From: owner-ecto-digest To: ecto-digest@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto-digest V2 #188 Reply-To: ecto@nsmx.rutgers.edu Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Thursday, 10 August 1995 Volume 02 : Number 188 The Ecto digest is now being generated automatically. Please send problems and questions to: ecto-owner@nsmx.rutgers.edu. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vickie the Ectophile Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 12:49:06 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: My condolences to Deadheads On Thu, 10 Aug 1995, David Koehler wrote: > I think Vickie has just demonstated the Generation Gap. I mourned for Kurt and I mourn for Jerry. And I wasn't into either group's music. It's not a generation gap thing. It's a "someone is dead and people are grieving" thing. And it works no matter if it's a 4-year old in Chicago or a 70-year old man in Sarajevo or a 25-year old woman in India or a 53-year old multimillionaire in Marin County. People are grieving and it's the people left behind who deserve the most respect. > I certainly won't miss the GDead one iota. I won't either, but I still feel bad for those who will. - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Vickie Mapes ectoMUSH irc/#ecto "My ears are lucky to hear vickie@wwa.com alt.music.ecto these glorious songs" HR _________ "Imagination sets in, then |_ _ | _ The Happy Rhodes mailing list all the voices begin" KB |__|_ ||_| ecto-request@nsmx.rutgers.edu - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Searching for Happy Rhodes reviews, articles, interviews, mentions - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ From: mapravat@Prairienet.org (Mitchell A. Pravatiner) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 95 13:03:01 CDT Subject: An adaptation in tribute The following paraphrase of the ending of Dion's "Abraham, Martin and John" came to me as I was watching _Nightline_ last night: Has anybody here Seen my old friend Jerry? Can you tell me Where he's gone? I thought I heard him jamming Up on a hill With Kurt, and Elvis, and John Mitch ------------------------------ From: "JOHN SHEPARD (CALAMARI)" Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 14:21:18 -0500 Subject: Re: ecto-digest V2 #186 From: Kate_Tabasko@transarc.com > >Jerry Garcia died today. Although the Grateful Dead probably don't >classify as ectophilic music for most of us, I doubt many of us >would begrudge the Dead their place in musical history. The world >won't be the same without "Cherry Garcia"'s namesake. > >Requiescat in Pace. > >- -- Kate Yeah, I'm not even remotely a Deadhead, but the news depressed me. Think about how this event has changed the world: never again will we hear a teenager say "I'm going to quit school and follow the Grateful Dead." It's like a thin but omnipresent layer of society has been pulled out, like a tablecloth from under silverware; I'm strangely put in mind of the line from Apollo 13: "from this moment on, we live in a world where men have walked on the moon." From this moment on, we live in a world without the Grateful Dead. Wonder what this will do to Happy, knowing that Jerry Garcia died on her birthday. From: lakrahn@imho.net (Laurel Krahn) > >:-( I don't consider myself a deadhead, but I love many Grateful Dead songs >and have many friends who are serious Dead fans. Never got to see them >play, always kindof wanted to at least once. Enjoyed the Jerry Garcia Band >stuff, too... I'd probably have wanted to see the Dead in concert sometime, exc ept the idea of driving home on a marijuana buzz doesn't thrill me particularly... Right now I see two possibilities: o The remaining Dead will change their name and continue touring. To keep the name Grateful Dead now is to lessen the legacy of the Jerryman. o Pfish (sp?) will pick up where the Dead left off. Why am I even posting on this subject? I've never given a damn about GD until now... :-/ >> Problems at several recent concerts drew headlines. At a concert >>in Indiana, a crush of gate crashers led to a series of arrests and >>the cancellation of the following night's show. A few days later The story I'd heard: rumors had circulated among the fans that this would be the last Dead tour, and so those without tickets knew it would be their last chance. The scary thing? THEY WERE RIGHT. I remember shortly after that riot referring to the fence behind the Deer Creek pavillion as the Jerry Garcia Memorial Fence; seems that wass either prophetic or in bad taste or both. >>after a concert in St. Louis, a deck collapsed during a rainstorm >>at a campground used by Deadheads, and more than 100 were injured. >> The Dead's most recent performance was July 9 at Chicago's >>Solider Field. > >Laurel (lakrahn@imho.net) Krahn, Webspinner >Virtual Home: