From: owner-ecto-digest To: ecto-digest@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto-digest V2 #228 Reply-To: ecto@nsmx.rutgers.edu Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Monday, 18 September 1995 Volume 02 : Number 228 The Ecto digest is now being generated automatically. Please send problems and questions to: ecto-owner@nsmx.rutgers.edu. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alana Hawk Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 22:37:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] Request Subscribe alana@uci.edu ------------------------------ From: piquet the cat Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 17:01:28 +1000 (EST) Subject: frances hodgson burnett On Wed, 13 Sep 1995 c601809@showme.missouri.edu wrote: > Somebody was talking earlier about Frances Hodgeson Burnett and mentioned > something they thought was called the "The Lost Prince"? For some > reason I think she wrote "Little Lord Fauntleroy", which would > definately follow that theme. *crawling out of my "oh, just let those emails pile up in your inbox" mode...* Yep, Burnett wrote 'Little Lord Fauntleroy' - another fond memory from my childhood. But there was another book... I'm fairly certain it was called 'The Lost Prince'... my favourite of all the books she wrote. Anyone else out there ever read this? From rainy Sydney... sherlyn et piquet (see Damon, I've been practicing my French :) =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= piquet the cat (piquet@geko.com.au). also known as sherlyn koo (sherlyn@geko.com.au). "... pray, in your darkness, for wings to set you free..." - Melissa Etheridge ------------------------------ From: gtp10@cus.cam.ac.uk (Dr G.T. Parks) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 95 11:20 BST Subject: Emma Christian Joseph wrote: > I heard an incredible singer, Emma Christian, on Mountain Stage > tonight. She was doing music from the Isle of Man. Verrrry > interesting -- like Loreena McKennit but ... uh ... crunchier. Yay! It's good to hear that Emma is getting noticed. She's a graduate student here at Cambridge University. Geoff Parks ------------------------------ From: awphili@xs4all.nl Date: Sun, 17 Sep 95 16:17:23 Subject: Re: biology vs. environment (was Re: Jewel) I just happened to stuble upon this post while reading the latest digest... I am not really back yet. I hope you won't mind me responding. Private email copies of responses to this are very much appreciated. :) Richard Holmes wrote: > ariel_b@pipeline.com (Ariel Brennan) writes: [snip] > >Which is my point entirely. ;) Utopia would be attainable, without > >much problem, if people didn't have the base, sometimes rotten, > >instincts that they do have. :) Which is why the theory that people > >are basically good, but polluted by society falls apart; society > >wouldn't be dirty enough to pollute anyone, if people were by nature, > >wonderous, predjudice free beings. > > Given that we do have these base, sometimes rotten instincts, or are > at least capable of using what instincts we have in rotten ways, do > you think it is POSSIBLE to construct a fair society, which won't fall > apart, that actively encourages a trend towards more utopian > conditions? The only solution I can think of is to change people's rotten instincts. :) Using Seth theory, a change in beliefs about people's instincts is needed. People trying to construct a utopian society should have the belief that people, all people, are by nature wonderous, predjudice free beings. In this way, the initial group of people can begin to influence society around them, and not be in competition with it. If there are several groups of people trying this experiment, they should cooperate. One thing that could provide the "glue" for this new society to stick together is a new kind of love I have been thinking about. Love should not make people depend on each other; it should actively promote the search for happiness in people, pointing out things preventing further growth in people. Well, I hope this works... a lot of work still has to be done. > If so, what would that society look like? I am not sure, but I think it would look much better. [snip] Albert :) \\xx -- * /~\__-:+-|=-@$$$-< ------------------------------ From: Neile Graham Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 13:34:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: CD Splurging (at last) Joe Zitt wrote: > I heard an incredible singer, Emma Christian, on Mountain Stage > tonight. She was doing music from the Isle of Man. Verrrry > interesting -- like Loreena McKennit but ... uh ... crunchier. Crunchier? Wow. Geoff Parks brought me a disc of hers when he came to visit a few months back. I really like it, but it's pretty soft and smooth. So she's doing something crunchier now? I would be very interested in this. Geoff, do you know anything about this? I've also seen her name recently on a compilation of (four?) Celtic