From: owner-ecto-digest To: ecto-digest@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto-digest V2 #143 Reply-To: ecto@nsmx.rutgers.edu Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Monday, 26 June 1995 Volume 02 : Number 143 The Ecto digest is now being generated automatically. Please send problems and questions to: ecto-owner@nsmx.rutgers.edu. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: THE OLIVE-LOAF VIGILANTE Date: Sun, 25 Jun 1995 17:31:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: correction Hi again, WRT my review of _Tigerlily_, where I said that the only marginally upbeat songs on the album were "San Andreas Fault" and "Carnival", I did, of course, mean "Wonder" and "Carnival". Got my song titles mixed up there. :} Sorry for any inconvenience. :) Meredith meth@delphi.com ------------------------------ From: sra5@psu.edu (Sarah Andrews) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 1995 22:12:27 -0500 Subject: Non-music: palatable Calamari "JOHN SHEPARD (CALAMARI)" Wrote: The first thing I want to say, John, is I've actually been feeling some empathy for you lately, so don't take any of this too negatively. >>>Sure there is. Honesty in today's world will get you in trouble. >>>I can be as tactful as possible, and respectful as possible, and >>>someone will _still_ be pissed. Drop by FTE and watch me in >>>action sometime if you want proof. Better yet, don't. >>> Usually the only time someone on FTE is _still_ pissed is if what you said in the first place was inflammatory, and that was what made it necessary for you to get tactful and respectful. >>> >>>To be honest, I've made the rest of FTE so honest that it's >>>becoming a hostile environment. Meth and Vickie will attest to >>>this, and I think neither of them are pleased to see me here. >>>And I don't really care, because I'm going to make positive >>>contributions to this list whether anyone likes it or not. See, I don't think FTE is hostile at all. I like it there, even with you still there. Because when you write relevant posts with little inflammatory content you're more interesting to read than most people there. The only other hostile person there lately was Hobbes, and he's gone, for better or for worse. I don't think your effect on FTE was so significant that we couldn't get past it, and go on with our list. > >It seems to be part of my net.personality to "announce" >everything. In this case, I was trying to be semi-sarcastic; it >often seems on FTE that even when I'm trying to be on-topic, I >get yelled at, as if they don't want me there, making positive >contributions or not. I've never seen a post that got on your case when you were being on-topic, unless you got something through private mail. I know the pro-choice discussion was on-topic for you, but overboard for other people, and I think that most of the discussion of that should have gone on in private mail. But your apology at the end of it all was genuine, and if other people can't see that that's their problem. That's what sets you apart from people like Hobbes - you know the net isn't one big joke, and you try to understand what people are saying to you. >>when you say "i don't really care" and "whether anyone likes it or not" >>and so on, you are using a confrontational tone (whether you realize it >>or not) that immediately sets other people on the defensive. it is >>not at all difficult to say the things you want without using the types >>of phrases that immediately engage the reader's "fight or flight" instinct. > >As with so much else I say. When I use phrases like that in >mature environments like this, it's to be humorous; people on >FTE, however, know me better (or think they do) and know what an >asshole I can be, and are often guarding for me to say something >potentially confrontational. As such, I often spend days >fighting flames started by something I said which I meant as >completely humorous. Sigh; I suppose FTE is that way because >I've made them that way. But see, if you never said things like "whether anyone likes it or not," there would be no confrontational content in a typical post. That's the kind of thing that sets people on edge in any environment, whether they've seen you "in action" or not. My philosophy, start every post with a clean slate. If you've pissed people off in the past, something like "whether anyone likes it or not" will only remind them of that. I think if you just posted, and never used the word "flame" again in reference to the effects