http://imho.net/~lakrahn/index.html >IMHO Productions: Internet Consulting, Training, & Web Design From: RedGtrGirl@aol.com > >WARNING: Amy's crabby, opinionated, and bizarre post ahead - but some of you Yeah... so what else is now? :-) >might understand so that's why I'm venting here... :-/ > >Today has really been a bad neurotransmitter day for me (a neurotransmitter >is one of those little chemicals in your brain that regulate your moods...) > The mail system at work has gone south again (I can not remember it ever >being this bad) so I'm getting about one post a day at my "free" internet >address. It's after 5 and I'm typing offline at my desk via my AwOl account. > >For those of you still reading - I had official business on AOL today >downloading stuff for work i.e. Quark Xpress stuff - and decided to lurk in >the so-called chat rooms. I spent 3 minutes there before it dawned on me >that most of the people there were there for cybersex. 2 different guys >asked me if RedGtrGirl stood for "red garter girl" I tersely replied "noooo, >not last time I checked - I think it stands for "guitar" not "garter"" and >quickly backed out. What the hell are those guys thinking doing you- know- Don't even talk to them: just exit and leave them hanging on a climax. >what while they are at work (sticky keyboards!) ? I felt like asking the guy Maybe not the keyboards, but IO'd be careful those disk drives if I were you... :-O >for his credit card number if I was going to be providing erotic >entertainment! SHEESH! don't we have enough problems as a society the way it >is without more excuses to avoid human contact/relationships. It seems that >the more I read about this whole phenomena of the IRC and various That's the big reason I'm almost never on IRC. The only decent channel is #ecto, and it's deserted every time I'm there; # babylon5 and #amiga are never anywhere remotely near topic ( except maybe right after the Commodore auction, #amiga and #escom beat #oklahoma's traffic record). >incarnations of such - the potential for people to be completely cut off from >live human contact, and opt for the comfort and safety of their living rooms >or desks.....That whole exchange sort of really creeped me out... Like that >Kate song "Deeper Understanding". Each day for me is a challenge NOT to >become hermetic - I push myself to stay in touch with friends and family - I I function alone, about as well as I function with people. When I'm writing, for instance,. I can't work with people watching. But I do need that interaction... >force myself to answer the phone sometimes because sometimes it is soooooo >damn easy to crawl into my living room, turn off the phone, pick up the >guitar, or the bead work or book, and not move - for weekends at a time. I If I don't get out amongst _some_ kind of human on a given day, the day feels like it's gone to hell. >too have had my own run-ins with "Delirium" and "Despair" (see also Sandman) Delirium - as in gates of? :-) >- - who occasionally drop by for tea - but eventually they leave - I throw them >out. However, there is something too easy about computer chat rooms - too >easy to avoid the tough part of human interaction. Too easy to avoid the >"work" (and sometimes living is such hard work). Work? Work is trying to maintain a topic on an IRC channel, when everyone else is trying desperately to change the subject to something useless. That's wh I hate IRC. >I'm not a prude, and I am 100% in favor of the first amendment as long as it >doesn't hurt anyone and doesn't involve sex with animals or children - but >there is something really wrong with cyber-sex.... you like, miss the entire >point of sex yeh know? (I mean, one might as well go back to one's room >with the assorted magazines or books) Have the fantasy lives of these people >become that dry that they can no longer "function" for themselves (and by >function, i mean, in the imagination). Has our sexuality become that >frightening? Oh well... I'm going to stop while I'm ahead. It's like all of a sudden Americans got the idea sex was evil ( maybe the fundamentalists finally got through) and now everyone just wants to _watch_ instead of do it. Granted, there's no risk of disease or pregnancy when you're alone at a keyboard, but it ain't exactly good for one's mental health, is it? In any case, you notice the majority of these perves online act like obnoxious assholes, which they are, and that's the reason they're online harassing you: they have far less chance of getting a real woman than a digital one. These are the same folks who create the long "Me too!" cascades on the alt.binaries groups. >Truth be told I'm undergoing a little personal stress right now wrt a >relationship issue and I'm a little touchy. But I missed out on the whole >"sexuality 101" theme going a couple weeks ago so I guess I'm