From: owner-ecto-digest To: ecto-digest@ns2.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto-digest V2 #95 Reply-To: ecto@nsmx.rutgers.edu Errors-To: owner-ecto-digest Precedence: bulk ecto-digest Thursday, 4 May 1995 Volume 02 : Number 095 The Ecto digest is now being generated automatically. Please send problems and questions to: ecto-owner@nsmx.rutgers.edu. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: THE OLIVE-LOAF VIGILANTE Date: Wed, 03 May 1995 22:14:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Hey! Hi! Just popping in from the morass that is my life to bid a huge, slippery, loud HAPPY BIRTHDAY to Tamar Boursalian!!!!! :) :) :) +==========================================================================+ |Meredith Tarr meth@delphi.com| |Boonton, NJ USA finger info at: mtarr@eagle.wesleyan.edu| +==========================================================================+ | "Turnips do not invite fan members to sit on their couches on stage." | | -Irvin F. Lin | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ From: THE OLIVE-LOAF VIGILANTE Date: Wed, 03 May 1995 22:20:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Annie Haslam on Delphi Alert! Hi! It seems that Annie Haslam is scheduled to be a guest in Delphi's conference area this Saturday, May 6 at 10:00 PM EST. Delphi is dialable via SprintNet and Tymnet, and you can also telnet to it from anywhere. If you send a note to info@delphi.com you will get an informational message bounced back to you with everything you need to know to sign up for the free trial month in time to participate in this conference, and also how to cancel once it's over, if you're so inclined. :) Unfortunately I'll be elsewhere at that time -- if anyone does participate, please let us all know what happens! I'm sure there will be a transcript on the service somewhere after it's all over, so if people are interested I can hunt it down and send it out. This has been a public service from one of the Delpholk on ecto. :) +==========================================================================+ |Meredith Tarr meth@delphi.com| |Boonton, NJ USA finger info at: mtarr@eagle.wesleyan.edu| +==========================================================================+ | "Turnips do not invite fan members to sit on their couches on stage." | | -Irvin F. Lin | +==========================================================================+ ------------------------------ From: John Shepard Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 21:27:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Don't overgeneralize :-) On Wed, 3 May 1995, Mitchell A. Pravatiner wrote: > For the benefit and use of those who have been taking John to task for his > negative affect toward particular songs of Happy's: Just because Sen. Dan > Coats (R-Ind.) did his share of flaming at Henry Foster's confirmation I did not know this. > hearing today Does not, in itself, mean that all people from Indiana > should be suspected of being flame-throwers at heart :-). But... we are. :-) Look at who's from Indiana: Mellencamp, who's just plain old got an attitude (and is proud of it, I'll hand him that). Axl Rose (nuff said). Dan Quayle, who doesn't flamethrow, but seems to _get_ flamed at every opportunity. > Welcoming the arrival of springlike weather at last. It is suggested that > the reader look up the lyrics to "The Lusty Month of May" in one of the > digests for the first week of May, 1992. > > Mitch > | John Shepard IUPU Columbus, Indiana | | The opinions expressed above are my own, and some of the facts too | | An Amiga owner and a Sarah McLachlan fan... God help me! | | "going going forgive us Lord we're going going down" -Jane Siberry | ------------------------------ From: John Shepard Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 21:45:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: The meaning of music On Wed, 3 May 1995, Michael Stevens wrote: > Greetings all, > > De-lurking briefly because of a lovely memory triggered by this discussion. > > The estimable Neal Copperman pointed out: > > > look at anything that way, if you open your senses to it. I find it > > amusing to go to the National Gallery, and contemplate the benches or > > garbage cans. You can analyze a construction like that just as surely as you > > can analyze the form of something labeled as art. Analyze the dents and scratches on a garbage can! Hey, you'd be surprised what you find. > Ab-so-lutely! And often with greater reward, because the garbage cans > in some sense reflect the passage of human beings. For the purposes of a story I was half-assed writing, I needed a cryptic-yet-philosophical-sounding motto to accompany a special learning institution, in which humans are trained to think in perfect logic (sorta Vulcan/Mentatish, I know). The mantra I came up