you've had in the past, people might be willing to accept you at face value. (You really seem to like that word, "flame".) >speaking honestly (or so i say... ;), i was somewhat bothered by your >>delurk post, and i read it a couple times to figure out what bothered me >>about it, because i didnt find any of the *content* of the post disturbing >>at all, and i finally realized that there were certain phrases you used >>that "got my dander up," as they say. today, when i read more of these >>things, i decided that i'd point it out to you because it didn't seem to >>me that you are maliciously trying to fuck with people's heads and make >>ecto as hostile as the rest of the net. This is exactly it, for me. You post what you think - you're totally honest, and there's nothing wrong with that. And you might be putting some of those phrases in as a (somewhat justifiable) defense mechanism. But even though it seems like they might "buffer" you in some way against flak, it just makes people more ready to find fault with what you said, rather than consider the positive content of your post. Anyway, I guess this was totally un-music related, which makes it pretty much off-topic, even for Ecto. Sorry about that. I really will try to be good from now on! pax, Sarah ------------------------------ From: das freshmaker! Date: Sun, 25 Jun 1995 23:38:33 -0400 Subject: Re: tsunami tour dates mary m sez: >Maybe woj can enlighten us as to Tsunami and their story. tsunami is the prime project of jenny toomey, indie rawk goddess and guitarist galore, for which she is joined by kristen thompson, andrew webster and john palmer. i'm a bit hazy on the early years of the band, but i seem to recall that she originally fronted geek, wherein the roots of simple machines, a self-made record label to release her work and the output of others in the washington, d.c. area, can be found. tsunami has two albums, _the deep end_ and _the heart's tremelo_, and a number of singles and compilation contributions. there is also a recently-released album compiling the early output of the band, which i have yet to hear, though i am told that it unflinchingly presents the band's flaws and features which interests me greatly. _the deep end_ is a fairly boring album, i'm afraid to say. it's very typical of the do-it-yerself indie rock mentality, and in that context, exemplifies that ethic. however, it's not terribly interesting from a musical point of view. on the other hand, _the heart's tremelo_ is a stunning, subtle and subversive piece of work. this album is one of my favorites from last year. the blandness of _the deep end is gone, replaced with intricate, involving musicianship and meaty lyrics. i'm really at a loss for words when describing this album - it's that good. jenny toomey has also been involved in a number of other bands. the most notable, perhaps, is grenadine, whose album _goya_ is a collection of indie-rockized lounge tunes. i'm kinda fond of that album, though i don't pull it out often. the latest is liquorish, which i haven't heard yet (and whom i passed up saturday to see r.e.m.). for more info, the best place to look is probably the indie-music digest (e-mail sean murphy if you'd like to subscribe), which has archive somewhere...ummm. i'll find it eventually. i *think* they are on the electronic newsstand...or maybe the zine archives on quartz.rutgers.edu. don keller has written a lengthy discussion of tsunami which is up on the web: http://www.interport.net/~dgk/tsun1.html. don shares my love for _the heart's tremelo_, though i think his appreciation of _the deep end_ is somewhat misguided (of course, he didn't wait 2/3 of a year for the record to be available after they started taking orders for it!). woj "and you know it: coffee isn't food though you try and tell yourself you'll never sleep, you always do in the morning, there'll be mail to do" - "kidding on the square" - tsunami ------------------------------ From: das freshmaker! Date: Mon, 26 Jun 1995 00:01:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Blah blah NyxNshade@aol.com sez: >I finally picked up Jewel, which I wasn't terribly impressed with at first. i range from enthralled to neutral on jewel. some of her songs are really excellent, while others leave me shrugging. i think i've listened to her album twice, so my feelings are based entirely on seeing her live a couple times. she's a lot of fun for the between-song banter though. >I also picked up Aimee Mann's album, "Whatever". I guess she's not