not completely >irrelevant. Nothing is irrelevant on Ecto. Remember we just finished a Dune thread. >What a touchy subject tho don't you think? With this whole new age of Touchy... after our descriptions of personal functions at keyboards, that becomes a pun. >technology - how in some ways we seem to be moving backwards in our >relationships with our fellow humans.... As Gallagher once said: "Before telephones, you had to lie to people to their face." >..... no further discussion is necessary if y'all feel this topic is too >heavy :-) > >"there may not be time for us all to burn in tandem together.." Peter >Hammill > >Amy *sigh* > > (I did just learn how to play "Gepetto" - that Belly song from "Star") From: Aaron Hawkins > >On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, Michael Doyle wrote: > >> A friend of mine told me once that he had rented a cassette of Dune that had >> storyboard like sketches with narration at the very beginning. This was a >> few years after I had seen a videocassette of Dune which of course had none >> of this. > >Ah. This must have been a bootleg copy of a Truly Horrible >American broadcast tv version of the film. How bad? Ask your >friend to check the director's credit; Lynch actually had the >Guild* take his name off the thing. "They hired some other director and he ruined it!" The name Alan Smithee has been used on several embarasing movies over the years. Actually, the theater release has stuff that's not in the TV version, and the TV version is like 40 minutes longer than the theater version. They need to mash the two together and release it as some kind of special edition. It won't make it easier to understand, but it might look better than having rough drawings as the intro... From: kerry white > > Hello, Newbie to e-mail I am I am. >In 1978 I had the habit of audio taping Sat Nite Lv and so recorded on >cassette Kate Live + fell in love. I've been collecting ever since, >including Bootlegs and a red vinyl 45 of Kate live in Japan. > When I was 'getting into' Tori I got tired of people saying,"She's like >Kate". > By my definitions "...is like..." is a NULL SET. And ,"...Is from..." > equals either a direct influence or a parallel direction of growth and >style w/ or w/out influence from a common root. > So: IMHO: Kate is from Kate and Peter G > Tori is not from Kate but is from Laura Nyro > Milla says she is from Kate but you really can't hear it on > first CD > Happy sounds like Kate ( and Annie Lennox a bit ) but is > from Shawn Phillips. Apple uses a Cray vectorcomputer to do designs and simulations, and Seymour Cray uses a Macintosh to do his design and layour work... you start following hierarchy charts like that and you' ll confuse the daylights out of yourself, unless you're compulsive and bored like me. :-) > > KrW > zzkwhite@acc.wuacc.edu > "In order to learn from your mistakes, > make lots of mistakes" > Ancient Chinese bumpersticker If we learn from mistakes, explain Bill Clinton. From: THE OLIVE-LOAF VIGILANTE > >It will be interesting to see what the die-hard Deadheads do with themselves >now... will they get jobs and turn yuppie within the year? Or will they >join forces and form a third American political party? Only time will tell... One word: Elvis. Death of a celebrity doesn't seem to make much of a difference to that celebrity's career anymore, sad but true; fans will find some Jerry Garcia shrine to pilrim toward, much like Graceland. > >Neile compared Heather Nova: > >>Definitely worth checking out. She's along the Tori Amos lines, for lack >>of a more definitive description. > >Actually, a friend of mine compared her to _Touch_-era Sarah McLachlan, and Hmmm... :-) (most FTE alumni know my minority opinion that Touch-era Sarah is a step down from godhood) >I can see that a lot better than a Tori comparison. Nova's voice is some- >times vaguely reminiscent of Sarah's, and her songwriting seems to be at a >similar stage. My friend maintains (and I agree) that it will be interesting >to watch Nova grow as a musician and songwriter, just as it's been fascinating >to watch Sarah... > >>Maybe someone should do an ecto music family tree. Just imagine! > >Didn't Vickie do something like that once? Or am I hallucinating again? It >would be seriously cool, though. :) Such a family tree would be approximately the same size as _all_ Longest Thread Ever articles from USENET strung together into a large square. No single human could track down every act we've mentioned on here... >Aaron crawled out from under his rock to contribute: > >>Comparable to the American broadcast edit of BRAZIL, but that's >>a whole other flame, and one I'm perfectly content to let >>Meredith jump all over... :-) > >Oooh, don't get me STARTED on that... that... aberration! Terry Gilliam >utterly disowned that too, as I recall (and for