally, I have to look elsewhere for something more obscure. But the fact is, every single recommendation I've followed up on from *this* list has been located at mainstream stores. (That's not to say everything people talk about here would be available in mainstream stores, but the ones I've followed up on have been.) Joyce ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 18:34:53 -0400 From: "Michael J. Doyle" Subject: Re: indie stores vs chains At 11:25 AM 10/8/97 -0700, J. Wermont wrote: >However, when it comes to CD's, my first choice for shopping is Tower. I >will buy CD's at local indie shops if I already know what the music sounds >like and I'm sure I want it. But Tower offers something that no other music >store does: you can return a CD within 2 weeks for any reason (no questions >asked) and get full credit. My local "indie" chain, Compact Disc World (in North and Central New Jersey), lets you listen to any CD in the store before buying and will let you return it afterwards if you don't like it. I've turned back CDs up to a month after purchase. I can do this because I'm a member of their "Club CD" -- which entails a $12/year fee. The fee, however, has been worth the benefits, including lower prices on everything. On a final note, Compact Disc World's shelves tend not to have as robust a selection as their used bins. They stock only the latest Happy disc (presently, _The Keep_), but I've found _Warpaint_ and _Rhodesongs_ in the used bin, as well as stuff from Smitten and Rosewater Elizabeth. - - Mike Michael Doyle Mike's Midnight Movie Reviews maeldun@i-2000.com http://vidkraft.com/m3review =========================================================================== "Nothing is too wonderful to be true." - - Michael Faraday ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 16:16:18 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. Wermont" Subject: indie recommendations, SF Bay Area?? > My local "indie" chain, Compact Disc World (in North and Central New > Jersey), lets you listen to any CD in the store before buying and will let > you return it afterwards if you don't like it. I've turned back CDs up to a > month after purchase. > > I can do this because I'm a member of their "Club CD" -- which entails a > $12/year fee. The fee, however, has been worth the benefits, including > lower prices on everything. That sounds great! OK, I know lots of you ectophiles live in the Bay Area - can someone recommend a place around here that will do that? I'd love to know about it! I live about 50 miles from SF, so something like a 2-day return policy wouldn't work (I only get up to SF about once a week). But if there's someplace that would allow you to keep a CD for a month, or 2 weeks, and then return it for *full price* (I don't need cash - I'll take a store credit! Just would like to get back what I paid.) Or if you know of someplace in the lower Peninsula or San Jose area that'd be even better. Thanks, Joyce ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 18:47:25 +0000 From: Silme@ix.netcom.com Subject: Rose Daughter (was Re: indie stores vs chains) Neile Graham wrote: > > n.r. Robin McKinley, _Rose Daughter_. Damn I love her writing, but it is a > little odd that she's doing a second retelling of Beauty and the Beast! Yes, but this one exhibits much more mature writing. McKinley herself says now that Beauty was written when she was in very early 20's and that she probably couldn't have written Rose Daughter then. (I really liked Rose Daughter -- beautiful imagery!) And Dar and band were wonderful in Boulder last night! Ellen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 21:24:12 -0700 From: sspan Subject: Re: ecto-digest V3 #35 Jeff wrote: > and for those of us for whom _Mask and Mirror_ was a big >disappointment after the brilliance of _The Visit_? I can't imagine being picky enough to think one is brilliant and the other a disappointment... I guess she could have kept doing the same old traditional stuff forever, instead of creating an innovative and interesting new blend of musical styles... >(who notes that if Loreena follows the Sarah pattern, she's only two >tours away from playing basketball arenas... The Sarah pattern... would this be the 'put out several albums that pretty much bite* except for one or two songs, then a really good album, then another that bites*' pattern? (*'bite' copyright 1995, Bart Simpson Inc. used by permission) n.P. Knots and Crosses, Creatures of Habit ++ -dave- ++ + irc.Dal.net #Panic_Beach + + Maria McKee/Grey Eye Glances/Lisa Loeb + ++ ++ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 21:17:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Neal Copperman Subject: Re: _Portishead_ On Sun, 5 Oct 1997, Michael J. Doyle wrote: > Choosing "Portishead" as the name of the album seems to imply > they are a band pretending to be a band called Portishead. They are making > a fiction of themselves. And I thought it was just a lack of imagination! Neal np: dandelion wine - northsoutheastwest ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 21:06:01 -0400 From: dee zed stroke zero one five Subject: waterson:carthy also sprach Silme@ix.netcom.com: >I'm sorry to hear the poor review of Waterson:Carthy. don't believe half the stuff that mike writes -- he's a difficult listener (tm). ;) seriously though, i really enjoyed their set (meth and i caught the late set). i don't know what mike's talking about with norma's voice -- i thought she sounded fine and fit the music very well. yeah, maybe it may have been stronger in the past, but i don't think it sounded past its prime by any means (in fact, i thought she sounded a lot like kirsty mccoll -- are they from the same part of england?). woj n.p. sarah slean -- universe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 20:44:07 +0000 From: Silme@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: waterson:carthy dee zed stroke zero one five wrote: > > don't believe half the stuff that mike writes -- he's a difficult listener > (tm). ;) grin! Sounds like a challenge! :) > > seriously though, i really enjoyed their set (meth and i caught the late > set). i don't know what mike's talking about with norma's voice -- i > thought she sounded fine and fit the music very well. yeah, maybe