with was, "If it exists, you can learn from it," the sort of line that sounds almost as if it was originally written in another language. Well, after some recent soul-searching, I realized the statement is true. More precisely, the level of detail and meaning an entity possesses is directly proportional to the level of attention one gives to it. You could sit and study a blank sheet of paper, closely, under the light, and discover remarkable things: the occasional dark spot from the wood fiber, the actual texture and grain of the surface, etc. Or you could look at a complex sky photo of a city and see nothing. > [snip] > > Undoubtedly this is remnants of > > some sort of adhesive that held the mystery object to the wall. > > Now comes The Story. :) A few years ago, I was in Chicago visiting the > Museum of Art with my then-SO. (I think it's called the M of A, someone > correct me if I'm wrong.) One of the galleries through which exhibits > rotate was in that in-between state, and the only things there were big > white squares raised slightly from the big white walls. No title plates, > no explanatory text, nada. No viewers, either. The guard gave us funny > looks as Emily and I sailed in, arm-in-arm. > > The white squares had screws through them, the heads of which were in > various patterns on the different squares. As an engineer, I'm guessing > they were placed to hit strong places in the walls so the paintings > wouldn't fall, BUT... > > Being young and giddy, I snatched a name out of the air, and began very > seriously discussing this artist's brilliant encapsulation of such > mindsets as isolationism, us-against-them division, and even community- > at-arms'-length, such as was found on the prairie in the 1800's. This would not be possible, were it not for the somewhat unnecessary psychobabble that has attached itself to art in the last century. The idea is to analyze it in one's own mind, not to let someone sell you a blank canvas for $750,000 and tell you it's "minimalist." But that's another debate: commercialism and greed. Right here, the discussion is that we find artistic value in things that aren't intentionally artistic. I for one like looking at old buildings, or at the patterns in crumbling plaster inside old buildings, or crumbling sidewalk squares with tree branches growing under them, or old iron fences, or for that matter, big cities. In other words, artificial constructs that shouldn't be beautiful but are, shouldn't be artistic but are, etc. Where was I going with this? > Emily bought it for about thirty seconds. The *guard* bought the whole > three-minute rant, though. Or the first two minutes, at any rate; shortly > after the spiel ended, she approached us with two elderly ladies in tow > and asked me to explain the exhibit to the three of them. Said she'd been > wondering about it herself... > > Moral: Art and music are in your mind. Everything else is just props. :) I. e. it's our perception of it. The same music/art/whatever can mean different things to different people; can mean different things to the same person depending on the context/medium/mood/time of day/etc. (And yes, I for one think certain music sounds better at night, or at certain hours of the evening when the sky is a certain color, etc.) Back to the homemade tapes: I'll tape the beginning of a song before I realize what the song is, we all know those songs with the cool intros that suddenly turn into something stupid, and then stop it abruptly. Well, I'll often be too lazy to wind it back. Then the next cool song comes on, usually I catch it in the middle (just turned it on, just turned to that station, etc.) and then I end up with sort of a medley of songs on the final tape, bumped together. And after a while, after repeated listens, it sorta merges. I wouldn't go so far as to try to analyze its meaning, but I'll then hear the first song in its entirety, and honestly expect to hear it break into the second song, that is, if I'm really tired. :-) > > Certainly things, both man-made and natural, have their own musical and > > rhythmic nature, and if you are open to them, they are definitely a > > form of music. > > The most spectacular case-in-point I can think of (and a handy way to tie > the discussion back into ecto-territory) is Lou Reed's 1975 album "Metal > Machine Music," which consists of a bunch of gear hooked up in a feedback > loop including a microphone. (He did it as revenge against his record > label, who had said Thou Shalt Make an Album.) From the liner notes: > > No Synthesizers > No Arp > No Instruments? > > ... > > STRICT STEREO SEPARATION > No panning > No phasing > No > I like it! :-) The scary thing is, I'll bet there were people insane enough to review it for magazines! :-) > > > rambling away, > > > > Neal > > Me too. Thanks for listening. Same 'ere. | John