good reason)... gad. > > >(For those who aren't aware, the American television version of _Brazil_ >not only was edited in such a way as to make it plain that it had been >prepared for an audience of drooling idiots, but had a DIFFERENT ENDING, >one which COMPLETELY NEGATED the point of the entire movie.) Prepared _by_, you m,ean... > >There are few things in this universe that can get me going like the subject >of that butchery, so I'm going to stop now and go have some tea. And thanks >to dear Aaron for bringing it up. ;> Few things... does that include flamewars started by large dim- witted invertebrates? :-) I despise almost _any_ (almost? nix, _all_) "edited for television" job. Return of the Jedi on network TV is an embarassment to all humankind. How can you lengthen a 90 minute movie to 2 1/2 hours and still lose half an hour's wortyh of footage"? Simple:" make the commercial breaks six minutes long and space them, every ten minutes. >:-( But nuff ranting for now. I've probably spewn more than my share of ink... | http://www.columbus.iupui.edu/~jrshepar | IUPU Columbus, Indiana | |John Shepard jrshepar@indyvax.iupui.edu I wanna go to a real school someday! | | Internet is too important to be taken seriously. | Artist, writer, net.loon | | Amiga owner & Sarah McLachlan fan: God help me! |in the making. Finger me &| |"Enrich the soil, no soul no soul" Sarah McLachlan| tell me that you love me.| ------------------------------ From: myoung@valleyoak.herb.berkeley.edu (Maggie Young) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 95 12:14:00 PDT Subject: My condolences to Deadheads - ----- Begin Included Message ----- David Koehler said: I think Vickie has just demonstated the Generation Gap. When Kurt Cobain killed himself with a gun, the gen-X'ers thought he was a tragic, musical genius who had bipolar disorder made worse by illegal drugs, and his suicide was a great loss to the world. Many Baby Boomers thought he was a talentless asshole junkie who did the right thing by blowing his brains out. And they weren't afraid to say so all over the Internet. Now the Boomers lament the loss of a drug culture icon who committed suicide by slowly poisoning his body. Many gen-X'ers see Garcia as a talentless asshole druggie who won't be missed. It all depends on your perspective. I certainly won't miss the GDead one iota. hugs, Dave Koehler - ----- End Included Message ----- And some of us who straddle the rather fuzzy divide between Generation X and thebaby boom (I'm 32), feel that *both* deaths are tragic and regrettable, and I suspect this sentiment is echoed outside our little generational cohort. In any case, I try and respect the grief of others...particularly since some of them are dear friends of mine. Sid Vicious Died For Our Sins blessings, Maggie ------------------------------ From: Gray Abbott Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 15:28:27 +0100 Subject: Re: Bored of the Rings > "Matt Bittner" writes, > > > Wow. I didn't know this was out. I have Lampoon's spin on _Lord of > > the Rings_ (which I won't read until I read _Lord of the Rings_ (am I > > the only one alive that hasn't read it yet?)) > > Read it. You already know most of the major characters through osmosis > (growing up around people who have read/written about it, etc.) and you > will laugh hysterically. It will give you the general structure of the > story, and even make it easier to appreciate the original when you do get > around to it. I agree. _Bored..._ helped me get through _Lord..._. Also, I got inspired by listening to Rings references in Led Zepplin (e.g. "The Battle of Evermore"). Gray Abbott "Everything's real here. Many Sofgry Systems people are surprised." Scientific & Engineering Software Mr. Edwards, The Sword in the Stone ------------------------------ From: Gray Abbott Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 15:28:27 +0100 Subject: Re: Bored of the Rings > "Matt Bittner" writes, > > > Wow. I didn't know this was out. I have Lampoon's spin on _Lord of > > the Rings_ (which I won't read until I read _Lord of the Rings_ (am I > > the only one alive that hasn't read it yet?)) > > Read it. You already know most of the major characters through osmosis > (growing up around people who have read/written about it, etc.) and you > will laugh hysterically. It will give you the general structure of the > story, and even make it easier to appreciate the original when you do get > around to it. I agree. _Bored..._ helped me get through _Lord..._. Also, I got inspired by listening to Rings references in Led Zepplin (e.g. "The Battle of Evermore"). Gray Abbott "Everything's real here. Many Sofgry Systems people are surprised." Scientific & Engineering Software Mr. Edwards, The Sword in the Stone ------------------------------ From: kcd@bull.cray.com (Kevin Dekan {x66440 CF/DEV}) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 95 15:06:42 CDT Subject: Re: My condolences to Deadheads On Thu, 10 Aug 1995 10:33:42 -0700 (PDT) David Koehler wrote: > I think Vickie has just demonstated the Generation Gap. > When Kurt Cobain killed himself with a gun, the gen-X'ers > thought he was a tragic, musical genius who had bipolar disorder made > worse by illegal drugs, and his suicide was a great loss to the world. > Many Baby Boomers thought he was a talentless asshole junkie who did > the right thing by blowing his brains out. And they weren't afraid to > say so all over the Internet. > Now the Boomers lament the loss of a drug culture icon who committed > suicide by slowly poisoning his body. Many gen-X'ers see Garcia as > a talentless asshole druggie who won't be missed. > It all depends on your perspective. Unfortunately this is all too true. But I just don't get it. Just what the hell is it with some people? I remember reading all the crap people were spouting about Kurt Cobain when he decided to end his life. And I'm like "What?" Don't these people have any sense of compassion at all? To be sure, drug use and it's consequences are not issues to be taken lightly. And what if you didn't like the music he/they did? Did that make them any less human? But some of the messages bouncing around the net when Cobain died where just plain hideous. And for what? Like Vickie said, it's just plain wrong to kick people when they're down. And I just can't imagine anyone having a bad word to say about Jerry Garcia. Sheesh. It sure is a rotten world sometimes. Kevin (in a mild fit of despair) ------------------------------ From: elionwyr@onix.com Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 17:26:12 +0500 Subject: To: ecto@ns2.Rutgers.EDU Re: Joan Osborne's indie releases I know there's two of them, and I've heard one (which is a live concert recording..yum!), but I also hear that both..damn, I never know if I should say "records," "tapes," or "CD's"...both of whatever they are!.. are out of print. (Curses!) ------------------------------ From: SBI!200HUBBARD!AMYD@lmbinc.attmail.com Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 15:58:00 +0000 Subject: fire extinguisher girl Okay... okay...... I'm sorry I threw those flames. I should have clarified myself. I meant no disrespect for the late Mr. Garcia. I felt intense grief when the world lost Frank Zappa, Freddie Mercury, John Lennon, and Stevie Ray Vaughn (just to name a few). I created this "idea" in my head after reading Sandman and discovering the character "Death". I pictured Death as a cab driver, driving a shiny yellow cab, stopping by to pick up the daily invites - to the party at the end of the road - and what a party it must be! I'm going to make an attempt to explain just where I was coming from - and by no means take these as flames directed towards anyone....It's more like the "worried friend" talking here... My problem is with the culture surrounding the band - the "Deadheads". Not all of them are heavy drug using, unemployed street people, etc. Most of them hold day jobs, have normal lives, families, etc. However, it just fries me that this day and age, when we know so much about how to prevent all sorts of medical problems by living a sensible life - that people still choose to burn out as they do. My best friend is a recovering alcoholic and cocaine addict. We talked about Jerry's death, and she took it as a gift from God to maintain her sobriety. She was having memories of the many nights she drove home drunk, waking up just before she hit the guard rail. Having memories of staying up for days on a coke binge. Jeez she's only 26 years old! Now she takes about 4 different medications just to regulate her brain so she doesn't kill herself or her husband due to severe depression. She still chooses sobriety, she still chooses recovery. They have this saying in her AA group about young people entering the program, something to the effect that they are spared the "last 15 or so years of hell" I guess that must mean that being an active alcoholic - or heavy drug user for that point - will almost surely kill you - and quickly. I know other people who are baking their brains away by being daily pot smokers. They say "it doesn't affect me". Bullpucky! Daily drinking can effect you if you do it long enough. These individuals spend weekends at a time completely baked out of their brains - and barely remember what their names our by Sunday night. There is much to be said about moderation in all areas of one's life - from diet and lifestyle choice to recreational drug use. Rock stars DO recover from their habits and go on to lead successful careers - Pete Townshend, Elton John, Keith Richards, Aerosmith, Bonnie Raitt, Clapton - it's called free will. Maybe I'm just angry