woman singers. > Cordelia's Dad was also on, doing some folk material -- i understand > their electric sets are very different. Yes--really lively. I prefer their quieter stuff, though. Has more depth and originality to my ear. - --Neile neile@u.washington.edu ------------------------------ From: jeffw@triple-i.com (Jeff Wasilko) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 17:23:27 -0800 Subject: any ectophillic things in Denver? I'm going to be spending the next few weeks in Denver...anyone have any reccomendations for things to do, places to see, record stores to clean out? - -Jeff ------------------------------ From: THE OLIVE-LOAF VIGILANTE Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 21:24:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: various threads woven together Hi! Last week we taped 120 Minutes because we'd heard the video for Innocence Mission's "Bright As Yellow" was going to be played (which it was), and found that Alanis Morrisette hosted it. She did a very good job hosting -- maybe she should do that and give up on music. (Sorry, but I still fail to see what all the fuss is about... :}) But, we were quite pleasantly surprised to find that they showed the video for Heather Nova's "Walk This World" as well! Neatoid. Maybe we'll tape it again tonight and come up with another gem. :) Completely ignoring the feeling that I was coming down with a cold (which was confirmed this morning when I awoke with a particularly nasty one :P), last evening I accompanied woj and a couple friends to Maxwell's in Hoboken to see Throwing Muses. Air Miami opened (the former bassist for Unrest's new band), and while they weren't bad, they weren't particularly good or interest- ing either. Throwing Muses were excellent, as expected. The show didn't have the same unrelenting driving energy as the last time I saw them (they stopped playing in between almost every song this time), but the playing was great, the new songs sounded really interesting, and Kristen Hersh actually seemed to be having a good time. Maxwell's was packed with adoring fans, which seemed to take Hersh aback (you'd think she'd be used to it by now). In short, a great evening of music was had by all. Yesterday we received our copies of the HBP. Chip and Valerie, you two are indeed twisted and sick. I *loved* it. ;> Haven't had a chance to listen to the whole project yet, but there's some great stuff so far. Has there been an official response from Happy yet? (I wonder if she's sick of getting these tapes twice a year? :) Anyway, on to the replies: Matt noted re Pinky and the Brain: >This is truly the best _current_ animation series. Unless you count >The Tick, as well... Hmmm. We watched last week and weren't particularly impressed, though we are going to watch it again in a few minutes. We watched The Tick for the first time yesterday as well -- again, not particularly impressed, but we'll keep watching to get a better feel for the show. Right now I'd have to say the best animated series out there are the ones showing on eMpTV (of all places): Aeon Flux and The Maxx (the creation of Sam Keith, who was the first illustrator of The Sandman) in particular. And of course The Simpsons will always have a special place in my heart. :) (I think Smithers did it.) Fili replied re Happy: >She plays live more frequently than KaTe, anyway :) ... all things being relative, of course. ;> Allow me to extend a hearty welcome to Valerie Kraemer, Friday morning program- mer extraordinaire from the venerable WPKN!!! I figured we'd see you around these parts eventually. :) >I wanted to mention that the Iron Horse in Northampton, MA, has reopened under >new ownership. Yay!!!!! >Several ecto favorites will be performing in the next few weeks: > >September 21 Heather Nova and Ben Folds Five Has this been confirmed? Last I heard Nova's tour had been postponed a month so she could have a full band with her. I know Toad's took her off their schedule for this week, but Maxwell's still has her on the list for next Sunday evening. Anybody know for sure what's going on? >October 6 The Nields and Pete Morton I can't make it, but I exhort anyone within striking distance not to miss the Nields. >October 20 & 21 Jane Siberry!!! :) As I mentioned, woj and I will be there on the 21st, as will a few other ectophiles -- if anyone is planning to go, let us know! On to the subject of emotionally charged music: Laurel mentioned: >Christine Lavin's "The Kind of Love You Never Recover From" has been a >tearjerker for me. How about "Jane", from her latest, _Please Don't Make Me Too Happy_? That song just plain *depresses* me (it's about hearing from her best friend from high school, whom she hadn't heard of or from in 25 years, and getting together for dinner and discovering that her friend had turned into the type of person she had always vowed not to be when she was a kid... I don't know why, but that song is pretty powerful stuff to me). >Tori's "Baker Baker" and certain others, depending on the timing, can get to >me. "Baker Baker" never got to me until I saw her perform it live and I noticed how much it was getting to *her* as she was singing it (she also performed it directly after "Me And A Gun", which would have broken me up anyway). Then when I saw her perform it after she had just broken up with Eric, it got to me even worse. Knowing the situations behind songs can sometimes increase the intensity thousandfold, can't it? Matt contributed: >Actually, the way I can tell a song "moves" me, is when I get "goose >bumps". Oh yeah, I get that all the time. Loreena's "All Souls Night", Tori's "Bells For Her", Sarah's "Vox", several things by Kate... the list goes on and on. Valerie Nozick inquired: >A question for those of us who are music people. Can you stand dancing to >industrial music? (all beat, few, if any lyrics. The ones that exist are inane, >IMO). No. Nothing in any of the genres encompassed by your description inspires me to move at all. Usually when that kind of music is inflicted upon me I try to find someplace to sit that's out of the way and as far from the speakers as possible, and hope it isn't long before I can escape. But that's just me. :) Ariel opined: >Well, I'd say Ice Cream is kinda fluff, yeah. ;> But, usually, I think >Sarah's lyrics are really good, from parts of Touch, to Fumbling. Touch is, >yes, very weak at moments, but Out Of The Shadows strikes me as one of the >best lyrics I've ever read. "Out of the Shadows" is okay lyrically (certainly it's the strongest on _Touch_, all things being relative). But I think Sarah's strongest lyrics are the entire song "I Will Not Forget You" ("And I ran like the wind to the water/Please don't leave me again I cried/And I threw bitter tears at the ocean/But all that came back was the tide") -- melt city, every time. >Alternately, has anyone ever run across a song that's absolutely perfect to >a situation you've lived, in every detail? Yes. Kate's "Love And Anger" ("It lay buried here, it lay deep inside me, it's so deep I don't think that I can speak about it") and "Never Be Mine" (oh, let me TELL you about unrequited love :P :P :P) are just two that come to mind, but there are more. Ian implored: >Parenthetically, if anyone can tell me whether/where recordings of >the Reich counterpoint pieces are available, it'd be much >appreciated since, about an hour later, the tape fell out of the >Walkman without me noticing so I haven't got it any more :-( It fell out and you didn't notice! Geez, I knew Reich was minimalist, but that's ridiculous. ;> Back to Matt again... :) >While driving last night, I was listening to the local NPR station. >The program on was "Today's Performance" (or some such). At the time >I was listening, they were "showcasing" Anonymous 4. Performance Today did a thing on Anonymous 4? Cool! I used to listen to PT all the time when I lived in CT -- the NPR station there has it on right after All Things Considered. Martin Goldsmith is annoying, but he knows where the good concerts are. :) >I didn't realize the have four discs out, including a Christmas one. Yes -- _On Yoolis Night_. Run, don't walk to your nearest classical record emporium and get it. And pick up their others while you're at it. ;> >Wonderful! Beautiful! Haunting vocals. When I was "thinking" of >purchasing one of their discs, I tracked through "Ladymass" (I think) >and didn't want to buy it. Mainly because I wasn't in the "mood" for >madrigals/mideval (sp?) music. Medieval chant and polyphony, to be precise. They do it as well as anyone right now. Glad you discovered them -- now you see what I've been raving about! :) Valerie Kraemer wondered: >Has anyone else heard the music of Cesaria Evora? She is an >incredible singer (I mean once-in-a-generation incredible) who is >originally from Cape Verde but more recently from Paris. I've heard a couple songs on the radio ... really interesting stuff. I only heard the intro of the ATC profile, though. I'm not sure if I hallucinated this or not, but I think she was on Mountain Stage last week? Later, all... P.S. Between writing and uploading this, we watched another episode of Pinky and the Brain. Forget what I said above -- it's brilliant. :) I particularly liked the bit at the end where Brain sang all the anatomical components of the human brain to the tune of "Camptown Races". :> Meredith meth@delphi.com "There. *That* should make the little squirts happy." - Brain ------------------------------ From: Michael Matthews Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 03:30:02 -0400 Subject: Today's your birthday, friend... i*i*i*i*i*i i*i*i*i*i*i *************** *****HAPPY********* **************BIRTHDAY********* *************************************************** *************************************************************************** ****************** Troy Wollenslegel (tawollen@mtu.edu) ******************* *************************************************************************** -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Troy Wollenslegel Mon September 18 1972 Virgo Joe Zitt Sat September 20 1958 Will Hack for CDs Dan Riley Sun October 08 1961 Libra Neile Graham Wed October 08 1958 pen Quenby M. Chunco Tue October 08 1968 Crunchy Frog Mike Garland Wed October 08 1952 Creature_of_the_Night Michael C. Berch Wed October 10 1956 No parking Wolfgang Drotschmann Thu October 13 1966 Waage Brian Bloom Tue October 14 1969 spam Erik N. Johnson Tue October 16 1962 Handle with Care Kim Klouda Tue October 17 1967 Libra - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ From: abehrend@Direct.CA (Ariane Behrend) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 02:08:25 -0700 Subject: Alanis 'vs' Alanis Morisette Hi! Does anyone (particularly the Canadians on the list, since I don't think she got much attention in the States at this point) remember A.M. from the old days when she was just 'Alanis'. It's a bit of a blurr to me, but as far as I recall, noone outside of the top fourty market paid much attention to her at that time. She was kind of a Debbie Gibson type phenomenon if I'm not mistaken. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm somewhat surprised to see her getting so much 'serious' attention (ie. outside of those 'ignorant masses' :)). My first reaction to seeing her new video was "oh, give me a break, she added a last name, sucked up to Madonna, and now expects to be taken seriously!?". But then I was very surprised to see so many people whose taste in music I respect praise her on this list. Am I just biased because of her past?? My initial reaction to the YOK is "grow up and get on with your life." It strikes me as very 'childish' rather than mature or 'wise beyond her years'. But then again... maybe I should give her another chance, letting go of pre-conceived notions first. Taking into consideration the recent 'nature vs. nurture' thread, maybe she's just being true to her base instincts :). I guess I shouldn't judge her on just the one song either, but am scared to buy the album because I have a feeling I wouldn't like it (maybe I'm more of a Jewel-type, though I've never heard anything of hers). Richard: >>But, it really annoys me when Top-40-Alt-Tern-Nut-ive or Modern Rock >station >>DJs just try to dismiss her as "psycho music" and laugh her off... I was under the impression that she was still pretty much top fourty material. Am I wrong? All the top fourty stations seem to be playing her, and I haven't heard anyone dismiss her yet. >>I have her CD, and some of it is pretty deep in a no-nonsense, >straight-forward >>sort of way. Amazing. She doesn't mince words, but there is some wisdom >there >>beyond her years. OK, here is me, the cynic: Is it deep in its simplicity, or just simplistic? (I'm not sure myself, just trying to play devil's advocate :)) Does anyone remember her early days? Did anyone like her then? Does anyone think she's 'improved' since then? I'm not trying to offend any of her fans, am just throwing out some ideas, as I don't even feel qualified to comment on wether or not I like her music. It just surprised me to see her rise so quickly from relative obscurity to such critical acclaim in such a short period of time, and am interested in why and how this happened. Ariane. PS.: I saw literally the last 5-10 SECONDS of a Heather Nova video on MusiquePlus the other day. I was sooo choked to have missed it, as I have become extremely curious about her from all that talk about Oyster. What very little I heard sounded pretty good I guess :). Can't wait to see her on Oct. 15 when she'll be in Van. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Ariane Behrend ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Vancouver, Canada ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ The waves are perfect and the sun will always shine, ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ But there's got to be more to death than surfing all the time ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Dar Williams ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ------------------------------ From: ariel_b@pipeline.com (Ariel Brennan) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 06:49:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Alanis 'vs' Alanis Morisette On Sep 18, 1995 02:08:25, 'abehrend@Direct.CA (Ariane Behrend)' wrote regarding Alanis Morissette: >I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm somewhat surprised to see her >getting so much 'serious' attention (ie. outside of those 'ignorant masses' >:)). Hehehe. :) Not a surprising reaction; I'd be likely to roll my eyes if, say, Tiffany suddenly popped up doing alternative. But then again, if it were GOOD alternative, I'd probably get over the initial reaction. >My first reaction to seeing her new video was "oh, give me a break, she >added a last name, sucked up to Madonna, and now