Errors-To: ecto-owner@ns1.rutgers.edu Reply-To: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu Sender: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu From: ecto@ns1.rutgers.edu To: ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu Bcc: ecto-digest-outbound@ns1.rutgers.edu Subject: ecto #801 ecto, Number 801 Thursday, 14 October 1993 Today's Topics: *-----------------* disappear fear Truer words were never uuencoded Re: ecto #800 Good questions Attenuated connections Re: And the winner is ... Gabriel's US, and Nature vs. Nurture singing praises Re: When I Was A Boy Re: NonHappy court/musing throws/falafel ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 16:38:44 -0500 From: jim@medinah.atc.ucarb.com Subject: disappear fear disappear fear is one of my favorite band. I suggest seeing them when they come to your area. Cindy, one of the vocalist, is missing on this tour as she waits for her 1st baby, but the band is still definitely cooking. I thought I would post their current tour schedule. Oct 12 Wilmington College Wilmington, OH 13 Drummerz Springfield, OH 14 Cubby Bear Chicago, IL 15 U of WI, Whitewater Whitewater, WI 16 Barrymore Theatre Madison, WI 19 The Hanger Carbondale, IL 20 Wittenberg U Springfield, OH 21 Canal Street Tavern Dayton, OH 24 Nightengale's Ft. Collins, CO 26 Birchmere Alexandria, VA 27 Andy's Chestertown, MD (Sonia only) 28 Dickinson College Carlisle, PA 29 Moravian College Bethlehem, PA 30 8 x 10 Baltimore, MD Nov 2 Trento State College Trenton, NJ 3 Rodeo Bar New York City (Manhattan) 4 U of Conn Storrs, CT 5 Amherst College Amherst, MA 6 Fairfield U Fairfield, CT 12 Hanover College Hanover, IL 13 Valparaiso U Valparaiso, IL 19 Sommerville Theatre Sommerville, MA 28 Planet Nova Fairfax, VA I hope you get the chance to see them. jimfred jim@medinah.atc.ucarb.com ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 15:33:52 CDT From: Gort! Meringa! Subject: Truer words were never uuencoded Steve comments on the most enigmatic posting to these pages in the last week: >MIKEDEPUMPO@delphi.com writes: > > SGVsbG8gdGhlcmUhIEknbSBuZXcgYXJvdW5kIGhlcmUsIHNvLi4uDQoNCk5hbWU6 > > IE1pa2UgRGVQdW1wbw0KQWJvZGU6IExhbmQgb2YgTmVsbXN0IChpbiBNYW5jaGVz > > dGVyLCBDVCkNCkJpcnRoZGF5OiBBIGJsYWNrIGRhdGUgaW4gaGlzdG9yeTogQWJy > > YWhhbSBMaW5jb2xuIGRpZWQsIHRoZSBUaXRhbmljIA0KICAgICAgICAgIHNhbmss > . . . > > ICAgICAgICAgICAgICANCiAgICAgICAgICAgVGhlIFJhbW9uZXMgICAgICAgICAg > > ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICoqKiCzXC+zaWtlICoqKg0KX19fX19fX19fX19f > > X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f > > X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCg0K > >And I thought Mitch's postings were sometimes hard to follow. > >:-) To borrow a catchphrase from my old high school journalism teacher: WELL SAID! Mitch ======================================================================== From: "Greg O'Rear" Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 16:59:26 EST5EDT Subject: Re: ecto #800 Mike Mendelson wrote: > My father was not singing, > "What a friend we have in Jesus/Christ almighty, what a pal," ROTFL! > (or whatever the words were supposed to be;) he was singing, > "She'll be comin' 'round the mountain when she comes ROTFL, tunneling through to the floor below, then ROTFL! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Greg O'Rear E-mail: orear@ise.ufl.edu Industrial and Systems Engineering Department Phone: (904) 392-3389 University of Florida, Gainesville, Florida FAX: (904) 392-3537 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 15:43:30 CDT From: Cyberspazz Subject: Good questions You might be interested in the text of a posting I made today to the Forum for Research on Virtual Culture: Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 11:29:10 CDT Subject: When the parasocial becomes social: Take II >A relevant question: Some lists have derived from professional organizations; >their e-mail lists are interim communities that physically gather in >various places once a year for face-to-face interaction. My question is >whether there are lists other than WORDS-L that have, so to speak, >reversed the process; where the list is basic from which occasional >actual meetings derive. I know of one other similar event. Six or eight >readers/members of CINEMA-L (I think, maybe FILM-L) arranged for a week-end >gathering at a restaurant in the District of Columbia. The Ecto list (ecto-request@ns1.rutgers.edu), in the two-plus years of its ex- istence, has both expanded its thematic domain and made the jump from cyber- to real space. Established to discuss the upstate New York singer-songwriter Happy Rhodes, the daily doings on Ecto now encompass a variety of matters of interest and concern to subscribers. WRT to the specific concerns expressed in Cal's query, Ecto subscribers have often thrown parties for other subscribers living in their areas; these parties are often time-pegged to the visits of list members from out of town. More recently, we've begun a systematic list of members willing to put up travelling