at Jerry Garcia because he thought he could elude Death by carrying on as he did. (The time to clean up would have been 10 years ago - easy does it, yeh know?) Just as I get angry at various relatives of mine who continue to smoke cigarettes and eat wrong in spite of their diabetes and high blood pressure. She comes for all of us eventually - there's no point in rushing things. I do feel sad for those of you who are Dead fans. I kind of see the generational thing happening here - he was a bit of an icon for a bygone day. I think I felt this angry and bitter about the demise of Mr. Cobain - that nobody was there to hold his ass down until he made it through the first part of rehab. But that would have been wrong too... I have learned that recovery is something the person WANTS to do - they have to admit they have a problem. I suppose thats the crux of it. How could they not know years ago... didn't the band lose other members to drugs and/or poor lifestyle? (heart attack, etc) Again, I'm sorry everyone - I didn't mean to be so rotten. Amy ------------------------------ From: chris@neuron.uchc.edu (Chris Sampson) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 20:06:08 -0400 Subject: Re: fire extinguisher girl Amy had some further opining, in a less strident mode: As a non-Deadhead, JG-T-shirt, and multiple-JG-tie-wearing, wonk-with-job, I feel compelled to... elucidate? No flames intended, though I will, probably differ, occasionally strongly, with her statements... please see through the jabs if there are any... I tend towards sarcasm, it's nothing personal. >Okay... okay...... I'm sorry I threw those flames. I should have clarified >myself. I meant no disrespect for the late Mr. Garcia. I felt intense >grief when the world lost Frank Zappa, Freddie Mercury, John Lennon, and >Stevie Ray Vaughn (just to name a few). I mourned for these as well (though by the time FM died, I was cynical beyond belief). I actually cried when Lennon was killed (though I'm born in '64, and, therefore not a member of that generation... as though his anger/poetry/philosophy are so restricted by generational boundaries). > I created this "idea" in my head >after reading Sandman and discovering the character "Death". I pictured >Death as a cab driver, driving a shiny yellow cab, stopping by to pick up >the daily invites - to the party at the end of the road - and what a party >it must be! No mention of it in the book, but there may well be a party goin' on, and the band is certainly awesome ("hellacious"?). Give "On a Pale Horse" a read... Piers Anthony has great ideas, which he barely capably conveys with turgid prose and hookey wording... Still, it's the first book in a great epic series! >It's more like the "worried friend" talking here... With all due respect, there's a fine line between the worried friend and the meddling, self-righteous one. What's more, they keep moving the sucker (i.e., the fine line) so it's very easy to cross it without moving. >My problem is with the culture surrounding the band - the "Deadheads". Not >all of them are heavy drug using, unemployed street people, etc. Most of >them hold day jobs, have normal lives, families, etc. Are you sure that "not all of them" are as you've described!? Are "normal lives" to be so cherished!? (Thoreau offered that "the mass of men lead lives of quiet desparation" after all... But he was a "transcendentalist" for G-d's sake... nevermind, I think we can discredit his words, based on that). Obviously, I take exception to this covention-heavy, and (sorry) judgemental stance. I cohabit w/o the "benefit" of marriage... and others I know deviate from the "norm". Where does the blossoming of one's individuality come into play? > However, it just >fries me that this day and age, when we know so much about how to prevent >all sorts of medical problems by living a sensible life - that people still >choose to burn out as they do. The key word is "choose", no? No need to be "fried"; I defend each individual's right to choose the lifestyle of his/her choice... AND, I stand along side you, if the individual comes crying to us, saying, "Whoa is me, how unfair!". Not to be moralistic, seriously. There are choices being made, and it's saddening to see people who don't realize the choices they're making as the make them. Still, (And I believe this with every fiber of my being) The choice is yours; no judgements, but some things are predictable. Add medical conditions (beyond his control) and you're talking some steep probabilities... BTW, scientific speculation at this fine medical institution points to the likelihood that "silent MIs" are common among diabetics, due to peripheral neuropathy (a common result of diabetes). No telling to what extent the "lifestyle" choices affected the outcome... Sure we can guess, but there's no being sure. >I