From: owner-ecto-digest To: ecto-digest@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto-digest V2 #333 Reply-To: ecto@nsmx.rutgers.edu Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Thursday, 4 January 1996 Volume 02 : Number 333 The Ecto digest is now being generated automatically. Please send problems and questions to: ecto-owner@nsmx.rutgers.edu. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: damon harper Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 13:15:16 -0800 Subject: Re: categories & the guide fili pointed out: >However, hopefully the interface to the Guide will (eventually, if not >initially(?)) permit searching according to many different criteria, so >that people can look for artists/albums in one of the given categories, >or alphabetically, or completely randomly. The beauty of a computerised >system is that arbitrary divisions according to a category are not also >physical divisions which hinder your ability to search the information >in a different fashion... oops, yeah, thanks for reminding me of something i was going to, but kept forgetting to, mention. the genre listings are *in addition to* a huge alphabetical index that contains every single entry. so the sane way of organising things is not supplanted, just added to :) philip, i'm not too sure about divisions other than these two... certainly not for ages, anyway; it's taking more than enough time (and probably frustrating neile more than enough) just to get the basic entries done :P damon _/\_ Damon_Harper@mindlink.bc.ca __\ /__ "I'm proud to be a banker... Vancouver, BC, CANADA \ / Because I get to play with |/||\| other people's money!" http://www.dfw.net/~soulmate/damon/paukarut.html - Arrogant Worms ------------------------------ From: damon harper Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 13:33:54 -0800 Subject: Re: alanis morissette (was "my [kevin's] top 10!") kevin continued: >also, my "you hurt me, girl" characterisation was not about saying that >alanis' music is all about how men hurt her in relationships... it's >just that she takes that approach to everything, without (i think) saying >very much constructive, or even very much at all beyond "you hurt me, >society," or "you hurt me, parents," or "you hurt me, guy," or >"you hurt me, me," or whoever it happens to be this time. they certainly aren't *all* like this, but i'll concede that a lot of them are. actually, i'll definitely say that a lot of them are, because that's part of what i like about them. i find it an interesting approach that doesn't grate on me in the way it seems it does on you. of course you've phrased it negatively above, but rephrase it positively and you've got one of the things i like. and i think just the act of pointing out some of these things is constructive in itself; or, she *does* offer solutions of a sort, which you may not see as valid, but i can see them. often just knowing and coming to understand what the problem is, but in the case of "you hurt me, guy", yes, it is just "venting" :) anyway, it comes down to: i like the way her approach works, you don't. now let's stop, all right? (oll korrect? ;) >well, i suppose we can't all like the same things, or even think the same >things are even worth listening to (various genesis and erasure ramblings >deleted ;) -- although i am prepared to admit genesis may be worth >listening to, they're just sort of boring IMO) yes, there you go. and i'll truly refrain from saying anything about erasure... you didn't manage with genesis, i see ;) though really saying just *that* spoke volumes i'm sure. ummmmm... yeah. damon (whose frigging venetian blind is broken, not my fault, these stupid residence people had better darned well not make me pay for it... "YOU HURT ME, STUPID RESIDENCE PEOPLE!") _/\_ Damon_Harper@mindlink.bc.ca __\ /__ "I'm proud to be a banker... Vancouver, BC, CANADA \ / Because I get to play with |/||\| other people's money!" http://www.dfw.net/~soulmate/damon/paukarut.html - Arrogant Worms ------------------------------ From: Neile Graham Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 13:32:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: categories & the guide There are also two other indexes of entries that I'm preparing to set up. One is a contributor's index, listing all the entries that the various contributors have commented on. Keeping this has the added bonus of helping me keep email addresses somewhat up to date and people being able to check all the times they're quoted and be able to change & correction their quotes if necessary, AND if you know you have kinda the same tastes as someone you can look to see who else that person has reviewed. For example, if you are reading the guide and see that this guy woj seems to have great taste, you can take a look at the contributor's index and check out other groups woj has reviewed. The other index I've begun to work on is a country index for where the artist hails