expects to be taken >seriously!?". But then I was very surprised to see so many people whose taste >in music I respect praise her on this list. Am I just biased because of her >past?? It's possible that you are, or maybe you just don't like her. Who knows? All I know is that a LOT of Canadians feel the same way that you do. >My initial reaction to the YOK is "grow up and get on with your life." It >strikes me as very 'childish' rather than mature or 'wise beyond her years'. Why? It's interesting to me that so many people say YOK is childish, but... you know, when a relationship breaks up, those are the very sentiments that go through one's head. I don't understand why people think it's childish, when that's basically what's going through THEIR head at times too. Perhaps it's because Alanis put it to actual words and music. I don't know. Anyway, when people say Alanis is wise beyond her years, they're generally not meaning YOK, I'd say, but more all of her album, all of her work, as a whole. No one song is really representative of the whole. >I guess >I shouldn't judge her on just the one song either, but am scared to buy the >album because I have a feeling I wouldn't like it (maybe I'm more of a >Jewel-type, though I've never heard anything of hers). Liking Dar and stories, you'd probably enjoy Jewel more than Alanis, yeah. :) >I was under the impression that she was still pretty much top fourty material. >Am I wrong? All the top fourty stations seem to be playing her, and I haven't >heard anyone dismiss her yet. Well, she's being marketed as alternative, but the fact is, she's really not pop *or* straight alternative, but some sort of hybrid between alternative, dance, pop and rock. Weird. :) >OK, here is me, the cynic: Is it deep in its simplicity, or just simplistic? >(I'm not sure myself, just trying to play devil's advocate :)) Judge for yourself. Here are a few of my personal favorite Alanis moments: I sang Alleluia in the choir... I confessed my darkest deeds to an envious man. My brothers, they never went blind for what they did, but I may as well have. ...we all had delusions in our head, we all had a thing or two to learn, we had to believe in something, so we did. - Forgiven (and finally) You like pain, but only if it doesn't hurt too much, so you sit and you wait to receive. And there's an obvious attraction to the path of least resistance in your life. There's an obvious aversion, no amount of my insistance could make you try tonight, cause it's easy not to, so much easier not to. And what goes around never comes around to you. - Wake Up Anyway, the point is, she's got her deepness going on, but she's not one for poetry and beating around the bush. >I'm not trying to offend any of her fans, am just throwing out some ideas, as I >don't even feel qualified to comment on wether or not I like her music. It just >surprised me to see her rise so quickly from relative obscurity to such >critical acclaim in such a short period of time, and am interested in why and >how this happened. Well, I'd say she rose in popularity for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is a damn good publicity agent. :) As for why we ectophilic people like her, I can't speak for anyone else, but in my case, besides her great, simple and to-the-point lyrics, I adore her voice and her very powerful music. >PS.: I saw literally the last 5-10 SECONDS of a Heather Nova video on >MusiquePlus the other day. I was sooo choked to have missed it, as I have >become extremely curious about her from all that talk about Oyster. What very >little I heard sounded pretty good I guess :). Can't wait to see her on Oct. 15 >when she'll be in Van. Walk This World? :) - -Ariel ------------------------------ From: "Matt Bittner" Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 07:36:58 -0500 Subject: Re: various threads woven together On 17 Sep 95 at 21:24, THE OLIVE-LOAF VIGILANTE typed diligently: > P.S. Between writing and uploading this, we watched another episode of Pinky > and the Brain. Forget what I said above -- it's brilliant. :) I particularly > liked the bit at the end where Brain sang all the anatomical components of the > human brain to the tune of "Camptown Races". :> > > Meredith > meth@delphi.com > > "There. *That* should make the little squirts happy." - Brain Too bad I haven't had the chance to watch this, yet. I'll have to put it in tonight, and finish watching it. My wife and I wanted to see who shot Burns, and since we never got to see last season's "cliffhanger", decided to watch the rest of that, as well. So, since football (been berry beery good to me) was running over, we caught the first "episode" of P&tB. Well, while we were watching it, the only thing I could think of was "gee, woj is going to HATE this", especially since I thought "Golly-zilla" stunk, big time. I'm glad it "got better". Did you catch the morning episode? Now that was a good one. Brain wanted to rule the world by becoming the "big cheese", and that's what happend. Wonderful, wonderful stuff. Matt - -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Matthew Bittner WW1 Modeler, ecto subscriber, new dad, meba@cso.com PowerBuilder developer; Omaha, Nebraska "It must be inordinately taxing to be such a boob." - Brain - -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ------------------------------ From: "Joanna M. Phillips" Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 10:06:51 -0400 Subject: Lyrics, melody, & emotions So many people have already spoken about this, and with much eloquence and insight; but here are some random thoughts, nonetheless. I have always tended to be a "lyrics person" (when lyrics are *part* of a song) myself, especially since I spent much time delving into folk and Appalachian mountain music. In many instances, in that kind of music, the melody is there just to sustain the story that is being told. My mother always said that that kind of music sounded "all the same" to her --*she* is moved by melody and rhythm and a good strong bass line . Going off on a tangent: it has taken me some time to get used to singers who just don't enunciate. Or if they don't/can't/won't, I =do= wish they would print the lyrics in/with the liner notes! I have learned to like the Cocteau Twins, knowing I will never be able to understand what Liz is singing about ...but that didn't stop me downloading all the (best guesstimate) lyrics from the Cocteau Twins Home Page . Heh. And the same with R.E.M. I have to be in the right mood to listen to either of these groups' songs, though (or anyone else who seems to purposely keep the listener from hearing/ understanding the lyrics): I sometimes lose patience with them. But back to what is most important in a song (that *contains* lyrics): I think, for me, it's the lyrics...or knowing what the song is *about*/what it means. I am not one who likes opera for the music first, then the story later . I want to know What's Going On! Music that makes me cry/makes me have "aha!" moments: "Bonny Portmore" - --everytime I hear this, it brings me to tears...but that is because of the plight of the trees. I first heard this song done live by a local Celtic band, Silver Arm. They had added a verse about a large stand of trees being demolished in present times. On first thought I would say it's the lyrics that do me in everytime...but if it were not supported by/framed in a lovely, haunting melody, I don't think it would move me as much. Then, of course, there is the fact that the first time I heard it, I was struck by the voice and demeanor of the lady singer/ fiddler who soloed on the verses...very soft, misty, and sad-eyed. If you can imagine it, this lady (whose name escapes me! eek!) looks like a melding of Joan Baez and Judy Collins! (with those incredible eyes) Loreena's version may be stronger and possibly more technically correct; but the way Silver Arm performs this is heartbreakingly beautiful. Other music: Iris DeMent's "Our Town" ... but of course, that's because I first heard it (and will always connect it with this in my mind) over the closing scenes of the last episode of "Northern Exposure". ::sniffle:: Mike Oldfield's "The Bell" on "Tubular Bells 2" (and a lot of Mannheim Steamroller's yuletide music too!)--this is more a feeling of exhultation and power! Makes you feel like you can *fly*! Music from Wagner's "The 'Ring' Cycle": when Wotan is taking away his favourite daughter's god-powers and putting her into a deep sleep--I broke into sobs the first time I heard this (good thing I was at home and not out in public! ). He did not want to have to do this, and you can hear his own sorrow in this music. It still really gets me everytime I hear it, with or without words. "The Ride of the Valkyries" (yes I know it sounds sooo corny because of use in cartoons for ages ): these are powerful women, riding their magickal steeds through the thundering stormclouds! "Siegfried's Funeral March": I like this/find this moving because I first heard it as background for the ending scenes of the movie "Excalibur". After seeing "Goetterdaemmerung" and hearing the music in its original context, I still feel the music fits Arthur better than it does Siegfried! Very stirring and powerful! And of course a lot less sad, with Arthur: he *will* return when Britain most needs him. Anyway, there are tons more music that moves me, everytime I hear it; but those were the ones that sprang to mind as I was following this thread . - -jo- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Joanna M. Phillips | "There are two ways of spreading light: fleur@one.net | to be the candle fleur@genie.com | or the mirror that reflects it." --Edith Wharton ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V2 #228 ************************** ======================================================================== Please send any questions or comments about the list to ecto-owner@nsmx.rutgers.edu