From: owner-ecto-digest To: ecto-digest@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto-digest V2 #227 Reply-To: ecto@nsmx.rutgers.edu Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Sunday, 17 September 1995 Volume 02 : Number 227 The Ecto digest is now being generated automatically. Please send problems and questions to: ecto-owner@nsmx.rutgers.edu. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mcb@postmodern.com (Michael C. Berch) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 22:07:19 -0700 Subject: Re: Wattage in the Cottage SBI!200HUBBARD!AMYD@lmbinc.attmail.com (Amy) writes: > ...I think in general > that Phil Collins is a pretty darn good singer for someone who used to > consider himself strictly a drummer - altho I'm not as fond of his > songwriting over the last few years (and what he did to his 2nd wife is > pretty sickening - in my again, humble opinion) - but he is an expressive > vocalist when he wants to be. Pardon my ignorance.... but just what *did* Phil Collins do to his second wife? Afraid I don't know much about his personal life, except that there is someone who is either his wife (or an actress playing her) in the video for "Take Me Home." - -- Michael C. Berch mcb@postmodern.com ------------------------------ From: "Stuart P. Myerburg" Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 02:23:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Throwing Muses I saw Throwing Muses this evening at the Variety Playhouse in Atlanta. For some bizarre reason, they returned here even though they already passed through once on this tour. Not that I'm complaining since I missed them the first time around. Air Miami, which is Unrest with a new drummer and an extra guitarist, was the opening act. I haven't heard much Unrest, but from my very brief exposure to them, I would say the new group doesn't sound all that different. One thing I did find interesting was that the band members set up and disassembled their own equipment. Then, when they were done, they just hung around, mingling with folks in the audience and lobby. It was kind of refreshing. After hearing David Bowie's _Low_ all the way through for the second time in one night, Throwing Muses finally came on stage. Kristin had *very* short blond hair, which she explained was the result of her dying it and then having it fall out. The selection of songs was much more varied than I had anticipated, but there was a notable absence of anything from _Throwing Muses_ or _House Tornado_. They played "Bea," "Mania," "Take," "Counting Backwards," "Red Shoes," "Ellen West," "Firepile," "Pearl," "Bright Yellow Gun," "Start," "Hazing," "Shimmer," "Teller," "Snakeface," and a couple of others I'm forgetting. The highlights were definitely "Mania" and "Pearl." They also played 4 new songs, which Kristin said they had just started developing. They were all good, but one in particular stood out. It was a bit wilder than anything off of _University_ and had a chorus that sounded like "shoot the shotglass." I wonder if these new songs mean another album is already in the works... Stuart ___________________________________________________________________________ Stuart Myerburg stuart@law.emory.edu Information Technology Services labspm@emory.edu Hugh F. MacMillan Law Library http://www.law.emory.edu/~stuart ___________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: mklprc@teleport.com (Michael Pearce) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 00:43:18 -0700 Subject: Re:lyrics/instrumentals; emotional To continue this thread, two items come to mind immediately: Jon Mark's "Songs for a Friend" lp (unavailable; that's why I put it in the taping project) and Kate and Peter's "Another Day." They both get me deep where I live, every time I hear them. But I find that I am somewhat unusual in that I cannot discern the lyrics of 90% of the music I like. Unless the artist enunciates very clearly, I only pick out every third or fourth word and have to read the lyric sheet to understand what is being said. I also have a hard time with thick accents and childspeak. If I like a song, it is the music that gets me, including the music of the vocalist who could be singing in Gaelic like Enya or Israeli like Noa. It is nice to read the lyrics after the fact; although I always used to sit down with an album the first time and read along with the singer. (Some booklet designers use such tiny type I need a magnifier to see it.) I have to go back a looong way to find an artist who is almost unlistenable but shines