listmates in their homes. Of late, subscribers in several European countries have been working to schedule a party for that continent's Ecto community; they've put such events together before. My experiences as an Ecto reader/writer are what first kindled my interest in electronic social systems. For a long time, I believed that Ecto was unusual WRT the extent to which not only our mailing list had evolved into what might be termed an electronic primary group, but the extent to which the members had made the jump from parasocial interaction within cyberspace to social interac- tion face-to-face. The recent discussions in IRVC-L have convinced me that Ecto is nowhere as atypical in this regard as I thought it was. Mitch Pravatiner U15289@uicvm.uic.edu A followup posting to that list put the following question: >ECTO's original core, as I understand it, was an interest in a particular >performer, Dusty Rhodes [sic]. My further question then: What distinguished >ECTO as a group from the dozens of other groups that have as their core >an interest in a particular performer. It seems almost as though a >performer (or group) hasn't really arrived until they have an e-mail >group devoted to discussion of them. Do all (or any) of these performer >derived parasocial groups have similar F2F activities? A good question, to which I confess I don't have a ready answer. Do Gaffa, RDT, and other music lists/groups have the sort of offline interaction (or even the online, non-artist-related interaction) that we do? (I refer, of course, to interaction not derived from overlapping memberships with us.) What say those of us who are heavily into those other lists? Mitch ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 16:35:02 CDT From: U15289@uicvm.bitnet Subject: Attenuated connections In eyeballing the last few days of posts one more time to see if there's anything else I want to respond to, I noticed that Bettie Serveert's album is on the indie Matador label. As fate would have it, this is the same label for which Liz Phair recorded _Exile in Guyville._ The latter being the hot number that it is, might it be worth it for Happy to consider calling her next album of all new material _Exile in Bearsville_? :-) Mitch ---------------- "Happy Rhodes to you, till we meet again." --not Roy Rogers ======================================================================== From: Philip Sainty Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 10:45:42 +1300 Subject: Re: And the winner is ... Neal delights me: > uh-oh, elipsis in the title rather than ending a paragraph! :) > So, the winner of the Heidi Berry poster, who's guess was a miraculous 3 > years, 11 months and 1 day from my birthday (June 17, 1965 if you're taking > notes) was Philip Sainty. Actually Philip, unless the birthday contest was > just too intimidating for most people, you would have won any contest, being > the only person to respond. Send me your address and I'll send you a poster. First of all... Yaaaaaaayyyyy!!!! :-) :-) :-) Secondly, I'm bewildered to learn that I was the only one to try!! (especially as I seem to remember Neal announcing the competition in the title of his post, and not hidden in the body somewhere...) Not that I'm complaining :) just confused... :) > Plus, the Wherehouse at the mall started selling used CD's, making me > suddenly find mall shopping more palatable. Alas, the used-CD market in NZ is pretty much non-existant to the best of my knowledge, and they cost around NZ$30-33 new :( :( Philip .________________________________________. ._______. | __ _ ___ _ __ __ |\________/| | | / / | / \ | \ | | | | / | _ _ | _O_ | | \_ | | | | |__/ |__| | | \_ | / \/ \ | |/ | | / | | | | | | | | | / | \ / | |\ | | \__ \_ | \_/ | | | | |__ \__ | \ / | T W W | |________________________________________| \/ |_______| \ Philip Sainty: psainty@comp.vuw.ac.nz \________/ / `-------------------------------------------------------' "This is where I want to be This is what I need" --KT ======================================================================== From: Tree of Schnopia Subject: Gabriel's US, and Nature vs. Nurture Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 18:30:35 -0400 (EDT) Leaves from the tree: 1.) I like US, but I find myself listening to every album but, usually. I've been deprived of some older Gabriel, and REVISITED sticks in my tape player quite a bit. I'm going to sing "Here Comes The Flood" with a friend accompanying on piano soon...incredible bloody song, n'est-ce pas? Onward. 