From: owner-ecto-digest To: ecto-digest@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto-digest V2 #184 Reply-To: ecto@nsmx.rutgers.edu Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Wednesday, 9 August 1995 Volume 02 : Number 184 The Ecto digest is now being generated automatically. Please send problems and questions to: ecto-owner@nsmx.rutgers.edu. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Matt Bittner" Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 07:58:02 -0500 Subject: Query mode on... While perusing one of the local record shops (do they still call them that?), I noticed a collection of four CD's that were recordings from different "festivals" from around the world. Not getting a good look at the package, I couldn't tell you the title, nor what's in the collection. I just remember that the whole collection was either $23, or $32 (depends on if you're dyslexic or ton;-)). Anybody seen this collection, or know about it? Currently listening to the second Jewel live tape from the TDP, and really enjoying it, especially "SilverLining" (gosh, I wish she would come to these parts!!!), Matt - -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Matthew Bittner WW1 Modeler, ecto subscriber, new dad meba@cso.com Omaha, Nebraska "Not in the face, NOT IN THE FACE" - Arthur, The Tick's sidekick, and his battle cry - -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ ------------------------------ From: jeffy@wam.umd.edu Date: Tue, 08 Aug 95 09:48:15 -0400 Subject: Re: trip acquisitions palindrome man asks: >Ruby Blue - Down From Above -- is this Rebecca Pigeon's old band? >Nowhere are the band members stated as such. More than a bit celtic >sounding but quite zippy. Yes, sort of. Pidgeon was in Ruby Blue, but not on all their albums (possibly only the one). As I recall, that album *was* _Down from Above_ (the one that starts with the cover of "Primitive Man" and ends with "Elegy"?) Jeff ------------------------------ From: "JOHN SHEPARD (CALAMARI)" Date: Tue, 08 Aug 1995 08:53:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Dune I love this list! Any topic is fair game... :-) And it wasn't but a week or so ago that I finished re-reading _God Emperor of Dune_. I'd read and re-read the first three books several times (and the first one is stiill the best) but I must admit the other three aren't really bad, they just aren't in the same vein as the original. The movie, as seemingly with all things Dune, elicits a mixture of love and hate. It sucks, yet it doesn't suck; it's poorly directed in spots, it's got some cheesy effects, some positively _bad_ lines which even the fine cast could not save, and it's not particularly accurate, but it does capture the look and feel (at least IMHO) of the book. You know you're watching a poorly made movie, though, when you have to read the book it's from in order to make sense of the movie. BTW, re: jet black stillsuits, read Crichton's _Jurassic Park_ for a discussion on whether black clothing helps or hinders heat dissipation. Besides, _any_ full-body suit like that would be hotter'n hell. Strange, I'd never even thought of that till now. I'd thought the color was described as blackj (or dark brown) in one of the books. But then, there are several places in the later Dune books where Frank Herbert doesn't know what he's talking about, so black rubber stillsuits probably isn't that far out of line. More later. I'm at work, and the boss is here. :-) | http://www.columbus.iupui.edu/~jrshepar | IUPU Columbus, Indiana | |John Shepard jrshepar@indyvax.iupui.edu I wanna go to a real school someday! | | Internet is too important to be taken seriously. | Artist, writer, net.loon | | Amiga owner & Sarah McLachlan fan: God help me! |in the making. Finger me &| |"Enrich the soil, no soul no soul" Sarah McLachlan| tell me that you love me.| ------------------------------ From: Ingrid Karklins Date: Tue, 8 Aug 95 11:09:17 CDT Subject: the story on the story? (fwd) From Meredith: > >The touring band has not been set yet, but will probably contain most > >if not all of the original members. Except (of course) for Jennifer > >who will be replaced by Ingrid Graudins. (see my concert review below.) > > Anybody know anything about the new singer? It's hard to imagine Jonatha > harmonizing with anyone else, but I'm sure it's possible. :) I dreamt about these folks last night. Have no idea what it was though... But, I can tell you that Ingrid Graudins is Latvian. Her last name means "little grain". Like mine means "little osier".... Ingrid ------------------------------ From: chris@neuron.uchc.edu (Chris Sampson) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 1995 13:46:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Dune >You know you're watching a poorly >made movie, though, when you have to read the book it's from in >order to make sense of the