really >ecto-fare, too mainstream, but it's a mindblowingly incredible album anyway. i agree entirely, though i must take you to task for saying "she's not really ecto-fare, too mainstream". i've ranted about this occasionally before, so please don't feel that i'm singling you out. i guess i'm bothered by the implication that ectophilic music is a certain kind of music. about the only thing i can say about ectophilic music is that it's generally produced by women (though not always). i hesitate from saying that ectophilic music is music ectophiles like since, for example, i'd hazard a guess that most of you might not enjoy merzbow as i do. however, popularity, mainstream-ness, a rocky edge, etc. do not disqualify someone from being ectofodder. >CD's I should have gotten by now, but haven't: >Lisa Cerbone - I keep hearing about how wonderful she is, but... I can't find >a single album of hers! It's very discouraging. Any idea where I might find >something by her (in NYC)? since ichiban just re-released lisa's album, it shouldn't be too hard to find in decent record stores. however, you might want to contact eric jensen, , to see if there are copies of the original independant release still around. he would know: he helped produce it! as for its wonderfulness, i'll just note that while i like the album well-enough, it doesn't wow me. i'm pretty neutral on the album, though i've listened to it many times. it's pleasant enough when playing, but doesn't infiltrate the brain. woj (needing sleep...but catching up on ecto instead!) ------------------------------ From: das freshmaker! Date: Mon, 26 Jun 1995 00:17:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Mary's Danish & Throwing Muses Stuart Myerburg sez: >Neile said: >> As for Throwing Muses, well I'll probably leave something out, but here's >> what I can think of without the albums in front of me: >> An EP I can't can't remember the name of and we don't have it >_Chains Changed_? correct. alas, _chains changed_ has yet to be released on disc. i have a poor dub of the vinyl which i really should replace someday. >> My favourite Throwing Muses is now _University_; it used to be _Hunkpapa_. >My favorite is now _University_ as well. In fact, thus far, it's my >favorite album of the year. My favorite Muses used to be _The Real Ramona_. unlike you two, _university_ hasn't unseated my favorite: their first album. it's so powerful, so wild...nothing they've done since has approached that album for sheer intensity. _chains changed_ is in the same vein though. woj ------------------------------ From: jeffw@triple-i.com (Jeff Wasilko) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 1995 22:19:15 -0600 Subject: Julia Fordham? I picked up Porcelain on a hunch (based on hearing her name here) from a discount bin, and I wasn't let down... Are her other CDs similar to Porcelain? Does anyone have any info on her? - -j - -- Jeff Wasilko, Systems Rep., Information International Inc. +1 617 937 9400 (jeffw@triple-i.com, jeffw@camex.com) |"I'll be youah race-car drivah..." -- Jewel | [smoe] |"Pahrk youah race-cah in Havahad Yahd?" -- Anja | ------------------------------ From: das freshmaker! Date: Mon, 26 Jun 1995 00:26:57 -0400 Subject: belly mojzes@monet.vill.edu (brni) sez: >>From: SBI!200HUBBARD!AMYD@lmbinc.attmail.com >yeah, this is a pretty long address.... heh. you should see one the x.400 version of my e-ddress at work. i'd tell it to you, but i can't remember it all! fortunately, there's a much shorter alternative. >i *loved* belly when i first heard them. i ran out and bought the disk. >i played it non-stop for a few weeks. then i put it away. i've pulled it >out a couple times, but never got all the way thru it again. it just became >dull and inane. i havent heard the newer album yet, so i don't know if >it suffers from the same mysterious problem. heh! sounds familiar. i played that disc to death when it was released, but hardly ever listen to it now. when i do, however, i always make it though. it's still great, but it doesn't hold the same interest anymore. why? i dunno. _king_ is a bit of a different album from _star_. where the first album is a perfect pop album, the second is more rock. i like _king_ better, but, already, it seems to be making the jump into the rarely-listen-to category. i'm not sure if that is simply a result of the glut of music i have to listen to or if it is for the same inexplicable reason as _star_. time will tell. woj ------------------------------ From: das