2.) *Please* don't start someone on REARMAMENT. I love Happy's music dearly, but why not begin with the good stuff? Go with ECTO, or WARPAINT. It's the right thing to do, and the right way to do it. BTW, I've been listening to my two other least favorites, and RHODES II has grown on me considerably. EQUIPOISE is best when played really *loud*, and it's just divine that way. 3.) Does anyone here know which issue of SANDMAN quotes Tori Amos lyrics? Or must I ask the folks on rdt? 4.) Holly, my dear, I fear I must take exception to the idea that singing=talking. Uh-uh. It's not hard to have a fine speaking voice without concentrating on half of the things a singer must keep in mind. An actor or lecturer only needs to learn projection and enunciation. A singer must learn about air space, proper breathing methods (which help speaking but aren't paramount), vowel formation and substitution, falsetto, phrasing, the difference between singing with and singing without amplification, and a whole *slew* of other shit. True, all this training isn't necessary for the average person to be able to "carry a tune", but even that utilizes some vastly different skills. I'm not being nit-picky; I know people with atrociously awful, awful speaking voices and incredibly gorgeous singing voices. We're not talking about two *totally* different things here, but they don't usually go hand in hand, even though skills overlap. My voice teacher has me roll my French "r's" when singing, even though my French professor would swat me repeatedly were I to say "Je pourrrrrrrrra chanter quand j'aurrrrrrrrai finir mes etudes". On nature vs. nurture: I'm sure it's a combination. It always is. In the sciences of the mind (I'm a Cognitive Science major), one gets so bloody sick of hearing "Well, it's a little bit of both" that it's really a cliche'. But let me say one thing quite clearly: being able to carry a tune is (and this should be patently obvious) merely the first step. It's practically unheard of for anyone to become a reasonably adept singer on talent alone...there's a lot to learn. Drewcifer ======================================================================== Subject: Re: Good questions Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 18:34:15 -0400 From: jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu Mitch pravatines: >A good question, to which I confess I don't have a ready answer. Do Gaffa, >RDT, and other music lists/groups have the sort of offline interaction (or >even the online, non-artist-related interaction)that we do? (I refer, of >course, to interaction not derived from overlapping memberships with us.) >What say those of us who are heavily into those other lists? There's actually a fair bit of non-cyber interaction that transpires due to the Internet. Ecto would seem to encourage such interaction more often, but that could easily be due to the relatively small size of the group. I'd also say that Ecto has a much higher ratio of non-Lurkers to other groups, and that Ecto's readers are often located geographically close to others (well, within reason). One reason for this would be the results of Happy getting airplay in a particular area (brni 'n Bob 'n Bob Brown 'n Steven Golden (whatever happened to Steven?) and I think there may have been other ectophiles from the Philly area). rec.kites, in comparison, has a huge readership (I belive the arbitron has claimed 15k) but the core of dedicated posters is probably <50. There aren't many rec.kiters I really want to meet. To date, I've only met a handful of rec.kiters and two of 'em were lurkers who introduced themselves to me (I'm one of the most frequent posters there) out on the Mall (coincidental meetings, then). Occasionally at large kiting events (such as Schevingen and Long Beach) groups will gather but it seems that such things don't gather too many rec.kiters in one place. I think the bigest such group was maybe 8 people and they were all regular posters. We'll see how many people manage to hook up this week at the American Kiteflier's Association annual convention. Love-Hounds inspires annual gatherings for KaTemas and those parties can get rather large and/or boisterous. soc.motss inspires ("sponsors" is completely wrong for an anarchy...;-) a "motss.con" every year which draws an international crowd. Late winter/early spring, groups of motsseurs get together in their cities and put together a "con proposal" with all sorts of activities planned out, as well as potential housing (both commercial and private). The newsgroup then does a many-weeks-long voting process through a volunteer who sets up an account to receive e-mailed votes. I think they've done 6 'em now; SF, Boston, Denver, Portland, and Toronto all come to mind, but I don't think that includes the con from summer of '93. It's also very common for people to host parties/dinners when folks come from out of town. There always seems to be an announcement for a group dinner at Sung Hai, a restaurant in NYC, and all sorts of other things scattered around the country and even the world. But Ecto really takes the cake IMO for it's "ectohostel" concept. Again, I think this ties into the fact that we have such a high ratio of posters here. It's a lively group and a *small* group and it manages to avoid most of the infighting and bickering that occurs in larger groups. I'll add that I've met more Ectophiles than the full collection of other people I've met from *any* bbs/net.communication over the 8+ years I've been modeming. This was accomplished largely due to the Philly concert, where I met a huge number