from. Most of the reasons I've done these indexes is because they're the kinds of indexes that I, as a user of the Guide, would look for. I know categorization is individual, but for me it really helps to see a list of artists that are considered to be doing kind of the same thing. There is kinda already a recommended if you like area, the Comparisons area, but the comparisons tend to always lead you to a main figure in the area and not to the more obscure people. Meaning in the Guide there would probably be loads of Kate Bush comparisons, but they'd all take you to Kate and not to each other, and you could never get to Susan Court from Sandra Lockwood or anything like that. This way there are more ways to get to the artists. - --Neile ------------------------------ From: Ken Latta Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 16:35:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Happy Happy New Year! Oh, Amy, let the lurkers themselves reveal.... >and the most confusing of all...... why my 22 year old roommate is dating my >34 year old ex-boyfriend (who just so happens to live downstairs). Recycling is really a GOOD Thing...just as long as you don't share a heating vent with the apartment below (but that might give you a way to put the Christmas present-tape recorder to the test).... >another incredibly stupid thing... this idiot I dated for a while said to >me, after about a month of steady dates, blah blah blah (you know the >routine) get this... "I thought I would love you more by now" .... >ACK!! needless to say.... I told the boy to get some tact, a clue, and hit You were very considerate; there were any of a number of snappy rejoinders that must have been tempting: "And I though I wouldn't be faking orgasm by now" or "That's not the only thing limp about our relation." Do people actually begin relationships with goals, or rather, goals with timetables? Maybe, I've seen lots of local news on the theme of "She trains Generation X how to meet the love of their lives" and the like. So if the goal is say to be married by Summer I guess one might have a set of milestones.... Oh well. Oh, as for the other question: > Is it Spring, yet? The low tonight in Ann Arbor will be around 5 degrees F so I'd suggest the flowers stay in the ground for a while longs. But Spring can be found in your heart whenever certain CDs grace my player. PS, If Happy won't tour will she come to party? Could we make her an offer she couldn't refuse? Kenneth Latta, University of Michigan 313.763.1479 313.747.3630 fax klatta@umich.edu, Ken_Latta@mail.uhs.umich.edu ------------------------------ From: spanglemaker Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 16:51:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: caught a lite sneeze so i finally got my hands on this, and can't wait to run home and listen. it's really exciting that there are actually 5 songs, though--i was getting really tired of teh 2 new songs for $10 ep thing that tori likes to do. got the nettwerk box set--the sarah and rose chronicles songs are great--i really haven't listened to any but the 5th disc, so more of a review later. sorry if any of this is ancient news, but my email for the last 10 days has mysteriously vanished into some postmaster void. chandra ------------------------------ From: abartgls@redrose.net (ann & alan brodrick) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 17:23:13 -0500 Subject: ecto-digest-request ecto digest request ------------------------------ From: maeldun@i-2000.com (Michael Doyle) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 18:09:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Re[2]: Okay okay, here's mine At 11:58 AM 1/3/96 -0800, VNozick@tribune.com wrote: > Every time I hear "You Oughta Know," I'm >jarred by the dissonant transition from verse to chorus. It's like she wrote the >song with two different, totally incompatible, styles. That's what makes it such a fun punk song in the hands of 1000 Mona Lisas. To me, their cover of "You Oughta Know" is the "slap" which Meredith prescribes. - - Mike Michael Doyle maeldun@i-2000.com =================================================================== "You sleep like a haiku: You're still; you move. It's that simple." - - C-Cat Trance ------------------------------ From: Ulrich Grepel Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 00:37:37 +0100 Subject: yatwl (yet another top whatever list) Hi! Here's my list of albums that stood out in '95 for me, in no particular order. - - Heather Nova: Oyster - - Heather Nova: Live from the Milky Way (or rather, except for the studio version of Sugar only on the US version of Oyster: the ltd. ed. double CD where both of them come in one jewel case ;-) ). Having seen my first HN concert in April '94 with about 70 other people (5 of us were Ectophiles plus SOs) I've seen three more so far, the last two in March/April 95 (about 1000 people attending each). I just love Heather Nova live