it may > have been stronger in the past, but i don't think it sounded past its prime > by any means (in fact, i thought she sounded a lot like kirsty mccoll -- > are they from the same part of england?). Is Kirsty from England? I was thinking Ireland. The Watersons are from northern England. The liner notes on my old Mike Waterson album (vinyl!) state that he is from Hull and now (well, in 1977, at least) lives on a farm on the North Yorkshire moors with his singing sisters (Norma and Lal) and their families. Ellen, long-time Martin Carthy fan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 22:57:00 -0400 From: Paul Blair Subject: Taking sides... woj wrote: >>I'm sorry to hear the poor review of Waterson:Carthy. > >don't believe half the stuff that mike writes -- he's a difficult listener >(tm). ;) > >seriously though, i really enjoyed their set (meth and i caught the late set). I was there at the early set with Mike and I at least had a good time. I agree with Mike that the tunes were more fun than the songs, but I didn't have any complaints about the fiddle playing, and the melodeon player was really something. some time ago meth & mike both wrote (but not verbatim, because I lost the messages): "Winter King" ROCKS, or words to that effect. To which I add my hearty agreement. Susan's show was generally terrific, but I usually take a little while to get used to a new song, and this one grabbed me right off. I still think of myself as a relative newcomer to Susan's music, but I'm amazed at how many of her songs that I've never heard except at shows I know--not just that I know the titles (some of the titles I probably don't have right)--but I can even remember how all of them sound, which is pretty good for me (even though I have been to five Susan shows this year): "Words" "Bonny Boy" "Daddy's Little Girl" "Through the Bitter Frost and Snow" "Fortune and Gain" "What Did I Ever Do To You" aka "F* You" "Wheels of the World" "Seven Cold Glories" "Ballinaboula" (OK, *you* spell it) That's a whole album's worth! How many of these are going to be on *Through the Bitter Frost and Snow*--does anyone know? Are any of them recorded anywhere else? The Tuesday before Susan's show I also went to see Mila Drumke (for the second time in a week) at Arlene's Grocery. I really liked that show a lot--with the band backing her the whole sound was a lot more "ecto." Even after only having heard her once at the Hotel Galvez (and hearing the clips off the web) I found some of the songs already familiar. And I really like her and the band's cheerful stage presence. (But silver plastic pants??) I went out this week and bought *Illinois,* which I like, but I think the show was even better. I'm planning on going to see her again at Fez this coming Tuesday night. Glad to hear from Meth that the first album is good too. I need to get it. Finally, Jeff Burka wrote: >> and for those of us for whom _Mask and Mirror_ was a big >>disappointment after the brilliance of _The Visit_? >> >>Oh, I suppose I'll buy it anyway...it is, after all, Loreena. But unlike >>woj, I long for the days of her first 4 albums... to which Neile replied: >Me, too, Jeffrey. I found _Mask and Mirror_ boring. Yeah, I have to say I'm with you guys on this one. Most of *Mask and Mirror* didn't grab me. Cheers, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 23:29:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Michael Curry Subject: Re: waterson:carthy On Thu, 9 Oct 1997, dee zed stroke zero one five wrote: > don't believe half the stuff that mike writes -- he's a difficult > listener (tm). ;) Feh. ;p > seriously though, i really enjoyed their set (meth and i caught the late > set). i don't know what mike's talking about with norma's voice -- i > thought she sounded fine and fit the music very well. yeah, maybe it may > have been stronger in the past, but i don't think it sounded past its prime > by any means (in fact, i thought she sounded a lot like kirsty mccoll -- > are they from the same part of england?). Well, I still didn't like it... and I didn't think she sounded like Kirsty McColl. The first thing I thought when she started singing was "old lady voice", and I was still thinking it at the end of the set. Maybe she sounded different for the second set. For the record, I thought Martin Carthy's voice was just fine. I'd have much rather listened to just him and his guitar than to the whole ensemble. > n.p. sarah slean -- universe Ya know, I really wish there was a cd of this. *sigh* Remind me to listen to it sometime woj. Mike np: Peter & Wendy nr: Archangel by Sharon Shinn | Michael Curry / mcurry@io.com / mcurry@compuserve.com | | http://www.io.com/~mcurry | | Am I bitter? Do I sound bitter? -- Veda Hille | ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 00:08:40 -0400 (EDT) From: The Heartbreak Kid Subject: Re: indie recommendations, SF Bay Area?? On Thu, 9 Oct 1997, J. Wermont wrote: > OK, I know lots of you ectophiles live in the Bay Area - can someone > recommend a place around here that will do that? I'd love to know about it! Heh. The Bay Area is only just about the best place to buy cds in the world...:) It's not on ethe Penninsula or San Jose, but Amoeba in Berkeley on Telegraph Ave. (near the Cal campus) is simply excellant. They have damned good selection and prices, both new and used, including lotsa ectofodder. Umm, I'm not 100% sure about their return policy, but I think they give full credit for defects, 75% credit for any reason. Of course, there are millions of cd stores in the City. But, IMO, Amoeba is the best in the area. Heck, the best I've been to, ever. :) jcb. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 23:26:56 -0500 (CDT) From: "Mitchell A. Pravatiner" Subject: Richard Shindell interview Last Saturday night _The Midnight Special_ on WFMT in Chicago did an interview with Richard Shindell. Each week's show is available in an audio file on the program's own website, http://www.shout.net/special . The Shindell interview is in the third hour of a three-hour broadcast. I assume the audio file for last Saturday's show will be up until the next show, which will be this Saturday at 9 PM central time. Mitch ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V3 #36 *************************