because of the lyrics: Bob Dylan comes to mind. Struggle through his "Gates of Eden" sometime. Because it was on the flip side of "Like A Rolling Stone," it used to appear in juke boxes a lot. I could clear a restaurant by playing it over and over. 8-) |^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^| | Please don't add "*@aol.com" to your twit filter. Thank you. | | mklprc@aol.com | "Give them a light and they'll | | mklprc@teleport.com | follow it anywhere!" | | http://www.teleport.com/~mklprc/ | -- Firesign Theater | - ------------------------------>((^o0o^))<--------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: "John Shepard (SQUID)" Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 10:39:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: My homepage is MOVING... everyone update your bookmarks! (Apologies for immense spam.) As of Monday, September 18, http://www.columbus.iupui.edu/~jrshepar will point to a "This page has moved" page. The student accounts (including mine :-<) are being removed, and that means we're all scrambling to find other places to hide our home pages. Mine is moving to http://www.iupui.edu/~jrshepar/ The Sarah McLachlan page is now http://www.iupui.edu/~jrshepar/sarah1.html My artwork page is not yet complete (I don't yet know whether I have room for the drawings on Indyunix) - just watch the page for details as they become available. Meanwhile, the main page is going to see some impressive updates by the time it makes its grand opening on Monday. Feel free to stop by the hollow skeleton of a page system that's there now, make suggestions if youy feel like it. But above all, UPDATE YOUR BOOKMARKS! :-) Thanks to all who've visited so far, all who've emailed with comments positive and otherwise, and all those gracious enough to add links to my page from their own. I only hope the fine tradition continues at my new home. - -John "Squid" Shepard, squid@mail.cpbx.net ------------------------------ From: Dave Cook Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 23:53:54 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: #indigo-girls On Fri, 15 Sep 1995, Yngve Hauge wrote: Hi Yngve > > Some people on that channel are not at all Ecto-like. Kicking people > off channels when they are quiet cause of work is not a very polite > way to act. So I wonder why Ectophiles are hanging out on that > channel - It's the last time I joins at least ... > Sorry this happened to you... I hang out on #indigo-girls quite a lot. Its not usually like that. Do you remeber the person that kicked you?? #Indigo-Girls does have a problem with guys entering the channel looking for netsex, but still, that is no excuse for you to be kicked off channel if you are quiet. > Sorry for bursting this out here on Ecto but I had to do it somewhere > and as it concerns with #indigo-girls I thought this was the right > place to send this ... > No problems, what is your nick?? I would gladly put you on notify so that I know that you are around, I quite enjoy talking to other ectophiles. > Sorry again, > Yngve (who is really pissed off at the moment) > Regards, Dave +------------------------------------------------+ | Dave Cook Perth, Western Australia | | Internet: davecook@yarrow.wt.com.au | | IRC on #Atari, #Ecto or #Indigo-Girls as Cevad | +------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ From: Yngve Hauge Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 18:25:31 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: Review and some info II The release of Jane Siberry's Maria is makes this posting pretty intersting. I visited the International Jazz Festival in my hometown Molde this summer and I heard some real great stuff. It really changed my view on the Jazz thingy. At the moment I'm listening to the canadian group Chelsea Bridge (Someone recognize the name from somewhere? Yeah, you are probably completly right. I think it is a tune by Duke Ellington). It is a quartet with the following members: Tena Palmer : Pennywhistle, Voice Rob Frayne : Tenor and soprano saxophone, Flute John Geggie : Acoustic bass Jean Martin : Drums, Percussion This is really classic jazz ala Duke Ellington and as I said earlier I was really impressed by this young quartet and I bought their first album 'Blues In A Sharp Sea' in the pause of the Concert. If I had waited until the end I had probably bought both their releases. Don't know what the last one is called though but if I stumble across it I'll surely buy it. Tina's voice is another story. She is strong cause most people