on stage, but I also love her studio efforts as well. Enough said. Mari Boine: Leahkastin (Unfolding) Two aspects of this album are just excellent: the music and the recording. While Mari Boine's second album [Goaskinviellja (Eagle Brother)] lacked a little bit of the pure emotion of her first one [Gula Gula], the third one almost comes close to it. Not quite, but then there's the musical and technical quality to admire. I still don't know which one I like better, Gula Gula or Leahkastin. What you most definitely need for Leahkastin is a very good stereo, else you'll miss a lot. This is music you can't really enjoy if you let it run in the background. No, rather take your time and *listen*. Maybe even on headphones (haven't done so so far), but at least concentrate on the album. You'll be rewarded. Loreena McKennitt: A Winter Garden A late entry, but very well worth it. As every Loreena McKennitt release, this is music at its best. If you like Loreena's other albums and do not yet have this EP, check it out immediately! Her Irish-but-not-only-Irish style is just so much better as Enya (sorry to all Enya fans, I do like Enya as well, but not as much as Loreena), and this was also the only case of successful Ectovangelising someone: he was an Enya fan, I told him about Loreena, he bought an album (The Mask And Mirror) without having listened to it, and 4 weeks later, when I saw him again, he already had found and bought The Visit and Elemental. So, that's already it, at least for the top-of-the-top list. There have been other good albums in 95, but none of those I got have been as good as the ones above. Just to mention a few: - - Throwing Muses: University Did I already say that I like special packagings ;-) That's of course not the only thing I like this album for, but it just doesn't reach the high end of this year's list. - - Alanis Morissette: Jagged Little Pill Yes, I do like this album, though I already know that it'll have a quite short life. Its anger just works for me, though I really understand that there are people here who hate it. - - Enya: The Memory Of Trees I cannot say this is a disappointment, because I didn't really expect anything different. It's a pity that Enya doesn't seem able to evolve her music a bit. For me this already showed on her last album, Shepherd Moons. - - Bjork: Post It's a good album, but it doesn't work as well for me as Debut did (and does). It tries to be more musically challenging, with all those older musical styles mixed together, but for me Bjorks voice doesn't really work that way. There are a few tracks on Post which I like a lot, but not that many. - - PJ Harvey: To Bring You My Love PJ Harvey's music is a kind of music I cannot listen to while I work. This is because it seems impossible for me to concentrate when it's running. Anyone else got this problem? This is even more extreme with the 4-Track Demos CD (1993) from her. Nevertheless I like it quite a lot, for similar reasons as Alanis Morissette. So, that's really it now. I know there are many more good albums in 1995 that I've forgotten to mention here, though that's what I remember without going through my entire collection. A few other CDs I do not yet have (The Keep for example), so I cannot yet say anything about them. Bye, Uli - -- "Ein 32-Bit-Betriebssystem fuer uns?" - "Wozu? Wir haben doch zwei mit 16." [IBM ad promoting OS/2] "Bah, ich habe 4 mit 8!" [comment from Sven Wachter] ------------------------------ From: Kerry White Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 19:19:08 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Neile's Top Discs of 1995 Hello, On Thu, 4 Jan 1996, Neile Graham wrote: > > Chandra, Sheila -- Quiet, The Struggle, Roots and Wings, > Monsoon > > Sheila Chandra's voice moving from Indipop to the > beginnings of her stunning current work. Zen Kiss was just a bit austare for me. I really like Monsoon. Tell me more of Quiet, The Struggle, and Roots and Wings, please! KrW Commit senseless acts of kindness, and random acts of beauty! ------------------------------ From: Sue Trowbridge Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 20:37:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Grammy nominations/"heavy metal" BtC On Thu, 4 Jan 1996, Kevin John Contzen wrote: > > What's the difference between album of the year and record of the year? > this has always stymied me... Album of the year is an award for, as you might suspect, the entire album. Song of the year and record of the year are more easily confused. The difference is that song of the year is a songwriter's award, whereas record of the year goes to the artist and producer of a record (i.e. one song, not the whole album). Remember a few years ago when some 80-year-old geezer won the song of the year Grammy for "Unforgettable," which he had penned back in the '50s (Natalie Cole covered it with her dead dad), and took the opportunity to come out and bash rock music? Yeesh. I