movie. Besides the jet black stillsuits, this is my major complaint about the movie. I saw it as part of large group. All of us who read the book hated the movie. The people who hadn't read it enjoyed the movie, but only because they sat next to those of us who had read the book and could explain what the #(*&$# was going on... I mean, did any of you picture the Guild Navigators as looking like that? >BTW, re: jet black stillsuits, read Crichton's _Jurassic Park_ >for a discussion on whether black clothing helps or hinders heat >dissipation. ...would that be an authoritative discussion? My problem with the stillsuits was not that they were black, per se, but, rather, that you could see them at all. In the book, Herbert goes to a lot of trouble to suggest that they are practicall invisible... or am I imagining things? And another thing! What was with these "weirding modules"? The "weirding way" was a superstitious description of the powers or customs of the off-worlders by the Fremen, particularly of the Bene Geserit Sisterhood, who they regarded with no small amount of caution. Here comes Lynch or some other yokel and makes these handheld devices that are voice-activated and... What's up with that? Body shields were visible, the worm visuals were atrocious.... and *it rained that the end of the movie*! Am I the only person who found this a cheesy way to ruin the whole point of the book!? Sorry, I didn't mean to rant... I'm better now... Well, for good or bad, you know my thoughts on the movie... I'd better go now. chris@cortex.uchc.edu (Chris Sampson)|http://www.ucc.uconn.edu/~whusfm "So here are the questions: Is time long or is it wide? And the answers? Sometimes the answers just come in the mail." ------------------------------ From: Neile Graham Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 11:14:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Ruby Blue > >Ruby Blue - Down From Above -- is this Rebecca Pigeon's old band? > >Nowhere are the band members stated as such. More than a bit celtic > >sounding but quite zippy. > > Yes, sort of. Pidgeon was in Ruby Blue, but not on all their albums > (possibly only the one). As I recall, that album *was* _Down from Above_ > (the one that starts with the cover of "Primitive Man" and ends with > "Elegy"?) In the booklet for my copy of the disc "Primitive Man" it says Words by David Mamet (Rebecca Pidgeon's husband) and Music by Rebecca Pidgeon, so it's not a cover--did someone else cover it? It sounded really familiar to me when I first heard this version. And the last song is "Epitaph", so your memory is pretty good, jeffy. Yes, Rebecca Pidgeon is on this one. In the booklet it lists who plays on each song. The Ruby Blue members for this disc are Rebecca Pidgeon, Roger Fife, Anthony Coote, and Erika Spotswood. It's a pretty good disc. Not earth-shattering but very pleasant. - --Neile neile@u.washington.edu ------------------------------ From: "JOHN SHEPARD (CALAMARI)" Date: Tue, 08 Aug 1995 13:51:23 -0500 Subject: A forwarded message from cinnamon@one.net R. N. Dominick is still having problems making responses to people go to the list, so by request... From a message on 8-AUG-1995 13:50:31 >From: IN%"cinnamon@one.net" "r. n. dominick" 8-AUG-1995 10:00:04.23 >To: IN%"JRSHEPAR@INDYVAX.IUPUI.EDU" >CC: >Subj: RE: Dune > >Return-path: >Received: from mail.one.net by INDYVAX.IUPUI.EDU (PMDF V5.0-3 #5862) > id <01HTTRIVJOO000J3SL@INDYVAX.IUPUI.EDU> for JRSHEPAR@INDYVAX.IUPUI.EDU; Tue, > 08 Aug 1995 09:59:58 -0500 >Received: from shell.one.net (cinnamon@shell.one.net [198.30.92.106]) > by mail.one.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA10772 for > ; Tue, 08 Aug 1995 10:59:55 -0400 >Received: (from cinnamon@localhost) by shell.one.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) > id KAA11191 for JRSHEPAR@INDYVAX.IUPUI.EDU; Tue, 08 Aug 1995 10:59:54 -0400 >Date: Tue, 08 Aug 1995 10:59:53 -0400 (EDT) >From: "r. n. dominick" >Subject: Re: Dune >In-reply-to: <01HTTOTNOOXU00JT2E@INDYVAX.IUPUI.EDU> >To: JRSHEPAR@INDYVAX.IUPUI.EDU >Message-id: <199508081459.KAA11191@shell.one.net> >X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] >Content-type: text >Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > >> BTW, re: jet black stillsuits, read Crichton's _Jurassic Park_ >> for a discussion on whether black clothing helps or hinders heat >> dissipation. Besides, _any_ full-body suit like that would be >> hotter'n hell. Strange, I'd never even thought of that till now. >> I'd thought the color was described as blackj (or dark brown) in >> one of the books. But then, there are several places in the >> later Dune books where Frank Herbert doesn't know what he's >> talking about, so black rubber stillsuits probably isn't that >> far out of line. > >...er...stillsuits are cooled by water circulation. It really wouldn't >matter much what color