would be completly exhausted after such a performance. She is high and low and at one moment she is doing a trumpet sound and the next her voice sounds like a completly other instrument. Her lyrics are wonderful as well. Her singing really moves me to tears. Just incredible!!!! The quartet itself plays incredible together. It seems like they know eachother very well and adjust themselves to eachother. I highly recommend their Live performances!! Regards, Yngve Neile : I could probably get some more info about this group if you want it for the Ecto guide .... (Holly Cole is already there so why not :) Next up: Zap Mama at Molde Jazz Festival Followed by: Jessica Williams at the same place and a somewhat longer review to the Lisa Germano concert mentioned in my first posting ... ------------------------------ From: Richard Holmes Date: Fri, 15 Sep 95 14:29:24 -0700 Subject: biology vs. environment (was Re: Jewel) ariel_b@pipeline.com (Ariel Brennan) writes: >On Sep 14, 1995 10:00:57, 'Richard Holmes ' >wrote: [snip] >>someone who murdered a loved one for a long time....). One trick is learning >>*how* to go "beyond base instinct", and another is learning when to trust or >>not trust the base instinct. > >Oh, absolutely. I'm in no way saying everyone should smile happy and >accept everything and love everyone (I don't even love half the people >I "should" love, much less everyone else!). That's probably because some people, for whatever reason, seem somewhat unlovable... especially if you don't know them... I would NEVER suggest anyone "should" love someone, tolerate, try to understand, not antagonize/attack, yes, but not "love". People who "love" everyone are either kidding themselves, or lowering their standards (IMHO). That doesn't mean we can't understand their motivations for seeming like such turds, or even identify with their feelings. I must say that I have a "like" for most of the people I interact with on this list, because no matter what their opinions and views on various subjects, for the most part, they seem honest and respectful. Not so for society at large. >But there's a big >differance between hating those who kill a loved one, and hating a >race without even knowing why, because of a misfired instinct. Agreed. >Yes, but society is the way it is BECAUSE of the hatred and fear that >is inborn in people. That's what I mean. :) And the reverse is also true, that hatred and fear are inborn in people because of society (as well as other influences), although the potential for change is measured over millenia instead of months. Evolution is a slow teacher, environment can teach much more quickly. >>We must examine society and biology, see how they interact. > >I'm talking about to start with. Too many people say "if there's a >problem, look to society". But, to find the root of a problem, you've >got to go beyond society, back to the reason society IS what it is. If >people weren't, by nature, the beings that they are, society wouldn't >be this way TO affect someone, you know what I mean? ;) >>society would take a LOT of work to prevent it from degenerating to >>our current conditions. >Which is my point entirely. ;) Utopia would be attainable, without >much problem, if people didn't have the base, sometimes rotten, >instincts that they do have. :) Which is why the theory that people >are basically good, but polluted by society falls apart; society >wouldn't be dirty enough to pollute anyone, if people were by nature, >wonderous, predjudice free beings. Given that we do have these base, sometimes rotten instincts, or are at least capable of using what instincts we have in rotten ways, do you think it is POSSIBLE to construct a fair society, which won't fall apart, that actively encourages a trend towards more utopian conditions? If so, what would that society look like? To be honest, I have a great deal of difficulty imagining what would work in the general case. It seems that a group of self-selecting, similar-thinking individuals who share similar philosophies can sometimes insulate themselves from the rest of the world at large, and provided that they can keep the insulation AND survive (i.e., attain the resources necessary for existance witthin the larger socio-political climate), and provide an enclave of utopian existance for some finite period of time. It doesn't seem sustainable through philosophical changes of the members, or scalable to larger than a few tens to a few hundreds of people. Any comments to the contrary, or even supporting, these statements would be most