think the National Academy of Recording Arts & Sciences was embarrassed into nominating "hipper" songs/artists after that... - --Sue Trowbridge p.s. I just found a used copy of Building the Colossus in the "heavy metal" section of a local CD emporium -- I would never have noticed it there, of course, but it happened to be in the front and I glimpsed it as I walked by. And that's not even one with a monster cover!! I picked it up, since I had never gotten around to purchasing it due to the, shall we say, mixed reviews it received here on ecto. ------------------------------ From: 32 flavors and then some Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 20:37:37 -0500 Subject: Re: rotfl (was re: Okay okay, here's mine) lakrahn@imho.net (Laurel Krahn) sez: >I forget its exact origins, I first encountered it on online services (or >was it FIDOnet?) about ten years ago, maybe more. Not sure if it migrated >there from BBSes or FIDOnet or Usenet or Science Fiction Fandom. first place i came across the term was the science fiction roundtable on genie, so i suspect that last of those options may be the source. woj ------------------------------ From: Kerry White Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 19:37:00 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Jewel on VH-1 tonight Hello, On Thu, 4 Jan 1996, jeffrey hanson wrote: > For those interested, > > JEwel will appear "live" on VH-1's CrossRoads program tonight. > Check local listings for time. For how long, a song or a 1/2 hr? Topeka,KS has eMpTyVee, but not VH-1! Someone *might * tape a CARE package tape for the more unfortunate! KrW Commit senseless acts of kindness, and random acts of beauty! ------------------------------ From: David Dixon Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 17:53:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Grammy nominations/"heavy metal" BtC On Thu, 4 Jan 1996, Sue Trowbridge wrote: > song, not the whole album). Remember a few years ago when some 80-year-old > geezer won the song of the year Grammy for "Unforgettable," which he had > penned back in the '50s (Natalie Cole covered it with her dead dad), and > took the opportunity to come out and bash rock music? Yeesh. Yeah, but he did partially redeem himself when he said something to the effect of "I guess this just proves that you don't have to have a hernia singing a love song"-- an obvious slam against Michael Bolton, who had performed earlier that evening. D^2 ------------------------------ From: DrDave56@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 20:54:41 -0500 Subject: Out of Production I have two questions concerning out of production CD's that I was hoping someone could help me with. 1) I was in Portland, Oregon last year for a business meeting. As I was roaming the streets downtown one night I happened into a bar. There were only about ten people in the place (it was a thursday night). On stage was a single musician with a guitar. His name was Mark Alan. It was one of the most "aurally gratifying" nights I've experienced. The quality of his voice and the flawless performance left me speechless. Unfortunately the night was over too quickly and Mark just disappeared out the back door. The next day during a break in my meetings I ran down to a music store called Locals Only. They knew Mark and said he was from Eugene, Oregon. They had one CD of his titled "Crazy World Outside" (which I immediately bought). I inquired about others and they said he had one or two previous releases, but they were "out of production" and unavailable. Does anyone here know how I might go about getting a copy of these? 2) I don't get a chance to hear much in the way of good new music here in Spudsville (Boise, Idaho) so where ever I am and I hear something I quickly write down anything I can to help me remember and try to find it later. I have piles of scraps of paper with little notes on them. Everything from artist's names, to presumed song titles, to types of instruments, etc. Anyway, I was cleaning the other day and found one of these scraps. All it had on it was an artist's name and the word "violins". The artist was Raindogs. I checked and they released two CD's both of which are "out of production" and not available. First, has anyone heard them? What/who do they sound like? Second, if they are any good does anyone know how I might go about getting a copy of these? I am new to this list (less than two weeks) and really appreciate everyone's comments. It is about the only way for me to find new music. There are only two radio stations here that play anything worth listening to. One is the University public radio station and the other is brand new and trying real hard to balance good music with commercial success. My only comment is would everyone please use artist's full name. Some of us may not yet know who Dar, Jane, Tori, or Sarah are. Actually I do know them, but there are lots of others I don't (I am sure that I will learn as I continue - but till then.....). Thanks for the time and help, David W. Kesner (no I'm not a doctor - just a nickname) drdave56@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Kerry White Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 20:20:38 -0600 (CST) Subject: ROTFL Hello, Damon, Matt, et al, I am ROTFL w/ joy and giggles due to all the mail educating me. Now, STOP it, please, I've been inundated by learning. 