they were. On one of the original paperback >covers, they were definitely a dark-brown-to-black (I got an original >paperback run from a used bookstore I used to work at). > >-- >http://w3.one.net/~cinnamon/ cinnamon@one.net ------------------------------ From: "Carter, Simon" Date: Tue, 08 Aug 95 13:29:00 PDT Subject: Re: Dune I've been enjoying ecto for a while now, and felt it was high time I made a contribution... >The movie, as seemingly with all things Dune, elicits a >mixture of love and hate. It sucks, yet it doesn't suck; it's poorly >directed in spots, it's got some cheesy effects, some positively >_bad_ lines which even the fine cast could not save, and it's >not particularly accurate, but it does capture the look and feel >(at least IMHO) of the book. You know you're watching a poorly >made movie, though, when you have to read the book it's from in >order to make sense of the movie. The film was directed by, and the screenplay written by, David Lynch, a true genius and wierdo of our time (anyone seen his bee art?). The budget on it was noted at the time for being very large. After the success of The Elephant Man and, I think, Wild At Heart, Lynch was given the choice of doing Return of the Jedi (now THAT would have been interesting to see...) or Dune. He chose Dune because he thought it more his thing. In any case, the film ended up being something silly like 6 hours long. It was editted to hell, the main method of covering for the important missing sections being those oh-so-brief explanatory voice-overs. The original 6 hour film was, allegedly, going to be released on laser-disc, but never materialised (much like the original three and three-quarter version of Twin-Peaks - Fire Walk with Me). Because of this, whilst Dune was stylistically spot-on, it was made a rather chaotic hotch-potch by such extreme editting. I would love to see the original version... I hope all that is correct, I'm sure I'll be told if it isn't. On to more ecto-related fare. Does anyone know where you can buy Happy's CD's in England? I managed to find two in HMV London, carefully secreted under 'H', but apart from that I have had no luck at all... Simon Carter "Oh God, I could be bound in a nutshell, and count myself the king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams." Hamlet ------------------------------ From: elionwyr@onix.com Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 17:54:56 +0500 Subject: schtuff (I had sent out an admittedly way-too-long post to Ecto this weekend that hasn't appeared in any digest, so some of this is a repeat of what I posted then..) Re: Sarah on "Good Morning America" I did get the piano-intro and her singing "Possession" on audio tape, if anyone's interested in it. Re: "Ambient 1" Never fear, Jeff - you're not the only one to have it! I got it last Friday or so, and have become very quickly fond of it...and no, I can't get the CD player to "see" track 42, either. I showed it to a fellow Happy fan (actually, the person who got me and my mom hooked on her in the first place), who VERY much liked the music, and tried like all fury to get to track 42, with no luck, either. :( And..I'll post it here (though again, it's a repeat - though I assume at this point that my verrrry lengthy mail met some mysterious death only reserved for the long-winded) October Project's next album is due to be in the stores in September! It's called "Falling Farther In." And the group now has an internet account - O Project@aol.com. ------------------------------ From: maeldun@i-2000.com (Michael Doyle) Date: Tue, 08 Aug 1995 19:27:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Dune Simon wrote: > Because of this, whilst Dune was stylistically spot-on, it was made a >rather chaotic hotch-potch by such extreme editting. I would love to see the >original version... A friend of mine told me once that he had rented a cassette of Dune that had storyboard like sketches with narration at the very beginning. This was a few years after I had seen a videocassette of Dune which of course had none of this. He took the sketches to be scenes that either were never shot or shot and never edited in. Either way, he said, while it didn't make the movie better, it made its departures from the novel more understandable. - - Mike Michael Doyle maeldun@i-2000.com ========================================================================== "You can make a conspiracy out of anything, if you work hard enough at it." - - Michael J. Arbouet ------------------------------ From: jeffy@wam.umd.edu Date: Tue, 08 Aug 95 19:39:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Ruby Blue neile gently corrects me: >> Yes, sort of. Pidgeon was in Ruby Blue, but not on all their albums >> (possibly only the one). As I recall, that album *was* _Down from Above_ >> (the one that starts with the cover of "Primitive Man" and ends