welcome. >-Ariel - -Richard ------------------------------ From: Brian Bloom Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 17:05:52 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Seattle, Oct 14-17-23? Hola ectobuddies! I'm considering a trip to Seattle on October 14th (my birthday) and (if I decide to go for this) would be in town thru either Tuesday the 17th or Monday the 23rd. Any cool goings on that I should know about? I'm on an amazingly tight budget (the only reason the trip is even happening is a friend offered to buy the plane ticket for my gift) but have such a craving for Seattle that I have a compelling need to go. (See what you started, Doug?) ;) This will be my friend Fred's first time to see Seattle and I'm hoping to show him what a cool place it is. (well, *I* think it is..) So what's our Seattle area ectophile headcount up to these days? br!an the moo-man - -- __ ____ __ ____ __ __ (__==__) /\ \ / \_\ / /\ / \ \ / |\ / /\ (oo) ( moo.) / \_\ / /\ |_| / / /| /\ \ \ / ||/ / / /-------\/ -' / /\ | |\ \/ /_/_ / / / \ \/ \ \ / |/ / / / | U.T.|| br!an / \/ |_| \ __ \_\ /_/ / \ /\ \_\ / /| / / * ||----|| bloom / /\ ./_/ \ \ \/_/_\_\/ \ \ \/_// / | / / ^^ ^^ \ \/ |_| \ \_\ /_/\ \ \_\ /_/ /|_/ / brianb@intex.net \__/_/ \/_/ \_\/ \/_/ \_\/ \_\/ http://www.intex.net/bb/ "En la tierra de ciegos, el ojete es rey" - Spanish proverb ------------------------------ From: Richard Holmes Date: Fri, 15 Sep 95 15:56:31 -0700 Subject: Alanis: two versions of cd Hi all! Just noticing the "bonus track" on Alanis Morissette's Jagged Little Pill cd, and that a coworker has a different "incarnation" of said bonus track than I do.... When I stick my cd in, it shows 12 tracks, and the 12th has a "hidden" bonus track at the end... My coworker's cd shows 13 tracks, and the 13th is a "repeat" of "You Oughta Know", which seems pretty similar to the other track (same length), but seems to have (at least) an additional percussive sound(s) at the ending of the song, instead of just fading.... followed by a similar, shorter version of the "hidden" track "sub-hidden" after some silence.... in other words, the bonus track has a bonus track! The labeling is identical, as is the order number, etc. However, the CD audio player notices they have different serial number IDs coded into the cd format, 'cuz my song titles didn't show up for his cd! Does anyone know which version is more common? Why didn't they make a distinction in the labeling? I really hate it when they do that! Mine was on order before the cd arrived in the store, so I may just have a "beta version".... but it is labeled the same... Any comments or answers? Which version do YOU have? - -Richard. ------------------------------ From: "Gregory N Bossert" Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 18:24:32 -0700 Subject: An Announcement Concerning the List Your occasionally humble pseudo-moderator and Ecto factotum has, in the spirit of the american Manifest Destiny, raised the cry of Footah under new and cloudless skies; in short, I have moved to Sunnyvale, California. (Which place proves to be both Sunny and nestled between hills -- an early example of truth in advertising...) The commute to Rutgers University from my new abode being Tedious, I have also undertaken employment with Silicon Graphics, Incorporated, a supplier of UNIX-based computer systems with a (well-deserved) Reputation for Excellence in graphics applications -- such applications including the dinosaurs from Jurassic Park, and indeed Many of the Special Effects seen in movies and video games today. SGI is based in Mountain View, which has, in fact, Vistas of lofty peaks to three side -- further testament to the forthright honesty and astounding lack of imagination of my frontier predecessors. In Conjunction with this physical and occupational relocation, I have begun the Virtual move of Ecto to a new and Independent home. In pursuance of this goal, I have obtained the rights to the Ecto.org domain, and should in a short period of time have procured the necessary hardware and network connectivity with which to build a warm, fuzzy, and quite truthfully Blue (for the SGI Indy series is no other color) home for Ecto and all its siblings (innocence-mission, suddenly-tammy, fegmaniax, etc.) It is my Intent to make Ecto.org a resource for information and distribution of independent, artist-owned publishing. Music will of course be the prime Focus, and the Ecto list most of all. In addition to the list and Web archives, I can once again make FTP and mail-access archives