Shepard IUPU Columbus, Indiana | | The opinions expressed above are my own, and some of the facts too | | An Amiga owner and a Sarah McLachlan fan... God help me! | | "going going forgive us Lord we're going going down" -Jane Siberry | ------------------------------ From: WretchAwry Date: Wed, 3 May 95 23:09:20 EDT Subject: Jill Sobule & Squonk Opera in Chicago this weekend. De-MUSHing again (though not really by choice) to let Chicago-area folks know about a couple of concerts this weekend. Squonk Opera: This *really* fun and wonderful group will be playing at the Heartland Cafe both Friday and Saturday night, the 5th & 6th. I don't know the cost, but the last time they were here I believe it was 8 or 10 bucks. The last time they were here they also played 2 nights at the Heartland and I went both nights. I highly recommend them if you're looking for an off-beat, slightly psychedelic, bouncy fun good time. The lead singer is a cross between Cyndi Lauper, Nina Hagen, Lene Lovich and Ute Lemper. (Yeah, I know...but she and the band are *so* hard to describe). The Heartland Cafe is on Lunt, about 6-ish blocks from the lake, in Rogers Park just south of Evanston. If the 'el' is your poison, take the Red line and get off at the Morse stop, then walk a block north. (You'll pass right by the No Exit Cafe, which is pretty famous, I guess, in some circles.) Jill Souble (& Yahoo Thirst!) She (and they'll) be at the Dome Room (632 1/2 N. Dearborn Ave.) on Friday night. The concert starts at 8pm, and it's $10.00. The opening band is called Local H and I know nothing about them, but the middle band is Yahoo Thirst, a band I *really* like quite a bit. They opened for Over The Rhine a few months ago and I thought they were wonderful. They'd appeal to those who can appreciate the more "buzzy" (whatever that means) Ectophilic artists/bands, such as Danielle Dax and Psychowelders. Vickie ------------------------------ From: NyxNshade@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 00:02:36 -0400 Subject: Happy, Sarah... Mariah... and more. In a message dated 95-05-03 18:52:08 EDT, John Shepard writes, regarding Happy Rhodes' voice: >After a few listens to get used to it, I would probably recognize her >lower register again; I know I'd recognize her upper register if I >heard it again. That too, is interesting! :) I'd be more likely to recognize her lower range, mainly because Happy's upper range is so Kate-like. I probably wouldn't know which of them it was. When she did the tribute version of Feed The Fire, and snuck in those Kate lyrics, I'd have *sworn* it was actually Kate if I didn't know better. And if you get your hands on Warpaint, she's got a song called "Lay me Down", wherein her voice is *incredibly* like Kate's. >I knew Happy wasn't two people, because this was World Cafe, few >opportunities for overdubs, and so therefore no harmony parts to >confuse >me. I'd imagine on the albums there's probably some harmony with >herself, >but in the studio, there was no such harmony, just the occasional >switch >from low-voice to high-voice and back, startling but not impossible. Yeah, she does a lot of self-harmonizing. One of my favorite Happy songs, The Wretches Gone Awry has an *awful* lot of self harmonizing... it sounds like she dubbed her own voice over itself many times, or something. Sometimes she sounds like a band. Actually, usually she does. >How dare you mention M_____ C____ in an intelligent environment such >as >this! :-) Oops! Sorry! hehehe. >No, really, I always figured if Mariah were given some "real" >songs, she'd be great. She has the voice, she seems to be wasting it >on top-40. I know there are probably Mariah Carey fans here, though, so >I should tread lightly. Eh, to be honest, I've never been horribly impressed with Mariah's voice, if only because it's non-unique. She sounds like just about every smooth voiced singer in the world, just with worse songs than some. But then, I still think KD Lang, Sarah McLachlan, and Paula Cole sound pretty much the same. Differant types of music, but their voices can get *really* similar sometimes. But I love'em all (except KD, I only have one of her albums), so... No offense to Mariah fans; I have all her albums, and she's always got some good stuff on there. >> I feel the same way. :) I have all Happy's albums, and Rhodesongs >(all of >> which set me back by more money than I care to think about for >worry over my >> mental health), but yes, there are some songs I just don't like. >Ode comes to >> mind. But Happy's music goes over such a huge range of differant >sounds and >> types of music that it's *hard* to love everything she does. >Uh oh. I just spouted pointlessly for days on FTE about how my tastes >and >Sarah's tastes in music were not exactly alike, and slowly getting >farther apart, and how depressed I was to