of folks and got faces to attach to names. But I've met other ectophiles too, international ectophiles to boot! And I even met an ectophile by pure happenstance just by wearing my original ecto t-shirt on the Mall one day! Annnnd, in even more of an addition, just think of all the ectophiles' voices we've heard through the H[b/g]P tapes! Ecto is truly an amazing place... Jeff ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 15:36:02 PDT From: "John M. Relph" Subject: Re: Gabriel's US, and Nature vs. Nurture Drewcifer sheds some leaves on the subject: >2.) EQUIPOISE is best when played really *loud*, and it's just >divine that way. Didn't I say something like this ages ago, regarding "Save Our Souls". Oh yes, it was that it needed to be played so loud that the two or three big drumbeats sound like bombs going off. Deafinitely. -- John ======================================================================== From: Philip Sainty Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 11:41:03 +1300 Subject: Re: And the winner is ... I've just realised I didn't explicitly thank Neal for putting his poster up for grabs in the first place, so.... :) ___ _ . . . . _ _ | | |_| |_| |\ | |/ \./ /\ | | |\ | |_ |_| | | | | | | | | \| |\ | \/ |_| | \| |_ | | |_ o yay! actually, while I'm at it... ___ _ . . _ _ ___ _ | | |_| |_| |\ | |/ \./ /\ | | / /\ | | |_> | |\ | |_ \./ | | | | | | | \| |\ | \/ |_| \_ \/ |_| | \ | | \| |_ | o for her TRS poster giveaway earlier on... :-) phew! all ASCIIed out... :) Philip .________________________________________. ._______. | __ _ ___ _ __ __ |\________/| | | / / | / \ | \ | | | | / | _ _ | _O_ | | \_ | | | | |__/ |__| | | \_ | / \/ \ | |/ | | / | | | | | | | | | / | \ / | |\ | | \__ \_ | \_/ | | | | |__ \__ | \ / | T W W | |________________________________________| \/ |_______| \ Philip Sainty: psainty@comp.vuw.ac.nz \________/ / `-------------------------------------------------------' "This is where I want to be This is what I need" --KT ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 19:20:07 -0400 (EDT) From: HOLLY@umbc2.umbc.edu Subject: Re: Gabriel's US, and Nature vs. Nurture > Leaves from the tree: > 1.) I like US, but I find myself listening to every album but, usually. > BTW, I've been listening to my two other least favorites, and RHODES II has grown on me considerably. > 4.) Holly, my dear, I fear I must take exception to the idea that > singing=talking. Uh-uh. Leaves from the Holly tree: :) I *love* "Us." I didn't like it at first, but when I rediscovered it among the tapes cluttering up my house, it scarcely left the player for weeks. I can still listen to it over and over and over and over and not get tired of it. Why do I love "Us?" I don't know. I just do. Rhodes II is delicious; I'm glad it's come to grow on you. Yay! I was playing it at work and three people asked me what it was. Of course there is more to singing than just sustaining talking. I shoulda been more clear; I was just talking about how the anyone can have the ability to make singing-like noises. Love and sloppy smooches, Holly ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 16:25:57 PDT From: Neal R. Copperman Subject: singing praises I don't have that much experience with internet groups. WHen I got my account, I started with gaffa and was in an indigo-girls group. Gaffa seemed too iritable, and both groups were too narrow. I branched to ecto and a disappear-fear group, the latter having almost no activity accept around concert times. Ecto was the only one of those groups that encouraged discussion that did not directly involve the artist in question. In fact, the other groups all discouraged it. I don't know if that is rare in these types of groups or not, but I do know that it makes for much better reading and for people who exist as something more than the really obnoxious Kate fan from ... or the punning Kate fan from ... Many of the most interesting and moving posts have nothing to do with Happy, and would be complained about if they appeared in those other lists. I second Vickie's recommendation of the movie "Household Saints". IT was very funny and pretty touching too. As far as what to buy first, I was in that predicament not very long ago. I bought Rhodes I, Ecto, and HR^5, which I got all at once. I thought Rhodes I and Ecto made a wonderful introduction. I like whichever one I listened to last the best. Neal ======================================================================== Subject: Re: When I Was A Boy Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 16:51:06 PDT From: Eli Brandt > From: WretchAwry > Eli (whose parents were probably 3 Dog night fans, eh?) writes: I'm told it was a factor. I don't know if they were pulling my leg... > :-( I don't get why people don't like this album :-( It's not that I don't like it. If some unknown garage band had put it out, I'd be quite happy with it. But as the product of six years of Peter Gabriel's time... I was hoping for better. His other albums all sound quite different from one another, and some