available. Resources will be available for Ecto list-member applications as well. I also hope to increase the number of mailing lists and Web documents dedicated to independent or low-exposure musicians (i.e. all those outside the US/UK mainstream): please contact me with Ideas and Proposals. I also plan to provide resources for independent publishing efforts outside of music. The Comic Book industry is home to a number of important and interesting examples of Independent publishing and Artist Rights, as well as unfortunate cases of the Suppression of such efforts by major Corporatate entities. The field of Computer Software also contains fascinating and successful Projects by independent producers, developed and distributed in the face of Horrendously large and Powerful Corporations. It is my hope that the experiences in these various arenas may be inter-applicable. At this time, I expect that a month or more will pass before ecto.org is ready to host its namesake list; it is thus Not necessary to Panic or fear for the state of one's subscription. When the time for the Move is upon us, I will give ample notice. Until that time, the rutgers address for administrative tasks are valid: ecto-request@nsmx.rutgers.edu ecto-digest-request@nsmx.rutgers.edu I may be reached (for Ecto Business) at: owner-ecto@nsmx.rutgers.edu owner-ecto-digest@nsmx.rutgers.edu or for personal Correspondance at: bossert@corp.sgi.com I thank you all for your rhetorical Patience. With footahs most sincere, I remain - -greg - -- - -- greg bossert silicon graphics, inc. -- - -- bossert@corp.sgi.com bossert@ecto.org -- - -- i have never been afraid to change -- Happy -- - -- the circumstances of the world -- Rhodes -- ------------------------------ From: gregdunn@indy.net (Greg Dunn) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 23:08:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Jewel (and biology vs. environment) Whoo! This is getting long... :) Sorry I've been away for a couple of days; I wasn't trying to dodge the conversation, honest! I'll make one more response and then stop flooding ecto with my ravings. :) >Re: Simplistic verse >>I wouldn't say it *never* helps, because it always offers a perspective. >>However, simplistic answers seldom work in the general case... too many >>variables. I agree, you don't want to take a simplistic analysis as the only possible answer. It's important to go back to basics, try to find a solution, and only then look for more complex and involved answers. Occam's Razor, applied with a judicious and light touch. >... there's a big differance between >hating those who kill a loved one, and hating a race without even knowing >why, because of a misfired instinct. >... society is the way it is BECAUSE of the hatred and fear that is >inborn in people. That's what I mean. :) > >>We must examine society and biology, see how they interact. I still feel that we have to be taught to hate people who have never harmed us, by example. I grew up in a town where racism (as an example) was subtle and pervasive; I didn't have a clue that black people were any different from white people until peers and relatives made it obvious by their attitudes that they felt that way. The thought of inborn racism or discrimination against external characteristics still boggles me, because I never would have been aware of racist thought patterns had they not been thrust at me from all sides. My daughter, who grew up in a much more tolerant environment, is even more fair-minded than I am (no, I didn't propagandize her at all). >>IMHO, utopia is unattainable, but worth striving towards. Any utopia-like >>society would take a LOT of work to prevent it from degenerating to our >current >>conditions. > >Which is my point entirely. ;) Utopia would be attainable, without much >problem, if people didn't have the base, sometimes rotten, instincts that >they do have. :) Which is why the theory that people are basically good, >but polluted by society falls apart; society wouldn't be dirty enough to >pollute anyone, if people were by nature, wonderous, predjudice free >beings. I don't blame society -- but I feel strongly that a small number of people introduce concepts and behavior patterns into society in the hope of affecting larger numbers. Look at the fashion industry; record companies; the auto manufacturers; the soft drink bottlers; etc. etc. Without passing judgement on the validity of their value systems (or the goodness or badness of their choices!), it's still apparent that small numbers of people are