think she might eventually >produce songs I don't like at all. But I'll leave it there. I wouldn't worry about Happy's differant sounds, assuming you are. ;> Because of the differant range of things she does, it's also near impossible to *dislike* everything she does. And I probably wouldn't worry much about Sarah's tastes either (admitedly, I have no clue what she listens to)... I've noticed that artists usually don't sound anything like their influences. I always thought if I like one artist, I might like their influences, and if I liked an influence, I'd probably like the artist (not that that sentance makes sense), but it doesn't always work out that way... I am, however, wondering what Sarah will be up to next time around. She, along with Tori Amos, seems to switch styles every so often... I have to wonder where the two of them will respectively be going. Nyx ------------------------------ From: justicek@edge.ercnet.com (Kim Justice) Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 01:08:06 -0500 Subject: re: musical mould, topic entropy (entropicy?) At 9:03 AM 5/3/95, veronica sawyer wrote: >one time i went down to the back bay and, as i came up out of the subway, >i heard this nice trippy kinda-minimal technambient music being played >out into the street... like a more percussive Orb submerred in oceanic >reverb. only once i got close enough (yes i am sooo nearsighted) did i >realize it was a car alarm! from planet 10, apparently. ;) which >explained why it was a little repetitive... but girl oh girl those first >4 bars were so nice. My parents used to make fun of me because I'd bob my head in time with our neighbors' burglar alarm. "Only kid who'll find a beat in an alarm!" That was 15 years ago... Sigh. >but i do think the city has breath, and a heartbeat... they're just much >slower than ours are. more like an elephant's or a tree's or a mountain's, >but still rhythm of life. That's really beautiful. Thanks for that little snippet of poetry. kj - -- justicek@edge.ercnet.com (Kim Justice) "Where there's smoke, there's work." -- Firesign Theatre ------------------------------ From: "Joseph Zitt" Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 21:03:13 +0000 Subject: Re: boy howdy > Gretchen Phillips is in a band called Girls in the Nose. They've > released two albums: the first is self-titled, the second is called > _Origin of the World_. I've also heard rumors of a solo album by > Gretchen, but I haven't seen it anywhere.... I *think* Girls in the Nose has broken up or gone on hiatus or some such. There are recordings around by The Gretchen Phillips Experience. - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Organizer, SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \|| |/ Online Representative, Austin International Poetry Festival \| / Joe Zitt's Home Page\ ------------------------------ From: "Joseph Zitt" Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 21:13:34 +0000 Subject: Re: The meaning of music Was Re: musical mould John Shepard writes: > I think to some extent this could start a whole new thread on "what is > music." Specifically, why is a Spike Jones record music, and a car alarm > (as someone else mentioned on this thread) not normally considered music? My gut feeling on all of this (having had many pleasant evenings listening to traffic on the interstate): Music is not a way of making sounds, but a way of listening to them. ( ...but maybe I'm prejudiced -- I was told that the music I played at a performance on Sunday, which I thought was sorta ambient, sounded like "machine shops in heat".) - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ==== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Organizer, SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List \|| |/ Online Representative, Austin International Poetry Festival \| / Joe Zitt's Home Page\ ------------------------------ From: Robert Lovejoy Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 06:58:18 -0400 Subject: John's rare post and our rare perspective On Tue, 2 May 1995 John Shepard said: >> > John Shepard writes: >> > >> >> I must confess, I did _NOT_ like "Collective Heart." >I wasn't slamming Happy, not by a long shot. I was slamming the song. Hi John, Everyone has their own tastes, to be sure, but to post slightly negative things about an artist on a mailing list devoted to her seems a little bit like asking for turbulence! Anyway, I'm sure most of us can respect individual differences in taste enough to refrain from outright flamage... For me, however, Collective Heart works, And note too, John, that the true subject matter of that song is us, ecto, this very list - we are Happy's collective heart. I urge you to listen again in that context and see if that helps - or at least explains why some of us take exception to your post! Anyway, best wishes