know other people who are baking their brains away by being daily pot >smokers. They say "it doesn't affect me". Bullpucky! Daily drinking can >effect you if you do it long enough. Denial is as integral to the maintenance of the beast as oxygen... it adds elasticity to the soul... too many such patches, however, and the soul breaks anyway. Be careful before indicating the denial in others, least you exhibit your own in the process. You are under no obligation to suffer others' denial, but neither do you have the right to criticize... unless you're perfect, that is. (BTW, I am not judging *you*, here, only your behavior. You may be a very, genuinely, compassionate person, though I disagree (respectfully, but strongly, nonetheless) with your commentary here. > Maybe I'm just angry at >Jerry Garcia because he thought he could elude Death by carrying on as he >did. Objection, you honor! Counsel speculates as to Mr. Garcia's state of mind and his "presumptions". What's more, the defense doubts that the prosecution is genuinely "angry at" Mr. Garcia. Your honor? Wake up your honor... Somebody wake up the judge, please! > (The time to clean up would have been 10 years ago - easy does it, yeh >know?) He did... at least once, and about 10 years ago, at that. Anybody know if it was Heroin again, or if there was a new substance???? Not to be mean, but I hope your friend stays clean, or you'll have a fair amount of cognitive dissonance to deal with and won't be as effectively "there" for her, should she need the support. I sincerely mean it. Being judgemental carries with it psychic risks... no preaching, just my take on life's lessons. >She comes for all of us eventually - there's no point in rushing things. "If I behave as you say, will I live to be 100?" "Well... it'll *seem* like it." Not to be glib, but the choice is each individual's to make: Live a "clean", long (and, arguably, boring) life, or take some risks and have some experiences... Not to tout the perpetual high as "the" experience, mind you, but there's risk in *every*thing... Granted, behaviors are more risky than others, but where do we draw the line? There's a similar point of debate concerning the seatbelt laws in the U.S. Your argument, if taken to its logical conclusion, finishes with "as ye sow, so shall ye reap". >I do feel sad for those of you who are Dead fans. I kind of see the >generational thing happening here - he was a bit of an icon for a bygone >day. Finally, I take immense exception to this. As long as we pidgeonhole (no offense to pidgeons) people, icons, or movements as belonging to this or that generation, (or race, or region of the country/world) we will fail (and miserably, at that) to become unified in spirit whilst maintaining our individuality... (BTW, this is my ideal for the evolution of the species, any joiners when I board the first commercial shuttle bound for the colonization of the nearest planet????). Sometimes I get so mad at this species for fostering fear and loathing between people(s); it's as though they're denying the necessity of oneness! Bad apes! Bad, bad, bad! >I think I felt this angry and bitter about the demise of Mr. Cobain - >that nobody was there to hold his ass down until he made it through the >first part of rehab. How suddenly compassionate. Why the differential treatment, though? On the one hand judgemental, and on the other (pun stifled) ... Idunno, "tough love"? If we equate "self-destructive" behavior with outright suicide, then hadn't we ought to afford the same compassions for each? As far as I can see, Jerry had a support structure (a family, the band). For myself, I mourn the loss of a truly creative, unique musician with substance and philosophy to back his chops. As is evidenced above, the significance of the GD, is greatly misunderstood by those who see only the drugs, the long hair, and the transients-in-tye-dye. Learn about the Dead... There's plenty of love and peace in their music... and, as with any life, their evolution is marked with both successes and failures (see Terrapin Station)... as they developed further and grew. The awe I feel for their existence is like that I hold for the Grand Canyon. Oh, and they played great music... substantive pop that was not inaccessible to the masses... or maybe it was just a box of rain, afterall. (Some appropriate GD lyric omitted, due to the multitude from which to pick.) chris@cortex.uchc.edu (Chris Sampson)|http://www.ucc.uconn.edu/~whusfm "So here are the questions: Is time long or is it wide? And the answers? Sometimes the answers just come in the mail." ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V2 #188 ************************** ======================================================================== Please send any questions or comments about the list to ecto-owner@nsmx.rutgers.edu