8-^) KrW MXYZPTLK, anyone? ------------------------------ From: lakrahn@imho.net (Laurel Krahn) Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 20:26:05 -0600 Subject: Re: rotfl (was re: Okay okay, here's mine) At 08:37 PM 1/4/96 -0500, 32 flavors and then some wrote: >lakrahn@imho.net (Laurel Krahn) sez: > >>I forget its exact origins, I first encountered it on online services (or >>was it FIDOnet?) about ten years ago, maybe more. Not sure if it migrated >>there from BBSes or FIDOnet or Usenet or Science Fiction Fandom. > >first place i came across the term was the science fiction roundtable >on genie, so i suspect that last of those options may be the source. Yeah, I'm inclined to think it's yet another net.term that evolved from SF fandom. (It's really interesting to me to poke around the Jargon File/Hacker's Dictionary and see how many terms originated in Science Fiction fandom. There's a lot of overlap). I know YMMV originated in SF fandom and on SF-Lovers and the Fidonet SF echo. I'm pretty sure I first saw ROTFL in Science Fiction areas of Q-link and Fidonet. These things are hard to track down, but fascinate me... :-) ..................................................................... Laurel (lakrahn@imho.net) Krahn, Webspinner Virtual Home: http://www.apocalypse.org/pub/u/lakrahn/ signal-to-noise: http://www.apocalypse.org/pub/signal-to-noise/ ------------------------------ From: dbucak@netaxs.com (Deniz Bucak) Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 21:44:39 -0500 Subject: Deniz's Top Five Actually this is going to pretty pathetic. I really didn't buy that many disks this year (though I did use up all available space in my cabinet. Guess I'm hitting IKEA again.) So anyway, here are my top five. 1. My Scarlet Life - _Reliquaries_ Playful, fun, and very original music from Preston Klik, the ex-Big Hat leader. Lots of trumpet,flute and synthesizer (but not synthesizer sounding synthesizer), no I-only-know-the-power-chord guitar crunching. This album always puts me in a good mood. Plus it's got really cool cover art. Not likely to be at your local Tower Records though, you might have better luck contacting them via e-mail (cylus66@mcs.com) 2. Ars Poetica - _Ars Poetica_ Just plain good. 3. Rosewate Elizabeth - _faint_ Ok, this was released in 1994 but I like it a lot better than this year's disapointing _le petit mort_. Cocteau-influenced guitars with a dash of world music and the only bagpipe playing I've ever really enjoyed. Very introspective and moody. 4. Lisa Germano - _happiness_ and _geek the girl_ So I'm late on these too. I have them now and I enjoy them very much. My most successful ecto-reccomended purchases. 5. P.J. Harvey - _To Bring You My Love_ Gritty and tough rock'n'roll. Honorable mention - Tribe _abort_, Morphine _Yes_ Well it looks like my entire list is made up of female singers or groups with female singers. Guess that's part of why I'm on this list. - - Deniz dbucak@netaxs.com http://www.netaxs.com/~dbucak/ "You will have the tallest,darkest leading man in Hollywood" - -Merian C. Cooper to Fay Wray ------------------------------ From: Kerry White Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 21:13:07 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Out of Production Hello, Do you haunt the budget and "cut-out" bins in whatever stores you happen onto? If not, that is where a lot of oop stuff goes. Local talent that goes oop may be harder as they probably had a shorter 'run' than a larger rec co. would. "Used" cd areas, or whole stores, may have some, also. Good luck!! KrW It was the least I could do! And never let it be said that I didn't do the least I could do. ------------------------------ From: Kerry White Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 22:06:59 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Deniz's Top Five Hello, On Thu, 4 Jan 1996, Deniz Bucak wrote: > Guess I'm hitting IKEA again.) So anyway, here are my top five. Uh oh, do I dare Ask? > "You will have the tallest,darkest leading man in Hollywood" > -Merian C. Cooper to Fay Wray > "No, not Kereem!" ibid KrW "TV or not TV, that is the question. Whether it is nobler to suffer the lies of outrageous pitch-men, or to slit your throat with an electrocoated stainless steel blade"? WOI ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V2 #333 ************************** ======================================================================== Please send any questions or comments about the list to ecto-owner@nsmx.rutgers.edu