to you, please bear with us as we struggle to come to grips with your assesment. Many of us are perplexed that Happy is not more well known. Your point of view may be the more common one, globally speaking. Here in our ecto tower, Happy's a goddess. Out there in the real world of record sales, I wish more folks were into it. If they saw her as we saw her, she'd outsell Janet Jackson! :) I guess that's why I love it here on ecto. Robert Lovejoy ------------------------------ From: Sue Trowbridge Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 09:47:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: musical mould I've got to admit that when I saw the above subject line, I was certain that this was a post from the Sugar list, and was surprised when it was from ecto. ;-) (Bob Mould fronts the band Sugar.) On Wed, 3 May 1995, Kim Justice wrote: > There's an interview with Eno in the current issue of Wired magazine, where > he reports that (as an experiment) he made a short (less than a minute) > tape of city traffic noise. He then listened to it over and over again, and > after some time he began to regard it almost as a piece of music; he'd look > forward to *that* door slam or *this* honking horn. That Eno piece is very intriguing and worth checking out. In it, he cites a statistic that the average CD is only listened to two and a half times. Has anyone heard this before? I found it pretty mind-boggling. I couldn't even begin to count the number of times I've listened to my fave CDs -- well into the hundreds for many of them, I'm sure. Even the ones I'm not so crazy about probably get at least five or 10 plays before I make up my mind, though. - --Sue Trowbridge http://www.access.digex.net/~trow/ ------------------------------ From: "Matt Bittner" Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 08:17:25 +0000 Subject: Question... There is a song playing on the local alternative station called "I Kissed a Girl" by (please forgive my spelling) Jill Sobule. Anybody know anything else about her? It's not too bad. Kind of upbeat. Egads, why do they have to follow it with Stone Temple Pilots? Gag, yack, wheeze...When I think this station is getting better - hearing "I Kissed a Girl" - they smack you in the face with crap (my word) like STP. There's a great quote by Frank Zappa that pertains to this station (please forgive if I misquote): "The American public wouldn't know good music if it came up and bit them on the ass." So true. I sometimes think I'm in the music minority, and some jerk-off who can't spell music controls what gets heard and what doesn't. Just so you know, this station does not have ANY Happy. I called up and requested anything by Happy Rhodes, and all I got was a few seconds of silence, followed by "Who? Sorry, we don't have anything." A large cyber to this radio station. Once again, I have rambled on ecto... Matt Bittner meba@cso.com Omaha, Nebraska ------------------------------ From: Mike Mendelson Date: 04 May 95 11:18:47 EDT Subject: Perfect Irony-Mary Black Review Last night was one of those really bizarre and fortuitous nights that bolsters one's belief in a Divine Being. Over the last few weeks, I have been preparing myself to see Mary Black and the Rankin Family. Not knowing much about either, I was able to borrow a bunch of MB CDs from my internet buddy Carolyn and to purchase a few Rankin CDs in Montreal. I was blase about getting tix in advance both because I hate caving in to slavemaster's service fees and because I doubted strongly that such a show would sell out the Park West in Chicago. After all, neither artists' music receives any airplay here, and how many Irish people could there be? Well, as has become the norm, all my instincts were completely wrong... I called the Park West the morning of the show to discover that the $23 face value tix were sold out. Guess I'll just have to rely on scalpers or people with extra tix... which are usually not too hard to come by, esp. for just 1 person. I arrived at the Park West at about 6:50, 40 minutes before the start, to be greeted by my friendly neighborhood druggee-cum-scalper. "Got any extra tix," he asked. "Oh... you lookin' for tix too." Not an encouraging start. Standing in front of the venue were at least 15 or 20 people with long faces and faraway glances, thoughts lost in distant Irish landscapes... and not a ticket to be had. Well, the weather was pleasant enough so I took my place under the canopy and played the waiting game. The odd ticket-seller would come upon the crowd and their extra would be quickly snatched up. One man was outside and had apparently promised 2 women on the way in to give them an extra ticket or two that he might have. Well, he had one... so they were dicussing which one of them would go. Another lady with curly, bright red hair was chewing the fat with