making decisions for large numbers of people, and seldom doing anything but giving them a small number of choices out of a large number of possible choices. In short, I think society as a whole can be fairly benign and still be riddled with bad actors who (intentionally or otherwise) sow seeds of discord and discontent which bring society down a notch or two. I'll back off at this point to let some music discussion happen; thanks for keeping this at an adult level :) :) - -- | Greg Dunn | "Information is not knowledge; | | GregDunn@aol.com | knowledge is not wisdom; | | gregdunn@indy.net | wisdom is not truth." | | Greg@gdunn.nawc-ad-indy.navy.mil | -- Frank Zappa | ------------------------------ From: gregdunn@indy.net (Greg Dunn) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 01:02:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Alanis: two versions of cd >My coworker's cd shows 13 tracks, and the 13th is a "repeat" of "You >Oughta Know", .... in other words, the bonus track >has a bonus track! My daughter and I both have this version; don't know which is more common. We bought our copies about 2 months ago. - -- | Greg Dunn | "Information is not knowledge; | | GregDunn@aol.com | knowledge is not wisdom; | | gregdunn@indy.net | wisdom is not truth." | | Greg@gdunn.nawc-ad-indy.navy.mil | -- Frank Zappa | ------------------------------ From: "valerie kraemer" Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 20:36:27 +0000 Subject: cesaria evora Has anyone else heard the music of Cesaria Evora? She is an incredible singer (I mean once-in-a-generation incredible) who is originally from Cape Verde but more recently from Paris. I've recently heard her new, self-titled CD, which is on the Nonesuch label. She is in her 50s and has a melancholy spirit and a deep, velvety voice that has been tempered by whiskey and cigarettes. The first time I heard her I was reminded of the late Violetta Parra of Chile. There was an article about her this past week on ATC. (I picked up the whiskey and cigarettes part from that article.) She will be doing two shows (7:30 and 10:00) this coming Thursday (Sept. 21) at the Bottom Line. Valerie Kraemer valkraemer@igc.org WPKN-FM, Bridgeport, CT ------------------------------ From: "Joseph Zitt" Date: Sun, 17 Sep 1995 00:09:09 +0000 Subject: CD Splurging (at last) Whee! I've gone nuts at the CD stores yesterday and today and picked up a whole lot of stuff I'd been wanting. I kept myself from complete bankruptcy by only getting stuff I'd wanted for a while, and avoiding impulse buys. The haul: Jane Siberry: Maria Lisa Gerard: The Mirror Pool Aural Gratification: Volume 1 Philip Glass/Robert Wilson: Einstein on the Beach (Nonesuch recording) System 7: System 7 Miranda Sex Garden: Gush Forth My Tears (single) Coolio:Gangsta's Paradise (single) U2: The Joshua Tree Various: Tonnage The only ones I've listened to so far are disc 1 of "Einstein on the Beach", and the Lisa Gerard, which is a knockout, especially in the orchestral tracks, which remind me a lot of Gorecki, but are more varied. I've been checking out the various Dallas CD stores. Of the non-chains, Bill's has the biggest selection, but a serious attitude problem -- the only way to find out prices is to asks the guy at the front counter ("Bill"). They wanted $16.99 apiece for used CDs found for half that at other stores. No thanks. But they *were* the only one to carry the AGV1 disc. I'm still trying to find a store that carries a reasonable selection of Cage, Feldman, Young, Conrad, and all that. Maybe we need a Tower out here -- I'm surprised that there isn't one. I heard an incredible singer, Emma Christian, on Mountain Stage tonight. She was doing music from the Isle of Man. Verrrry interesting -- like Loreena McKennit but ... uh ... crunchier. Cordelia's Dad was also on, doing some folk material -- i understand their electric sets are very different. And now back to Lisa Gerard again.. Aahhhhhh.... - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Organizer, SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \|| |/Joe Zitt's Home Page\| ------------------------------ From: Alana Hawk Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 22:36:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [none] Request Unsubscribe eahu157@ea.oac.uci.edu ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V2 #227 ************************** ======================================================================== Please send any questions or comments about the list to ecto-owner@nsmx.rutgers.edu