are easily among the best albums ever made (OK, I'm a fan). _Us_ sounds like a muddy, watered-down _So_ to me. Thinking about this made me put on "melting face" and listen to the first two tracks. I admit to having a soft spot for this album (it was the first piece of music I ever bought, I think, and I'd never heard any Gabriel at the time), but there's just no comparison... > Really, honestly, welcome to Ecto! Thanks. :-) > > Bartok, Bach, Gong, Rush > > Try saying this 3 times really fast (my cats were giving me funny looks > which made me convulse into deeper laughter!) I'd like to say I planned this for your amusement, but I really didn't. (I can't say it fast twice, much less three times.) Thanks for the purchasing advice. I'll... do something. Eli ======================================================================== Subject: Re: NonHappy Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 17:00:35 PDT From: Eli Brandt > The new Meryn Cadell album is called "Bombazine" and it is highly jivey. In case you didn't know what this word meant, and didn't get around to looking it up: bombazine is "a twill fabric constructed of a silk warp and worsted filling, often dyed black for mourning wear." I suspect the word just sounded good, though. Eli (The word brought to my mind the phrase "oxydated bombazine". I can't for the life of me remember where that is from, or whether perhaps it just congealed in my brain. Looking it up didn't help much :-) ======================================================================== Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 22:45:39 EDT From: mojzes@monet.rutgers.edu (brni) Subject: court/musing throws/falafel hi there :) emily's been down from rochester, so i haven't had gobs of time to read my mail. i've gotten it down to 107 messages, tho. :) i had to go to court for my car accident today (3.5 hours each way :( ). it worked out well. i got what i needed, which was making sure the truck driver was found guilty, and he got what he needed, which was pleading guilty and begging leniency for the points on his liscense. it would be bad for him to lose his CVO liscense, as he'd be jobless in an unmerciful economy. good for him i'm not the vindictive type... he'll have enough to worry about insurance-wise. >From: David Koehler >Subject: Throwing Muses > >Hello all, > >So fellow Ectophiles, people of impeccable taste :-), what is your favorite >Throwing Muses, and why? > >-- Dave > weeeellll... sometimes i'm in the mood for that real hard-hitting _the real ramona_ sound. its really my favorite of their albums. but then, sometimes i want to hear the more off-beat, quirky sound of _hunkpapa_. its also got more of a sense of humor than _trr_. leslie langston's bass-work is really amazing on this album, too, which is really key for me. its not as "solid" as the guy on _)trr_, but far more intricate and interesting. i think that this is my favorite throwing muses album. my favorite throwing muses album, however, is _house tornado_. it has a certain raw energy, combined with langston's superb playing, that is only hinted at in subsequent albums like _trr_ and _hp_, but shows a level of songwriting maturity that they hadn't quite mastered on their first album. the first album, _throwing muses_ has some of their finest work, but also some pieces that just don't hold together. the last album, _red heaven_ was money better spent elsewhere (alas). > >From: jessica@maurolycus.rutgers.edu (jessica) > >my answer: I sing, predominantly. I play bass a little bit. I play >piano/keyboards better than i play bass but i'm more interested in >improving my bass skills than I am in improving my piano skills. >I really like the way bass sounds and feels. It looks cool too :) :) >But, more than bass or keyboards, I sing. I'm taking voice lessons >right now - it's going pretty well, i can actually hear a difference >in how I sound - i'm learning a lot. some of you have heard me sing >which is a scary thought. some of you have even heard me sing in >*person*, which I'm actually a lot more comfortable with than I am >with what you've heard recorded. > as one of those people who have heard jessica sing (with a sore throat, mind you), i would like to say that she is perhaps the only person i've met that could successfully cover a happy rhodes song. or at least cover it in a relatively faithful way... :) hey, jessica, is there any way to get a tape of the falafel song? :) >Once I get my life a bit more in control, hopefully greg and I can >record some stuff and you can all hear it. (Be patient, I tihnk it's >going to take a pretty long time before I feel better..) *HUG* sigh. i know electronic hugs aren't as good as real live tactile ones, but at least here i can use both virtual arms... brni > > jessica > ======================================================================== The ecto archives are on hardees.rutgers.edu in ~ftp/pub/hr. There is an INDEX file explaining what is where. Feel free to send me things you'd like to have added. -- jessica (jessica@ns1.rutgers.edu)