with >> "Elegy"?) > >In the booklet for my copy of the disc "Primitive Man" it says Words by >David Mamet (Rebecca Pidgeon's husband) and Music by Rebecca Pidgeon, so >it's not a cover--did someone else cover it? It sounded really familiar >to me when I first heard this version. And the last song is "Epitaph", so >your memory is pretty good, jeffy. Actually, that's a sign that my memory is getting lousy. Just ask Mike Matthews or Cathy Guetzlaf. At least I: (a) knew the first song (I definitely remember hearing of it being a cover, so perhaps somebody else has recorded it, either before or after the RB version...witness Bruce Hornsby's "Jacob's Ladder," which appeared on his second album, a year or two after Huey Lewis recorded and released it, I think on the second album he did with the News) b) had the right concept for the last track, even if I used the wrong terminology... in fact, I would argue (and could probably win... ;-) that "elegy" is the grammatical description of the track and that the author(s) chose the wrong name. In any event, the only reason I made that mistake was 'coz Mike has had my copy of the tape since mid-june and the one time I've seen him since then he forgot to give it to me and I forgot to ask after it. >It's a pretty good disc. Not earth-shattering but very pleasant. Perhaps not an earth-shattering disc, but it's got some pretty phenomenal songs (I adore "Epitaph," as well as the track (not sure of the title) about Blue-Stocking Blue (a girl of high reknown!) and a few others). I also prefer the album over Pidgeon's _The Raven_. Jeff ------------------------------ From: David Dalton Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 16:53:55 UTC-0700 Subject: Dar Williams My friend Ariane, who has very good musical tastes, and who I am trying to get to join ecto, e-mailed me with this bit of advice that I don't think she would mind me sharing: A> "So, about Dar... I'll let you A> borrow it soon if you want, but can't tear myself away quite yet. I would, A> however, HIGHLY recommend that you just go out and buy it for yourself. They A> have it at Black Swan. It is EASILY the BEST album I have EVER heard!!! I A> can't tell you how much I LOVE her. She is absolutely BRILLIANT! I have A> always been a lyrics person and like, say, the Indigo Girls for that reason, A> but there is not even a comparison there. She is just incredible. And not in A> terms of trying to be very profound or anything. She just is...profound and A> witty and incredibly ORIGINAL! Anyway, you get the picture that I'm highly A> recommending this album. So does anyone else on here like her too, or have concert or CD reviews to share? I will try to get Ariane to write a longer one for ecto, since she likes it so much. Also I think DW has a list of her own. - -- - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- David Dalton - earth science student, music buff --- --- ------------------------------ From: "Joseph Zitt" Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 19:39:29 +0000 Subject: Re: Dune On 8 Aug 95 at 13:46, Chris Sampson wrote: > Besides the jet black stillsuits, this is my major complaint about > the movie. I saw it as part of large group. All of us who read the book > hated the movie. The people who hadn't read it enjoyed the movie, but only > because they sat next to those of us who had read the book and could explain > what the #(*&$# was going on... I mean, did any of you picture the Guild > Navigators as looking like that? Well, not all -- I preferred the movie to the book. The book struck me as a hodgepodge -- not to mention that anyone who knew a little Hebrew would have no problem knowing what the ostensibly mysterious term "kwisatz haderach" meant... other than wondering why the term was in Hebrew to start with. On the other hand, I may have been the wrong age for it, as I thought the name Urilan was grossly funny at the time (about 10 years old). OTOH, I recall that my favorite of the series was "God Emperor of Dune"/ But then, I haven't gotten around to reading "Heretics of Dune," "Chapterhouse: Dune", "Beach Blanket Dune", "Gidget Goes Dune", or "Dune Meets Godzilla", though I have read Harvard (?) Lampoon's hilarious "Doon". (Ah, so *this* is what a full day of work does to the mind... I think I'll bask in some teenage nostalgia and watch the Nixon resignation special on TV tonight...) ------------------------------ From: "Carter, Simon" Date: Tue, 08 Aug 95 17:49:00 PDT Subject: Re: Dune > And another thing! What was with these "weirding modules"? The >"weirding way" was a superstitious description of the powers or customs of >the off-worlders by the Fremen, particularly of the Bene Geserit Sisterhood, >who they regarded with no small amount of caution. Here comes Lynch or some >other yokel and makes these handheld devices that are voice-activated and... I do believe that