freshmaker! Date: Mon, 26 Jun 1995 00:42:52 -0400 Subject: Re: sTuff and tigerlily spoilers THE OLIVE-LOAF VIGILANTE sez: >woj and I did something really silly last night -- we went to see R.E.M. at >Madison Square Garden. this was the first and, probably, only time i've seen r.e.m. live (i'll spare you all the sad tale about missing them in 1986). i've followed them since "radio free europe" was released to some small radio airplay back in 1983, so it was somewhat weird sharing my first time seeing them with 20,000 other people. nonetheless, it was good to see them at long last. >Luscious Jackson opened, [...] Their last >song, ELO's "Illegal Woman" with Michael Stipe singing was almost worth >the price of admission in itself, I'll give you that. :) that's "evil woman". michael was introduced as "special guest jeff lynne". >But our tape of House Of Blues came out!!! Wow. Sarah and The Chieftains. >I can't *wait* to see them the weekend of July 14th now!!! (Hey woj, wanna >try to get tix for Jones Beach too? ) you wanna pay for my ticket? ;) i have to agree with meth and calamari on this one, folks: sarah's getting better and better. her bits on house of blues, especially the traditional irish tune which i have forgotten the name of, were stunningly beautiful. >We got together with a friend for dinner before the show last night, and >on the way we stopped at Tower with every intention of buying nothing, we chose tower records as a good place to meet up before dinner. i was a good boy (tm) and gave meredith my wallet before going inside. however, we were foolish to think that we could stop at tower, regardless of intentions, without buying something. ;) >And Pamela Means, an >interesting girl-mit-guitar who has been a perfect opener for Ani DiFranco >in the past will be at the Buttonwood Tree's temporary space in Middletown, >CT this Thursday. pamela means is a nifty guitarist and a nifty singer too. she's one of those solo acoustics that don't get the official woj frown of boredom. she has a three song cassette out so far, only available when she plays out. if you get a chance, check her out. if you don't like her, i'll refund the cover charge. ;) woj ------------------------------ From: jeffw@triple-i.com (Jeff Wasilko) Date: Sun, 25 Jun 1995 23:09:56 -0600 Subject: TV alert (in general): SoundFX on FX The hotel I'm currently camping out at has FX (Fox's spin-off cable network). I've caught their music show, SoundFX a few times and it's certainly worth watching if you get FX (i don't get it at home in Boston). On a recent show, they had Belly on. They played 2 songs live, and sat around and talked. Also, they had a segment on bands without guitars, and showed a clip of Suddenly, Tammy! playing live, along with Morphine and Joe Jackson. - -j ------------------------------ From: "Joseph Zitt" Date: Mon, 26 Jun 1995 02:01:53 +0000 Subject: Re: roadtrip/heart & soul/gunn/yes/throwing muses/squid mojzes@monet.vill.edu (brni) writes: > >about 10 years ago in NYC. (The other guitarist was a guy named Trey > >Gunn who, at the time, played *exactly* like Robert Fripp. No > >surprise that he's in King Crimson now B-]) > > > he must have taken some of fripp's guitar classes... Yup, he was one of the original Crafties. How the mighty have risen! > john cage's "rolywholyover: a circus" is at the philadelphia museum > of art until july 22 or something like that, if'n you can get back to > this area by then...i'm planning on going this weekend. I wish I could get there *sigh*. I was in New Jersey when it was in Houston, in Austin when it was in New York, and am now in Dallas when it's in Philadelphia *slam*slam*slam* They have a *wonderful* Web site there -- I don;t have the URL off hand, but there's a pointer to it on the Web page for the John Cage mailing list that I run . - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Organizer, SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \|| |/ Online Representative, Austin International Poetry Festival \| / Joe Zitt's Home Page\ ------------------------------ From: bd799@scn.org (Marisa Wood) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 1995 00:06:35 -0700 Subject: Re: Julia Fordham? > >I picked up Porcelain on a hunch (based on hearing her name here) from a >discount bin, and I wasn't let down... YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!! *the former listmeister of falling-forward bounces :) >Are her other CDs similar to Porcelain? Does anyone have any info on her? Julia tends to go off