them too... they were all in good spirits but alas the guy only had one ticket. At one point, a well-dressed man emerged from within the theatre and approached the 1st bloke he saw and sold him the ticket for face value! Another guy was waving a ticket in the air and saying, coyly, "A hundred dollars," as he offered it to each of us. Well, I wanted to see the show but that was too much for me. An expensive looking lady took him up on his offer and they waltzed in together, as if they were attending the millionaire's ball. As anyone who has been in this situation knows, after a while and right around when the show time descends, a person in my position starts to feel a little desperate -- and pathetic -- and helpless. I may not be the biggest Mary Black or Rankin fan, but getting into that show had become larger than life -- a veritable holy grail. Now, it was not just a matter of seeing Mary Black or not -- it was a challenge, a dare. How resourceful could I be? I decided that standing outside with all the other searchers gave me no advantage over them -- what I needed was some kind of edge. I went into the lobby. I looked at the bouncer collecting tickets. Could I sneak by him? Could I slide in the locked door on the left that hung open a few seconds every time an employee came out it? Could I somehow connive the woman at the ticket booth to give me someone else's ticket? I thought of the man who had come *out* of the venue with an extra -- could there be others like him inside? I would cut them off at the pass by standing inside. I saw a lady who had been obviously waiting for a friend to show up. She'd been there over a half-hour. If her friend never showed would she sell me her extra ticket? I asked her if she had any extras. "No sir." Very polite. Treated me like a criminal. So the Rankins went on and sang their opening number. It was about 20 to 8. There were still a bunch of people milling around outside, their hope fading quickly. The woman who's friend had one the jocular gentleman's single ticket had already left. The quiet lady with the red hair lingered around with a few others. The tour bus towered over the theatre entrance. The sun began to set. Time to go home? Just then, two girls in their early twenties walked up to the ticket booth -- presumably to claim some will-calls. But then they started discussing -- I barely overheard them but it sounded like they were thinking of selling their tix. "Got any extra tickets?" I queried dubiously. "Yeah... do you have a friend?" Why did they care? I quickly pulled out $30 and thrust it at them. No, no, no money, they said. I was very confused. Then it dawned on me. These girls had comps. Not 2, but **4** complementary tickets. They wanted to give me the unused pair -- but only if I could give away the 2nd to someone else who wanted to get in. And I *could* not charge them any money! So I said, sure, I'd be happy to help them out. :-) I walked outside and tapped the red-head on the shoulder. Need one? I asked. Before she could answer I gave her the ticket. "It's free," I said. She glared at the ticket and then at me and then at the ticket. "Yeah these 2 girls had extra promos." I went inside. It was at least a minute before the red-head figured out the ticket was legit. She shook my hand and thanked me meekly. Kindness of strangers, ay? So now comes the good part. The Park West was packed. But it was (as always) general admission. From past experience I know that there are always empty seats here and there with coats on them or something. I walked around gingerly, trying not to disturb the Rankin performane. And then I saw them... two empty seats, together, right in front of the stage. And I mean front row center. "Are these taken?" "No." So not only did I get in for free, but it was almost as if some higher power got there early and saved seats for me! Needless to say, I said a little prayer as I watched three very short Canadian sisters and their 2 brothers do the harmony thing. And as for Mary Black -- she has a *great* voice and a fine, fine band, and she picks some excellent songs to sing. I watched as her perturbed guitar player broke two strings and complained incessantly about the sound, until before the 1st encore they finally replaced the monitor 6 inches from my face. And they played 3 encores -- 2 or 3 songs each. But in all truth, the wonderful, warm performance was like mere icing on the cake. The incredible good fortune -- virtually rags to riches -- I had experienced in the Park West lobby that night was the real drama. I had beaten the odds... and then some. - -mjm ------------------------------ End of ecto-digest V2 #95 ************************* ======================================================================== Please send any questions or comments about the list to ecto-owner@nsmx.rutgers.edu