the weirding modules came into one of the later books. I could be wrong, though, I read them a long time ago and might be getting confused with the film... >What's up with that? Body shields were visible, the worm visuals were >atrocious.... and *it rained that the end of the movie*! Am I the only >person who found this a cheesy way to ruin the whole point of the book!? >Sorry, I didn't mean to rant... I'm better now... Well, for good or bad, you >know my thoughts on the movie... I'd better go now. Also in one of the later books Arrakis become a lush and fertile planet, with a tropical climate. The worms are forced to live in certain, restricted areas. Indeed, I think they are even in danger of extinction because of this. Basically, I think Lynch and co incorporated some of the elements of the later books into the film. This perhaps wasn't such a great idea, considering they had such problems packing the original bits into less than 6 hours... Oh well, work calls. Simon "There is nothing good nor bad, but thinking makes it so" Hamlet ------------------------------ From: Neal Copperman Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 22:25:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Dar Williams On Tue, 8 Aug 1995, David Dalton wrote: > > So does anyone else on here like her too, or have concert or > CD reviews to share? I hope to have a concert review for you on Friday, as Dar is playing at the Birchmere then :) Anyone in the area want to go? I even pushed back my trip to San Jose one day for the show, a pretty bold move considering I've never heard a single note of hers. Neal ------------------------------ From: Neile Graham Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 19:44:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Ruby Blue Meredith asks: > Rebecca Pidgeon is married to David Mamet??????? *The* David Mamet? Yep. Someone on ecto mentioned it when there first was discussion of _The Raven_, but evidence of a connection between them is all over the discs. He writes a lot for her and for the Ruby Blue album I have. And jeffy, I had another listen to the disc today, and it's better than I remember it being. I also have a theory, based on a couple of her songs, that Rebecca Pidgeon is from Scotland, which endears her to me even further. - --Neile neile@u.washington.edu ------------------------------ From: Neile Graham Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 21:57:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Ectophiles Guide to Good Music -- A List Hi, all-- Just a note to let you know that we are gearing up for the Ectophiles Guide to Good Music. I've been gathering all the "A" artists from all my files. Here's what we have: Brief Comments no discography info, etc.: Abdul, Paula Aguklark, Susan (I still don't have the spelling right!) Aktrisa, Vesna Arvanitaki, Elftheria American Music Club Anglagard Animaniacs Aquarium Ashley, Robert Astley, John Part Entry--need fuller discography info: Adam Ant Allen, Daevid Altered Images Armatrading, Joan Full entries--may need info on most recent discs: Adams, Oleta Adult Net Alexiou, Haris Alice All About Eve Altan Altazor Amos, Tori Anderson, Laurie An April March Andreasson, Elisabeth Anhai Animal Logic Annabouboula Anonymous 4 Archer, Tasmin Arden, Jann Area Arson Garden Aweke, Aster No entries: Kerri Anderson Virginia Astly Remember, though, we can always use more opinions on any of these artists--whether you like or don't like them. This is for advice--and it helps to know what other ectophiles think of groups. About 2/3rd of my music collection comes from ectophiles' recommendations! Please send any additions as soon as possible--the editing process will be seriously underway later this week! - --Neile for the Ectophiles Guide neile@u.washington.edu ------------------------------ From: jeffy@wam.umd.edu Date: Wed, 09 Aug 95 01:17:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Ruby Blue >Meredith asks: > >> Rebecca Pidgeon is married to David Mamet??????? *The* David Mamet? meth, where have you *been*?! This was a pretty big thread about the time _The Raven_ was released! >Yep. Someone on ecto mentioned it when there first was discussion of _The >Raven_, Mitch, as I recall. >I also have a theory, based on a couple of her songs, that Rebecca >Pidgeon is from Scotland, which endears her to me even further. I can't check the disc (it's on loan to my brother), but isn't there something in the song about the style shop on _the Raven_ to that effect? (that song, incidentally, is the one on the album which most reminds me of Ruby Blue, though I'm not entirely sure why). Jeff ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V2 #184 ************************** ======================================================================== Please send any questions or comments about the list to ecto-owner@nsmx.rutgers.edu