on tangents with each album. "What? This doesn't sound like her last album!" Some of the songs on her most recent album, Falling Forward, have a gospel feel to them. Her first album, which is self-titled, has a jazz-pop sound and some of her best songwriting, IMHO, including the songs "Happy Ever After" and "Comfort of Strangers," which converted me into a raving, screaming JulesFanatic! I'd say either of those albums would be a good next purchase. DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT get Swept, Julia's third album, unless you are an absolutely besotted fan of Jules' and have to have everything she's ever done! It's too poppish for me. For *me*, whose tastes are among the more mainstream on ecto! Swept is overproduced, and it shows Jules' songwriting at its worst. I maintain the Julia Fordham FAQ. If you want to see it, please e-mail me privately (it's LONG!). There is also a JF Web site at http://www.comp.vuw.ac.nz/~ectophil/jules/ Philip Sainty is the Web page maintainer. The Julia Fordham mailing list, falling-forward, is now in the capable hands of Kevin F. Quinn. To subscribe, e-mail maillist@banana.demon.co.uk with the words: SIGNON ff in the SUBJECT: LINE of your message. Anything in the body of the message will be ignored. Marisa Wood ------------------------------ From: awphili@xs4all.nl Date: Mon, 26 Jun 95 11:49:40 Subject: Re: ecto-digest V2 #142 > ecto-digest Sunday, 25 June 1995 Volume 02 : Number 142 > > The Ecto digest is now being generated automatically. Please send > problems and questions to: ecto-owner@nsmx.rutgers.edu. Has anyone else been bothered by reading this for the 142nd time? I would like to believe there are living, breathing human beings writing all this stuff. I would suggest replacing "generated" with "compiled" or "assembled". Albert ------------------------------ From: Christopher Boek Date: Mon, 26 Jun 1995 20:47:03 +1000 (EST) Subject: Re: ecto-digest V2 #142 (fwd) > > > The Ecto digest is now being generated automatically. Please send > > problems and questions to: ecto-owner@nsmx.rutgers.edu. > > Has anyone else been bothered by reading this for the 142nd time? > I would like to believe there are living, breathing human beings > writing all this stuff. > Don't bet on it .... take me! Actually don't take me, I'm a conservative lad, and I might get offended. > I would suggest replacing "generated" with "compiled" or "assembled". > Compiled .... Assembled .... nope ... they don't give me the impression _at all_ that a _program_ has been creating these things .... ;) Chris 'I think the thesis is getting to me' Boek P.S. Sorry, Albert, they're probably very appropriate words, it just struck me as a slightly amusing pun. Yeah, alright. _very_ slightly amusing .... I'll shutup now. - -- | ||| ||| | ||| ||| ||| | ||| ||| Christopher Boek - c.boek@ee.mu.oz.au | ||| ||| | ||| ||| ||| | ||| Dept Elec Eng Univ of Melbourne Australia | | | | | | | | | | Tel:(+613)- 344 7966(BH) 853 4296(AH) |___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|"I've got no room for a quote" CB 1994. ------------------------------ From: "steve (s.l.) fagg" Date: Mon, 26 Jun 1995 14:13:00 +0100 Subject: re:Julia Fordham? In message "Julia Fordham?", 'jeffw@triple-i.com' writes: >I picked up Porcelain on a hunch (based on hearing her name here) from a >discount bin, and I wasn't let down... That's great! I'm a big fan of Jules and I'm tremendously pleased you enjoyed discovering her. You have started with what is arguably her best album, though the latest one "Falling Forward" runs it a close second (IMO). Her first, self titled, album emphasises the jazz side of her style and has some very strong songs on it. I would warn you against buying "Swept" as it is much weaker (IMO) than her other albums and the overdone production fails to conceal a basic lack of inspiration. >Are her other CDs similar to Porcelain? Does anyone have any info on her? Her style has changed a little from album to album, but not drastically so and her voice and songwriting are just as strong on "JF" and "FF" as on "Porcelain" (IMO). Marisa Wood is the keeper of the JF FAQ which is bursting with information about Julia. She can be contacted at: bd799@scn.org There is also a WWW page maintained by Philip Sainty. This has the FAQ, a full discography, and lots of pictures. It can be found at: http://www.comp.vuw.ac.nz/~ectophil/jules/ Hope you find this useful. TTFN Steve. - -- Steve Fagg a.k.a. Nightwol ( 'phone: +44-1279-402437 ) ( s.l.fagg@bnr.co.uk (work) nightwol@dircon.co.uk (home) ) *** We tried to add it all up and got merely sunrise. *** *** Try putting that in a letter to someone in exile. *** ------------------------------ From: Mike Mendelson Date: 26 Jun 95 13:57:55 EDT Subject: illegal my butt |Luscious Jackson opened, and while they had a couple of interesting songs, |they generally did nothing for me at all. I'm sure they're good at what |they do, but that entire brand of music isn't my cup of tea. Their last |song, ELO's "Illegal Woman" with Michael Stipe singing was almost worth |the price of admission in itself, I'll give you that. :) [ROTFL] Um, you do mean "Evil Woman", don't you? (It always sounded like Medieval Woman to me, but alas... 'tisn't) - -mjm ------------------------------ From: mojzes@monet.vill.edu (brni) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 95 14:51:11 EDT Subject: yes hi ho, >=john shephard: >I just love the keyboard melody on Parallels. Check out the >version that's on Yesshows if you like bass playing. there's a keyboard on "parallels"? ;) >I'll give the Tonyman credit though; he knows his own >limitations. Were I keyboard player for Yes, I'd be noodling all >over the place, not particularly aware that I was neither on key >nor on rhythm. At least Tony will sit there and wait out the >really difficult stuff (like chords). > heh...i can just see it...the concert is starting...tony kaye walks up to the keyboard and says to himself: "ok, now *which* one is middle C?" to alter a talking heads song--"this is not my beautiful stage. this is not my beautiful keyboard! how did i get here!??!" >>>Don't feel bad. The meaning of "awaken gentle mass touch" isn't >>>yet clear to me either, although coming from Yes I suppose it >>>doesn't particularly _need_ a clear meaning. >>> >>um...no, the point was that it makes *perfect* sense, and that is >>what scares me... > >So what does it mean? Tell me! :-) > nono, i won't tell you what *i* think that it means, but i'll let you know what my old girlfriend from highschool thought about yes lyrics. cara thought that yes lyrics were all about sex (she felt the same way about the poetry of dylan thomas, too), and this *does* produce some fascinating yet not altogether pleasant images wrt jon anderson... >>incidentally, i just figured out what the one failing of "awaken" is. it >>is completely lacking in bill bruford. sigh. > >:-/ I for one think Bruford and White are _both_ good; I don't >care which I hear. I agree Bruford would have given a different >style to Awaken. > i, on the other hand, think that white is a very good drummer, but that bruford is in an entirely different league as an artist. i wouldn't kick either one out of my band tho... >>anyway, i hope that make sense, and i hope you don't take this as an attack, >>because i'm not trying to do that (i'll save that sort of stuff for letters >>to my new senator, and my new governor, and so on...:) > >or Usenet. :-) > i avoid hostile places if i can. while i enjoy a good and lively debate with intelligent persons, i find usenet to be lacking in all these regards. *************** >no *feeling* behind the notes. kinda like a hollywood set--looks real >nice up front, but thar ain't nothin' to it when ya look close, like.<< > >Ooooh....I don't know....where I come from them's fightin' words. I've >always found Trevor's stuff just as substantive as any Howe (Who?) era stuff. > this reminds me of a conversation i had w/ one of the undergrads here at villanova. he said "i like the new genesis stuff, but it isn't nearly as good as their old stuff, like _abacab_ and _mama_" i didn't know what to say... i think that rabin is far more versatile than howe, but that steve howe has (or at least, had) far more to say with his music than rabin. i saw the anderson bruford wakeman howe show and the yes union show, and i remember steve howe playing identical solos, so it could be that he's experiencing some sort of slump (which can happen when one has to play "the clap" and "mood for a day" every time you do a show for 25 or so years) and rabin has a better voice than howe.... >Oh no...I hope this doesn't start a flame war! > >:) > >plh, >Matt > > well, another post that doens't include happy comes and goes... take care all brni ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V2 #143 ************************** ======================================================================== Please send any questions or comments about the list to ecto-owner@nsmx.rutgers.edu